|
10-03-2000, 09:28 AM | #2 |
Stram was Cav
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chiefsplanet
Casino cash: $9174010
|
Gaz, have to agree. Are we winning because of him, or in spite of him? In my mind, the jury is still out.
|
Posts: 5,232
|
10-03-2000, 09:32 AM | #3 |
Supporter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $6838598
|
I am not totally on the JR bandwagon yet, but he has done a great job the 2 of the last 3 games.
I am concerned about the lack of discipline with the penalties. I really like the DL play so far. ------------------ bk |
Posts: 95,642
|
10-03-2000, 09:35 AM | #4 |
Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: 10-20?
Casino cash: $10004900
|
~ how far is "a long way to go..."
~ do ya think Grbacs execution under pressure has anything to do with it ;-) |
Posts: 262
|
10-03-2000, 09:49 AM | #5 |
Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
I'm not a Raye backer by any means, but I think Raye shoulders more of the blame than he deserves. At the end of the '98 season the passing offence was fairly productive. Then, along comes Gunther, who seemed determined to rush the ball to prove toughness. I think the offence was limited by the scope of what Gunther would allow. Even under the leash system last year, we seemed to have an uncanny ability to do well on third down and to score in the red zone. That kind of efficiancy in crucial situations doesn't happen by accident. Now this year, it looks like Gunther has decided he would rather win than prove his toughness and has loosened the straight jacket a bit. It has been like flipping a light switch. Again, sudden changes like that don't happen by accident. Raye still has his faults (like moving away from a play that is working), but I don't think running up Grunny's backside is Raye's preferred game plan. I think RBBC is also a Gunism, that can't be layed at Raye's feet.
|
Posts: 216
|
10-03-2000, 09:50 AM | #6 |
Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
I'm not a Raye backer by any means, but I think Raye shoulders more of the blame than he deserves. At the end of the '98 season the passing offence was fairly productive. Then, along comes Gunther, who seemed determined to rush the ball to prove toughness. I think the offence was limited by the scope of what Gunther would allow. Even under the leash system last year, we seemed to have an uncanny ability to do well on third down and to score in the red zone. That kind of efficiancy in crucial situations doesn't happen by accident. Now this year, it looks like Gunther has decided he would rather win than prove his toughness and has loosened the straight jacket a bit. It has been like flipping a light switch. Again, sudden changes like that don't happen by accident. Raye still has his faults (like moving away from a play that is working), but I don't think running up Grunny's backside is Raye's preferred game plan. I think RBBC is also a Gunism, that can't be layed at Raye's feet.
|
Posts: 216
|
10-03-2000, 09:52 AM | #7 |
Football junkie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
Desert Chief-
To be honest, I don’t know how long it will take for me to bail on the Rayebasher wagon. Raye’s record of failure extends back for years and his record of predominantly good playcalling extends back three weeks. He will have to show me consistently good play calling, without the predictability that hurt us so bad on numerous occasions. He will have to stop disappearing for a quarter at a time. He will have to continue to attack whatever the Defense gives him. And he will have to do that for an extended period of time [3 quarters is insufficient]. I can be had, but I am not easy. xoxo~ gaz not easy, but definitely worth the effort.<BR> |
Posts: 882
|
10-03-2000, 09:52 AM | #8 |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Oswego,Ks,USofA
Casino cash: $10004900
|
raye cost me $5
I bet that the 73yd Alexander catch was going to be 3 runs up TGr's butt and a punt...Imagine my (pleasant) suprise seeing a PASS!!!!!!!! inside our 20.. outcome was worth more enjoyment than the 2 beer loss. |
Posts: 1,060
|
10-03-2000, 09:53 AM | #9 |
Football junkie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
I still think Raye was a bad, bad mistake on Gunther’s part. I think he hindered us in more games than he helped us. I think he shows signs that he can call an unpredictable game that attacks the openings in the Defense, but still goes brain dead for several series at a time.
Still, he has showed improvement. That is the criteria we are using for Grbac, so the same metric should be applied to Raye. Is he our OCOTF? IMO, no. We would be MUCH better off with a more aggressive OC. But he has exceeded my expectations over the last three games and I owe him the courtesy of saying so in the same forum where I bash him brutally. Clint asked why Rayebashers were not giving credit to Raye when the Grbashers are expected to laud Grbac’s improvement. Thus this thread. I am a Rayebasher giving Raye credit for helping his team over the last three games. Good job, Jimmy. Keep it up, please. xoxo~ gaz thinks that didn’t hurt too much.<BR> |
Posts: 882
|
10-03-2000, 09:56 AM | #10 |
MVP
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lee's Summit
Casino cash: $5411637
|
Excellent take cdcox. Nothing more to add!
|
Posts: 8,275
|
10-03-2000, 10:04 AM | #11 |
Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: 10-20?
Casino cash: $10004900
|
One more gazzing --
Gaz are you a Olympic quality ballroom dancer ? when I asked ~ how far is "a long way to go..." I was trying to get an idea on the amount of time, or wins, or even a big win (vs Rams ?) it would take. I'm not buying the idea that it takes an equal amount of time for successes to overcome failures, why that would be unfair. Also what 'move' do you have for this one, again: ~ do ya think Grbacs execution under pressure has anything to do with it ;-) |
Posts: 262
|
10-03-2000, 10:15 AM | #12 |
International Gun Runner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Madison, AL USA
Casino cash: $10004900
|
I have always liked the different plays that the Chiefs offense can use. Sometimes, I do not lie the Three runs up Grunhards A$$ and Punt. However, I don't want the offensive system to change. We Just need Raye to continue mix up his play calling.
Hoover Like the offense, worry about Raye |
Posts: 873
|
10-03-2000, 10:16 AM | #13 |
Football junkie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
Desert Chief-
If I had a set criteria, I would have given it to you. I simply watch and evaluate the various positions, collecting data until a conclusion forms. Sometimes that happens quickly [Hicks is a stud, Gray was a panic move, Morris will be a playa]. Sometimes that takes more time [Grbac might be an okay QB, maybe Gunther is not HC material, Richardson should stay at FB]. Sorry I cannot give you a timetable. I will continue to watch and evaluate the play calling. When Raye calls a good game, I will say so. If he does so consistently [no, I don’t know how many weeks, days, hours and seconds that is], then I will gleefully eat my crow and leap from the Rayebasher wagon. Sorry, I didn’t mean to ignore your question. My apologies for offending. I think Raye and Grbac used to have a symbiotic relationship. I think Raye’s boneheaded play calling often put Grbac in 3rd & long and set him up for failure. On the other hand, I think Grbac’s inability to read a Defense forced Raye to be more conservative than he might have wished to be. Throw Gunther’s “we’re gonna out-tough you” ‘tude into the mix d you had a muddy mess. Grbac’s performance under pressure has improved, though he still reverts back to bad habits on occasion. Gonzalez’s TD was great, but that ball should not have been thrown, IMO. Still, Grbac has played quite since The Leash came off last season. Sure, there have been some stinkers, but overall he has improved considerably. Here’s hoping that I can say the same thing about Raye and Gunther in the future. xoxo~ gaz showing his ‘moves’<BR> |
Posts: 882
|
10-03-2000, 11:07 AM | #14 |
Football junkie
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10004900
|
Desert Chief-
“I'm not buying the idea that it takes an equal amount of time for successes to overcome failures, why that would be unfair.” So how long does it take to redeem failure? What would be fair? xoxo~ gaz doesn’t want to be unfair.<BR> |
Posts: 882
|
10-03-2000, 11:15 AM | #15 |
Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: redwood
Casino cash: $10004900
|
I see Raye as a co-ordinator who inherited a system that was a decade in the making. The Chiefs are a running team - period. He hung that philosophy out until it was obvious that it no longer worked with this unit. I find it difficult to tar him as ineffectual, stubborn, stupid or lacking in vision or creativity. He was given a road map, and now he's labeled as a moron for following it. The fact that the offense is beginning to gel is, I believe, the mark of an extremely talented individual doing a superb job of adapting on the fly. If some play calling fails, placing total blame at his feet is extremely myopic. It takes a large group of people to screw up, or succeed. Cutting one person out of the herd is way too easy - and inaccurate.
|
Posts: 215
|
|
|