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Old 07-26-2014, 07:05 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Just Don't Call it "Class Warfare."

Because you already lost:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/bu...=top-news&_r=1

Economic inequality in the United States has been receiving a lot of attention. But it’s not merely an issue of the rich getting richer. The typical American household has been getting poorer, too.

The inflation-adjusted net worth for the typical household was $87,992 in 2003. Ten years later, it was only $56,335, or a 36 percent decline, according to a study financed by the Russell Sage Foundation. Those are the figures for a household at the median point in the wealth distribution — the level at which there are an equal number of households whose worth is higher and lower. But during the same period, the net worth of wealthy households increased substantially.

The Russell Sage study also examined net worth at the 95th percentile. (For households at that level, 94 percent of the population had less wealth and 4 percent had more.) It found that for this well-do-do slice of the population, household net worth increased 14 percent over the same 10 years. Other research, by economists like Edward Wolff at New York University, has shown even greater gains in wealth for the richest 1 percent of households.

For households at the median level of net worth, much of the damage has occurred since the start of the last recession in 2007. Until then, net worth had been rising for the typical household, although at a slower pace than for households in higher wealth brackets. But much of the gain for many typical households came from the rising value of their homes. Exclude that housing wealth and the picture is worse: Median net worth began to decline even earlier.

“The housing bubble basically hid a trend of declining financial wealth at the median that began in 2001,” said Fabian T. Pfeffer, the University of Michigan professor who is lead author of the Russell Sage Foundation study.

The reasons for these declines are complex and controversial, but one point seems clear: When only a few people are winning and more than half the population is losing, surely something is amiss.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:38 PM   #31
Mr. Kotter Mr. Kotter is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
That you are duped by propaganda from a blog...on a partisan website, is no surprise. That you would think other thinkers would allow themselves to be similarly duped....is surprising. Even for you.

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Old 07-28-2014, 05:39 AM   #32
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Enlighten those who are duped.

Kotter. From the blog/unholynotgoodenough source:

"Then there is the matter of demand. Or, lack of it. According to Andrew Coulson at the Cato Institute, since 1970 the public school workforce has roughly doubled from 3.3 million to 6.4 million (predominately teachers), while over the same period the enrollment of children rose by only 8.5 percent – or a rate that was 11 times slower. Recently, the National Council on Teacher Quality found that schools are training twice as many K-5 elementary school teachers as they need every year."


Key questions....

Demand and Supply. Should we be creating this many educators if they face low pay as a result of too many teachers?

Has the quality of education improved in the time period 1970 to present with this flood of personnel in the schools?

Unions benefit from membership. Do teachers benefit from Unions? Teacher pay seems to be an issue with those who feel underpaid and unappreciated. Yet they continue to subscribe to a system that establishes pay for all with no ability to reward the best with high pay and to remove the low producers from the system. Cranking out more teachers empowers unions not teachers.


Every teacher is the same, they are all average, they shouldn't have pay scales that reward performance and performance should not be measured as it creates stress among those who fall into the lower tiers. That is basically the educators delima. You want pay, benefits, respect, love, adulation...but you don't want objectives, goals, measurements and performance monitoring. In other words you want to be free to do as you please and be protected by the union and leave education out of it. Cool deal.



"So if teachers believe they aren’t making what they’re worth, and they may well be right about that, let’s free them from union constraints and let them find out what the job market has to offer. Until then we can’t really know. Because a bachelor’s degree isn’t a dispensation from the vagaries of economic reality. And teaching isn’t the first step towards sainthood. Regardless of what you’ve heard."


Poor baby. Have a nice day in the salt mine.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:16 PM   #33
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If you believe half of what you wrote in your previous post, you are truly one of the most willfully ignorant mother truckers I have ever encountered in my entire life. Seriously…

1. Cato’s “study” if flawed, and otherwise FOS…if you don’t believe me, check with the superintendents of most school districts across the nation who do not have adequate qualified applicants….and either have to settle for sub-standard applicants, OR have to bend rules and create exemptions and waivers to fill positions they cannot otherwise fill.

2. Most of any increases in staffing have been the result of the demands placed on education to provide services to Special Education, Immigrant, and ELL students who require a much lower ratio of teacher to student numbers than “regular” Ed students—who, 30-40 years ago made up 90-95% of all students, but now constitute about half or less of all students today. Thus, more teachers are REQUIRED BY LAW on average for high maintenance, and “needy” students who were basically ignored for the first three centuries of American public education.

3. “Market forces” in education? Are you friggin’ serious…? Reduced to its simplest form—how can you apply market principles in an “industry” that cannot control quality of “material,” the conditions of “production,” of any of the other variables that corporations CAN control? Not to mention, how do you evaluate teachers in different classrooms, in different environments, with completely different students and demographics….with some standard formula for evaluation? Are you really that dumb?

4. Low pay is the result of the refusal of states and taxpayers to fund education at the levels which they have, by law, demanded that students be educated. It is a result of spreading more “revenues” over a larger number of employees….who are expected to serve students in a much less, economically, “efficient” model (schools have been required to add, when corporations can “down-size”)—but a model that state and federal laws demand to meet the needs of “individual students,” and not an “averages” over the entire student population—and by selectively ignoring or “excluding” students that have a negative impact on “productivity.” NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND…but the public refuses to pay for it. Period.

5. Performance based pay sounds good, but evaluations of teachers in such a myriad of circumstances…are incredibly elusive, if not impossible. Measuring different teachers in different circumstances, given different resources….and “raw” materials is a real challenge. Not to mention, talk about undermining cooperation and collaboration….the foundation to successful education. WHY would teachers willing hand over their successful strategies and techniques, and lesson plans….to colleagues that could “steal” their ideas and deprive them of additional pay? Seriously?

You cannot possibly be this dumb. I’ll just assume you accept the propaganda, and refuse to think for yourself. No surprise there….
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:27 PM   #34
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Are some teachers better than others?
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:02 PM   #35
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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I don't have a problem with teacher's pay. I think they should do hero's work and should be compensated well. What I do have a problem is with how they are impossible to fire in many large urban districts.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Are some teachers better than others?
Of course. The problem is developing a fair way to measure such disparate variables, conditions, and "performance" by both students and teachers...without entirely undermining the climate of collegiality, cooperation, and collaboration that is required to achieve maximum results for a particular population of students.

"Competition" between teaching professionals would entirely erode, undermine, and diminish any and all attempts to promote education for all--"no child left behind" would become a mere pipe-dream.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:18 PM   #37
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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I don't have a problem with teacher's pay. I think they should do hero's work and should be compensated well. What I do have a problem is with how they are impossible to fire in many large urban districts.

Good teachers are horribly underpaid.

But the suck teachers outnumber them to such a degree that the hope of ever compensating the top 20% or 50% better than the bottom is impossible. The suck teachers who fear being measured against a standard or against each other get all the credit. Everybody is average and equal.

Sort of describes why teachers are so big in the fail in life department. Parents can make up the difference at home and need to.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:48 PM   #38
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:14 PM   #39
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Of course.
OK, so how do you determine some are better than others since you clearly recognize and admit that all teachers are not equal ?
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:26 PM   #40
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OK, so how do you determine some are better than others since you clearly recognize and admit that all teachers are not equal ?
It's entirely subjective...which is why it is next to impossible to really determine....duh.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:29 PM   #41
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And I bet most of the conservative dolts on this board don't even know the House GOP voted for a unfunded 287 billion, yes billion, corporate tax cut the other day. (All while complaining about debt and the amount of money Obama wants to address the border of course)
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Oh, can I take this one?

Maybe. A 1929-style crash at least, if nothing changes, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the pitchforks and torches came out within our lifetimes.
When Bush left office - Nat'l debt = 5 trillion
Obama to present time - Nat'l debt = 18 trillion - Barry has spent 12 trillion

Gas 1.67 in 08 when Barry was elected
Currently 3.60 gal

Gal of milk in 08 was 2.25
Currently 4.00

Food has gone up 40-60 % overall

Household Utilities up 30-35% on average.

Median Household income has gone down every year since Barry took office.

Barry "Community Organizes the World" allowing:
1) Missiles to be dismantled in Poland
2) Fast and Furious gun running to the drug cartel
3) Playing footsie with Iran.
4) Syrian phony red line
5) Benghazi train wreck cover up- 4 of our own allowed to be murdered for re-election purposes as WH watches them live being killed ordering the 'stand down'.
6) Putin's bitch on the Ukraine situation among everything else involving Russia globally.
7) Manufacturing this Int'l Community Organizing March of Illegal Central Americans to our borders.
8) you fill in the rest, I know I have missed quite a bit

And yet Lone(a la Jenson) and Aries for Barry.

To be fair to Aries I know he is not pleased with Barry's foreign policy but the domestic economy i.e to income,gas,utilities and food prices are inexcusable and yet Barry has a done a good job ?
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:39 PM   #42
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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It's entirely subjective...which is why it is next to impossible to really determine....duh.
Are you better or worse than those in your department? Where do you fall in your ranking of your departmental peers?
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:17 PM   #43
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Obama says 'Much More' Can Be Done for Middle Class, he's had 6 years and the stats for the middle class keep going downward.
Marxists have always wanted to destroy the middle-class and this is exactly what Obama, in conjunction with his pals the Federal Reserve. is been doing. It's his plan to transform America—> making the middle-class more dependent on govt. Hope to the rescue. Change you can believe in.

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:20 PM   #44
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Household Utilities up 30-35% on average.
Well, that is a promise he did keep. Gotta give him credit for that.
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