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Old 07-12-2014, 04:11 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Perry: Paul 'isolationist policies' are 'curiously blind,' 'wrong'

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ong/?hpt=hp_t2

(CNN) – "Curiously blind" and "wrong."

Is Rick Perry previewing harsh political attacks against Rand Paul should the two potential 2016 presidential candidates square off in a debate over foreign policy?

The Republican governor of Texas used those and other choice words against the Kentucky Republican senator in a Friday opinion piece that singularly trained political fire on Paul, by name, among Republicans.

Firing back, an adviser for Paul said Perry is "mischaracterizing Senator Paul's foreign policy."

At issue: Paul's ideological preference for the United States to avoid engaging in many hotspots across the world. Critics, such as Perry, liken it to outright isolationism.

"As a veteran, and as a governor who has supported Texas National Guard deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, I can understand the emotions behind isolationism. Many people are tired of war, and the urge to pull back is a natural, human reaction," Perry began his piece in the Washington Post. "Unfortunately, we live in a world where isolationist policies would only endanger our national security even further."

"That's why it's disheartening to hear fellow Republicans, such as Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.), suggest that our nation should ignore what's happening in Iraq."

A few weeks ago, during an interview with CNN Chief Political Correspondent Candy Crowley, Paul said: "I'm not willing to send my son into that mess."

"Let's not be involved in the Iraq civil war," Paul said, referring to weeks of violence across that country. Radical Sunni militants have battled Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Shiite government forces. The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, has not only gained ground in northern and western Iraq but also in Syria.

Perry took Paul's sentiments to task.

Noting "the main problem with this argument is that it means ignoring the profound threat that the group now calling itself the Islamic State poses to the United States and the world," the governor wrote. ". …This represents a real threat to our national security — to which Paul seems curiously blind — because any of these passport carriers can simply buy a plane ticket and show up in the United States without even a visa."

Perry then picked apart an opinion piece Paul recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal arguing against U.S. military intervention in Iraq.

Writing that Paul went "so far as to claim…that President Ronald Reagan's own doctrines would lead him to same conclusion," Perry said, "his analysis is wrong. Paul conveniently omitted Reagan's long internationalist record of leading the world with moral and strategic clarity."

And in perhaps one of his harshest critiques, Perry lumped Paul together with a favored political enemy of conservatives: President Barack Obama.

"Viewed together, Obama's policies have certainly led us to this dangerous point in Iraq and Syria, but Paul's brand of isolationism (or whatever term he prefers) would compound the threat of terrorism even further," Perry said.

Paul's team shot back at Perry's harsh criticism with stinging words of its own.

"60,000 children just invaded Texas, and their Governor has time to write an op ed in a Washington newspaper mischaracterizing Senator Paul's foreign policy," adviser Doug Stafford said in a statement to CNN, referring to the flood of unaccompanied children from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala surging into the United States along the southern border. "Perhaps he should concentrate on the invasion of his Southern border."

Perry and Paul each are considering a 2016 presidential run. It would be Perry's second run.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:59 AM   #46
DJJasonp DJJasonp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I suppose that he is referring to the allegations that CIA trained Osama bin Laden and other men who later formed al Qaeda. If that is the case, it isn't accurate at all.

It makes good fodder for the isolationists, though.
It's (for obvious reason) denied by the CIA and other american agencies and politicians alike, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen.

Many foreign governments have made that same claim.

NSA head Brezinksi met with the mujahideen in '79 (including Bin Laden), to support their efforts in Afghanistan against the Russians.

Robin Cook (former british foreign secretary):

In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Cook

(cook is not the only one, but just one example)
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:08 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJasonp View Post
It's (for obvious reason) denied by the CIA and other american agencies and politicians alike, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen.

Many foreign governments have made that same claim.

NSA head Brezinksi met with the mujahideen in '79 (including Bin Laden), to support their efforts in Afghanistan against the Russians.

Robin Cook (former british foreign secretary):

In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Cook

(cook is not the only one, but just one example)
Did bin laden fight as a mujahideen in Afghanistan? Yes. Did we assist the mujahideen in Afghanistan? Yes.

Beyond that, it's just speculation. But, the facts don't support this: "such as the CIA not training most of their leaders, could have prevented that..."
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:13 AM   #48
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Please run Rick. He's going to find out a second time that his bullshit won't fly outside of wingnut Texas and it will be high comedy to watch
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:22 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Did bin laden fight as a mujahideen in Afghanistan? Yes. Did we assist the mujahideen in Afghanistan? Yes.

Beyond that, it's just speculation. But, the facts don't support this: "such as the CIA not training most of their leaders, could have prevented that..."
Yeah, I'm sure their foreign secretary wasn't nearly as well informed as you are.

It doesn't matter what people say or show guys like you and Pat. You have this myopic belief that everything America is just and righteous, as if it was ordained by your god.

Al Qaeda is a direct result of western meddling.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:43 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Yeah, I'm sure their foreign secretary wasn't nearly as well informed as you are.

It doesn't matter what people say or show guys like you and Pat. You have this myopic belief that everything America is just and righteous, as if it was ordained by your god.
What makes you think that a British Foreign Minister knew what CIA was or was not specifically doing in Afghanistan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Al Qaeda is a direct result of western meddling
Interesting take, but one could just as easily say that al Qaeda is a direct result of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

I take it you think we should have not assisted the mujaheddin?
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Why do you NeoCons always deflect this war intervention stuff by comparing things to Japan. We're always back in WWII, because it was the "good war." It's not comparable because AQ did not have a nation to command with a vast war machine. Furthermore, it's more of a get the 'eff out of our lands blowback attack than anything. You should read BL's fatwah. He said why he declared war on us back in the 90's.

AQ is actually winning because of how the WoT is being conducted. His act was designed to inflame the Muslim world.

What some are referring to in this thread, is our leaving bases on Saudi Arabian Holy Lands and others all built during the 90's after PGW1, which was the thing that broke the camels back for Bin Laden. Are you really this misinformed?

How would you like foreign bases built here?
Because a lot of things people like you say you believe in prove inconsistent when compared to those same people's views on WWII, that's why.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:50 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Yeah, I'm sure their foreign secretary wasn't nearly as well informed as you are.

It doesn't matter what people say or show guys like you and Pat. You have this myopic belief that everything America is just and righteous, as if it was ordained by your god.

Al Qaeda is a direct result of western meddling.
You need a tinfoil hat. Or maybe just a little better history education.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:53 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Because a lot of things people like you say you believe in prove inconsistent when compared to those same people's views on WWII, that's why.
She claims that she supported the Cold War. I'll admit that I'm curious as to why.
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:11 PM   #54
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She claims that she supported the Cold War. I'll admit that I'm curious as to why.
Yeah, the only thing I can think of is that she recognizes a true threat in the international communist revolution of the 20th century, but not in the international islamist revolution of our current era.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:56 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJasonp View Post
It's (for obvious reason) denied by the CIA and other american agencies and politicians alike, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen.

Many foreign governments have made that same claim.

NSA head Brezinksi met with the mujahideen in '79 (including Bin Laden), to support their efforts in Afghanistan against the Russians.

Robin Cook (former british foreign secretary):

In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Cook

(cook is not the only one, but just one example)
Brez openly admits it. There was a picture of him with BL from way too.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Because a lot of things people like you say you believe in prove inconsistent when compared to those same people's views on WWII, that's why.
That is TOTAL bullshit. It isn't at all why he brought it up if you followed the thread. Especially since he said that to another poster. WWII is ALWAYS brought up by NeoCons, in articles and on TV without me being there. It is brought up precisely because it was the "good war."

Your attempt to link me to that comment is a deflection—to take the attention off the topic.

Let's look at the differences of that good war.
It ended in 4 years. It began with a formal DECLARATION of WAR providing a clear start and end. Objectives were achieved. So it is viewed as a success. Since, wars like that have begun with a formal declaration of war, unlike our interventions which are police actions, go much better. They have a clear objective and purpose so they are winnable and result in an END.

Also...

There is no doubt that Germany declared war on us—so it is NOT the SAME.
There is NO doubt that Japan, despite some complicity by FDR, attacked which is NOT the SAME as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran and the current Russia. BL had NO army. That and Al Qaeda is not a nation and is waging a guerrilla war. Ya' know the kind that have historically beaten superpowers in the past? Like our own?

It's been a long parade of who is the latest "Hitler" for regime change to make the world safe for democracy to justify another offensive war. This is activist govt and NOT defense. It is offense. WWII was defense. It is propaganda using classic positioning technique used in advertising to compare something positive to something new to make it acceptable.

The FACTS of the matter though, show that our interventions have had a mixed results. And we can't just transfer or compare wars mainly among western nations to a culture like the Mid East. The people are too different. Not everyone wants a democracy or to live under our laws. It is also just NOT true that democracies don't attack others. Look at what we've been doing. I only say that because people think we're a democracy. We
are certainly no longer a republic.

Oh, there's nothing inconsistent about my views on WWII vs the Cold War. Tho' it doesn't mean I'd have supported every intervention. I have always posted that Japan still attacked, so we then had a right to fight back. That doesn't mean there aren't omissions in the narrative. Afterall, wars are written by the winners and history is more often a pack of lies, agreed upon. It's no different anywhere.

YOU and Donger ARE CLASSIC textbook warmongers, as is every died-in-the-wool NeoConservative is. That is their ideology. Notice how it rhymes with Donger.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:22 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
She claims that she supported the Cold War. I'll admit that I'm curious as to why.
Go read my posts on that in this forum then. Because this is now going off topic to deflect off the topic and onto a poster. It's not about me. I want to know why you always compare these wars to WWII, and you are avoiding it.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Go read my posts on that in this forum then. Because this is now going off topic to deflect off the topic and onto a poster. It's not about me. I want to know why you always compare these wars to WWII, and you are avoiding it.
Perhaps you should read this thread. I already answered that question.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:39 PM   #59
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You answered my question about me for me?

Yeah, I didn't see it because I came in from the back of the thread and moved forward when I replied to what I saw first.

Nevertheless, my views on the Cold War were stated here pretty much before often enough.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:41 PM   #60
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Ah, okay I just went back more into the thread and no you didn't answer the question you posted in your post #53. You said you were curious about why I supported the Cold War.

So you need to pop "Cod War" and my name into the search. It was stated.
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