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Old 08-03-2014, 09:54 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Missouri on Right To Farm Bill

Interesting vote coming up on this one. For the Missourians, where do you stand on this one? You can read about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/us...tion.html?_r=0
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:20 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It's literally in the ****ing article. "The USDA sets standards on grass-fed beef." Read it.
reading is optional around here...

try pretty pictures and some graphs, yeah graphs would do it...
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:21 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
reading is optional around here...

try pretty pictures and some graphs, yeah graphs would do it...
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:21 PM   #63
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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i know the answer to this!

we can get all get our food needs met with that little gizmo on the original star trek series that acted like a vending machine for any kind of food desired...
For many people that where they think HyVee gets it. Pretty sad how disconnected we have become from things like where chicken or eggs come from, what the difference is between milk and ground beef. And why goes into raising a calf from birth to the grill in our backyards.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:21 PM   #64
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Love it. PBS is a great source on raising cattle. Far better than someone who raises cattle.

We stick a hose into their rumen? For **** sake. You may be one smart guy in some things but you are a ****ing nitwit in the area of cows.
It's not PBS, it's an interview with Michael Pollan, who has written multiple books on the subject and followed animals extensively, in Kansas no less, for Power Steer.

Don't believe him on the bloat treatment, here's another source from a beef specialist:

http://beef.osu.edu/library/bloat.html

Treatment

"Free-gas bloat can usually be relieved by inserting a 3/4" rubber hose into the rumen via the esophagus. If "hosing" does not give immediate relief, a defoaming agent (poloxalene) should be administered through the hose to break the surface tension of the ingesta. A pint of mineral oil is also a defoamer. "
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:22 PM   #65
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I want to have an opinion on this but I just can't muster enough energy to care. (and do the required research on the actual bill and it's true implications... loads of misinformation floating around here) My guess (total out of my ass guess) is that both sides of this are full of a-holes with special interests. Screw PETA and the HUSA but also screw giant agribusiness that could give 2 shits about farmers.

How's that for a useless space wasting post!
aren't all the posts in dc useless space wasting pos's?

i thought that was the point of dc...
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:23 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
aren't all the posts in dc useless space wasting pos's?

i thought that was the point of dc...
You'll get no argument from me on that!
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:24 PM   #67
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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FWIW, here are the requirements for the grass-fed certification that professional agriculturist HCF says doesn't exist:

Grass and forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g., legumes, Brassica), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state. Animals cannot be fed grain or grain byproducts and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season. Hay, haylage, baleage, silage, crop residue without grain, and other roughage sources may also be included as acceptable feed sources. Routine mineral and vitamin supplementation may also be included in the feeding regimen. If incidental supplementation occurs due to inadvertent exposure to non-forage feedstuffs or to ensure the animal’s well being at all times during adverse environmental or physical conditions, the producer must fully document (e.g., receipts, ingredients, and tear tags) the supplementation that occurs including the amount, the frequency, and the supplements provided.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....ms&resultType=
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:27 PM   #68
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Re: Antibiotics

Total Cows: 87.73 M Head Link

Total Hogs: 112 M slaughtered - I couldn't find how many boar and sow. Link

Total chickens: 8 billion slaughtered in US Link

Total Turkeys: 253 Million Link

So yeah, given those numbers do you think it's reasonable that most of the antibiotics in the country are given to livestock? Doesn't seem too far out of line. **** the turkey flock is the size of the human flock.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:27 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Loneiguana is that you?
no, loneiguana is kotter's mult, or hooties, or gochiefs?

i'm really phil's nephew on the scottish side...

or was it snr or bwana? i have too many nephews, can't keep em all straight...

i think it's kotter...
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #70
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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RE: Grain

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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
One of the problems is that antibiotic usage set forth still isn't safe. Almost 70% of all antibiotics used in the US are used on livestock. For as much as we worry about living in aseptic environments and germophobia, we encourage more resistance through the way we culture food, which has to happen as a result of the proximity of the animals and the metabolic acidosis they undergo as a result of a grain-heavy diet.
Simple truth. We can't produce the protein necessary to sustain life on this country by eliminating grain feed.

I'll go cows because that's what I know.

Time to slaughter finished on grain: aprox 1 year.
Time to slaugher on grass: approx 2 years.

Cows per acre on grass in Scott County Kansas. .1 Yes, 1/10 of a cow per acre or 10 acres per cow.
Cows per acre in a lot: 50 head/acre.

It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that there isn't enough grass for cows alone, much less hogs (which are a bitch to free range), chickens (which are tougher, because EVERYTHING eats them), and turkeys (**** turkeys).

Eliminating the capacity of the livestock industry to finish on grain will not happen. It just won't. If it does, most of us will be eating meat off grain it will just come from South America or Australia.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #71
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
FWIW, here are the requirements for the grass-fed certification that professional agriculturist HCF says doesn't exist:

Grass and forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g., legumes, Brassica), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state. Animals cannot be fed grain or grain byproducts and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season. Hay, haylage, baleage, silage, crop residue without grain, and other roughage sources may also be included as acceptable feed sources. Routine mineral and vitamin supplementation may also be included in the feeding regimen. If incidental supplementation occurs due to inadvertent exposure to non-forage feedstuffs or to ensure the animalís well being at all times during adverse environmental or physical conditions, the producer must fully document (e.g., receipts, ingredients, and tear tags) the supplementation that occurs including the amount, the frequency, and the supplements provided.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....ms&resultType=

I know you desire to be right badly. But you are looking steadily more foolish.

Grass fed is not a certification. Its a voluntary claim. The USDA does not certify anything. The claim is voluntary and in 2007 the USDA established a definition. Anyone can claim the grass fed.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:37 PM   #72
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Buehler,

When my grandparents raised cattle, like most, they fed primarily hay, alfalfa, clover, grazed grass, and supplemented with charge. I imagine that would approximate "grass-fed," but I'm not certain.

In order for beef to have "grass-fed" certification, what percentage of their diet can be grain?
I don't know. Literally nobody does it here. It's way more profitable to go cow-calf with the grass out here.

All I know is the natural cattle aren't given antibiotics.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:43 PM   #73
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Here in Linn County there is normally enough grass that all the cattle are grass fed and have generally 1 cow per acre. I really think the cattle farmers here do a great job with their cattle raising. Old School.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:44 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It's not PBS, it's an interview with Michael Pollan, who has written multiple books on the subject and followed animals extensively, in Kansas no less, for Power Steer.

Don't believe him on the bloat treatment, here's another source from a beef specialist:

http://beef.osu.edu/library/bloat.html

Treatment

"Free-gas bloat can usually be relieved by inserting a 3/4" rubber hose into the rumen via the esophagus. If "hosing" does not give immediate relief, a defoaming agent (poloxalene) should be administered through the hose to break the surface tension of the ingesta. A pint of mineral oil is also a defoamer. "
Its laughable that you actually buy into this stuff. Could we get a quote from Jeremy Rifkin? Cows bloat. They can bloat at any time especially in spring when grass is really lush or when they change diet from one place to another on crass or clover or alfalfa. Even moving them from one pasture to another can cause some to bloat.

Bloat is a uncomfortable thing for a cow and a=in almost all cases they come out of it rather fast on their own. They will quit eating...that is the fastest cure. And they belch or fart...bloat is gas...in really bad cases we can treat cattle with an anti bloat shot.

Back in the old days,back in the 50s and before it was not uncommon to treat a bloated cow with this mineral oil thing. But that is rare these days as we know far better how to manage the animals so we don't have bloat issues.

I can recall maybe 4 or 5 cases of bloat that was a concern I have dealt with over the last few years. 2 or 3 were moved into a dry lot for a couple days till they recovered on their own then they went back on grass.

Cattle in a feedlot setting even more rarely have bloat issues. They may have gut related issues caused by a sudden change from a grass/grazing diet to a hay and grain diet that is more related to protein levels and protein sources.

In any case you won't find cattle raisers or feed lot operators running about with oil and 4 foot hoses treating cows with gas.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:49 PM   #75
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Here in Linn County there is normally enough grass that all the cattle are grass fed and have generally 1 cow per acre. I really think the cattle farmers here do a great job with their cattle raising. Old School.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It's not PBS, it's an interview with Michael Pollan, who has written multiple books on the subject and followed animals extensively, in Kansas no less, for Power Steer.

Don't believe him on the bloat treatment, here's another source from a beef specialist:

http://beef.osu.edu/library/bloat.html

Treatment

"Free-gas bloat can usually be relieved by inserting a 3/4" rubber hose into the rumen via the esophagus. If "hosing" does not give immediate relief, a defoaming agent (poloxalene) should be administered through the hose to break the surface tension of the ingesta. A pint of mineral oil is also a defoamer. "
Bloat comes from eating too lush of vegetation. My grandpa lost a mother****ing PILE of money because his fence went down around his alfalfa patch and his cows ate dewy alfalfa.

No grain involved.

Oh yeah, he had to move them around until they went down and stabbed them in the guts and hope they didn't die when they deflated.

Dad finally got some defoamer for his sprayer. Fixed the problem.
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