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Old 06-16-2014, 02:24 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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FEDS TAKE RECORD $1.9 TRILLION IN REVENUE

Yes, this is a Drudge Headline. Yes, you can eat it if you don't like that. This should end the discussion about needing to raise revenues. Despite taking in a record $1.9 trillion, they're running a deficit of $436 billion.

The problem isn't that the rich aren't kicking in their "fair share." The problem is the pigs in DC will promise anything and everything in order to get elected.

This is why the tea party was willing to shut down the government. This is why they were willing to do the sequester. This is why the tea party is willing to replace conservative leaders. And it will keep on this way until those numbers get fixed.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...l-running-436b
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:09 PM   #16
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what about the balanced budget ammendment talk that was around a few years ago?

is that a pipe dream? or is it do-able but no one wants it because there's too much money to be made by folks?

would seem to me to be a reasonable request. but, no one will want to cut their pet projects. especially DoD.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post

So, since we live in a democracy and not a dictatorship, and since the electorate gets to decide how much we spend, we only have one real option. You can't just fold your arms and tell the voters no, they'll vote your ass out of office and find someone who will say yes.
That's just it, we DO NOT live in a democracy. We live in representative republic that has a Constitution that supposed to limit such things and protect rights. Politicians over time, violated this and so we end up where we are now. If you keep borrowing, inflating and taxing, which are the three ways we pay for govt, it ends bad anyway--no matter what the people wanted. It could also end in dictatorship if things end as bad as they can.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:23 PM   #18
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What we have is a crisis of leadership where no one at the helm is willing to make sound choices either through ideology ( the left ) or spinelessness on the right.

Ronald Reagan won on a message of cutting govt. I mean he wound up not cutting much of anything but he still won on that message. I think the Rs should run on a prosperous economy and this requires less govt taking money out of the majority of people's pockets. They can't have it both ways. If people don't have viable work, they will demand govt take care of them.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
What we have is a crisis of leadership where no one at the helm is willing to make sound choices either through ideology ( the left ) or spinelessness on the right.

Ronald Reagan won on a message of cutting govt. I mean he wound up not cutting much of anything but he still won on that message. I think the Rs should run on a prosperous economy and this requires less govt taking money out of the majority of people's pockets. They can't have it both ways. If people don't have viable work, they will demand govt take care of them.
The demographics have changed quite a lot. If the voters in 1980 were demographically similar to what it will look like in 2016 and definitely 2020, then Carter would have narrowly won re-election.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Whether you or I like it or not, the reality is that we do have a revenue problem and not a spending problem.

The reason I say that is because the medical services and retirement income that the voters demand, and by "demand" I mean "we'll vote you right out of office if you don't give it to us or try to cut it" kind of demand, is more than the tax revenue we bring in, and the tax revenue would increase, not decrease, if taxes were raised a little bit.

A lot of conservatives and tea party guys have this fantasy that if some sober well-spoken adult would just have an intelligent conversation with the American people, then they could convince the voters that we can't afford it and must cut spending, but that fantasy is wrong. Anyone who tries to take on that role in a national presidential election is going to lose very badly.

So, if the voters absolutely insist on a level of spending that requires more taxes, and if they are willing to back up that demand by voting out any presidential candidate who runs on cutting spending, then we've only got one other way to balance the budget.
And this leads you to diagnose the problem as one of revenue, not spending? No, the problem is definitely spending and yes, the voters are complicit.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:11 PM   #21
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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The demographics have changed quite a lot. If the voters in 1980 were demographically similar to what it will look like in 2016 and definitely 2020, then Carter would have narrowly won re-election.
I still don't think you can make your claims though. Not when polls consistently show the majority thinks the govt is doing too much.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
We only have a "revenue problem" because of the spending problem.
It's called the military.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I still don't think you can make your claims though. Not when polls consistently show the majority thinks the govt is doing too much.
When people are asked about it in general, the majority agrees that the government is doing too much. But when we get down to specifics, the consensus disappears and the voter energy is all on the side of those who think the "cuts" are too painful or in the wrong place. That's why there was a sequester instead of a set of thoughtful cuts.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:23 PM   #24
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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$17,536,614,238,239.15

Federal Debt - ish At some point we need to spend less than we take in. Soon would be good if you have kids and grandkids
The federal debt was shrinking until Supply side economics took hold in the 80's.

Clinton even ran a surplus.

Wanna guess how that was pissed away?
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:08 PM   #25
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It's called the military.
Really? I thought that the DoD just went through pretty significant cuts, no?

I would say it's called our entitlement programs.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayze View Post
1000% agree.
it's not a matter of increasing revenue, it's a matter of reducing expenses; namely DoD.
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Originally Posted by Dayze View Post
what about the balanced budget ammendment talk that was around a few years ago?

is that a pipe dream? or is it do-able but no one wants it because there's too much money to be made by folks?

would seem to me to be a reasonable request. but, no one will want to cut their pet projects. especially DoD.
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It's called the military.
The amount of dumbassery by some posters never fails to amaze me.

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Old 06-16-2014, 06:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dayze View Post
what about the balanced budget ammendment talk that was around a few years ago?

is that a pipe dream? or is it do-able but no one wants it because there's too much money to be made by folks?

would seem to me to be a reasonable request. but, no one will want to cut their pet projects. especially DoD.
Completely unrealistic to implement. It would lead to erratic levels of government spending.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:41 PM   #28
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Here's another graph showing that defense spending is NOT the problem.

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Old 06-16-2014, 06:42 PM   #29
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Completely unrealistic to implement. It would lead to erratic levels of government spending.
Completely agree. A Balanced Budget Amendment is supported only by people who are incredibly naive and ignorant.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The federal debt was shrinking until Supply side economics took hold in the 80's.

Clinton even ran a surplus.

Wanna guess how that was pissed away?
Actually the Republican house ran a surplus for a brief time at the end of Clinton's 2nd term. The debt was not shrinking in the 70s. The debt was ballooning interest rates and unemployment were far worse than when Obama took office. The end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s were a mess.
I do agree that military has to be part of the reduction in spending. We don't need to outspend our potential enemies and allies combined. I am not a big fan of Paul Ryan but found the hysteria over his budget proposal hilarious. You would have thought he was proposing killing all the retired peopled and eating all the children when all he proposed was a decrease in the size of the automatic increases.
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