DoD hid up to 100 prisoners from Red Cross... CIA hiding documents from Congress.

**jAZ** · 09-10-2004, 12:07 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../iraq_abuse_dc

U.S. Hid Dozens of Iraqi Prisoners, Investigators Say

Thu Sep 9, 5:41 PM ET

By Vicki Allen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States may have kept up to 100 "ghost detainees" in Iraq (news - web sites) off the books and concealed from Red Cross observers, a far higher number than previously reported, an Army general told Congress on Thursday.

Estimates were rough because the CIA (news - web sites) has withheld documents on concealed detainees, Army generals who investigated U.S. abuses of Iraqi prisoners told lawmakers. Republican and Democratic senators blasted the CIA, and called for it to turn over the material.

At a Senate committee hearing, Gen. Paul Kern, commander of the U.S. Army Materiel Command, said he believed the number of ghost detainees held in violation of Geneva Convention protections was "in the dozens to perhaps up to 100," far surpassing the eight people identified in an Army report.

Maj. Gen. George Fay, deputy commander at the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, said he expected it may be two dozen or more. "We were not able to get documentation from the Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) to answer those types of questions. So we really don't know the volume," he said.

The Geneva Conventions require countries to disclose information on prisoners to the International Committee of the Red Cross, which monitors their treatment.

The Senate and House of Representatives Armed Services Committees held hearings on an Army probe of the role of military intelligence in abuses at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, as well as broader findings on U.S. mistreatment of prisoners by an independent panel headed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger.

The reports depicted more widespread abuses than the acts of a handful of soldiers accused when the images of horrific sexual and physical humiliation and torture at the Abu Ghraib prison first came to light last spring.

CIA CRITICIZED

While the panel led by Schlesinger blamed top Pentagon (news - web sites) civilian and military leaders for contributing to a climate that led to the sadistic treatment of detainees, Schlesinger said U.S. forces in Iraq had behaved far better overall than in previous wars, including World War II, Korea and Vietnam.

He said the 66 cases of confirmed abuse, although higher than the Bush administration first disclosed, "is a small number -- comparing quite well ... with previous wars."

Senators called the CIA's failure so far to turn over information sought by Army investigators unacceptable.

"The situation with the CIA and ghost soldiers is beginning to look like a bad movie," said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), an Arizona Republican.

"I think that this is something that needs to be asked ... of the incoming director of the CIA," McCain said, referring to Rep. Porter Goss (news, bio, voting record), a Florida Republican tapped by President Bush (news - web sites) to run the CIA.

The Senate Intelligence Committee scheduled a confirmation hearing for Goss on Sept. 14.

Warner said the Intelligence Committee also was pressing the CIA for information, and said the Armed Services Committee would more closely examine the ghost detainees issue.

CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said the agency's inspector general was conducting "a comprehensive review of the agency's involvement in detention and interrogation activities," and the agency was "determined to examine thoroughly any allegations of abuse."

The findings of the Army investigation, headed by Fay and Lt. Gen. Anthony Jones and released in August, listed 44 instances of prisoner abuse, 13 directly involving interrogations.

It said 27 military intelligence personnel -- 23 soldiers and four contractors -- directly took part in abuse or induced others to do so, while another eight -- six soldiers and two contractors -- failed to report abuse they had witnessed. All have been recommended for possible criminal charges.

Lawmakers said those higher up the chain of command also must be held accountable for failing in key duties.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record), a South Carolina Republican, worried that the "only people that are court-martialed here are privates and sergeants ... Dereliction of duty will be redefined one way or the other after this investigation." (Additional reporting by Will Dunham, Jim Wolf and Tabassum Zakaria)

Donger · 09-10-2004, 12:09 PM

Try as I might, I really could care less.

09-10-2004, 12:11 PM

What's your point?

Cochise · 09-10-2004, 12:16 PM

The hell with them.

Duck Dog · 09-10-2004, 12:29 PM

jaz, are you as concerned for the rights of American prisoners in American prisons as you are about foreign prisoners in military prisons?

And for someome who claims they are pro military, you sure don't waste anytime posting up negative articles about them.

09-10-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck Dog

jaz, are you as concerned for the rights of American prisoners in American prisons as you are about foreign prisoners in military prisons?

And for someome who claims they are pro military, you sure don't waste anytime posting up negative articles about them.

He can't be pro military, he is a skerryrat, not to be confused with democrats.

King_Chief_Fan · 09-10-2004, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8er_h8er

He can't be pro military, he is a skerryrat, not to be confused with democrats.

jaz is a guy?

RINGLEADER · 09-10-2004, 12:44 PM

If it saved even one American GI's life I'm all for it.

Calcountry · 09-10-2004, 01:48 PM

Jaz, are you sure those documents are not forged?

Cochise · 09-10-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnytrdr

Jaz, are you sure those documents are not forged?

Buh dum TISH!

**Iowanian** · 09-10-2004, 01:52 PM

I don't care........I'm guessing they were real bastards, and deserved worse.

**KC Dan** · 09-10-2004, 01:53 PM

I hope they were hiding them at the bottom of the gulf wearing concrete shoes!

OldTownChief · 09-10-2004, 01:54 PM

Too bad they didn't just kill all of them.

jjjayb · 09-10-2004, 06:55 PM

Maybe the hidden prisoners are actually Bin Laden and others that Jaz thinks Bush is holding to unveil right before the election.

BigOlChiefsfan · 09-10-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjayb

Maybe the hidden prisoners are actually Bin Laden and others that Jaz thinks Bush is holding to unveil right before the election.

Ah yes, the old October Surprise. Bin Laden Bin Hidden, eh?

Bin factored in, Bin dismissed.

09-10-2004, 12:07 PM
jAZ Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Casino cash: $43009	DoD hid up to 100 prisoners from Red Cross... CIA hiding documents from Congress. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../iraq_abuse_dc U.S. Hid Dozens of Iraqi Prisoners, Investigators Say Thu Sep 9, 5:41 PM ET By Vicki Allen WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States may have kept up to 100 "ghost detainees" in Iraq (news - web sites) off the books and concealed from Red Cross observers, a far higher number than previously reported, an Army general told Congress on Thursday. Estimates were rough because the CIA (news - web sites) has withheld documents on concealed detainees, Army generals who investigated U.S. abuses of Iraqi prisoners told lawmakers. Republican and Democratic senators blasted the CIA, and called for it to turn over the material. At a Senate committee hearing, Gen. Paul Kern, commander of the U.S. Army Materiel Command, said he believed the number of ghost detainees held in violation of Geneva Convention protections was "in the dozens to perhaps up to 100," far surpassing the eight people identified in an Army report. Maj. Gen. George Fay, deputy commander at the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, said he expected it may be two dozen or more. "We were not able to get documentation from the Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) to answer those types of questions. So we really don't know the volume," he said. The Geneva Conventions require countries to disclose information on prisoners to the International Committee of the Red Cross, which monitors their treatment. The Senate and House of Representatives Armed Services Committees held hearings on an Army probe of the role of military intelligence in abuses at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, as well as broader findings on U.S. mistreatment of prisoners by an independent panel headed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger. The reports depicted more widespread abuses than the acts of a handful of soldiers accused when the images of horrific sexual and physical humiliation and torture at the Abu Ghraib prison first came to light last spring. CIA CRITICIZED While the panel led by Schlesinger blamed top Pentagon (news - web sites) civilian and military leaders for contributing to a climate that led to the sadistic treatment of detainees, Schlesinger said U.S. forces in Iraq had behaved far better overall than in previous wars, including World War II, Korea and Vietnam. He said the 66 cases of confirmed abuse, although higher than the Bush administration first disclosed, "is a small number -- comparing quite well ... with previous wars." Senators called the CIA's failure so far to turn over information sought by Army investigators unacceptable. "The situation with the CIA and ghost soldiers is beginning to look like a bad movie," said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), an Arizona Republican. "I think that this is something that needs to be asked ... of the incoming director of the CIA," McCain said, referring to Rep. Porter Goss (news, bio, voting record), a Florida Republican tapped by President Bush (news - web sites) to run the CIA. The Senate Intelligence Committee scheduled a confirmation hearing for Goss on Sept. 14. Warner said the Intelligence Committee also was pressing the CIA for information, and said the Armed Services Committee would more closely examine the ghost detainees issue. CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said the agency's inspector general was conducting "a comprehensive review of the agency's involvement in detention and interrogation activities," and the agency was "determined to examine thoroughly any allegations of abuse." The findings of the Army investigation, headed by Fay and Lt. Gen. Anthony Jones and released in August, listed 44 instances of prisoner abuse, 13 directly involving interrogations. It said 27 military intelligence personnel -- 23 soldiers and four contractors -- directly took part in abuse or induced others to do so, while another eight -- six soldiers and two contractors -- failed to report abuse they had witnessed. All have been recommended for possible criminal charges. Lawmakers said those higher up the chain of command also must be held accountable for failing in key duties. Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record), a South Carolina Republican, worried that the "only people that are court-martialed here are privates and sergeants ... Dereliction of duty will be redefined one way or the other after this investigation." (Additional reporting by Will Dunham, Jim Wolf and Tabassum Zakaria)
Posts: 24,700

09-10-2004, 12:09 PM	#2
Donger "Think BOOM!" Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W Casino cash: $253	Try as I might, I really could care less. __________________ I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 68,173

09-10-2004, 12:11 PM	#3
Matt Helm Guest Casino cash: $	What's your point?
Posts: n/a

09-10-2004, 12:16 PM	#4
Cochise MVP Join Date: May 2003 Casino cash: $60	The hell with them.
Posts: 34,302

09-10-2004, 12:29 PM	#5
Duck Dog Reap the whirlwind Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $14877	jaz, are you as concerned for the rights of American prisoners in American prisons as you are about foreign prisoners in military prisons? And for someome who claims they are pro military, you sure don't waste anytime posting up negative articles about them.
Posts: 8,897

09-10-2004, 12:44 PM	#8
RINGLEADER RING****ER Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Confusion, USA Casino cash: $283851	If it saved even one American GI's life I'm all for it.
Posts: 20,844

09-10-2004, 01:48 PM	#9
Calcountry Shoot the tube Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Where I am Casino cash: $3009	Jaz, are you sure those documents are not forged? __________________ Amerika, Amerika, I shed my grace on Thee.
Posts: 26,641

09-10-2004, 01:52 PM	#11
Iowanian Hey Jack! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Jolly Barnyard Casino cash: $417193	I don't care........I'm guessing they were real bastards, and deserved worse. __________________ "Silence is Golden. Duct Tape is silver"
Posts: 48,114

09-10-2004, 01:53 PM	#12
KC Dan Red, White & Blue for the U.S. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Great Northwest now.. Casino cash: $48270	I hope they were hiding them at the bottom of the gulf wearing concrete shoes! __________________ "And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there" - George Harrison
Posts: 5,590

09-10-2004, 01:54 PM	#13
OldTownChief Bobble Taco Join Date: May 2004 Casino cash: $466	Too bad they didn't just kill all of them.
Posts: 5,361

09-10-2004, 06:55 PM	#14
jjjayb Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in K.C. baby!!!! Casino cash: $1035257	Maybe the hidden prisoners are actually Bin Laden and others that Jaz thinks Bush is holding to unveil right before the election.
Posts: 4,365

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