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Old 06-11-2014, 09:25 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Rand Paul comes out for amnesty

Rand Paul throws weight behind immigration reform effort
Makes calls with Grover Norquist seeking conservative support

Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday waded deeper into an issue that has proved perilous to some of his GOP colleagues, throwing his political weight behind an establishment lobby effort to get Congress to reform the country’s immigration system this year.

Mr. Paul, a libertarian-leaning Republican from Kentucky and possible 2016 presidential hopeful, participated in a telephone conference call to conservative and business leaders in favor of immigration reform in an effort brokered by anti-tax activist Grover Norquist, The Washington Times has learned.

The business group, the Partnership for a New American Economy, immediately blasted an email Wednesday evening to supporters crowing that Mr. Paul had formally joined its pro-reform effort.

The timing of the call only heightened the potential stakes for Mr. Paul just one day after House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was shockingly ousted from office in the Virginia Republican primary in favor of a little-known college professor.

Tea party activists who whipped up a get-out-the-vote effort for Mr. Cantor’s opponent said they were motivated by the incumbent’s advocacy for immigration reform, actions on Obamacare and vote to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.

Mr. Cantor was the second high-profile Republican to suffer political damage by stepping forward on the immigration issue. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, another potential presidential contender, lost the support of his tea party base when he advocated a plan for immigration that some argued created a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

Mr. Paul, a longtime favorite of the tea party movement, has made it clear that he believes Congress needs the courage to enact immigration reform. But his latest effort pushed him further into the middle of a strident battle between establishment Republicans like Mr. Norquist who see immigration reform as essential to economic growth, and tea party activists who fear the current efforts in Congress will only lead to de facto amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Those familiar with the efforts to enlist Mr. Paul in the call said if the senator from Kentucky can use his influence with the two factions to find common ground, he would create the base of an expansive coalition to aid his presidential ambitions.

The danger, others noted, is that he could be portrayed as an establishment sympathizer and have some his base turn against him.

One of his chief rivals for tea party affection — both inside the Senate and possibly in the 2016 GOP race — is Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who has made clear that he plans to make Republicans uncomfortable if they gravitate toward amnesty.

Mr. Cruz on Wednesday told TellDC, the video partner of The Washington Times, that the Virginia election was a wake-up call to any elected official who goes against their constituencies’ wishes.

“That election is a lesson to every elected official that if we don’t listen to the people who elected us, our tenure here is limited,” the freshman Republican said.

Mr. Paul, whose supporters style him as a “live and let live” conservative, can use the issue to try to coalesce behind his disparate GOP coalition elements, including tea party backers, traditionalist conservatives, business interests and establishment Republicans.

A top Paul aide confirmed the alliance of Mr. Paul and Mr. Norquist on immigration reform, after The Times received a copy of an email sent to Republicans, Democrats, independents and others thought to be open to some kind of reform.

“Rand made the calls on immigration reform with Grover this morning,” Doug Stafford, who heads Mr. Paul’s political action committee, told The Times.

The email from the group announcing Mr. Paul’s participation opened with a subject line that stated that the senator “adds voice to #CallForReform.”

“Today, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) joined Grover Norquist to talk about the importance of passing immigration reform this year on the second call in a series with conservative leaders,” the group’s executive director, Jeremy Robbins, wrote in the email.

The message went on to note that “Senator Paul follows Sal Russo, co-founder of the Tea Party Express, who launched the series last month by calling for an overhaul of America’s immigration laws this year.”

The email concluded by noting that Mr. Paul and Mr. Russo “join an increasingly large group of conservatives who understand that the future of our economy depends on fixing our outdated immigration reform system.”

Many Americans of all political stripes regard the phrase “immigration reform” as code for granting amnesty to foreigners living in the U.S. illegally.

To some “rule of law” conservatives, it is a swear word. To other conservatives, putting millions of illegal immigrants on the road to legal status and eventually to citizenship is realistic politically and fair for people who flee warlords, drug lords and dysfunctional economies abroad to find work in the U.S.

The Partnership for a New American Economy boasts such high-profile members as former New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, a common foe of gun rights advocates and many other conservatives, and the equally wealthy Rupert Murdoch, the conservative owner of major newspapers and the Fox television family of news and entertainment channels.

The organization’s website claims it “brings together more than 500 Republican, Democratic, and independent mayors and business leaders united in making the economic case for streamlining, modernizing, and rationalizing our immigration system.”

Mr. Paul has been calling for a reform of immigration laws that secures the borders first, provides for a robust guest-worker program and can, under certain conditions, lead to the legalization of those who entered the U.S. without authorization or who overstayed their visas.


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Old 06-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #106
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No.
Well, after that explanation, I feel much better
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #107
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Texas has a fundamental natural right to leave the union, since the union was considered a voluntary one. Natural rights precede govts. It is no different than our leaving the crown or Texas having left Mexico because they didn't like how they were governed back then. The consent of the governed is gone. Might as well leave then. Mexico is still a shit govt today, unfortunately.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #108
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Look, detoxing, millions of immigrants before these guys came here, pulled themselves up and worked hard to make a new life here. You act as if it's impossible. That's patronizing and condescending. If it worked before it can work again--that is for those who want it bad enough. People aren't that unable or wimpy about doing what they need to get ahead.

Sorry, but those are my positions on illegal immigrants. They get NOTHING.
If you deny 12million people an education or medical then you're creating a level of poverty and violence that has never been seen before in this country.

That is beyond stupid. The repercussions of that would be astronomical.

Your plan has absolutely no foresight whatsoever. You'd create slums that rival that of India.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:51 PM   #109
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If I'm Texas, I say to the feds: "You have 1 week to present viable plan to us to secure our border. You have 30 days to start the process. You have 6 months to complete the process. Any delay in this and we will secede from the Union and secure it ourselves."

I'm not from Texas, but as a Kansan, I'd completely understand their position.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:53 PM   #110
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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You want them to pay for immunization, yet you don't want them to work? Correct? How exactly are they suppose to pay for that if you won't allow them work.
They'd have to back home to work. Or save their money before leaving. It's really not all that hard. Millions have done it.

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If they were allowed work permits then i'd agree with you. However, that'd go against your plan, wouldn't it?
The work permit is simply an idea to allow them to come here legally to work.

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Im sorry, but your takes on this issue simply aren't well thought out, which isn't uncommon when it comes to Immigration and Chiefsplanet. You're not thinking about the repercussions at all.
Well your entitled to that opinion. I and others don't happen to agree with it. What we already know for a fact, is that your way has NOT worked.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:54 PM   #111
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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If that's true isn't that tantamount to saying Texas doesn't have the right to be a State? And therefore doesn't that ultimately lead to a country without States?
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:54 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Texas has a fundamental natural right to leave the union, since the union was considered a voluntary one. Natural rights precede govts. It is no different than our leaving the crown or Texas having left Mexico because they didn't like how they were governed back then. The consent of the governed is gone. Might as well leave then. Mexico is still a shit govt today, unfortunately.
No, Texas does not have a right to secede if they want to.

They are a state like any other state. This country has fought a war over this and the side that favored secession lost.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:54 PM   #113
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I think the point is that there wouldn't be 12 million illegals here for that if we didn't already offer it.

Which is true. I think finding a solution to the root problem is vital. The greater problem is that after 30 years of active non-action (we talk about it a lot) there are already 12 million people here. They're not going to just go away if we change things now. This problem has been ignored for so long that it's going to be incredibly difficult to push back against it.
I understand what she's trying to accomplish. It's just not grounded in reality whatsoever because it doesn't address the issue at hand, like you mentioned.

And it also assumes a lot of things. And if those assumptions aren't true, then you've effectively multiplied your problem.

That's not a solution.

I agree, the solution here is incredibly difficult, which is why nothing has moved forward yet.

BEP's idea is yet another we can scratch off the list.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:55 PM   #114
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That's more relevant than what you posted. You're not very original but then being a copycat is the sincerest form of flattery.
1) I'm a citizen because I was born here, and the law says that's all that it takes.

2) Those kids aren't citizens because (blah blah blah).
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:55 PM   #115
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1) I'm a citizen because I was born here, and the law says that's all that it takes.

2) Those kids aren't citizens because (blah blah blah).
In your opinion it's blah blah.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM   #116
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1) I'm a citizen because I was born here, and the law says that's all that it takes.

2) Those kids aren't citizens because (blah blah blah).
**** you. I gotz mine /Bigoteyedpea
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM   #117
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In your opinion it's blah blah.
No more blah blah blah.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM   #118
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Well, after that explanation, I feel much better
America fought a pretty important war over this issue.

State rights lost the war.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:57 PM   #119
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I understand what she's trying to accomplish. It's just not grounded in reality whatsoever because it doesn't address the issue at hand, like you mentioned.

And it also assumes a lot of things. And if those assumptions aren't true, then you've effectively multiplied your problem.

That's not a solution.

I agree, the solution here is incredibly difficult, which is why nothing has moved forward yet.

BEP's idea is yet another we can scratch off the list.
It's not my idea. I've adopted the idea from Ron Paul because I think it's valid. He's not exactly a stupid man and is a doctor. In fact he uses deductive reasoning since we already know what is subsidized we get more of; what we reward we get more of. That's why socialism does not work. Sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real word. It rewards non-production, poor choices and behavior that harms.

What's funny, is that Mexico's immigration law is stricter than ours. But it is not incredibly difficult to resolve.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:58 PM   #120
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It's not my idea. I've adopted the idea from Ron Paul because I think it's valid. He's not exactly a stupid man and is a doctor.

appeal to authority fallacy

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What's funny, is that Mexico's immigration law is stricter than ours.
Non-sequitor fallacy
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