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Old 09-09-2004, 08:32 PM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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The superscript "th" probably wasn't forged...

Just stumbled across this at DU.

It's a document released by Bush campaign in 2000... it has the same superscript "th" (see line 2 "111th")


It's not stratight from the WH website, but if this is the document then the justifications that I've heard around here for forgery are all debunked.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:35 PM   #2
alnorth alnorth is offline
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Old news, youve got a LOT more problems to deal with now. We have already acknowledged that the th superscript might have been possible, but we now have 3 serious problems.

1) The memos were spaced proportionately, instead of monospace. (not possible)

2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times New Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)

3) The apostrophes are curlicues instead of straight lines. (not possible)

Face it, these are obvious forgeries, CBS news has been had, and ABC news is (rumored) preparing a nice Nightline episode for this.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:35 PM   #3
Joe Seahawk Joe Seahawk is offline
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Why only one of them? look at the 5th line..
besides, there are several other reasons to suspect it's a forgery..
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:39 PM   #4
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth
Old news, youve got a LOT more problems to deal with now. We have already acknowledged that the th superscript might have been possible, but we now have 3 serious problems.

1) The memos were spaced proportionately, instead of monospace. (not possible)
Old news yourself!

THis one was debunked 1st thing this morning... even RL will tell you that. IBM had a typewritier in 1966 that used porportional font.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth
2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times NEw Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)

3) The apostrophes are curlicues instead of straight lines. (not possible)
I'll be curious to see it.

I haven't seen anything about the other two yet, but given that you had an already debunked assertion in #1, I'll assume #2 and #3 are at least still questions rather than facts.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:41 PM   #5
Joe Seahawk Joe Seahawk is offline
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The one on the second line could have easily been photoshopped, the rest of the TH's are not superscript..
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Seahawk
Why only one of them? look at the 5th line..
besides
From what I read, this document is one filled out over time by several different people... possibly using different equipment in different offices... So one keyboard might have the "th" and another might have to type it out.

Or one typist used the "th" and another prefered typing it out.

I'll see what I can find on the ' and font issue that alnorth mentioned.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Seahawk
The one on the second line could have easily been photoshopped, the rest of the TH's are not superscript..
Yeah, anything's possible with photoshop... I'd be curious to see if anyone can find this document from a more official source.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:42 PM   #8
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It's official! ABC News is now attacking the story!

abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-2.html

On top of the problems I listed earlier, ABC News is reporting a new one: The verticle spacing of the memos was measured at 13 point, which was NOT available in any 1970's typewriters, untill the advent of computers.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:44 PM   #9
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So what you're saying is that the National Guard of 1972 somehow came into ownership of a 2004 computer via time travel...?
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:45 PM   #10
WilliamTheIrish WilliamTheIrish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
Yeah, anything's possible with photoshop... I'd be curious to see if anyone can find this document from a more official source.
DU isn't an official source?
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:46 PM   #11
alnorth alnorth is offline
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Quote:
I haven't seen anything about the other two yet, but given that you had an already debunked assertion in #1, I'll assume #2 and #3 are at least still questions rather than facts.
Well you can read them for yourself from that far-right wing wacko biased news site, ABC. Take off the blinders, one of your more over-zealous "ABB" comrades decided to commit a felony for Kerry.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
Just stumbled across this at DU.

It's a document released by Bush campaign in 2000... it has the same superscript "th" (see line 2 "111th")


It's not stratight from the WH website, but if this is the document then the justifications that I've heard around here for forgery are all debunked.
I don't know about the CBS documents since I didn't catch the show. But the one you show looks right for an IBM Selectric. I used to type on them in high school and college in the 70's and that output looks about right, particularly with the cute little round balls that had the type set on it...

You could have different cute little typesets and just switch them out like I do now with my printer cartridges on my Deskjet. Lift a lever, lift the typeset ball, and replace it with the other one.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth
2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times New Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)
Found this..... showing it's not TNR.

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Old 09-09-2004, 08:48 PM   #14
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Give it up Jaz. It's so obviously a fake.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:49 PM   #15
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That would be a good point.... if the lettering of the memos were at all clear. Just look at them with the naked eye, youll see a lot of .... not blurriness, but obvious spots where ink was missing, or too much ink applied.

Because of this, the experts were cautious, suggesting that it was probably Times New Roman, but they couldnt tell for sure because of the poor quality.
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