Heard this same stupid ass argument throughout Carl Peterson's tenure.

willing a super bowl is not the best way to sell tickets

Consistently making the playoffs and giving the fans 'hope' of maybe winning the super bowl is the safest way to sell tickets.

Really going for a Super Bowl involves a ton of risk and often leads to a rebuild. Risk,risk and more risk.

You can often tell which teams are really trying to win a super bowl and which are trying to maintain consist playoffs by their player balance. If you are really trying to win a super bowl then you have roster full of players on the same career time table. Boom or bust.

The Chiefs have half old/half young so that you never have to fully rebuild. It's the safe 'make the playoffs and see what happens' build.

Peterson made a career of this safe build. You build to make the playoffs not the super bowl. Consistency over potential, a super bowl push is too risky.

You want to give yourself the most chances to win a Super Bowl, consistently making the playoffs is the way to do that.

good enough to make the playoffs

good enough to win in the playoffs


2 completely different things


As a Chiefs fan, if you don't know that by now then you haven't been paying attention.

Was Rishaw part of the waiver seven?

You have to make the playoffs before you can win in the playoffs.

And they aren't completely different things

You are either trying to split hairs to be difficult or you just aren't very bright.


have no idea which

This.

So we're back to the ol', "Clark Only cares bout being mediocre" argument eh?

So dumb. It doesn't even pass the common sense test.

Unless you completely luck into making the playoffs by some crazy easy scheduling, if you make the playoffs, you should be able to win once you get there.

However, just like in any single elimination setting, it's all about matchups.

We'll...you're the one who seems to think that balancing on the edge of Bad/good is the best way to make money.....

No, balancing on the edge good/great is the safest way to make money.

he was a couple days after I think. But still plucked from the Seattle Talent Machine that keeps on churning

He didn't drop due to lack of talent....it was because of character issues.

You said "Good enough to get in the playoffs, not good enough to win in the playoffs".

That's not balancing between good/great. That's balancing between good/bad.

The best way to make $$$ is to build a dynasty. A consistent winner that competes for championships. Doing that creates fans on a national level, which creates more fans as fathers pass their allegiances on to their children. All of those fans rake in Merchandise, increase T.V ratings and overall, makes it easier to negotiate stadium deals....all of it increases the value of the Franchise.

To sit here and say that Clark only cares about putting butts in the seats is downright dumb. It's a myopic view. If Clark's only concern is making money, then he'd make a shit ton more on a National level....not just filling up Arrowhead in one of the least attractive major U.S cities.....talk about short sighted....

The argument makes zero since when you apply any sort of common sense.

http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations...on:asc_search:

This Forbes article squashes any reeruned idea that being mediocre = profit.

The most successful teams with the newest stadiums and largest fan bases make the most money, while the teams with very little playoff success and old stadiums make the least.....Hrmmmm......

If you don't think Carl was trying to win a SB in 93 you're on crack...

If you've geared your team towards making the playoffs, you haven't necessarily geared your team to WIN in the playoffs.

It's like the 90's never happened.

Obviously there are situations where you meet a better team, run into a hog qb playing at a high level, etc you can lose in the playoffs, doesn mean you weren't built wrong.

There's just to many factors involved. The 90s chiefs were built similar to teams who have won SBS, just as the vermeil chiefs were.

However, just as chief fans overvalue comp picks and offensive lineman, they're battered in thinking just because things went wrong for team x in the past, it will happen again.

People start to think that when its gone wrong for 4 decades in a row.

Teams win Super Bowls with their own QBs, not somebody else's.

Teams win Sb's with good QB's, thats for sure.

Teams win SBs with good defenses too.

The Seahawks only gave up 1 draft pick essentially for Whitehurst, no matter how you spin it.

It did, however, take them 4 years to reach, and win a SB.
In 4 years, alex Smith will be 33 years old, and I may have mentioned this before, but only 4 SBs have been won by QBs over the age of 33.
2 2nds is too high price for a caretaker, which is all that Smith will prove to be in your rationalizations.


It's hard to believe that after what the Chiefs did this offseason, that their goal is to just put butts in seats as you claim. If they truly believed that, then why wouldn't they take the safe approach and sign one of their low-priced Guards for cheap? It sure seems to me that what the Chiefs are doing is telling us our primary priority is building through the draft. And I like that a lot better than what we did last year.[/QUOTE]

And I don't want to go on a spending spree.

You keep saying that this team isn't ready to compete.
You're wrong.

They showed over the last 7 games that they can score points.

With a free safety that can play the back end, an ILB alongside DJ that can play all 3 downs, and another pass rusher or 2, this team would be right there.

2 free agents and the draft.
That's all.

I've been talking about the Seahawks model a lot. That also means taking a lot of gambles on QBs until you find the right one. Which is why I'd love for the Chiefs to draft someone like Aaron Murray. I only support what the Chiefs are doing today if they proactively get ahead of transitioning the QB position.

I don't think Smith has to be a caretaker. I don't see why the Chiefs can't be better than 2013 this season, and if Dorsey does his job well, why we can't be very good by 2015. I like our 2015 chances the way we're doing it now a hell of a lot better than our 2015 chances if we bought some pricey free agents this year.

You can either choose to bring in 2 free agents today and have 13 picks the next 2 drafts with an average cap situation.

Or you can choose to focus today's money on extending Berry, Smith, and Houston, pick up 3 to 4 comp picks (bringing us to 16 to 17 comp picks), and start making moves that might allow us to trim out an additional $25M+ in cap space in 2015 on top of an already favorable cap situation. And next year's class could shape up to be outstanding with guys like JJ Watt and Earl Thomas potentially in the mix.

So what's your schtick gonna be next year and the year after and the year after when we're in the same goddamn position we are now?

I don't know why you keep bringing up JJ Watt and Earl Thomas. They wouldn't sign here in a million ****ing years.

You act as if these comp picks are some kind of panacea.

Albert might garner a 3rd, but he also could go down to injury and garner a 6th.

McCluster is nothing special and won't garner more than a 5th, while Jackson and Schwartz are 6th, 7th rounders, at best.

Big ****ing deal.

I'll take the 2 free agents.

Signing a Chris Clemons to play free safety or a solid wr isn't going to seriously effect comp picks

I'm pretty sure the value of their contracts plays a big part in this. McCluster, Jackson, Schwartz, Asomoah all got decent enough contracts that should factor into us getting higher picks than the 5th or 6th you're predicting.

The value of the contracts is only a small part of the equation.

Production is the larger part.

I think his point is the Chiefs keep applying bandaids instead of trading off pieces and doing a full rebuild through the draft as they stated they wanted to do.

There's this thing called the Franchise Tag. Houston and Seattle would never let Watt or Thomas hit the FA market in a million years. Keep ****ing dreaming.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2014/03/2...w-right-guard/

Meet The Chiefs New Right Guard

It may be with a bit of tongue-in-cheek that I say this but, it looks like the Chiefs have every intention of starting Rishaw Johnson at the Right-Guard position in 2014. And, I have to say, I’m not at all surprised.

Now, basing your whole decision on one game, the last San Diego game, would be foolish at best. However, Andy Reid and his staff have had the opportunity to observe Rishaw Johnson on the practice field since the beginning of last season (and before) and I have a good idea that they’ve been playing their hand out this past season, with a card up their sleeves. That card would be Rishaw Johnson… and his performance in the San Diego game only confirmed what they already knew: Rishaw Johnson is a stud.

So, I went back through every play R. Johnson was a part of in that game and you’ll find that re-cap below. However, before we get into the particulars of that game I want to share further what I’ve come to see as the vision for the Chiefs offensive line in 2014.

Firstly, Eric Fisher is the Left Tackle. Now and in the future. The Chiefs didn’t draft him number one overall to leave him on the right side. The Chiefs aren’t paying him the big bucks to leave him on the right side either. Now, you’ll get no disagreement from me that Fisher left something to be desired last season. However, it was clear to most who were paying attention that Fish progressed greatly over the course of the season and needed an offseason of weight training and film room and play book study. Yes, Fisher came in saying he would play whereever the Chiefs wanted him to but his destiny as a first round selection is Left Tackle, let’s not kid ourselves.

UPDATE: If you can’t live with the idea of Eric Fisher being the Chiefs Left Tackle this year, you better contact Andy Reid directly because just yesterday, Ben Nielsen revealed that Andy Reid has named Eric Fisher his Left Tackle when the Chiefs go to camp.

That designation allows the rest of the pieces to fall in place. Stephenson to Right Tackle, Hudson to Center, and Allen (for now) to Left Guard. Some have suggested that Eric Kush played so well in the San Diego game that he might get a look at the Guard spot. The Chiefs need a back-up Center too much to do that at this point. Plus, if the Chiefs have come to the realization that they can use Kush at Guard then they have an interior swing-man but will still need a swing-man for the tackle positions because Stephenson will become a regular.

Rishaw Johnson (RJ) in the last San Diego Game

Most of the time Rishaw Johnson was pitted against Kendall Reyes, a defensive lineman that the Chargers drafted in the second round in 2012. So, Reyes has had 2 full seasons to mature and should just be coming into his own. And yet, as you’ll see, R. Johnson owned him for most of the game including a pancake early on.

#75, Rishaw Johnson, 6-3, 313, Guard, UDFA by the Seattle Seahawks in 2012

vs.

#91, Kendall Reyes, 6-3, 300, DL, 2nd round pick of the San Diego Chargers in 2012

Please note, most Bolded text is a positive play for Rishaw Johnson. The Underlined and Bolded plays are his pancakes. The RED and Underlined and Bolded plays were bad plays on his part which there were very few of. Almost all the plays in this game were either, plays of no consequence on his part or plays of a positive contribution.

Charger’s DL Kendal Reyes, whom Rishaw Johnson faced most of the day, had 2 tackles and 1 sack in the game. The sack came on a spin move and was well deserved. It was a nice move. Reyes has had 62 tackles in two seasons so he averages 2 tackle per game. Consequently, the two tackles that Rishaw Johnson allowed him were right in line with what any average veteran would have allowed Reyes. Assuming that Rishaw Johnson has more room to grow, he should only get better than this performance against Reyes.

However, Rishaw Johnson had three pancakes in all and over half the plays he participated in were positive plays for him. The sack that Rishaw Johnson allowed was followed by 4 to 5 consecutive positive plays on his part. That’s always a good sign, when a young player makes a mistake, to see them come right back and make some plays of their own and not let down.

This non-homeboy take and unbiased analysis may be right on the money. So, far, their talk about Albert, Schwartz, Asamoah and Allen… as far as I’m concerned… have hit the nail right on the head. There’s so much we’re not privy to with respect to G Rishaw Johnson however, we should pay attention to the relative values the Chiefs brass are expressing in the choices they have made this offseason. They didn’t choose to sign Geoff Schwartz, they signed Joe Mays. Would you rather have Joe Mays or Geoff Schwartz? Knowing what I know, I’d take Schwartz like many fans. However, knowing now what Schwartz signed for, we also know the Chiefs could have afforded him… but didn’t sign him. Why? Because the Chiefs personnel team knows something we don’t. Rishaw Johnson is good. Good enough to be given the Right Guard position… at least the chance to lose it in practice. Other wise, wouldn’t the Chiefs have taken some other action at the front of the Free Agency period?

Now, I will not be at all surprised if the Chiefs take a Guard in the draft. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs take a player from any position including QB in this draft. If they’re going to follow through with their vow to take the “best player available” then why should we be surprised if the do exactly that. With that said, if the Chiefs do take a Guard (or a Tackle who they convert to Guard… or take a Tackle who can play RT and move Stephenson inside) in this draft I would not be surprised at all if that choice is to replace Jeff Allen at Left Guard.

Strengths: When I evaluate Rishaw Johnson I see an offensive lineman with tremendous balance. Rishaw uses his hand well. He doesn’t have a great punch but he knows how to use leverage and holds his own when bull rushed. I often notice “RawJo” (what do you think of this nickname? … can’t call him “Johnson” and “Rishaw” won’t do and neither will RiJo, it sounds too much like a Rice-a-Roni treat), anyway… I often notice him sitting in his stance too high while every other lineman on the Chiefs line will have their back more nearly parallel to the ground. What it can mean is… he either is tipping his hand about whether or not it’s going to be a passing play, or he could be giving away leverage when shifting his body into running game mode. RawJo finishes plays and when he gets his man off balance he makes sure they end up on the ground. You gotta love that.

Weaknesses: RawJo doesn’t have an overly big or powerful physical presence. He often chips a defensive lineman and then looks like he doesn’t know where he’s supposed to go, or who he’s supposed to block next. Experience should take care of this but, Johnson will need more work on his run blocking than his pass protection… a plus for Alex Smith, not for JC. However, in the San Diego game Knile Davis had a very good day on the ground. Rishaw will need to learn to not hold on to the defensive lineman’s jersey too long or he’ll be called for holding. In comparison to Rovekious Watkins, who started at Left Guard in the San Diego game, RawJo is far ahead.

Rishaw Johnson reminds me a little bit of Brian Waters and a little bit of Justin Blalock of the Falcons. RawJo is about the same size as Waters and although neither has Superman’s physique, they both get results. Bottom line, that’s all that matters.

After watching the San Diego game through three-plus times, I’m very comfortable with naming Rishaw Johnson the starting Right Tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2014.

I'll be happy for him.....when they don't take a ****ing OG in the 1st round this year.

Teams get rewarded more handsomely if they lose more than they add. We will get that. It is not a panacea, but it gives us a few additional picks where the other does not. All 4 of those guys will start. All earn big money.

A good GM can do big things with those picks.

A good GM *might* might get 1 above average player out of those 4 picks. A great GM might get 2.

Franchise tag? So next year, you want to be sinking 30 million dollars on Smith, Houston, and berry? You want to negotiate their contracts after the massive NFL cap increase vs now? If we play our cards right, we could have a shit load of money to spend next year. A lot more than we had this year by a mile.

And they'll do nothing with it.

Such a ****ing stud he started how many games?...

I would gladly take a quality player and depth, and wait one year to get a free agent than add a free agent now and forego the depth. Are we so impatient about this window that we are afraid to wait even one year at the expense of several picks?

We all know one year turns into 2 and 2 turns into 4.

My franchise tag comment had zero to do with our team and everything to do with the fact that Houston WILL be franchise tagging Watt and Seattle WILL be franchise tagging Thomas.

With Romeo there franchising Watt will be the biggest waste of money in the league...

I'm not sold on Dorsey in the draft either. But it's not even about picks. It's also about whether you want marginal free agents now or wait one year to have the space and flexibility to go after true game changers.

They won't go after true game changers.

It's marginal free agents now or wait one year and sign more marginal free agents.

No way jj Watt will want to stay in romeos system. And hard to believe a player of thomas' calibre wouldn't test the market, especially with the Seahawks having so many big decisions to make soon including Russell Wilson and Sherman. And those are just two of many free agents to hit the 2015 market.

True game changers get the franchise tag...

Even if they do hit the market, they won't sign here.

I don't doubt that they won't do that or flub comp picks. I am giving Dorsey the opportunity to be a good GM and we don't know yet if he is or isn't. A good GM would make good use of the extra picks and massive cap space we'd get in 2015. Again, if he flubs both chances he's not the right guy.

Again, a guy that could make good use of extra picks and was fully on-board with a plan to use the draft to build wouldn't trade 2 high picks for Alex Smith.

They were desperate and it shows.

Let me paraphrase what your rationalizations amount to.

Alex Smith needs to surrounded by talent to have any chance to lead this team to a SB, but we aren't going to attempt to surround him with talent until his realistic window to lead this team to a SB is virtually closed.

Comp picks next year are gonna be worth very little.

A shitload of underclassmen declared for this draft and that automatically thins next years class. When you start off with a thin class, the talent pool drops off quickly.

I can see us getting a possible starter with a third round comp pick from Albert, but the rest might as well get thrown in the trash.

IMO, I'd LOVE IT if John Dorsey sold off about every pick from next years draft for picks in this years draft...even if we lose a lot of value in the process.

My preference is to use next years picks to move up from our draft slots in this draft.

Use next years third to move up from 23 to take Ebron.

Use next years second and this years third to move up from our third rounder to the mid-late second in this years draft.

Use next years first to get a mid to late second this year.

Next years 4th for a fifth this year

Next years 5th for a 6th this year

Let me say this part clearly...there are almost 200 players in this draft class with a third round or higher grade. 200. Think about that for awhile and you will understand why my outside the box idea is ****ing brilliant.

With all of those moves, we would get better players than if we kept our picks and waited till next year.

No way will we be in the same position in 2 years.

Charles
Bowe
Hali
Flowers

These guys will be either gone, or will be a shell of what they currently are.

These guys need to use this draft to bolster this lineup NOW while we still have a chance of winning something with the talent we have drafted and developed.

We wasted Derrick Thomas' career. We wasted Christian Okoye's. We wasted Priest Holmes', Trent Green's, and James Hasty's.

Chiefs way.

I gotta think that other teams are going to be aware of this strategy and also trying to sell off next year's stock as much as they can. Either that, or our trade partners that buy up our 2015 picks are going to devalue them far more than you're anticipating.

For example, if we want to acquire a 2nd rounder in 2014, it's possible they'll ask for MORE than just our 1st round pick in 2015.

They will also free up 30 mill in cap space to buy a replacement if they can't replace in the draft. And while any good GM should be able to replace a guy like Bowe or flowers or dj. Let's not oversell the crisis we are in a few years from now. If we draft well and open up cap space to buy playmakers, we will barely notice the transition.

My scenario assumes we keep pushing for a young QB as Seattle and San Fran did. It also shows that if we play our cards right, we can improve in 2014 and significantly improve in 2015 because of our massive amount of cap space and the depth 17 picks provides to our roster.

Would you agree that if KC can find their kaepernick or Russell Wilson, then what we are doing now is a good approach? It worked nicely for the 49ers.

Transition from 1-and-done to 1-and-done. Of course, nobody will notice.

Your "if" relies on us doing something that we haven't ever done, in the entire history of the franchise.

Dorsey knew this team was capable of making the playoff with a good QB bc there was was a lot of talent already.

You act as if he's pulling a Herm and going completely young everywhere.

I think Dorsey wants to build this team through the draft but keep older pieces as long as he can while adding some veteran free agent players to the team.

well we could have found our Kaepernick or Wilson, when we actually could have ****ing drafted them, but opted to go for offensive lineman or a slow WR that everyone knew was going to be a bust.

So a perennial 1-and-done. Awesome.

Yes. But I'll give Dorsey the opportunity to prove he can. I prefer that over the band aid approach, which is something we always do and it's failed miserably. At least with my scenario, there is hope that might try something different.

The band aid approach?

You mean the VERY FIRST thing Dorsey did when he got here?

Massage it all you want, adding two guys this year is probably a two and done strategy at absolute best.

There is a difference between band aiding to bring the team to respectability and band aiding to create a false illusion that you are a Super Bowl contender. I was not a big fan of what we did last year. But I also know that unlike most band aid situations, we actually set up a really strong cap situation the next two years.

Two-and-done sounds a lot better than no playoff wins in 20 years...

And when they fail to take advantage of it?

Future promises are bullshit. We both know this team NEVER capitalizes on the future...

You sure say when this happens, and when that happens, a lot. If you're so sure of future disappointment, I can't think why you have any interest in the Chiefs at all.

I don't really. I just like talking about it on Chiefsplanet.

I would rather take those chances than lay up on the same approach we've used for years. At least what we are doing this year resembles a strategy a good team might use.

Or a strategy a Herm team might use...

We've been good enough to win in the playoffs several times. For whatever reason it just hasn't happened for us. I still cannot believe we blew the Colts game. I'm sure like most of you, I was celebrating our first playoff victory in 2 decades at halftime. :grr:

Herm and Kuharich had a great strategy if pioli didn't **** up the momentum. But this strategy isn't close to the same thing as what they did.

Band-aid in year 1, try to make the playoffs. Fail and then start over with a build through the draft approach.

It's almost exactly the same thing.

This was as stupid of an comment as it gets.

Of course it is. Almost as stupid as counting on this team to stockpile picks and cash and then actually spend them wisely.

Except they did spend it wisely last year. Oops.

ROFL