This is my natural attitude.

However, just how do they go about accomplishing this?

This is all true as well, except that I think everyone's talking about all of those things; this just happens to be the 'WTF is with Mahomes' thread.

But yeah, they're all pressing, and making stupid mistakes as a result.

But we can't play Chiefs football when defenses are just spotting you everything BUT the deep pass. You have to take what's there, execute, and make them pay for that. Until Patrick and the boys do that, we're not going to see sustained success again.

About the best and simplest way I can put this is like so:

Patrick needs to be a little less Favre and a little more Brady right now.

It's that simple.

I got news for you. They did force defenses to change. And now we have to change.

You keep trying to throw deep balls into defenses that have changed to take away those deep balls and nothing good is going to come of it.

And to keep doing it over and over pretending something different is going to happen is not a productive strategy.

That's not what I asked. You enjoy watching this team score 13 points and Mahomes complete 55% of his passes?

Do you think only Alex Smith threw short and intermediate passes?

The picks got in his head a little and he’s thinking too much now

He’s been amazing and he’s too smart to not figure it out. It’ll be fine

We forced the defenses into this scheme by making people look foolish for three years.

Now they're going to stay there until we adjust.

We haven't adjusted yet. The way to beat that style of defense is to run the ball against the light box, and hit short and intermediate passes, getting the ball out fast to mitigate the pass rush and take advantage of the wide open flats with your backs, slot receivers, and your TE over the middle. Brady won most of his rings doing this. Multiple times last game, Mahomes had Kelce 10 yards plus in the middle, but instead chucked it deep into double coverage. He had backs in the flat with 20 yards of green in front of them.

That's just not smart. He'll come around, but right now, he's making bad choices. All of this commentary is about MAHOMES, and if you want to talk about dropped and tipped passes and lax ball security with backs and receivers, that's an adjacent but still different issue.

Totally agree, and am seeing the same thing.
There was no need for all of the deep balls against the Pack.

But you have many others saying stuff like "stick to what you do best and it will work itself out." I don't really believe that... we will see eventually who is right.

He is just not playing smart football. From what we have seen and subsequently heard him say, his pride is his downfall right now.

I can't think of any situation in any game where you justify throwing a deep ball into double coverage instead of taking a wide open 15 yards unless you are just down and desperate. We were neither.

Mahomes needs to figure out it's okay to play ball control. No one will think lesser of him because he threw higher percentage passes that extended drives and resulted in scores.

Yes, I have only heard this 50 times today on talk radio. Never did I say- not take shorter yardage plays and just heave it every down.

I am talking about trying to make Mahomes a dump off king like we did last week. Everyone is bitching that he still looks for the kill shot- well- that is who he is. If Mecole does not quit on that route- nobody would be bitching about Kelce being open.

Guys were open short on Wasp too. Why can't there be some balance?

Some of the shit I have been hearing and reading is ridiculous, Mahomes sucks, can't read defenses, the footwork stuff again- and fans were hollering in the stands to pull him from the game. :doh!:

Hope is not a strategy. Doing something different like taking what you're given is a strategy.

That's a fool's errand, in my opinion. They're not going to let us beat them that way anymore. They're betting that we won't be patient enough to beat them playing more standard football.

people need to quit equating Alex Smith with this approach and think of Tom Brady winning pretty much all of his rings throwing to backs, and TE's, and slot receivers over the middle.

If we start whooping people doing that, then those deep shots will open up again.

If our defense doesn't hold the Packers to 7 points, even more people are bitching about not hitting Kelce. It was a stupid decision, PERIOD.

This is the stupid shit I am talking about. What pride?? Mecole is a shit route runner- he let up instead of keeping the burners on. Mahomes hits that and it is almost game over with the way the defense was playing.

You are probably also mad he did not dump off when the game was on the line and take a nice safe PUNT. Mahomes played his PRIDEFUL football- and went for the kill shot. He is an assassin- not a soccer mom.

Didn't Mecole drop like 3 passes yesterday?

Here's the thing: Mecole was doubled. There's no good reason to throw that ball at that time to that receiver. it was basically a Hail Mary. He should've taken the first down and looked for another deep shot on the next passing play. Simple.

Exactly. You keep taking high percentage passes and running the ball and being patient, teams will have to start playing up on it.

The difference between Mahomes and Smith is teams played up short against Smith because that's all he could do.

Mahomes will smoke you if you leave guys open deep. That's the difference.

The problem is he isn't setting up the defense. He is trying to force things.

Joe Montana.

Your assuming Kelce would have caught it- unlike how he failed to do earlier when he had an easy 1st down and last week as well. Kelce is off right now. Pretty easy to see.

Mahomes needs to relax and play better- no doubt, no one is arguing that- but the criticism is getting to ridiculous levels.

just because other people are stupid doesn't mean I am. Pulling Mahomes would be the dumbest thing ever in the history of football.

If you've got an outlet receiver in the flat with nobody within 20 yards of him, you don't throw into double coverage 40 yards downfield. That's not smart. Not when you're struggling to find some efficiency in your sputtering offense. You hit your outlet guy, take the 15-20 yards, and line up again. We're not talking about throwing short of the sticks, we're not talking about playing scared. We're talking about taking the high percentage play, getting the first down. Be efficient. Since when is Kelce open 20 yards down the field and suddenly that's not good enough? What? Throw it to your All-Pro TE, get the first, and line 'er up again.

He's leaving a lot of first downs on the field right now, and arguing against that is just madness. It's madness.

So you want to chuck it 40 yards to Hardman?

c'mon man.

**** Frafrevr and **** Brady. Patrick Mahomes II needs to be more like Patrick ****ing Mahomes II

I don't know how anyone who claims to understand football can actually argue against taking the first down rather than throwing into double coverage 40 yards downfield.

I mean I really don't.

Mahomes is a generational talent, but it's not like he completely changed the rules of the game. Still need 10 yards for a first down. Still have 4 downs to get it.

LMAO you are justifying throwing a deep ball into double coverage and then say we assume a wide open Kecle would have caught the ball???

To Hardman, no less.

I guess we saw different plays. I was right above it. Mecole had a nice gap between the defenders, he had them beat. Mahomes saw it and tried to lead him (maybe too much) but it also looked like Mecole (as he often does, quit on the route) and it made it look like a terrible thrown ball.

Mahomes also had Hill for a kill shot earlier in the game, but shorted it and failed to connect.

Either one of those plays connect- Packers chance of winner goes to single digits.

And if he hits Kelce the drive keeps going and maybe we get points.

Instead we went 3 and out.

I enjoy winning. We won did we not? Ask Mahomes if he'd rather throw 400 yards and 4 touchdowns and lose than win scoring 13 points.

This is ****ing football both teams are paid to win and they aren't playing Madden football every week.


I'd rather win 13 to 10 than lose 44 to 45.

Mahomes is amazing. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone but it’s obvious he’s pressing and was trying to force the big play instead of taking the easy play. I love the aggressiveness but sometimes it’s okay to take the sure easy first down, and I’m sure after watching the film, he’d even admit that he should’ve thrown to Kelce.

Great- you sound so smart with hindsight and endless replays on your side. I explained what I saw- in person at the game- and why I think Mahomes bite on it. But I suppose Mahomes and I are both idiots because the play failed.

Mahomes did hit Kelce wide open- twice yesterday and he dropped them. But Mecole dropped 3- so it doesnt seem to matter what he does.

and one of the other shots he had a back (I think McKinnon) all alone on his left with 20 yards of green in front of him. Like nobody anywhere. Worst case that's a 15 yard gain. Is 15 yards not a good enough play now?

Take the 15, man. Line up on first down and get another.

That 3rd down play he was going to Reek and Reek only. Never looked anywhere else. Never read the defense.

Yes, and you are endlessly bitching about it. How all the other 3 and outs- all day? Is that all on Mahomes too.

Yes, actually they were mostly on Mahomes.

The bad threads are all on Pete.

He’s like a struggling power hitter swinging for the fences every time just hoping to connect.. just needs to keep working on getting those singles and doubles when they’re open. Doing that will open up the big plays he loves going for. He’s shown improvement in that area the last few weeks, and just needs to keep at it.

LOL, I get back from a vacation and the local news is something along the lines of, "Fans questioning Mahomes and wanting him benched"...

I think you are talking about the play that ended the game- yes, that was all on Mahomes.

We did not get points on that drive- but we killed nearly 5 minutes off the clock and never gave the ball back.

Where is the credit for that? Isn't winning what it is all about?

Your Mahomes hate is getting ridiculous. Packers played some damned good defense yesterday.

Mahomes was averaging less than 5 yards a pass and yet you want him to dink and dunk even more? :rolleyes:

I don't know that I have heard anyone call for him to be benched but he does need to get his head out of his ass.

This- they were yelling it in the stands. ROFL

Then Mahomes goes out and wins the game- just like he did last week against the Giants- but all people do is bitch.

Back to back Game Winning Drives- yeah he sucks!!

You got all your excuses...he was averaging less than 5 yards a pass for a reason. Maybe you can figure it out on your own.

Figuring this out yet?

I will give you a hint

3 plays 0 yards Punt
3 plays -1 yards Punt

He got 0 yards on the 40 yard chuck you love instead of getting 15-20 yards on the pass you assume Kelce would not have caught even though he was wide open.

You just illustrated my point. Mahomes was having some trouble with his accuracy all game. In fact, he's been having trouble with his accuracy for weeks now. And it's been magnified the farther downfield he's been throwing.

Here's the question: when your accuracy has been spotty for awhile, is it a higher percentage proposition to throw a 12 yard pass to a stationary Kelce that has a catch radius about the size of a two-car garage, or throw a ball 40+ yards downfield into what amounts to a trashcan moving 15 mph from left to right?

And understand that I don't think Mahomes is washed, or that his problem is just about footwork, or whatever most of the idiots are saying. And I get that his receivers, all of them including Hill and Kelce, haven't helped him much this season with all the drops and tipped passes that resulted in INTs. I even get that at some point he has to literally throw himself out of this funk.

But he also has to win football games. And that throw, among others, was ill-advised under most, if not all, circumstances.

Yesterday Patrick threw for just 166 yds, a 55% completion rate, a sub-5 yard per attempt average, a single TD, and a whopping 43.7 QBR.

If he'd taken just two of those wide open short routes, he'd have thrown for a minimum of 220yds. And maybe another TD.

And beyond that, his job ultimately is not to wow us with crazy deep throws.

His job is to win football games by any means necessary. And that means by taking advantage of the defense before him any way possible.

AND IF THEY GIVE YOU A WIDE OPEN TRAVIS ****ING FUTURE HOFer KELCE 5 YARDS BEYOND THE STICKS YOU TAKE IT WITH A SMILE.

And **** your ego until the next passing play.

Yeah, good thing the defense was able to make a 13 point score stand.....

Yeah, he is tearing it up.....

It’s exhausting responding to people that continue with that nonsense.

Orange Mange rejects (presumably) have started a “Bench Mahomes” petition on Change.org with 300+ signatures.

The rest of the league is scared shitless anticipating when Mahomes breaks the slump and flips the switch.

It might have already happened with that game clinching pass play vs. Green Bay.

I'm not saying that the Chiefs have helped him out by him having an O-line that isn't all that, no threat in the backfield, and a D that's not feared, but he's not producing the points that he did in the previous two years.

He's running for his life (literally), I'll give you that, but the concerns aren't without merit.

I think it happened the drive before when he hit that precise sideline throw to Kelce, and then hit another one to start the last drive. 37 yards on those two throws.

Mecole's drop ****ed it up inbetween.

This entire statement is bullshit- never said I loved it- or assumed Kelce would have dropped another wide open pass.

We get it- you want Mahomes to throw for 400 yards, be perfect AND lead the team to game winning drives-which he has for two weeks in a row.

We have had a rough stretch- get over it. We won ugly and are going to kick the shit out of the over-hyped Faders this week. Another win in which you will be miserable about! :thumb:

Three wins in four weeks and all these miserable ****s can do is bitch.

They would still be bitching if CEH had not fumbled away two wins and we were tied for the one seed.

Just because we are not winning pretty and waaa waaa waaaaa.

These bitches act like they never seen Andy Reid's teams go on a run or something.

Miserable ****s.

I want Mahomes to play smart. Color me impressed we beat a weak Giants team by 3 and a Rodgersless Packers by 6.

And let's look at it what were the biggest plays of the game shall we?

Was his game sealing pass the biggest?

Or were
A missed FG by GB
A blocked FG against GB
A dropped INT by GB

bigger plays?

It was the least Patrick could do to make one pass to get a 1st down considering he pretty much stunk it up for 50 minutes or so.

I enjoy watching this team grow and battle adversity and build character and gut check and the competition making them a better team down the stretch and when they get it together light it the **** up. The sky is not falling they have room to improve and get better as a team and in the mean time pull out wins however they can get them.

Did I say it was the biggest play of the game?? I said- Mahomes lead us on a 5 minute clock eating drive to win the game. Did he not? If Mahomes did not put the team on his back in the end- all those other plays would not have mattered.

Yeah, I wished the entire team played better- but I had a blast tailgating, enjoyed the win and got out of the parking lot in under 30 minutes.. I am going to stay positive, enjoy the win all week and wait for a Fader beat down.

Exactly, did you not like seeing the defense have a spark of life? We know the offense will figure it out and find the right balance between dinking it and chucking it. CEH will be a boost to the running game and Andy knows he needs to call better plays.

We are not losing this division. 6 in a row!

We are still right in the middle of it all-even playing so poorly this year. There is no dominant team in the AFC. We are going on a run! o:-)

meh it was first down and he took a shot. He sees things differently than most QB's do. One thing you notice in that replay is that the safety was flat footed and had his back turned which I think Mahomes saw right before he launched it. Hardman wasn't also double covered the other defender had no play on Hardman or the ball.

I don't know what you consider double covered but by every standard definition of such, he was double covered.

This team was not built to win 13-7 or 20-17. We got away with it the last 2 weeks because we played Daniel Jones and Jordon Love.

He ran into double coverage but by the time the ball got there the other defender was a few yards behind him. Mahomes put the ball on the outside so only Mecole or no one would get it.

It's strange that the division-leading Faders did not "get away" with a win.

And they have MVP candidate Carr- while we are stuck with a guy that can't read defenses!!

Mahomes lead a game-winning drive and Carr did not.

Now do Raiders-Ravens.....

I was much happier with Mahomes pocket presence yesterday. He wasn’t dropping as deep or bailing unnecessarily. This predictably resulted in no reckless passes turned interceptions. Now he just needs to read the field better and make better decisions.

He seems to be determining his throw pre snap at times but if he can make himself do that to what will be a wide open check down like Brady always does he’ll be that much better.

Does anyone want to bet me that Patrick doesn't have another 5 TD pass game this season or two or three? ?


huh. Who here thinks Patrick won't throw 5 TDs in any given game rest of the season ?

He did better in the pocket and didn't run from phantom pressure. But his passes sucked and his reads sucked. He tried to throw an INT and GB dropped it.

He is playing tentative and right now like he is playing not to lose.

Mahomes shoved a red hot poker up your peehole on 3rd and 10.

AND YOU LIKED IT!

So is he playing not to lose or just chugging it for the win- make up your mind.

I know he is no Watson- but you are making him out to be the worst QB of all time. :doh!:

The chucking it up was dumb football. That's him trying to correct everything that has gone wrong with one pass.

Right now he is playing like one of the lesser QBs.

36 points in 3 games.

He is not playing good football right now. And though Clay likes to talk out of both sides of his face, the videos he posted show it.

The question right now is not is there something wrong with Mahomes, but what is wrong with Mahomes? Something is definitely wrong.

Is the answer “he’s going through a slump” sufficient or nah

I think we know he is going through a slump. Question is, why? What is causing the slump and why does it seem to be getting worse?

He went through a similar one in 2019 and I don’t think we ever got a dissertation as to why. He struggled in the red zone, throwing out of the pocket, and against man coverage at the tail end of 2019. He particularly struggled against the Chargers Cover 3 and then had similar struggles when the Niners recreated that cover 3 in the Super Bowl.

No one ended up caring about his slump in the back half of the year once the playoffs rolled around. He just needs some time, sometimes that’s all QB’s need to turn it around.

Oh okay just ****ing ignore this ****ing post . Anyone of you going bet me Patrick won't have another 5TD game? I bet he does please someone bet me he doesn't.

Pete will you take my bet? Bet me he doesn't have another 5 TD game this season. I bet he does Pete what say you? Anyone else want to bet? You all ****ing know Patrick can and will have multiple touchdown games come on bet me he won't have 5 again this season.

He was playing hurt on a bum ankle then. And even so, he wasn't off like his right now. I mean his passes are uncharacteristically inaccurate right now. Behind guys, in the ground, way out of reach on deep balls.

Right now he reminds me of a Pitcher that insists on throwing his sinker even though teams have caught on and quit swinging at it.

The 40 yard pass to Hardman was made out of pride and stubbornness, imo.

Until he accepts the fact that he doesn't have to always have highlight-reel passes every time he drops back I think he will struggle.

When he learns to be patient and carve defenses up with the short to intermediate routes, the deep routes will come back.

Dude, I don't care if he throws for 5 TDs in a game or not. That's not the point. Nor does that mean we will win as we have seen in the past.

I want to see him have a good game. If that means he throws for 2 TDs and we run for 3 then great. Lead the ****ing offense.

I keep saying people saying that if Mecole keeps running then it might be a completion, but what actually would happen is Mecole is 5 yards or more past where the ball lands and the DB probably intercepts the ball. If he's running full speed Mahomes under throws him by several yards.

I'll take that as you know good and well Patrick can turn it on and this team can get back on track . Am I right?

This post ****ing kills me. Patrick Mahomes lead this team to 3 AFC Championships winning two of those Lead his team to SB LIV victory but **** if he has a few bad games in a season that tipped balls on the air cost his team victories but they were precision passes because they hit the hands of his target.


**** this ****ing thread. I bet you don't think we will sniff the playoffs Pete.

Pete isn't even sure Mahomes is a legit NFL QB or a flash in the pan.

Nothing negative he says about Mahomes should surprise anyone after posting that gem.

oh I know it's just Pete but he aggravates the **** out of me with his pre halftime threads when we aren't up 20 points and something not going right it's discussed in game thread but he has to be a negative Nancy or a Karen. Hey mods can we change Petes name to Karen?