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Old 06-11-2014, 09:25 PM  
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Rand Paul comes out for amnesty

Rand Paul throws weight behind immigration reform effort
Makes calls with Grover Norquist seeking conservative support

Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday waded deeper into an issue that has proved perilous to some of his GOP colleagues, throwing his political weight behind an establishment lobby effort to get Congress to reform the country’s immigration system this year.

Mr. Paul, a libertarian-leaning Republican from Kentucky and possible 2016 presidential hopeful, participated in a telephone conference call to conservative and business leaders in favor of immigration reform in an effort brokered by anti-tax activist Grover Norquist, The Washington Times has learned.

The business group, the Partnership for a New American Economy, immediately blasted an email Wednesday evening to supporters crowing that Mr. Paul had formally joined its pro-reform effort.

The timing of the call only heightened the potential stakes for Mr. Paul just one day after House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was shockingly ousted from office in the Virginia Republican primary in favor of a little-known college professor.

Tea party activists who whipped up a get-out-the-vote effort for Mr. Cantor’s opponent said they were motivated by the incumbent’s advocacy for immigration reform, actions on Obamacare and vote to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.

Mr. Cantor was the second high-profile Republican to suffer political damage by stepping forward on the immigration issue. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, another potential presidential contender, lost the support of his tea party base when he advocated a plan for immigration that some argued created a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

Mr. Paul, a longtime favorite of the tea party movement, has made it clear that he believes Congress needs the courage to enact immigration reform. But his latest effort pushed him further into the middle of a strident battle between establishment Republicans like Mr. Norquist who see immigration reform as essential to economic growth, and tea party activists who fear the current efforts in Congress will only lead to de facto amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Those familiar with the efforts to enlist Mr. Paul in the call said if the senator from Kentucky can use his influence with the two factions to find common ground, he would create the base of an expansive coalition to aid his presidential ambitions.

The danger, others noted, is that he could be portrayed as an establishment sympathizer and have some his base turn against him.

One of his chief rivals for tea party affection — both inside the Senate and possibly in the 2016 GOP race — is Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who has made clear that he plans to make Republicans uncomfortable if they gravitate toward amnesty.

Mr. Cruz on Wednesday told TellDC, the video partner of The Washington Times, that the Virginia election was a wake-up call to any elected official who goes against their constituencies’ wishes.

“That election is a lesson to every elected official that if we don’t listen to the people who elected us, our tenure here is limited,” the freshman Republican said.

Mr. Paul, whose supporters style him as a “live and let live” conservative, can use the issue to try to coalesce behind his disparate GOP coalition elements, including tea party backers, traditionalist conservatives, business interests and establishment Republicans.

A top Paul aide confirmed the alliance of Mr. Paul and Mr. Norquist on immigration reform, after The Times received a copy of an email sent to Republicans, Democrats, independents and others thought to be open to some kind of reform.

“Rand made the calls on immigration reform with Grover this morning,” Doug Stafford, who heads Mr. Paul’s political action committee, told The Times.

The email from the group announcing Mr. Paul’s participation opened with a subject line that stated that the senator “adds voice to #CallForReform.”

“Today, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) joined Grover Norquist to talk about the importance of passing immigration reform this year on the second call in a series with conservative leaders,” the group’s executive director, Jeremy Robbins, wrote in the email.

The message went on to note that “Senator Paul follows Sal Russo, co-founder of the Tea Party Express, who launched the series last month by calling for an overhaul of America’s immigration laws this year.”

The email concluded by noting that Mr. Paul and Mr. Russo “join an increasingly large group of conservatives who understand that the future of our economy depends on fixing our outdated immigration reform system.”

Many Americans of all political stripes regard the phrase “immigration reform” as code for granting amnesty to foreigners living in the U.S. illegally.

To some “rule of law” conservatives, it is a swear word. To other conservatives, putting millions of illegal immigrants on the road to legal status and eventually to citizenship is realistic politically and fair for people who flee warlords, drug lords and dysfunctional economies abroad to find work in the U.S.

The Partnership for a New American Economy boasts such high-profile members as former New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, a common foe of gun rights advocates and many other conservatives, and the equally wealthy Rupert Murdoch, the conservative owner of major newspapers and the Fox television family of news and entertainment channels.

The organization’s website claims it “brings together more than 500 Republican, Democratic, and independent mayors and business leaders united in making the economic case for streamlining, modernizing, and rationalizing our immigration system.”

Mr. Paul has been calling for a reform of immigration laws that secures the borders first, provides for a robust guest-worker program and can, under certain conditions, lead to the legalization of those who entered the U.S. without authorization or who overstayed their visas.


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Old 06-12-2014, 01:36 PM   #91
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You want the state responsible for managing a growing population of immigrants separated from their parents at birth? That sounds like a horrifying proposition.

I like your first idea much better - kids get the same citizenship as the parents.
I'm not advocating for that option, I'm saying that we are using a bit of a bullshit dump when we talk about the citizenship of these kids.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:38 PM   #92
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Well, you are re-wording my argument to "children" in general...and I did not say that.



Private hospitals can make their own policies...but the federal govt should not mandate this.



Mandated by govt free healthcare is welfare. They can pay for any medical care if they want it. This has also harmed law abiding American citizens by driving up our health care costs. So we are subsidizing them. Furthermore, they have socialized care in Mexico. So if they don't like this policy they can go back on their own free will. They can get an education back in their home country too. Bottom line, this is their choice. If they come, they have to obey our laws.

If they have not contributed anything to the country when they have arrived, then they have no right to free anything courtesy of the US federal govt or any govt. That's welfare. And it's a lure that rewards illegal activity. What you subsidize you get more of in economics.

Sorry that's how I feel about it. You obviously are for free services and benefits to law breaking foreigners. So you support welfare for illegals who broke the law.
Im anti-Poverty.

Having a young crop of illiterates is beyond stupid and incredibly detrimental to the rest of us.

Having 12 million people who are denied vaccinations sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If some guy gets his hand chopped off what are we going to do, turn him away and send him home to bleed it out? I'm sure that'll fly over real smooth.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:39 PM   #93
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I was onboard with you until you started babbling on about seceding. Now you're venturing into RWNJ status.
Why not?

Texas was an independent republic at first. Well actually they were part of Mexico; then seceded becoming an independent Republic. Why are you okay with their first secession and not a later secession?

They then decided to voluntarily become a member of the Union of states. I would think, that they have the same voluntary right to leave if they are not happy with how the federal govt is governing them.

What is crazy about this when this country seceded from the British Crown for similar reasons?
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:42 PM   #94
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I was onboard with you until you started babbling on about seceding. Now you're venturing into RWNJ status.
Their state is being destroyed by illegals, drug smuggling, and crimes directly related to the border issues. They have more of a reason than anyone wanting to fix this huge problem.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:43 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Im anti-Poverty.
I am too. I'm just not a socialist about it. It always worsens economic conditions for all.
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Having a young crop of illiterates is beyond stupid and incredibly detrimental to the rest of us.
Again, my aim is to discourage further illegal immigration. Since we know that subsidizing anything creates more of it. That rewarding it creates more of it.

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Having 12 million people who are denied vaccinations sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If some guy gets his hand chopped off what are we going to do, turn him away and send him home to bleed it out? I'm sure that'll fly over real smooth.
They aren't newborn infants are they? They shoulda' been immunized in their own countries as babies first. If born here, then they pay a pediatrician to immunize their babies--the way millions of Americans have to. They don't deserve any special privileges at all even if they didn't break the law but certainly not if they do break the law.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:43 PM   #96
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No, I am reducing their incentive to come here illegally.

Your point about another country not accepting them is ludicrous. They come from some other country. Unless that country keeps no birth records you have that problem.
What?

If a child is born in the U.S to a two Foreign Venezuelan nationals, why in the world would Venezuela have his birth records? Each country has different citizenship requirements. This isn't a one size fits all situation. One country might take that Child born on American Soil, another country is just as likely to give the U.S the finger if you tried deporting that kid into their country.

Again, now what do you do with that kid? You've created ANOTHER problem. Another drain that will inevitably be bitched about.

And you're assuming that you're reducing their incentive. You'd have to know what their intentions are before you could assume that you've reduced their incentive.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:46 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Why not?

Texas was an independent republic at first. Well actually they were part of Mexico; then seceded becoming an independent Republic. Why are you okay with their first secession and not a later secession?

They then decided to voluntarily become a member of the Union of states. I would think, that they have the same voluntary right to leave if they are not happy with how the federal govt is governing them.

What is crazy about this when this country seceded from the British Crown for similar reasons?
Texas does not have the right to leave the Union if they choose to.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:46 PM   #98
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Look, detoxing, millions of immigrants before these guys came here, pulled themselves up and worked hard to make a new life here. You act as if it's impossible. That's patronizing and condescending. If it worked before it can work again--that is for those who want it bad enough. People aren't that unable or wimpy about doing what they need to get ahead.

Sorry, but those are my positions on illegal immigrants. They get NOTHING.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:47 PM   #99
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I am too. I'm just not a socialist about it. It always worsens economic conditions for all.


Again, my aim is to discourage further illegal immigration. Since we know that subsidizing anything creates more of it. That rewarding it creates more of it.



They aren't newborn infants are they? They shoulda' been immunized in their own countries as babies first. If born here, then they pay a pediatrician to immunize their babies--the way millions of Americans have to. They don't deserve any special privileges at all even if they didn't break the law but certainly not if they do break the law.
You want them to pay for immunization, yet you don't want them to work? Correct? How exactly are they suppose to pay for that if you won't allow them work. If they were allowed work permits then i'd agree with you. However, that'd go against your plan, wouldn't it?

Im sorry, but your takes on this issue simply aren't well thought out, which isn't uncommon when it comes to Immigration and Chiefsplanet. You're not thinking about the repercussions at all.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:47 PM   #100
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Texas does not have the right to leave the Union if they choose to.
If that's true isn't that tantamount to saying Texas doesn't have the right to be a State? And therefore doesn't that ultimately lead to a country without States?
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:47 PM   #101
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Their state is being destroyed by illegals, drug smuggling, and crimes directly related to the border issues. They have more of a reason than anyone wanting to fix this huge problem.
Destroyed? Texas has seen job and population growth and didn't experience the recession nearly as much as the rest of the country.

You have no clue of what you're talking about.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:48 PM   #102
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So.
That's more relevant than what you posted. You're not very original but then being a copycat is the sincerest form of flattery.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:48 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Im anti-Poverty.

Having a young crop of illiterates is beyond stupid and incredibly detrimental to the rest of us.

Having 12 million people who are denied vaccinations sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If some guy gets his hand chopped off what are we going to do, turn him away and send him home to bleed it out? I'm sure that'll fly over real smooth.
I think the point is that there wouldn't be 12 million illegals here for that if we didn't already offer it.

Which is true. I think finding a solution to the root problem is vital. The greater problem is that after 30 years of active non-action (we talk about it a lot) there are already 12 million people here. They're not going to just go away if we change things now. This problem has been ignored for so long that it's going to be incredibly difficult to push back against it.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:48 PM   #104
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If that's true isn't that tantamount to saying Texas doesn't have the right to be a State? And therefore doesn't that ultimately lead to a country without States?
No.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #105
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You want them to pay for immunization, yet you don't want them to work? Correct? How exactly are they suppose to pay for that if you won't allow them work. If they were allowed work permits then i'd agree with you. However, that'd go against your plan, wouldn't it?

Im sorry, but your takes on this issue simply aren't well thought out, which isn't uncommon when it comes to Immigration and Chiefsplanet. You're not thinking about the repercussions at all.
None of her takes are well thought out.
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