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Old 06-10-2014, 06:58 AM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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White House shifts blame to Hagel for terrorist swap

Now the White House says Hagel made final call on Bergdahl as criticism of Obama over prisoner swap mounts

*Congress learned on Monday that Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel gave final approval for the prisoner exchange that freed Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl
*Last week, Hagel said the swap was a unanimous decision made by senior officials
*Hagel is expected to defend the prisoner exchange on Wednesday in an appearance before the House Armed Services Committee


By ZOE SZATHMARY
PUBLISHED: 01:05 EST, 10 June 2014 | UPDATED: 01:05 EST, 10 June 2014


FInal approval for the prisoner exchange that freed Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was made by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, members of Congress learned on Monday from administration officials.

'They indicated (it was) Secretary Hagel (who made the final call),' Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA) said after a classified briefing, ABC points out.

'It was the president of the United States that came out (in the Rose Garden) with the Bergdahls and took all the credit and now that there’s been a little pushback he’s moving away from it and it’s Secretary Hagel?'

Last week, Hagel said the swap was a unanimous decision when speaking to the BBC.

'It was the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Director of National Intelligence, Attorney General,' he said.

'It was our judgement based on the information that we had that his life, his health were in peril,' Hagel also told the channel in defense of not giving Congress 30 days' notice of the plan.

'Can you imagine if we would have waited or taken the chance of leaks over a 30-day period?' Hagel said.

Congress was upset to learn on Monday that 80 to 90 people in the Obama administration knew of the exchange - but that no Republicans or Democrats in the House were told.

'It strikes me as unfortunate that they could have 80 to 90 people in the administration aware of what was happening and not be able to trust a single Republican or Democrat in the House or the Senate,' Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR), said, Reuters points out.

''There was a sense of anger that members of Congress didn’t know about this,' Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-MN) said to reporters after the briefing, ABC notes. 'Obviously, if there is secure information — members of Congress knew about the capture of Osama bin Laden — and yet 80 to 90 staff in the White House knew about this.'

Hagel is expected to defend the prisoner exchange on Wednesday in an appearance before the House Armed Services Committee.
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:12 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Who exactly is "The WH"? As far as i've read, i've only seen "Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA)" say it.

As far as i know, and with the evidence provided, the only person who's shifted the blame is Buck McKeon.
Yes, this is what a newspaper source said. Unlike many/most sources these days, this source reveals his identity. He could be lying, but if he was, I think we'd hear every democrat involved in that briefing denying it.
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Can someone show me where the WH "shifted blame to Hagel"?

This is the closest I can find--
'They indicated (it was) Secretary Hagel (who made the final call),' Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA) said after a classified briefing, ABC points out.

One guy saying "they indicated." Who indicated? WTF is "indicated?"
What nonsense.

Try reading before posting. It won't kill you.
Flailing for objections, I see. You really have trouble with the phrase "they indicated"?
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Flailing for objections, I see. You really have trouble with the phrase "they indicated"?
I have trouble with the assertion "White House shifts blame to Hagel for terrorist swap" based on "'They indicated (it was) Secretary Hagel (who made the final call),' Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA) said." Any thoughtful person should have trouble with it.
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:25 PM   #64
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Cochise omitted the link -- again -- yet posted the full article. Infringement.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ap-mounts.html
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:01 PM   #65
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One thing you certainly cannot accuse Obama's administration of is accountability.

I mean it used to be 'The buck stops here'.

Now it's "I just read about this in the newspaper and I'll have to hold a press conference in a week to tell you where the buck stops."
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:03 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
As far as I am concerned the buck on this stops at the Commander in Chief--not Hagel. This is turning out to be unpopular so the finger pointing has begun--even Democrats are picking up that this is unpopular. What a bunch of wimpy opportunists.

Here's some facts about these Taliban who were swapped. How dangerous are they really? I already posted the kind of people who are behind this coordinated strategy of turning this into a scandal. The Taliban were not behind 9/11 and were never the enemy as far as I am concerned. It's part of the mission creep. They offered to turn over Bin Laden provided they had proof. Bush refused it. Now this is not to say they are good people--just that they were not behind 9/11.
Mission creep from the outset of the mission? Who do you think we've been fighting over there for the past decade? Who did we bomb and drive out of power for harboring OBL at the beginning of the war?
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, this is what a newspaper source said. Unlike many/most sources these days, this source reveals his identity. He could be lying, but if he was, I think we'd hear every democrat involved in that briefing denying it.
Im not accusing him of lying, but rather using semantics to manipulate what was actually said to suit his agenda....which appears to be incredibly common with politicians.

If someone had said that the information presented by the Secretary of Defense was the determining factor for the President's decision, that could easily be twisted into "They indicated (it was) Secretary Hagel (who made the final call)".

The keyword here being "indicated", which would leave me to believe that Mr. McKeon here was "interpreting" what was said.
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:51 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Im not accusing him of lying, but rather using semantics to manipulate what was actually said to suit his agenda....which appears to be incredibly common with politicians.

If someone had said that the information presented by the Secretary of Defense was the determining factor for the President's decision, that could easily be twisted into "They indicated (it was) Secretary Hagel (who made the final call)".

The keyword here being "indicated", which would leave me to believe that Mr. McKeon here was "interpreting" what was said.
Have democrats been disputing McKeon's interpretation?
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:44 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Have democrats been disputing McKeon's interpretation?
To be fair, i haven't heard much about it from anyone at all, Dems and republicans alike. It seems to be a non story....which says a lot.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:17 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
To be fair, i haven't heard much about it from anyone at all, Dems and republicans alike. It seems to be a non story....which says a lot.
It doesn't say as much as the lack of democrat denial, when it comes to McKeon's claim.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:22 AM   #71
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It doesn't say as much as the lack of democrat denial, when it comes to McKeon's claim.
I guess that's up to interpretation.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:54 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I guess that's up to interpretation.
Two thoughts:

1. Have you considered peeps may be looking racism where it really doesn't exist? I mean she really does look like chewbacca. It's like saying john elway doesn't look like a horse.

2. Where was the outrage when Janet Reno took on the same nickname? You can make fun of one because she's white but not the other because she's black? Because that's kidna the ****ING DEFINiTION of "racism"!

See where us whites get confused?
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:18 AM   #73
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Two thoughts:

1. Have you considered peeps may be looking racism where it really doesn't exist? I mean she really does look like chewbacca. It's like saying john elway doesn't look like a horse.

2. Where was the outrage when Janet Reno took on the same nickname? You can make fun of one because she's white but not the other because she's black? Because that's kidna the ****ING DEFINiTION of "racism"!

See where us whites get confused?
Wrong thread. I've already addressed all of this but I'll go ahead and do it again anyway.

1. Yes, i do believe that people will look for racism where it doesn't exist at times. The Michelle/Wookie thing is a joke, i get that, however the comparison is being made based on her appearance....which means it's a joke with racist undertones. If you were to make that Joke Otter, i don't believe that alone makes you racist. However, it does perpetuate a stereotype that already exists. It's one more lump of dung on a shit mountain and it gives those people who are looking for racism one more thing to point at.

If you're trying to fight a stereotype then don't engage in it. If you are going to engage in it, then don't blame others when you're helping to perpetuate that stereotype.

2. The Reno/Wookie and Obama/Wookie comparisons aren't the same. Again, If i call a white kid a monkey because he jumps around a lot, and call a black kid a monkey because he has dark skin and big lips, is that the same thing?

Is it fair? **** no it isn't fair. It's always pissed me off that black people can make jokes about white people, but when a white person makes a joke about a black guy the whole world gets turned upside down.

This reminds me of what i use to tell my High School students back when i was T/A. I would get kids who'd tell me, "But Detoxing, i don't wanna join a workforce just be taken advantage of and make rich people richer, or go to college and pay a school thousands of dollars, get in debt and still not have a job" etc.

I explained: You're right the world isn't fair. It sucks. And you may not agree with it. However, if you're going to attain what you want to attain, then you need to learn how to play by the rules of the game and manipulate every situation to your advantage. Play the game of life within its rules and you'll succeed. If you don't, you'll probably end up a loser.

I believe that applies to politics as well. When a republican says something that reinforces a stereotype, who's winning the game at that point? You wanna win the game? Then play within the rules. Don't give the dems more points...more ammo...why would you do that? How does that help you win?
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:40 AM   #74
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Wrong thread. I've already addressed all of this but I'll go ahead and do it again anyway.

1. Yes, i do believe that people will look for racism where it doesn't exist at times. The Michelle/Wookie thing is a joke, i get that, however the comparison is being made based on her appearance....which means it's a joke with racist undertones. If you were to make that Joke Otter, i don't believe that alone makes you racist. However, it does perpetuate a stereotype that already exists. It's one more lump of dung on a shit mountain and it gives those people who are looking for racism one more thing to point at.

If you're trying to fight a stereotype then don't engage in it. If you are going to engage in it, then don't blame others when you're helping to perpetuate that stereotype.

2. The Reno/Wookie and Obama/Wookie comparisons aren't the same. Again, If i call a white kid a monkey because he jumps around a lot, and call a black kid a monkey because he has dark skin and big lips, is that the same thing?

Is it fair? **** no it isn't fair. It's always pissed me off that black people can make jokes about white people, but when a white person makes a joke about a black guy the whole world gets turned upside down.

This reminds me of what i use to tell my High School students back when i was T/A. I would get kids who'd tell me, "But Detoxing, i don't wanna join a workforce just be taken advantage of and make rich people richer, or go to college and pay a school thousands of dollars, get in debt and still not have a job" etc.

I explained: You're right the world isn't fair. It sucks. And you may not agree with it. However, if you're going to attain what you want to attain, then you need to learn how to play by the rules of the game and manipulate every situation to your advantage. Play the game of life within its rules and you'll succeed. If you don't, you'll probably end up a loser.

I believe that applies to politics as well. When a republican says something that reinforces a stereotype, who's winning the game at that point? You wanna win the game? Then play within the rules. Don't give the dems more points...more ammo...why would you do that? How does that help you win?
I'm not a believer of conforming to the lowest common denominator. You want to scream "RACIST" like some little bitch every time I make fun of a politician (I hate pretty much all politicians) then have at it. The boy who cried wolf will eventually set in, and it is.

Just don't come crying when no one answers your scream of racism when it's true because our ears are growing numb.

But thx for the insight. I've always appreciated your view.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:50 AM   #75
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I'm not a believer of conforming to the lowest common denominator. You want to scream "RACIST" like some little bitch every time I make fun of a politician (I hate pretty much all politicians) then have at it. The boy who cried wold will eventually set in, and it is.

Just don't come crying when no one answers your scream of racism when it's true because our ears are growing numb.

But thx for the insight. I've always appreciated your view.
Thanks.

I just feel that it's a perception thing. The world is a game. You have to play the game in order to win. I feel that the Dems do a better job of playing the game than Republicans do.

Take the Michelle/Twitter thing for example.

She's clearly manipulating. She's reaching out to the masses. It's a PR move with no substance at all. How did republicans respond to that? By bitching about the sign and making themselves appear out of touch. So who wins there? The dems do.

It's a PR move with no substance, but the Dems get to look like heroes while the Republicans get to look like grumpy, out of touch old men.

You don't have to like the game, but if you wanna win you need to play by it.

That's how i feel anyway.
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