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Old 07-27-2014, 03:14 PM  
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Arguing in this forum really is futile

Published study: pointing out factual errors in people's beliefs may actually make them MORE likely to continue believing

Quote:
In a 2010 study, Nyhan and Reifler asked people to read a fake newspaper article containing a real quotation of George W. Bush, in which the former president asserted that his tax cuts "helped increase revenues to the Treasury." In some versions of the article, this false claim was then debunked by economic evidence: A correction appended to the end of the article stated that in fact, the Bush tax cuts "were followed by an unprecedented three-year decline in nominal tax revenues, from $2 trillion in 2000 to $1.8 trillion in 2003." The study found that conservatives who read the correction were twice as likely to believe Bush's claim was true as were conservatives who did not read the correction.

...

Another notorious political falsehood is Sarah Palin's claim that Obamacare would create "death panels." To test whether they could undo the damage caused by this highly influential morsel of misinformation, Nyhan and his colleagues had study subjects read an article about the "death panels" claim, which in some cases ended with a factual correction explaining that "nonpartisan health care experts have concluded that Palin is wrong." Among survey respondents who were very pro-Palin and who had a high level of political knowledge, the correction actually made them more likely to wrongly embrace the false "death panels" theory.

...

Together, all of these studies support the theory of "motivated reasoning": The idea that our prior beliefs, commitments, and emotions drive our responses to new information, such that when we are faced with facts that deeply challenge these commitments, we fight back against them to defend our identities. So next time you feel the urge to argue back against some idiot on the internet…pause, take a deep breath, and realize not only that arguing might not do any good, but that in fact, it might very well backfire.
The bold part really rings true with me. I've been arguing politics online for a long time. I've come to the conclusion that people's political positions are 90% or more generated by nothing more than tribally identifying with one side. Of course no one thinks about themselves like that. We all think we're freethinkers who form our opinions independently based on a wide range of available objective sources. Furthermore I think this polarization is getting stronger and stronger every day with the advent of the Internet and endless sources of partisan news delivery.

I'm sure this happens on both sides. I have about half a dozen ultraliberal friends on my Facebook feed who think that Palestinians can do no wrong, and Israel can do no right. They also tend to be the same people who post about GMO and got super worked up about Trayvon Martin, like it was some seminal moment in history. Although I admit I don't know anyone stupid enough to be anti-vaccine. Or at least they don't admit it.

I think Carl Sagan can say it a lot better than me:




Last edited by suzzer99; 07-27-2014 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:27 PM   #16
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Well if reality isn't going to change people's minds, how is the opinions of others supposed to do that?
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
Where did Sagan say that? Surely you aren't lying yet again.
I believe he is talking about Dave Lane as the rodeo clown. .
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:27 PM   #18
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:32 PM   #19
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The OP is laughing stupid since it falsely claims Palin was wrong with death panels since Obamacare has already enacted in hospitals being penalized for readmission rates above a certain level. And so the death panels begin.

What makes it funnier is the partisan thread starter.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I believe he is talking about Dave Lane as the rodeo clown. .
He still took the Sagan quote out of context.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
He still took the Sagan quote out of context.
No, and the point bashing Lane still remains in effect.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
No, and the point bashing Lane still remains in effect.
When did Sagan say "he's never seen anyone change their mind on religion"?
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Old 07-28-2014, 01:42 AM   #23
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The OP is laughing stupid since it falsely claims Palin was wrong with death panels since Obamacare has already enacted in hospitals being penalized for readmission rates above a certain level. And so the death panels begin.

What makes it funnier is the partisan thread starter.
That's not remotely what she said, nor does it remotely mean the death panels begin.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:48 AM   #24
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Yes. Most people are more concerned with winning an argument than being right about the topic. I'm aware of that.

Most people are also so insular they do not acknowledge that they themselves do it, but they see it clear as day in the behavior of others. These folks are the worst offenders. Small minded, closed minded, obtuse... any of those descriptors are accurate enough.

I make an effort to learn and understand others, but I'm obviously human as well. I will say that people are much easier to persuade in person than they are over the internet, where everyone's inner sociopath is unleashed. I talk politics all the time and it rarely gets heated unless it's on the internet or some kind of group discussion where people start talking over each other. 1 on 1 I never have a problem regardless of the other person's beliefs.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:17 AM   #25
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I like that we all think differently. I hold no awards or self esteem because I managed to persuade someone to my way of thinking. Having an engaging discussion because we're all curious about eachother is way more fun than trying to prove how right you are.

DC is just a way to filter out who you'd want to sit next to at dinner.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:41 AM   #26
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:11 AM   #27
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I used to be opposed to same sex marriage on religious grounds. Then I realized I had no right to deny others rights based on my beliefs.

So now I have no issue with it.

I will wait patiently for someone to tell me that doesn't count.
It doesn't count.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:37 AM   #28
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"There's too many close minded people. It's those people that disagree with me, though. Not me. I'm not one."
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:09 AM   #29
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:09 AM   #30
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