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Old 06-30-2014, 09:31 AM  
Chocolate Hog Chocolate Hog is offline
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Court rules in favor of Hobby Lobby

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/30/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:04 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
The thing I hate about the supreme court is that there should never be a divide. It's either the a violation of the constitution or its not. There should be no divide based on what side of the isle you or on. On split decisions, it devalues the faith that people have in the process IMO.

SC decisions were very frequently unanimous early in the country's history. The court worked very, very hard to try to be unanimous on rulings.

That started unravelling by the Civil War era, and really went to hell by the time of the New Deal.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:04 PM   #137
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For me, the worrying aspect about this ruling is that it was 5-4 and not unanimous. It was a pretty open and shut decision that had very little nuance IMO. To think that there are 4 constitutional 'scholars' on the highest court in the land that don't see this is pretty frightening.

The exchange between a CNN reporter and the plantiff's attorney outside the court house after the ruling was precious:

CNN: We heard the demonstrators today saying, “Look, the employers should stay out of our business,” that this decision will now essentially bring the employer into what should be a very private decision-making process between a woman and her doctor, now that the justices ruled that Hobby Lobby no longer has to cover four types of contraception. What do you have to say to the other side?

WINDHAM: Hobby Lobby would love to stay out of this, and leave this decision to a woman and her doctor. It’s the federal government that told them that they had to be involved and cover these things, even though they violated the Green family’s faith.


Exactly right.
Yup! Sure shows the humongous disconnect by leftists.
That's something Loneiguana would say.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:05 PM   #138
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Only when they are the ones making the choices.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:06 PM   #139
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Nothing. The point is, the government shouldn't be forcing companies to do anything. If a company can get employees to work for them without providing insurance, more power to them. The employees can get their own insurance. If they don't like it, work somewhere else. If the company folds because nobody wants to work for them, tough shit. But the government shouldn't be forcing anybody to be doing anything. That's kinda what the Constitution was getting at. But that's a tough ****ing sell in this gimme dat world.
Just goes to show how the welfare state encroaches of given liberties.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:12 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
The thing I hate about the supreme court is that there should never be a divide. It's either the a violation of the constitution or its not. There should be no divide based on what side of the isle you or on. On split decisions, it devalues the faith that people have in the process IMO.
Like it is just that easy. It was written 200+ years ago and needs to be applied to situations the writers never could have dreamed of. Strict adherence to some of the 1st Am principles was impossible right from the get-go.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:16 PM   #141
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Who goes to Hobby Lobby anyway?
Bigoteyed pea and blaise.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:18 PM   #142
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I don't know anywhere the owner said he didn't like gays. He was just pro-traditional marriage and not pro-gay marriage. There is a difference. You lefties use Alinsky'ish accusations that it means a pro-traditional marriage equates to being anti-gay. Christians believe in loving what they consider sinners but hate the sin.





Anyhow, last I heard the owner wants to break into states in the Northeast more, like Massachusetts, and has been mollifying his position on it. That's smart marketing as those states are liberal. That's what I call the market working--not some politically organized boycott that attempts to extort a change in position.

Giving money to "cure the gay" camps is anti-gay.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:22 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Like it is just that easy. It was written 200+ years ago and needs to be applied to situations the writers never could have dreamed of. Strict adherence to some of the 1st Am principles was impossible right from the get-go.
It shouldn't be public on how they all voted then. They should release it not as a 5-4 decision or a 9-0 etc but just say SCOTUS rules this way or that way so it at least gives an appearance of unity. It's pretty clear that politics have invaded SCOTUS and maybe that's always how it's been, but it's pretty evident now. What might be constitutional today might not be constitutional tomorrow depending on which political beliefs the majority opinion have.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:26 PM   #144
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So now I've had a few hours to read about it, and I don't think this is the crushing defeat that my liberal friends on Facebook seem to believe it is. The case is regarding a privately-owned companies with an existing religious belief system, and they were already providing coverage for many kinds of contraceptives beforehand. As the Court pointed out, there are alternatives for birth control, so it's not like the Supreme Court just allowed any company to outlaw contraceptives to its employees across the board.

However, I am not crazy about the precedent it sets, mostly because I know there are lawyers and businessmen out there sharpening their teeth at this very moment. Someone will get the idea of demanding the same latitude for a publicly traded company, or to get out of safety regulations or fair trade or maybe even paying taxes at all, using this case as a basis, and when they do, it almost certainly won't make the papers.

But, that's several extensions down the line. For this by itself, I'm not worried.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:41 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
So now I've had a few hours to read about it, and I don't think this is the crushing defeat that my liberal friends on Facebook seem to believe it is. The case is regarding a privately-owned companies with an existing religious belief system, and they were already providing coverage for many kinds of contraceptives beforehand. As the Court pointed out, there are alternatives for birth control, so it's not like the Supreme Court just allowed any company to outlaw contraceptives to its employees across the board.

However, I am not crazy about the precedent it sets, mostly because I know there are lawyers and businessmen out there sharpening their teeth at this very moment. Someone will get the idea of demanding the same latitude for a publicly traded company, or to get out of safety regulations or fair trade or maybe even paying taxes at all, using this case as a basis, and when they do, it almost certainly won't make the papers.

But, that's several extensions down the line. For this by itself, I'm not worried.
When the people who scoff at slippery slope arguments give you a hard time, don't sweat it because you're right to be concerned. It might or might not work, but you can bet that the push will be on to expand this narrow ruling.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:46 PM   #146
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Is the "morning after pill" really a contraceptive?
No. Which is why I will still buy random household crap for 75% off. And holiday decorations. Oooh and picture frames. And birthday gifts for people I don't really care about. And that's about it.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:48 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Katipan View Post
No. Which is why I will still buy random household crap for 75% off. And holiday decorations. Oooh and picture frames. And birthday gifts for people I don't really care about. And that's about it.
I can see why those might be considered contraceptives.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:57 PM   #148
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:02 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't know anywhere the owner said he didn't like gays. He was just pro-traditional marriage and not pro-gay marriage. There is a difference. You lefties use Alinsky'ish accusations that it means a pro-traditional marriage equates to being anti-gay. Christians believe in loving what they consider sinners but hate the sin.


Anyhow, last I heard the owner wants to break into states in the Northeast more, like Massachusetts, and has been mollifying his position on it. That's smart marketing as those states are liberal. That's what I call the market working--not some politically organized boycott that attempts to extort a change in position.
No, that's what christians say. I have my doubts about them believing it, because it's rarely displayed.

I've never seen it in action. It's more of a catch phrase than anything meaningful.
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:17 PM   #150
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Prog Media mouthpieces are going nuts…This from old Nina Toteyourownbags on NPR…

NPR’s Nina Totenberg On Hobby Lobby Ruling: Supreme Court Probably Legalized Homophobia, Xenophobia, Racism…

Yikes!!!
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