The superscript "th" probably wasn't forged...

**jAZ** · 09-09-2004, 08:32 PM

Just stumbled across this at DU.

It's a document released by Bush campaign in 2000... it has the same superscript "th" (see line 2 "111th")

It's not stratight from the WH website, but if this is the document then the justifications that I've heard around here for forgery are all debunked.

alnorth · 09-09-2004, 08:35 PM

Old news, youve got a LOT more problems to deal with now. We have already acknowledged that the th superscript might have been possible, but we now have 3 serious problems.

1) The memos were spaced proportionately, instead of monospace. (not possible)

2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times New Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)

3) The apostrophes are curlicues instead of straight lines. (not possible)

Face it, these are obvious forgeries, CBS news has been had, and ABC news is (rumored) preparing a nice Nightline episode for this.

Joe Seahawk · 09-09-2004, 08:35 PM

Why only one of them? look at the 5th line..
besides, there are several other reasons to suspect it's a forgery..

**jAZ** · 09-09-2004, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Old news, youve got a LOT more problems to deal with now. We have already acknowledged that the th superscript might have been possible, but we now have 3 serious problems.

1) The memos were spaced proportionately, instead of monospace. (not possible)

Old news yourself!

THis one was debunked 1st thing this morning... even RL will tell you that. IBM had a typewritier in 1966 that used porportional font.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times NEw Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)

3) The apostrophes are curlicues instead of straight lines. (not possible)

I'll be curious to see it.

I haven't seen anything about the other two yet, but given that you had an already debunked assertion in #1, I'll assume #2 and #3 are at least still questions rather than facts.

Joe Seahawk · 09-09-2004, 08:41 PM

The one on the second line could have easily been photoshopped, the rest of the TH's are not superscript..

**jAZ** · 09-09-2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Seahawk

Why only one of them? look at the 5th line..
besides

From what I read, this document is one filled out over time by several different people... possibly using different equipment in different offices... So one keyboard might have the "th" and another might have to type it out.

Or one typist used the "th" and another prefered typing it out.

I'll see what I can find on the ' and font issue that alnorth mentioned.

**jAZ** · 09-09-2004, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Seahawk

The one on the second line could have easily been photoshopped, the rest of the TH's are not superscript..

Yeah, anything's possible with photoshop... I'd be curious to see if anyone can find this document from a more official source.

alnorth · 09-09-2004, 08:42 PM

It's official! ABC News is now attacking the story!

abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-2.html

On top of the problems I listed earlier, ABC News is reporting a new one: The verticle spacing of the memos was measured at 13 point, which was NOT available in any 1970's typewriters, untill the advent of computers.

Braincase · 09-09-2004, 08:44 PM

So what you're saying is that the National Guard of 1972 somehow came into ownership of a 2004 computer via time travel...?

WilliamInnerCircle · 09-09-2004, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

Yeah, anything's possible with photoshop... I'd be curious to see if anyone can find this document from a more official source.

DU isn't an official source?

alnorth · 09-09-2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

I haven't seen anything about the other two yet, but given that you had an already debunked assertion in #1, I'll assume #2 and #3 are at least still questions rather than facts.

Well you can read them for yourself from that far-right wing wacko biased news site, ABC.

Take off the blinders, one of your more over-zealous "ABB" comrades decided to commit a felony for Kerry.

Hel'n · 09-09-2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jAZ

Just stumbled across this at DU.

It's a document released by Bush campaign in 2000... it has the same superscript "th" (see line 2 "111th")

It's not stratight from the WH website, but if this is the document then the justifications that I've heard around here for forgery are all debunked.

I don't know about the CBS documents since I didn't catch the show. But the one you show looks right for an IBM Selectric. I used to type on them in high school and college in the 70's and that output looks about right, particularly with the cute little round balls that had the type set on it...

You could have different cute little typesets and just switch them out like I do now with my printer cartridges on my Deskjet. Lift a lever, lift the typeset ball, and replace it with the other one.

**jAZ** · 09-09-2004, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times New Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible)

Found this..... showing it's not TNR.

FringeNC · 09-09-2004, 08:48 PM

Give it up Jaz. It's so obviously a fake.

alnorth · 09-09-2004, 08:49 PM

That would be a good point.... if the lettering of the memos were at all clear. Just look at them with the naked eye, youll see a lot of .... not blurriness, but obvious spots where ink was missing, or too much ink applied.

Because of this, the experts were cautious, suggesting that it was probably Times New Roman, but they couldnt tell for sure because of the poor quality.

09-09-2004, 08:32 PM
jAZ Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Casino cash: $43129	The superscript "th" probably wasn't forged... Just stumbled across this at DU. It's a document released by Bush campaign in 2000... it has the same superscript "th" (see line 2 "111th") It's not stratight from the WH website, but if this is the document then the justifications that I've heard around here for forgery are all debunked.
Posts: 24,703

09-09-2004, 08:41 PM	#5
Joe Seahawk This place entertains.. Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Seattle Casino cash: $47103	The one on the second line could have easily been photoshopped, the rest of the TH's are not superscript..
Posts: 5,055

09-09-2004, 08:42 PM	#8
alnorth MVP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowania Casino cash: $12370519	It's official! ABC News is now attacking the story! abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-2.html On top of the problems I listed earlier, ABC News is reporting a new one: The verticle spacing of the memos was measured at 13 point, which was NOT available in any 1970's typewriters, untill the advent of computers.
Posts: 21,977

09-09-2004, 08:44 PM	#9
Braincase Captain Nemo Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brownbackistan Casino cash: $1074423	So what you're saying is that the National Guard of 1972 somehow came into ownership of a 2004 computer via time travel...? __________________ BrainCase Screw it... I'm going to the brewery.
Posts: 14,070

09-09-2004, 08:48 PM	#14
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $51697	Give it up Jaz. It's so obviously a fake.
Posts: 7,169

09-09-2004, 08:35 PM	#2
alnorth MVP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowania Casino cash: $12370519	Old news, youve got a LOT more problems to deal with now. We have already acknowledged that the th superscript might have been possible, but we now have 3 serious problems. 1) The memos were spaced proportionately, instead of monospace. (not possible) 2) The memos appear to have been typed in "Times New Roman", a highly popular font invented in the 1980's (not possible) 3) The apostrophes are curlicues instead of straight lines. (not possible) Face it, these are obvious forgeries, CBS news has been had, and ABC news is (rumored) preparing a nice Nightline episode for this.
Posts: 21,977

09-09-2004, 08:49 PM	#15
alnorth MVP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowania Casino cash: $12370519	That would be a good point.... if the lettering of the memos were at all clear. Just look at them with the naked eye, youll see a lot of .... not blurriness, but obvious spots where ink was missing, or too much ink applied. Because of this, the experts were cautious, suggesting that it was probably Times New Roman, but they couldnt tell for sure because of the poor quality.
Posts: 21,977

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