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Old 06-11-2014, 10:25 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Rand Paul comes out for amnesty

Rand Paul throws weight behind immigration reform effort
Makes calls with Grover Norquist seeking conservative support

Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday waded deeper into an issue that has proved perilous to some of his GOP colleagues, throwing his political weight behind an establishment lobby effort to get Congress to reform the country’s immigration system this year.

Mr. Paul, a libertarian-leaning Republican from Kentucky and possible 2016 presidential hopeful, participated in a telephone conference call to conservative and business leaders in favor of immigration reform in an effort brokered by anti-tax activist Grover Norquist, The Washington Times has learned.

The business group, the Partnership for a New American Economy, immediately blasted an email Wednesday evening to supporters crowing that Mr. Paul had formally joined its pro-reform effort.

The timing of the call only heightened the potential stakes for Mr. Paul just one day after House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was shockingly ousted from office in the Virginia Republican primary in favor of a little-known college professor.

Tea party activists who whipped up a get-out-the-vote effort for Mr. Cantor’s opponent said they were motivated by the incumbent’s advocacy for immigration reform, actions on Obamacare and vote to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.

Mr. Cantor was the second high-profile Republican to suffer political damage by stepping forward on the immigration issue. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, another potential presidential contender, lost the support of his tea party base when he advocated a plan for immigration that some argued created a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

Mr. Paul, a longtime favorite of the tea party movement, has made it clear that he believes Congress needs the courage to enact immigration reform. But his latest effort pushed him further into the middle of a strident battle between establishment Republicans like Mr. Norquist who see immigration reform as essential to economic growth, and tea party activists who fear the current efforts in Congress will only lead to de facto amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Those familiar with the efforts to enlist Mr. Paul in the call said if the senator from Kentucky can use his influence with the two factions to find common ground, he would create the base of an expansive coalition to aid his presidential ambitions.

The danger, others noted, is that he could be portrayed as an establishment sympathizer and have some his base turn against him.

One of his chief rivals for tea party affection — both inside the Senate and possibly in the 2016 GOP race — is Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who has made clear that he plans to make Republicans uncomfortable if they gravitate toward amnesty.

Mr. Cruz on Wednesday told TellDC, the video partner of The Washington Times, that the Virginia election was a wake-up call to any elected official who goes against their constituencies’ wishes.

“That election is a lesson to every elected official that if we don’t listen to the people who elected us, our tenure here is limited,” the freshman Republican said.

Mr. Paul, whose supporters style him as a “live and let live” conservative, can use the issue to try to coalesce behind his disparate GOP coalition elements, including tea party backers, traditionalist conservatives, business interests and establishment Republicans.

A top Paul aide confirmed the alliance of Mr. Paul and Mr. Norquist on immigration reform, after The Times received a copy of an email sent to Republicans, Democrats, independents and others thought to be open to some kind of reform.

“Rand made the calls on immigration reform with Grover this morning,” Doug Stafford, who heads Mr. Paul’s political action committee, told The Times.

The email from the group announcing Mr. Paul’s participation opened with a subject line that stated that the senator “adds voice to #CallForReform.”

“Today, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) joined Grover Norquist to talk about the importance of passing immigration reform this year on the second call in a series with conservative leaders,” the group’s executive director, Jeremy Robbins, wrote in the email.

The message went on to note that “Senator Paul follows Sal Russo, co-founder of the Tea Party Express, who launched the series last month by calling for an overhaul of America’s immigration laws this year.”

The email concluded by noting that Mr. Paul and Mr. Russo “join an increasingly large group of conservatives who understand that the future of our economy depends on fixing our outdated immigration reform system.”

Many Americans of all political stripes regard the phrase “immigration reform” as code for granting amnesty to foreigners living in the U.S. illegally.

To some “rule of law” conservatives, it is a swear word. To other conservatives, putting millions of illegal immigrants on the road to legal status and eventually to citizenship is realistic politically and fair for people who flee warlords, drug lords and dysfunctional economies abroad to find work in the U.S.

The Partnership for a New American Economy boasts such high-profile members as former New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, a common foe of gun rights advocates and many other conservatives, and the equally wealthy Rupert Murdoch, the conservative owner of major newspapers and the Fox television family of news and entertainment channels.

The organization’s website claims it “brings together more than 500 Republican, Democratic, and independent mayors and business leaders united in making the economic case for streamlining, modernizing, and rationalizing our immigration system.”

Mr. Paul has been calling for a reform of immigration laws that secures the borders first, provides for a robust guest-worker program and can, under certain conditions, lead to the legalization of those who entered the U.S. without authorization or who overstayed their visas.


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Old 06-12-2014, 03:12 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
For the record, I have clearly stated, even to the point of italicizing, that I am talking about illegals. Don't know why you're bringing this up.

Also, I didn't say to save enough to come here, or alone, but to pay for vaccines. Mexican citizens get free vaccines. So it's really not a valid point.


You're bringing up Mexican laws, not me. You did it again right here. What does free Vaccines in Mexico have to do with Children born in the U.S? That makes no sense.

And you're also assuming that all Illegals are from Mexico. That's myopic. You can't make a law designed around what JUST Mexico does. What in the hell? C'mon now. Just because an Illegal passed through Mexico to get here doesn't make them Mexican.

And you STILL have yet to address any of the flaws i pointed out in your plan. And they're freaking HUGE holes.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:14 PM   #137
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You have no idea of how the border actually works.

Also, the crime on the US side is not even close to being comparable to the Mexican side. El Paso, for example, has extremely low crime rates for a city of its size. So, crime is not a problem on the US side of the border.
Please go to more Hillary rallies and stop posting here. I'm not comparing cities from the US to cities in Mexico. That's like using the murder rate in DC to what's going on in Mosul to validate an argument that DC is safe.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:15 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Fair 'nuff. So why do we still have States then??
Aesthetics?

J/K.

States still have power to make and enforce local laws, but the fed won a war to neuter much of it. I mean the WHOLE damn civil war was about if the states had a right to secede from the federation. The fed won. That's one aspect I don't see getting rolled back.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:16 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Aesthetics?

J/K.

States still have power to make and enforce local laws, but the fed won a war to neuter much of it. I mean the WHOLE damn civil war was about if the states had a right to secede from the federation. The fed won. That's one aspect I don't see getting rolled back.
no no no...I hear every day the Civil War was about slavery and nothing else.....
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
no no no...I hear every day the Civil War was about slavery and nothing else.....
Yeah, people say that.

Not anyone who's actually picked up a book on the topic, but it's what I was taught in school.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:20 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
Please go to more Hillary rallies and stop posting here. I'm not comparing cities from the US to cities in Mexico. That's like using the murder rate in DC to what's going on in Mosul to validate an argument that DC is safe.
Embarrassed because everything you've posted is incorrect?
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:22 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
You're bringing up Mexican laws, not me. You did it again right here. What does free Vaccines in Mexico have to do with Children born in the U.S? That makes no sense.
It came up because I asked if they were bringing newborns over too. They do bring kids over. So I wasn't talking only about those born here. To those I said they should bring some money with them to pay for vaccinations.

Now we're seeing hundreds of kids being tossed over without parents. It's the Cloward-Piven stratgey to overwhelm the system and it appears intentional.

Quote:
And you're also assuming that all Illegals are from Mexico.
That's why I have mentioned the Central Americans coming in here and elsewhere?

Nope. It's mainly been Mexicans. I'd like to know how those Central American children are getting across our border without parents when Mexico has tougher laws though? I suspect complicity by the Mexican govt and the Obama administration.

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That's myopic.
No you just missed it or didn't read it. Are you done with insults and call outs yet?
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You can't make a law designed around what JUST Mexico does.
I am not. It would apply to all illegals. Healthcare is pretty cheap in some of those Central American countries though. I hear even Americans go there.

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What in the hell? C'mon now. Just because an Illegal passed through Mexico to get here doesn't make them Mexican.
You're just sniping now.

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And you STILL have yet to address any of the flaws i pointed out in your plan. And they're freaking HUGE holes.
I did--the ones that matter or are relevant. It's still just your opinion that it's full of holes. As a matter of fact, I think it's been sufficiently discussed. So if you plan on trying to bully me into answering everything it won't work. I addressed what I felt was needed. You don't tell me what I must address. Those are my positions on this issue and I am not changing them.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:24 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I did--the ones that matter or are relevant. It's still just your opinion that it's full of holes. As a matter of fact, I think it's been sufficiently discussed. So if you plan on trying to bully me into answering everything it won't work. Those are my positions on this issue.
And the end to every argument with Bigoteyedpea shows up.

You are a worthless ****. Prison bitch and disHonest might be the dumbest ****s ever, but at least they try to make arguments and back them up.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:25 PM   #144
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Yeah, people say that.

Not anyone who's actually picked up a book on the topic, but it's what I was taught in school.
You're wrong about not picking up a book about it, since there's authors who say so who wrote a book about it that counter what's been taught in schools.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:29 PM   #145
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You're wrong about not picking up a book about it, since there's authors who say so who wrote a book about it that counter what's been taught in schools.
Drunk already?
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:30 PM   #146
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You're wrong about not picking up a book about it, since there's authors who say so who wrote a book about it that counter what's been taught in schools.
Ummmm... are you saying there are authors who's findings contradict what is taught in schools?

That's what I'm saying. I think you told me I was wrong and then just agreed with me.

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Old 06-12-2014, 03:32 PM   #147
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Ummmm... are you saying there are authors who's findings contradict what is taught in schools?

That's what I'm saying. I think you told me I was wrong and then just agreed with me.
Okay! I guess so. It looked otherwise but I didn't follow it closely enough.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:38 PM   #148
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Tell me how you would do that?
Well...we can start with "The Wall" that everyone loves so much and a militarized border. A big ****ing wall, drones, cameras, & military surveillance would go a long way in deterring people.

Once we stop the bleeding, then we can talk about what to do with the ones we already have here.

We're not going to deport 12million people. That's some RWNJ shit right there. Completely unrealistic for a myriad of reasons both socially and economically.

We need to allow work permits so they can create their OWN income as well as a form of some sort of SS# (Not an actual SS# since they're not citizens yet) so we can keep track of them and identify them so that they can pay taxes on their income and purchase things such as medical insurance.

Create a MANDATORY E-Verify program for all employers. Because we've allowed you to obtain a Work permit and a Driver's license to work, there is no reason for you to not be able to be E-verified. This forces both the employee and the immigrant to be accountable.

Allowing them to work AND pay Taxes will go a looong way in helping them rise out of poverty and subsequently, ending crimes associated with Poverty.

Zero tolerance for violent offenders. ZERO. If you commit a substantial crime, you forfeit your right work, get deported and you're on probation and not allowed to apply for citizenship for "X" amount of years.

^^^^^ Is a Starting point^^^^^^

My Philosophy is simple:

1. You can't expect people to stop streaming across the border if it's so easy to simply walk across. You can't sit there and assume that every illegal is coming across the border for the same reasons. If that Illegal didn't have healthcare in w/e South American country he's from, then it may not be a detrimental factor for him coming to America.

"Didn't have it in "Y" country, and i can't get it in the U.S...so that's a lateral move. However America does have "X" qualities, which is enough reason for me to make the move".

2. You can't expect a group of people to succeed if you don't give them the means to. You want them off welfare and public assistance? Then give them the means to do so. You can't sit here and ask people to not use public services but then give them no other option but to use those services. That is just dumb. It doesn't even pass the logic test.

3. You can't cut 12million people off and hope to starve them out. That would create an abundance of problems. If you think it's bad now, how bad would it be if you had millions of people who can't read, write and are left to starve or be ridden of disease?

....and that's just the tip of the Iceberg. There is nothing simple about this issue at all.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:42 PM   #149
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Uh hmmm.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:47 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It came up because I asked if they were bringing newborns over too. They do bring kids over. So I wasn't talking only about those born here. To those I said they should bring some money with them to pay for vaccinations.

Now we're seeing hundreds of kids being tossed over without parents. It's the Cloward-Piven stratgey to overwhelm the system and it appears intentional.


That's why I have mentioned the Central Americans coming in here and elsewhere?

Nope. It's mainly been Mexicans. I'd like to know how those Central American children are getting across our border without parents when Mexico has tougher laws though? I suspect complicity by the Mexican govt and the Obama administration.


No you just missed it or didn't read it. Are you done with insults and call outs yet?


I am not. It would apply to all illegals. Healthcare is pretty cheap in some of those Central American countries though. I hear even Americans go there.



You're just sniping now.



I did--the ones that matter or are relevant. It's still just your opinion that it's full of holes. As a matter of fact, I think it's been sufficiently discussed. So if you plan on trying to bully me into answering everything it won't work. I addressed what I felt was needed. You don't tell me what I must address. Those are my positions on this issue and I am not changing them.
You're dancing. And if you're going to continue to dance then there is no need to continue this discussion. No, you haven't addressed the issues i brought up. If you have, please quote it for me as i must've missed it.

The fact that you choose to dismiss the issues i brought is sad. You can't just ignore them and hope that they don't happen. You can't pick and choose what you think is relevant and isn't. If you're going to have a plan then it needs to be a thorough, well thought out plan. You can't just dish it out and hope for the best. You can't just pretend like everything is going to be ok.

Creating a whole new level poverty is kind of a big deal. It's one you need to be prepared for and can't just ignore it and refuse to address it. Well....actually....maybe YOU can, but this country cannot. So if you don't have an answer for this country, then it's not quite as good of an idea as you had hoped.

And lastly, for you to claim that I am insulting you is an insult to ME. I have never once insulted you, i have never been rude to you. I said your idea regarding this issue is myopic. I said that your idea regarding this issue is stupid. I never once called YOU stupid. I've been very careful NOT to insult you, the poster. I have certainly attacked your posts, but i can't recall attacking YOU, the poster.
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Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.Detoxing is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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