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Old 06-23-2014, 01:39 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Cheney basically wants us to open a WWII like offensive in the Middle East...

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Old 06-23-2014, 01:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I don't see how you don't see it. Cheney is calling for a region-wide offensive. You don't even need to read between the lines. He pretty well states it.
We're in a global war so we need a global response (but not an exclusively military one). I see nothing from Cheney to suggest that he thinks that response should be WWII like. Maybe it would help me understand what you're saying if you define "WWII like offensive", because I'm not seeing anything like millions of troops fighting their way across a continent.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:11 PM   #17
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The dirty little secret about war is that all wars end when you have a high civilian casualty rate. When diplomacy and special forces aren't enough then......We stopped fighting wars to end wars after WWII and look what it has gotten us. Korea,Vietnam, etc.......

Bottom line: Yes war is ugly but it either can be a 'short ugly' or a 'long drawn out ugly hell' that never ends which is what we have now when you don't fight to win all out. You either kick ass from beginning to the very end or have your ass kicked in the end by this 'politically correct cherry picking type of war'. Didn't really matter if Bush I or II would or would not have invaded the Middle East, nor did it really matter the history of how our big egos have provoked the Middle East from time to time. But what does matter and still matters is that WE (USA) have always been in the Islam cross hairs from the very get go REGARDLESS and that WE FIGHT TO WIN which our soldiers are trying to do but our corrupt politicians refuse to do.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:19 PM   #18
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No we haven't. This is an entirely created situation due to bad policy. Either you support Just War Doctrine as a Christian or you don't.

These people have to want to be democracies and they don't. They like authoritarian rule.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:29 PM   #19
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We're in a global war so we need a global response (but not an exclusively military one). I see nothing from Cheney to suggest that he thinks that response should be WWII like. Maybe it would help me understand what you're saying if you define "WWII like offensive", because I'm not seeing anything like millions of troops fighting their way across a continent.

Really? That's silly. I usually expect more wisdom from you.

Dick Cheney is pretty clear in that he knows that we're not going to be able to air strike our way across a region to get permanent gains - certainly not the kind that Cheney hopes for. He's looking for a fundamental transition in Arab relations similar to what the US has with Europe. That's certainly what McCain was hoping for, and he's made no bones about it.

Cheney has been very public about his intentions to see us have 200,000 troops in that region:
(Feb 11, 2013) Former Vice President Dick Cheney called for the immediate invasion of Iran today, arguing the time had come to stop the Iranian nuclear program with American boots on the ground.

In a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation, the 72-year-old Republican criticized the Obama administration for its "appeasement" of Tehran's rulers and outlined a "fool-proof" plan to occupy the Islamic republic of 75 million people.

Cheney's plan suggests the United States lead a multinational coalition of 200,000 troops in a multi-pronged invasion from land, sea, and air with the goal of regime change.

"The objective will be to overwhelm the enemy with air strikes," Cheney said. "Our superior firepower will shock and awe the regime into complete and permanent submission, making larger numbers of troops unnecessary."
So there is that, and now he's talking about a region-wide effort - that's going to take more than 200,000 troops, and what Cheney is talking about is a national commitment, not merely drone striking our way to middle east peace.

This conversation isn't about whether the US can drone strike our way to peaceful relations. This is an actual war conversation that forces people to ask themselves how involved they want the US to be in the middle east.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Really? That's silly. I usually expect more wisdom from you.

Dick Cheney is pretty clear in that he knows that we're not going to be able to air strike our way across a region to get permanent gains - certainly not the kind that Cheney hopes for. He's looking for a fundamental transition in Arab relations similar to what the US has with Europe. That's certainly what McCain was hoping for, and he's made no bones about it.

Cheney has been very public about his intentions to see us have 200,000 troops in that region:
(Feb 11, 2013) Former Vice President Dick Cheney called for the immediate invasion of Iran today, arguing the time had come to stop the Iranian nuclear program with American boots on the ground.

In a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation, the 72-year-old Republican criticized the Obama administration for its "appeasement" of Tehran's rulers and outlined a "fool-proof" plan to occupy the Islamic republic of 75 million people.

Cheney's plan suggests the United States lead a multinational coalition of 200,000 troops in a multi-pronged invasion from land, sea, and air with the goal of regime change.

"The objective will be to overwhelm the enemy with air strikes," Cheney said. "Our superior firepower will shock and awe the regime into complete and permanent submission, making larger numbers of troops unnecessary."
So there is that, and now he's talking about a region-wide effort - that's going to take more than 200,000 troops, and what Cheney is talking about is a national commitment, not merely drone striking our way to middle east peace.

This conversation isn't about whether the US can drone strike our way to peaceful relations. This is an actual war conversation that forces people to ask themselves how involved they want the US to be in the middle east.
I don't suppose you could find a transcript of that speech?
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:54 PM   #21
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I don't suppose you could find a transcript of that speech?
No. I tried to find it, but all that I found when I put "Cheney 200,000 troops to middle east" into Google were all the other times he called for sending 200,000 troops to the middle east.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
No. I tried to find it, but all that I found when I put "Cheney 200,000 troops to middle east" into Google were all the other times he called for sending 200,000 troops to the middle east.
Yes, but that was in 2002, not 2014. And, he was talking about Iraq, not Iran.

Those are two different countries, BTW, and 2002 isn't the year right now.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Cheney has been very public about his intentions to see us have 200,000 troops in that region:
(Feb 11, 2013) Former Vice President Dick Cheney called for the immediate invasion of Iran today, arguing the time had come to stop the Iranian nuclear program with American boots on the ground.

In a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation, the 72-year-old Republican criticized the Obama administration for its "appeasement" of Tehran's rulers and outlined a "fool-proof" plan to occupy the Islamic republic of 75 million people.

Cheney's plan suggests the United States lead a multinational coalition of 200,000 troops in a multi-pronged invasion from land, sea, and air with the goal of regime change.

"The objective will be to overwhelm the enemy with air strikes," Cheney said. "Our superior firepower will shock and awe the regime into complete and permanent submission, making larger numbers of troops unnecessary."
The Daily Currant is a satire site you rube
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:12 PM   #24
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The Daily Currant is a satire site you rube


I suppose we really don't know how to decipher NeoCon rhetoric....
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:16 PM   #25
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His source for that story was something called "The Daily Courant"...Sample story?


Mitch McConnell Brings Rifle to ‘Larry the Cable Guy’ Show

Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell, facing a tough reelection, was spotted last night brandishing a hunting rifle at a Larry the Cable Guy comedy show in Lexington, Ky.

The Senate minority leader, who is unpopular in his homestate, was attending the “blue collar” comedian’s stand-up show at the Lexington Comedy Shop when he reportedly waved the rifle in the air and yelled, “Don’t tread on me, Obama!”

McConnell was asked to leave the event because the theater does not allow guns. As he was escorted from the theater, McConnell reportedly kept shouting obscenities and screaming about his second amendment rights.

“I think it’s outrageous that in this day and age a man can’t see Larry the Cable Guy perform while carrying a gun,” McConnell told reporters outside the Comedy Shop. “Without guns, Kentucky wouldn’t have produced great men like … umm, Wyatt Earp and Robert E. Lee, or Davy Crockett who defended the Alamo. ‘Remember the Alamo’ as I always say.”...

McConnell denied that his unexpected appearance at a Larry the Cable Guy show was a desperate attempt before the election to seem like he’s in-touch with Kentucky voters.

“This is just a typical day for me in the great state of Kentucky, a state I love to visit,” he said. “Like all Kentuckians, I love betting on horses, listening to bluegrass music, chewing tobacco, eating fried chicken, watching Justified on DVD and drinking Jack Daniels, the best whiskey in the world.”

When told that Jack Daniels is from Tennessee, McConnell quickly responded: “Tennessee? Al Gore’s state? I hate those coastal liberal elitists in Tennessee. It’s the fake Kentucky. And that Tennessee whiskey is gosh-darn hooey compared to … Tim Beans, my favorite whiskey that is made right here in Kentucky.”

Kentucked

McConnell, who has been a senator since 1984 and built a strong Republican machine in the state, is facing tough reelection, including a challenge from the Tea Party, who view him as a pork-barrel-spending career politician.

The McConnell campaign has been inept, and McConnell received a tepid endorsement from Tea Party hero and fellow Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul. Earlier this year, McConnell shamelessly brandished a gun at the CPAC convention, where his speech received an indifferent response.

But outside the Comedy Shop, McConnell insisted to reporters that he is “a simple but proud Kentuckian who loves Cracker Barrel, Chik-Fil-A, Paula Deen, country music and grits.”

Before McConnell left the event in a Chevy pickup with a Confederate Flag bumper sticker, reporters asked him how he planned to help communities in eastern Kentucky that are facing unemployment and poverty from the declining coal industry.

“Hell I know. Build more prisons or NSA data centers: that’ll provide jobs,” he responded. “Ask the governor. It’s his problem.”



Jeebus!

I think Dave Lane and Taco have been drinking out of the same bottle lately...
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:18 PM   #26
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Well it really is more the governor's problem.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:20 PM   #27
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The Daily Currant is a satire site you rube
You beat me to it, you anti-rube!
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
The Daily Currant is a satire site you rube
So it is...


Looks like I'm their latest victim...

Nevertheless, I stand by the sentiment. Cheney's desires to reshape the region are all too clear, and he knows that isn't going to happen with drone strikes.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:26 PM   #29
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:30 PM   #30
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Really? That's silly. I usually expect more wisdom from you.

Dick Cheney is pretty clear in that he knows that we're not going to be able to air strike our way across a region to get permanent gains - certainly not the kind that Cheney hopes for. He's looking for a fundamental transition in Arab relations similar to what the US has with Europe. That's certainly what McCain was hoping for, and he's made no bones about it.


That's what Cheney and his ilk wanted all along, if you read the PNAC and AEI documents, where Cheney was a heavy hitter. Then read that other paper calling for intentionally creating a new Middle East, you can see what they've always been trying to do. They just had to wait until they got a R in the WH and enough Rs in Congress.

I wouldn't have put it past him and his band of criminals, to expect the chaos that is happening including, that we and our allies like SA, Qatar and Kuwait ( I think is the other country) armed ISIS via Libya into Syria. Just as MEK has been used in Iran. Just as Brez funded the Mujahideen to pull Russian into Afghanistan which he later admitted to--even though it wasn't necessary as Russian was falling apart inside already by then.

Here's the Leeden article. He's a Cheney think-alike cohort.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...-to-save-islam
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