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Old 06-26-2014, 09:16 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The real reason Democrats push global warming. Campaign money

Environmentalist and Democrat mega-donor accused of hypocrisy

With his increasing visibility and political involvement, San Francisco environmentalist and mega-Democratic campaign donor Tom Steyer is making Democrats a rich target for hypocrisy, critics say.

Steyer has pledged $100 million this year to elect Democrats who are committed to fighting global warming and the Keystone XL pipeline.

He was in Washington Wednesday for private meetings at the White House and to promote his "Risky Business" project, which attempts to get American business to adapt to climate change.

In a previous meeting Tuesday in New York, Steyer told reporters, "We need to reward people whose behavior reduces climate risk and penalize people who add to it."

By that measure, Steyer himself might well be due for punishment. Critics say Steyer made his fortune, in part, from fossil fuels - the very energy source he now condemns - while he was a hedge fund manager at Farallon Capital Management, a firm he founded.

"This is somebody who really made his fortune largely investing in fossil fuels who now wants to close off the ability to use fossil fuels to a lot of other people who aren't as wealthy," said Phil Kerpen, president of the conservative political action committee American Commitment.

Earlier this month, The Washington Post reported, "Steyer said in 2012 that he was halting his 'ecologically unsound' investments, a review of his ties to the $20 billion hedge fund he led for two decades shows that he is only now becoming fully divested from energy firms linked to climate change."

Kerpen has produced online ads that attack Steyer and the Democratic candidates he is supporting in the upcoming midterm elections. One ad commences with a narrator's voice saying, "Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid is on the attack..." It then cuts to a sound bite of Reid on the Senate floor saying, "What is un-American is when shadowy billionaires pour unlimited money into our democracy to rig the system..."

It is a not so subtle jab at Reid's repeated references to the Koch Brothers - the Kansas libertarian billionaires who contribute mightily to conservative causes and candidates and who are regularly demonized by Reid and other Democrats.

Asked at Tuesday's press briefing whether he had any misgivings about Steyer's visit to the White House, given the prohibition against political activities there, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said, "I have no misgivings about the individuals who are participating in that meeting. Their political activities notwithstanding, the administration is committed to making progress in addressing the causes of climate change and reducing carbon pollution."

In April of 2013, President Obama, and Congressional Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Reid attended a fundraiser at Steyer's Bay area mansion. Kerpen said that shortly after that fundraiser, the entire Democratic party's messaging began to change.

"I think that's where the hardball really started," he said. "Because we saw a couple weeks after that the Democrats took to the Senate floor and spoke all night about climate change and Tom Steyer applauded them for that."

Some Democrats, especially those in tough re-election battles in energy rich states, are said to be fuming over the Steyer White House visit. One of them told the Washington Examiner, "If a Republican president did the same thing with the Koch brothers, we would skewer them."


Doug McKelway joined Fox News Channel (FNC) in November 2010 and serves as a Washington-based correspondent. Click here for more information on Doug McKelway.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...y-accusations/
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #106
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Ignoring the overwhelming evidence that humans don't have shit to do with it and 'scientists' keeping falsifying data to say otherwise, then fine - let's start cutting out these 'problem gases' and stop the cows from farting; they produce more methane and CO2 than humans do. That's the kind of dumb shit we get into when the corrupted agenda driven are joined by the bottom of their class individuals in pushing false issues in order to fund their existence and make people like Al Gore rich.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:41 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not fear mongering because I don't think it will ever happen. There's no reason to be fearful. But, just to see how important addressing climate change is to you, would you give up air conditioning and driving permanently if that's what someone in Washington DC decided needed to be done?

Barack Obama is committed to preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. I don't believe that one either.

Assuming that reduction of CO2 emissions is the key to fixing the alleged climate change problem, we're absolutely dependent on the rest of the world helping out. Our reductions only buy time as long as the rest of the world continues to increase their emissions.
Nobody will give up AC or driving permanently because DC would never reach that silly conclusion. It's neither necessary, nor feasible. It's a straw man solution that you know is unobtainable.

US reductions aren't dependent on anything. You act like no effort is worthy unless it's 100% from all players. But that's only because you're insisting on a "Fix" for the situation. There is no 100% "Fix". The US is the #2 polluter and we have the ability to change that. It's that simple. Our efforts aren't simply negated by other polluters.

Regardless, those other polluters have made incredible commitments already:

China will continue to step up its efforts to address climate change in a bid to achieve the target of reducing CO2 emissions per unit of GDP by 40 to 45 percent by 2020 from the 2005 levels

India to reduce carbon intensity by 24% by 2020

Which again, is more than the US has committed to.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:48 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not fear mongering because I don't think it will ever happen. There's no reason to be fearful. But, just to see how important addressing climate change is to you, would you give up air conditioning and driving permanently if that's what someone in Washington DC decided needed to be done?
If you were driving and had a flat tire would you junk your car and buy a new one or keep driving it that way? Just how important to you is it to have air in your tire?

This is essentially the level of question you are asking.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:19 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Nobody will give up AC or driving permanently because DC would never reach that silly conclusion. It's neither necessary, nor feasible. It's a straw man solution that you know is unobtainable.

US reductions aren't dependent on anything. You act like no effort is worthy unless it's 100% from all players. But that's only because you're insisting on a "Fix" for the situation. There is no 100% "Fix". The US is the #2 polluter and we have the ability to change that. It's that simple. Our efforts aren't simply negated by other polluters.

Regardless, those other polluters have made incredible commitments already:

China will continue to step up its efforts to address climate change in a bid to achieve the target of reducing CO2 emissions per unit of GDP by 40 to 45 percent by 2020 from the 2005 levels

India to reduce carbon intensity by 24% by 2020

Which again, is more than the US has committed to.
We have the ability to forgo air conditioning too, but you're not willing to do that.

The only thing that matters when it comes to adjusting manmade emissions into the global atmosphere is the total global emission level. Our emissions amount to something like 15% of those emissions. That means that at least 85% of the world's emissions are beyond our control and most of the emissions rates for the industrialized developing world are significantly greater than ours including China who already produces over 20% of the global budget and India who is coming up fast with 5% or so.* As long as that 85% are going to continue to use cheap fuel to build their standards of living, and who can blame them for that, the US can't stop global growth and can only work on that 15% to slow it.

I don't know what you're willing to sacrifice to work on that small slice of emissions (although you've already said you won't give up your A/C), but I'm not willing to sacrifice much without enough evidence of a problem that even the developing world is willing to carry their share of the load.

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* I'm rounding to these numbers based on memory and, if anything, I'm overstating the US contribution and understating both China's and India's.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:22 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
If you were driving and had a flat tire would you junk your car and buy a new one or keep driving it that way? Just how important to you is it to have air in your tire?

This is essentially the level of question you are asking.
If I've got a lemon of a car and all of it's systems are falling apart, I'm not going to pay big money to fix the transmission.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:27 PM   #111
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And as to the air conditioning/driving question, it's only an exaggeration of degree. Any increase in the cost of electricity or the cost of gas will put at least some people in the position of cutting back or eliminating their consumption of these things by necessity. You might be in a position where you can absorb some cost increases without impacting your convenience and comfort, but not everyone has it that good.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:32 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
If you were driving and had a flat tire would you junk your car and buy a new one or keep driving it that way? Just how important to you is it to have air in your tire?

This is essentially the level of question you are asking.
If you were on the Titanic would you rearrange the deck chairs to try and keep it from sinking because that's the level of solution you're offering.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:44 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We have the ability to forgo air conditioning too, but you're not willing to do that.

The only thing that matters when it comes to adjusting manmade emissions into the global atmosphere is the total global emission level. Our emissions amount to something like 15% of those emissions. That means that at least 85% of the world's emissions are beyond our control and most of the emissions rates for the industrialized developing world are significantly greater than ours including China who already produces over 20% of the global budget and India who is coming up fast with 5% or so.* As long as that 85% are going to continue to use cheap fuel to build their standards of living, and who can blame them for that, the US can't stop global growth and can only work on that 15% to slow it.

I don't know what you're willing to sacrifice to work on that small slice of emissions (although you've already said you won't give up your A/C), but I'm not willing to sacrifice much without enough evidence of a problem that even the developing world is willing to carry their share of the load.

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* I'm rounding to these numbers based on memory and, if anything, I'm overstating the US contribution and understating both China's and India's.
Nobody is asking people to stop AC use. Using the idea that individual posters won't commit to stopping their AC usage is the dumbest strawmen I've ever seen from you.

US carbon emissions are greater than the output of the entire European Union. 15% is not insignificant in the slightest. That's nearly triple the output of India, the 3rd largest carbon polluter, at just 6%. US contributions would have a huge effect. And you're still disregarding the fact that those other contributors have already made commitments to drastically reduce emissions. China has committed at least a 40% reduction by 2020. Your excuse is dependent on nobody else reducing emissions, but that's clearly not the case.
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:00 PM   #114
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eh, the poor have it easy, no need to worry about climate change...

we don't want to give up our electric toothbrushes so to hell with the world, who needs it anyway?

we have our electric toothbrushes and nobody's gonna take 'em away from us!!!
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:00 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Nobody is asking people to stop AC use. Using the idea that individual posters won't commit to stopping their AC usage is the dumbest strawmen I've ever seen from you.
I'm asking. You're not answering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
US carbon emissions are greater than the output of the entire European Union. 15% is not insignificant in the slightest. That's nearly triple the output of India, the 3rd largest carbon polluter, at just 6%. US contributions would have a huge effect. And you're still disregarding the fact that those other contributors have already made commitments to drastically reduce emissions. China has committed at least a 40% reduction by 2020. Your excuse is dependent on nobody else reducing emissions, but that's clearly not the case.
15% is a lot less than 85%.

None of those other contributors have made a commitment to reduce emissions, as I've already explained.
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:02 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
eh, the poor have it easy, no need to worry about climate change...

we don't want to give up our electric toothbrushes so to hell with the world, who needs it anyway?

we have our electric toothbrushes and nobody's gonna take 'em away from us!!!
By the time some of these people get through, this will no longer be true:

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Old 07-02-2014, 04:14 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
If you were driving and had a flat tire would you junk your car and buy a new one or keep driving it that way? Just how important to you is it to have air in your tire?

This is essentially the level of question you are asking.
Say you pay $250@mo for electricity, would you be willing to pay $600@mo to continue to air condition when the nearest coal fired plant closes?
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:15 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm asking. You're not answering.

15% is a lot less than 85%.

None of those other contributors have made a commitment to reduce emissions, as I've already explained.
Most of those other contributors have made commitments.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/07/143302...climate-change

http://www.nrdc.org/international/copenhagenaccords/

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...-gas-emissions

http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/g-gas/index_en.htm
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #119
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From your very first link:

Quote:
China hasn't made any pledges to reduce its carbon emissions
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:32 PM   #120
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I know, why don't we outsource all of our manufacturing to China and make them lower emissions?
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