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Old 09-11-2004, 03:11 PM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Former skeptics admit that CBS Documents could be legit

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl....DTL&type=news

Further scrutiny lessens doubts on Bush memos
Some skeptics now say IBM typewriter could have been used

Francie Latour, Michael Rezendes, Boston Globe

After CBS News trumpeted newly discovered documents Wednesday that referred to a 1973 effort to "sugar coat" President Bush's service record in the Texas Air National Guard, the network almost immediately faced charges that the memos were forgeries with typography that was not available on typewriters used at that time.

But specialists interviewed by the Globe and some other news organizations say the specialized characters used in the documents, and the type format, were common to electric typewriters in wide use in the early 1970s, when Bush was a first lieutenant.

Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe Friday that after further study, he now believed the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, "th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing that varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was allotted the same space.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised "th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record the White House made public this year.

Meanwhile, "CBS Evening News" Friday night explained how it had sought to authenticate the documents, focusing primarily on its examiner's conclusion that two of the records were signed by Bush's guard commander, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian. CBS also said other sources -- among Killian's friends and colleagues -- verified that the content of the documents reflected Killian's views at the time.

One of them, Robert Strong, a Guard colleague, said the language in the documents was "compatible with the way business was done at that time. They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being."

But William Flynn, a Phoenix document examiner cited in a Washington Post report Friday, said he had not changed his mind because he did not believe that the proportional spacing between characters, and between lines, in the documents obtained by CBS was possible on typewriters used by the military at the time.

Flynn said his doubts were also based on his belief that the curved apostrophe was not available on electric typewriters at the time, although documents from the period reviewed by the Globe show it was. He acknowledged that the quality of the copies of the documents he examined was poor.

The controversy over the authenticity of the documents has all but blocked out discussion of their content. They say Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's record, and Bush refused a direct order to take a required medical examination and discussed how he could skip drills.

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had first dismissed the Bush documents because the letters and formatting of the memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Friday, Bouffard said that he had not considered the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the memos to Selectric Composer samples, Bouffard said, his view shifted.

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Friday he provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

As for the raised "th" that appears in the Bush memos, Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s.

"You can't just say that this is definitively the mark of a computer," Bouffard said.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:19 PM   #2
Michael Michigan Michael Michigan is offline
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HOT UPDATE: Dr. Bouffard Speaks About Boston Globe!

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php

"What the Boston Globe did now sort of pisses me off, because now I have people calling me and e-mailing me, and calling me names, saying that I changed my mind. I did not change my mind at all!"

"I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:20 PM   #3
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LOL. The guy is furious. Said the Boston Globe writer completely took his comments out of context.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:26 PM   #4
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Bill Ardolino, 28, marketing manager, Washington, D.C. INDC Journal. Describe your blog briefly. A mix of ad hoc humor, political analysis, serious photojournalism and wildly unserious photojournalism ... with the occasional cartoon. How do you plan to cover the convention? My readers can expect limited live-blogging coverage; I tend to take volumes of pictures and hunt down stories, which I then edit and release at a later date. My blog is a bit like the electronic equivalent of a monthly, in that much of the really good coverage may be released AFTER the convention. Why should people read your coverage? Because I'd like to think that my photoblogging is among the best in the blogosphere. Here are some samples (there is much more, and most of these examples have multiple installments): INDC Presents: National World War II Memorial Dedication Weekend; Part One and INDC Journal Interviews Michael Berg What's the biggest gap in convention coverage by mainstream media in prior election years? The "wakefulness gap." Moment/speaker/event you're most looking forward to covering. Tie: John McCain and Rudy. What did you learn from the Boston coverage? Don't talk to the mainstream media. Oops. Which presidential candidate do you plan to vote for in November? W.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by FringeNC
LOL. The guy is furious. Said the Boston Globe writer completely took his comments out of context.
At some point you would think an adult at The Globe and CBS would step up and say enough.

These guys are getting their asses kicked by the new media minutes after they report.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by nychief
Bill Ardolino, 28, marketing manager, Washington, D.C. INDC Journal. Describe your blog briefly. A mix of ad hoc humor, political analysis, serious photojournalism and wildly unserious photojournalism ... with the occasional cartoon. How do you plan to cover the convention? My readers can expect limited live-blogging coverage; I tend to take volumes of pictures and hunt down stories, which I then edit and release at a later date. My blog is a bit like the electronic equivalent of a monthly, in that much of the really good coverage may be released AFTER the convention. Why should people read your coverage? Because I'd like to think that my photoblogging is among the best in the blogosphere. Here are some samples (there is much more, and most of these examples have multiple installments): INDC Presents: National World War II Memorial Dedication Weekend; Part One and INDC Journal Interviews Michael Berg What's the biggest gap in convention coverage by mainstream media in prior election years? The "wakefulness gap." Moment/speaker/event you're most looking forward to covering. Tie: John McCain and Rudy. What did you learn from the Boston coverage? Don't talk to the mainstream media. Oops. Which presidential candidate do you plan to vote for in November? W.

Point?
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:28 PM   #7
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just that the journal is blog... that's all.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by nychief
just that the journal is blog... that's all.
The blogosphere broke this open.


This guy was one of the key players.

Without him, Power Line and the rest, the story would have never shifted.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by nychief
just that the journal is blog... that's all.
Blogs have far more credibility that the NY Times or CBS. Are you calling him a liar? He had e-mail exchanges with the expert. By the way, Dan Rather is a lying piece of shit.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Michael Michigan
The blogosphere broke this open.


This guy was one of the key players.

Without him, Power Line and the rest, the story would have never shifted.

great. I hear the guy at Aint It Cool News has some insight into it also...
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC
Blogs have far more credibility that the NY Times or CBS.
Can I use that in the future so I can post quotes from blogs too?
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Michigan
Try to stay up to speed...

HOT UPDATE: Dr. Bouffard Speaks About Boston Globe!

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php

"What the Boston Globe did now sort of pisses me off, because now I have people calling me and e-mailing me, and calling me names, saying that I changed my mind. I did not change my mind at all!"

"I would appreciate it if you could do whatever it takes to clear this up, through your internet site, or whatever."

"All I'd done is say, 'Hey I want to look into it.' Please correct that damn impression!"
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Michael Michigan
At some point you would think an adult at The Globe and CBS would step up and say enough.

These guys are getting their asses kicked by the new media minutes after they report.
Journalists think they are special because they have "credentials". It takes no specialized skill to be a journalist. The whole profession is being exposed. They are unintelligent, lazy, elitist liberal hacks.
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:38 PM   #14
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Journalists think they are special because they have "credentials". It takes no specialized skill to be a journalist. The whole profession is being exposed. They are unintelligent, lazy, elitist liberal hacks.
Sadly, and unfortunately, what you say is all too often the case...
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Old 09-11-2004, 03:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by FringeNC
Blogs have far more credibility that the NY Times or CBS. Are you calling him a liar? He had e-mail exchanges with the expert. By the way, Dan Rather is a lying piece of shit.

are you serious? do you have a "get the U.S. out of the U.N" bumper sticker? Are you waiting for the race war?

Has this whole board taken crazy pills?
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