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Old 07-17-2014, 02:58 PM  
ChiefsandO'sfan ChiefsandO'sfan is offline
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Israel launches ground operation into Gaza

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/...html?hpt=hp_t2



Gaza City (CNN) -- [Breaking news update,Thursday, 3:50 p.m.]
The Israel Defense Forces initiated a ground operation into Gaza late Thursday following 10 days of bombings and airstrikes, the Israeli government said.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:11 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That's not the argument you committed yourself earlier in the thread.

You argued that not committing genocide requires tremendous restraint.
Yes it is. Not unleashing the full power of the IDF is showing restraint.

Look, you might be the only person on the planet who thinks that Israel isn't showing restraint. Even Palestinians.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:17 PM   #182
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by KC Dan View Post
Who? Hamas? Israel agreed to the two cease fires, Hamas didn't.
Ceasefires honestly don't mean shit to either side. Hamas and Israel both have long histories of breaking ceasefires.

A ceasefire isn't a solution. It's a bandaid that'll come off the next time either Hamas or the IDF get itchy.

The two state agreement is the solution.

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Hamas will not recognize Israel's right to exist. That HAS to be a non-starter in any negotiation. How do you negotiate with someone that from the get-go believes that you do not have the right to exist?
Negotiating with Hamas is necessarily going to be difficult, a long-term prospect, that will involve many steps along the way.

You can negotiate with Hamas, because Israel has done so before with some success. It's just hard to make sustained success because both sides lack the discipline -- Hamas wants to impress a radicalized Palestinian population by looking like they'll fight the Isrealis coming to take their land, and Netanyahu's Likud wants to take their land.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:18 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes it is. Not unleashing the full power of the IDF is showing restraint.

Look, you might be the only person on the planet who thinks that Israel isn't showing restraint. Even Palestinians.
Do you believe that not committing genocide takes tremendous restraint?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:19 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Israel wants to take their land.
What land are you talking about? Gaza?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:20 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Do you believe that not committing genocide takes tremendous restraint?
Do you believe that Israel is not showing restraint?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:21 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What land are you talking about? Gaza?
I edited that, by the way, subbing in the Likud's name instead of Israel. There is a left in Israel that wants a two-state solution.

The Greater Israel ultimately wants to recreate King David's Israel. That will be all of Israel, including the parts now habitated by Palestinians, and part of Jordan.

It's not clear how much of that is feasible at this point in history. But they can eventually grind Gaza and the West Bank down with little problem.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:22 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Do you believe that Israel is not showing restraint?
I do not. Because I do not consider refusing to commit genocide or rampantly killing innocents as real restraint.

Now answer my question. Because all this coyness is really wearing me down.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:22 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I edited that, by the way, subbing in the Likud's name instead of Israel. There is a left in Israel that wants a two-state solution.

The Greater Israel ultimately wants to recreate King David's Israel. That will be all of Israel, including the parts now habitated by Palestinians, and part of Jordan.

It's not clear how much of that is feasible at this point in history. But they can eventually grind Gaza and the West Bank down with little problem.
You realize that you are getting a little kooky on this, right? Or maybe you always have been and I've not noticed until now.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:24 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
You realize that you are getting a little kooky on this, right? Or maybe you always have been and I've not noticed until now.
I assume you're pleading ignorance as to what Greater Israel is.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:26 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I do not. Because I do not consider refusing to commit genocide or rampantly killing innocents as real restraint.
You are one weird person. Like I said, you may be the only person to think that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Now answer my question. Because all this coyness is really wearing me down.
What question?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:27 PM   #191
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I assume you're pleading ignorance as to what Greater Israel is.
You assume wrong.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:27 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What question?
Do you believe that not committing genocide takes tremendous restraint?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:28 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
You assume wrong.
I fail to see where we disagree, then.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:29 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Negotiating with Hamas is necessarily going to be difficult, a long-term prospect, that will involve many steps along the way.

You can negotiate with Hamas, because Israel has done so before with some success. It's just hard to make sustained success because both sides lack the discipline -- Hamas wants to impress a radicalized Palestinian population by looking like they'll fight the Isrealis coming to take their land, and Netanyahu's Likud wants to take their land.
Sorry but if one side refuses your right to exist on Planet Earth, there is no negotiating with them. Only 100% giving in to them until they accomplish their stated goal of ridding the planet of you. You are a bit blinded thinking that they will ever give in to Israel's right to exist. At least with Hamas there
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by KC Dan View Post
Sorry but if one side refuses your right to exist on Planet Earth, there is no negotiating with them.
Israel themselves have proven this wrong. Israel has negotiated with Hamas in the past, and some positive results came from those negotiations.

Sadly, those positive results were only temporary, as both sides gave into their greater demons.
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