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Old 06-23-2014, 07:33 AM  
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
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Atheists called upon to explain their "injury" over WTC cross

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/21/ground-zero-cross/

Kind of interesting...

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A federal appeals court said this week that an atheist group trying to keep the so-called Ground Zero Cross out of the National September 11 Memorial Museum must better explain how displaying the artifact is “offensive” and violates members’ constitutional rights.

The 17-foot-tall, steel beam “cross” was found in the rubble of the World Trade Center twin towers in New York that fell during the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

The cross became a sort of shrine or place of comfort for first responders who often prayed there and left messages or flowers. It was moved away from the debris a few weeks later and became a tourist attraction through several years of reconstruction.

American Atheists filed the suit in 2011, which was thrown out last year by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York.

The appeals court ruling Thursday cites an amicus brief filed by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, a nonprofit law firm that specializes in church-state law and protecting the free expression of all religious traditions.

“We’re thrilled that the court picked up on this issue,” said group lawyer Eric Baxter, whose brief argued that American Atheists had no right to bring a lawsuit in the first place. “Courts should not allow people to sue just because they claim to get ‘dyspepsia’ over a historical artifact displayed in a museum.”

The museum officially opened on May 21.

The judge has now given the plaintiffs until July 14 to file supplemental legal briefs before deciding whether the case will proceed. Among the questions that must be answered in the new filings is how the offensiveness of the cross, which the plaintiffs view as a Christian symbol for all 9-11 victims, becomes a “constitutional injury.”

The other question is -- if the plaintiffs indeed feel displaying the cross “marginalizes them as American citizens” -- then how is that a “particular and concrete injury" compared to just “the abstract stigmatization of atheists generally.”

The judge has also asked the plaintiffs to substantiate their claim the museum and Sept. 11 memorial are getting taxpayer dollars.

“Taking personal offense is not an injury that warrants invoking the power of the courts to shut down everything you disagree with,” Baxter also said. “The Constitution is not a personal tool for censoring everyone’s beliefs but your own.”
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
[looks over scene of death and destruction where 2000+ were killed]

cries and sues about a cross.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:48 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
[looks over scene of death and destruction where 2000+ were killed]

[spots among the twisted metal a couple beams kind of forming a T]

"It makes me feel better knowing god was here"

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Old 06-25-2014, 08:57 AM   #33
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Imagine if the steel morphed into a 'hammer and sickle' ? Damn near all of NY and especially the 'NY Slimes' would be on their knees worshipping that symbol which by the way is 'their religion' no doubt
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:14 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Chistianity has lost. Its over its now just the countdown to obscurity.
No Dave you are lost and will be eternally lost forever unless you truly come to Christ.

Romans 14:11

In the end. For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"

Dave, did you catch that word 'every' ? Not just some but 'every' knee and tongue. Some will bend and confess in praise and acceptance of Christ as saved Christians going to heaven and some will bend and confess in bitter resentment, some in great regret ultimately rejecting Christ when it will be too late and be tossed into hell.

Which will it be Dave ? Don't let your ego toss you into hell my friend.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink View Post
No Dave you are lost and will be eternally lost forever unless you truly come to Christ.

Romans 14:11

In the end. For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"

Dave, did you catch that word 'every' ? Not just some but 'every' knee and tongue. Some will bend and confess in praise and acceptance of Christ as saved Christians going to heaven and some will bend and confess in bitter resentment, some in great regret ultimately rejecting Christ when it will be too late and be tossed into hell.

Which will it be Dave ? Don't let your ego toss you into hell my friend.
Hey, unlicensed therapist, why did you run away from your other thread?
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Dave is outraged by shapes. And father evolution.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:29 AM   #37
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
I was using “miffed” to intentionally understate what I thought would be the case. As in, when there was a request for a permit to build a Mosque close to ground zero, a few people seemed miffed. FWIW I wish there were far more cases decided along these lines. Everyone is too damn sensitive. I am going to have to order a Fighting Whities jersey one of these days because I think it is funny and the proceeds fund a good cause.
Mostly because I think it is funny
I'm thinking of some graphics to put on tee shirts. One's gonna be--"I'm a Pale Face!"
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:58 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I'm thinking of some graphics to put on tee shirts. One's gonna be--"I'm a Pale Face!"
I understand why some Native Americans dislike certain terms just like many other groups and I find idiots coming to my door to try and recruit me into their religion annoying. We just don't we need Government to sort out all this stuff for us. If I find a person offensive I don’t hang around them. If I dislike a company’s policy’s I don’t buy their stuff. If I don’t like a radio to TV station I turn the channel. It really isn’t a big deal. Now I don’t want Government promoting or discouraging any religion but they certainly don’t need to pretend they don’t exist.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:00 AM   #39
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
I understand why some Native Americans dislike certain terms just like many other groups and I find idiots coming to my door to try and recruit me into their religion annoying. We just don't we need Government to sort out all this stuff for us. If I find a person offensive I don’t hang around them. If I dislike a company’s policy’s I don’t buy their stuff. If I don’t like a radio to TV station I turn the channel. It really isn’t a big deal. Now I don’t want Government promoting or discouraging any religion but they certainly don’t need to pretend they don’t exist.
I agree.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Chistianity has lost. Its over its now just the countdown to obscurity.
Well, it's not lost just yet but if you keep converting the teeming masses like you did with the "Ted Cruz's fathers evolution comment" thread, it won't last much longer.

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Old 06-25-2014, 06:04 PM   #41
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It is not clear to me that those steel beams were a religious symbol. Some people may have interpreted it as a religious symbol, but it was not constructed or designed to be one. Anyway, for whatever reason, religious or otherwise, this "cross" became part of the 9/11 story, and omitting any mention of it would be odd no matter how you feel about religion.

If we were to presume as a basis for this debate that this cross is a religious symbol and that everyone agrees it is a religious symbol, then I might be more likely to agree with the atheists, but probably not since it is also part of 9/11 history, so it has a secular logical reason to be in a museum, for the same reason that stories about various religions can be told in history class in schools if the topic is what those religions were, and not preaching them as true.

A better argument would be nativity scenes on government property which we seem to fight about every winter.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:15 PM   #42
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The absence of a cross in atheist memorials offends me. I demand crosses be put up in all atheist memorials.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:57 PM   #43
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Dave Lane needs a symbol for his religion and the god he worships. I mean, a symbol other than his own mirror.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:14 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink View Post
No Dave you are lost and will be eternally lost forever unless you truly come to Christ.

Romans 14:11

In the end. For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"

Dave, did you catch that word 'every' ? Not just some but 'every' knee and tongue. Some will bend and confess in praise and acceptance of Christ as saved Christians going to heaven and some will bend and confess in bitter resentment, some in great regret ultimately rejecting Christ when it will be too late and be tossed into hell.

Which will it be Dave ? Don't let your ego toss you into hell my friend.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:29 AM   #45
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink View Post
No Dave you are lost and will be eternally lost forever unless you truly come to Christ.

Romans 14:11

In the end. For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"

Dave, did you catch that word 'every' ? Not just some but 'every' knee and tongue. Some will bend and confess in praise and acceptance of Christ as saved Christians going to heaven and some will bend and confess in bitter resentment, some in great regret ultimately rejecting Christ when it will be too late and be tossed into hell.

Which will it be Dave ? Don't let your ego toss you into hell my friend.
Don't get me wrong, I'm down with this. But quoting the Bible at Dave is absolutely futile since he thinks it's a fake anyway. Just sayin'...

Pray for him, and all atheists for that matter...but don't expect to penetrate the Christian hatred he has.
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