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-King- 05-12-2014 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10625479)
Daniel gives you absolutely ZERO upside. If Smith goes down.....Daniel isn't leading us anywhere that Bray or Murray can't take us.
As a backup, you just need to be able to win one or two games IMO. Asking a backup to win much more than that is unrealistic. In that one or two games, I'd rather have Daniel. It's not really about upside at that time, it's just about who I trust more in a emergency situation.

CoMoChief 05-12-2014 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10625479)
Daniel gives you absolutely ZERO upside. If Smith goes down.....Daniel isn't leading us anywhere that Bray or Murray can't take us.
well **** it we should just give up then, if Alex Smith goes down.

hell... ****ing Damon Huard led us to the playoffs in 2006.

jd1020 05-12-2014 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10626196)
As a backup, you just need to be able to win one or two games IMO. Asking a backup to win much more than that is unrealistic. In that one or two games, I'd rather have Daniel. It's not really about upside at that time, it's just about who I trust more in a emergency situation.
An emergency for what? If your starting QB goes down you can pretty much forget about anything meaningful.

-King- 05-12-2014 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 10625209)
Does one start make you an experienced backup now? Kyle orton is an experienced back up. Matt Cassie is an experienced back up. Chase Daniel is a guy who started a game against a fringe team.

Doesn't change that he still has been in the league for 6 years and knew the systems in both New Orleans and here that Sean Payton and Andy Reid both trusted him as a backup. The only time a backup has a lot of playing experience is if he was a former starter that flamed out like Kyle Orton or Cassel. Look at the backups on other teams. Other than those guys, backups don't usually have a lot of playing experience. It's not Daniel's fault that Drew Brees has been healthy every season since he signed with the Saints.

-King- 05-12-2014 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 10626202)
An emergency for what? If your starting QB goes down you can pretty much forget about anything meaningful.
Hence the "one or two games" part. A backup QB should give you a chance to win one or two games.

jd1020 05-12-2014 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10626209)
Hence the "one or two games" part. A backup QB should give you a chance to win one or two games.
And you think a team that basically went 9-0 with little help from the QB couldn't win 2 games with Murray or Bray?

lcarus 05-12-2014 06:08 PM
If it was me I'd cut Daniel and keep Bray and Murray both. I have good reasons for that. The first being that Chase Daniel is a shitty worthless piece of hot smoking litter. The second being that if Alex Smith goes down, we're ****ed anyway so we might as well have 2 young QBs behind him that we can test.

Mr. Laz 05-12-2014 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcarus (Post 10626269)
If it was me I'd cut Daniel and keep Bray and Murray both. I have good reasons for that. The first being that Chase Daniel is a shitty worthless piece of hot smoking litter. The second being that if Alex Smith goes down, we're ****ed anyway so we might as well have 2 young QBs behind him that we can test.
viable point

The only thing would be that if by some miracle we actually improve after losing talent and Alex Smith just misses a game or 2. Losing those games during a final push for a playoff spot would really hurt.

lcarus 05-12-2014 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10626278)
viable point

The only thing would be that if by some miracle we actually improve after losing talent and Alex Smith just misses a game or 2. Losing those games during a final push for a playoff spot would really hurt.
Yeah but even so, I'd rather have Murray or Bray in there than Daniel. How much worse could they be? I mean, we all saw Daniel for what he is last year. Shitty.

htismaqe 05-12-2014 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcarus (Post 10626323)
Yeah but even so, I'd rather have Murray or Bray in there than Daniel. How much worse could they be? I mean, we all saw Daniel for what he is last year. Shitty.
He, along with 21 other 2nd and 3rd string scrubs, almost beat a team that won a playoff game.

htismaqe 05-12-2014 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 10626230)
And you think a team that basically went 9-0 with little help from the QB couldn't win 2 games with Murray or Bray?
With Murray? Maybe.

With Bray? ROFL ROFL ROFL

Easy 6 05-13-2014 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10626564)
With Murray? Maybe.

With Bray? ROFL ROFL ROFL
1 or 2 games? I don't see why that would be impossible...

a) hope the defense plays a good game.

b) simplify the hell outta the game plan, run Charles and Davis a bunch and give Bray half the field to read on passing downs, keeping it simple with plenty of short drops and screens... letting him launch it once or twice a half wouldn't hurt either.

htismaqe 05-13-2014 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10626964)
1 or 2 games? I don't see why that would be impossible...

a) hope the defense plays a good game.

b) simplify the hell outta the game plan, run Charles and Davis a bunch and give Bray half the field to read on passing downs, keeping it simple with plenty of short drops and screens... letting him launch it once or twice a half wouldn't hurt either.
Or you could just play Daniel, run the offense, and win anyway...

Why make wholesale changes to accommodate a guy that really has no future on your team?

Focus on Aaron Murray and forget about Tyler Bray.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 10:04 AM
You will all be riding Bray's sack after the pre-season.
Unless the guy has learned nothing and not progressed at all, it would be dumb as **** to get rid of him.
I like Daniel, but he's all he's ever gonna be.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10626972)
Or you could just play Daniel, run the offense, and win anyway...

Why make wholesale changes to accommodate a guy that really has no future on your team?

Focus on Aaron Murray and forget about Tyler Bray.
You called us winning like 6 games with Smith.
Now we will just "win anyway" with Daniel?....Ok.

ILChief 05-13-2014 10:35 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if bray gets some "injury" during camp that conveniently puts him on IR

htismaqe 05-13-2014 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627220)
You called us winning like 6 games with Smith.
Now we will just "win anyway" with Daniel?....Ok.
I'm not allowed to be wrong?

My point was:

If the defense is playing good enough that "any old QB" could win, as someone asserted earlier in the thread, why "simplify" the offense and make changes to get a nobody like Bray in the game when you could play Daniel (or Murray), win anyway, and not have to change anything?

-King- 05-13-2014 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10626972)
Or you could just play Daniel, run the offense, and win anyway...
Well yeah, but that would be the logical thing to do. So I don't know why you think this sort of thinking has any place on CP.

htismaqe 05-13-2014 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10627303)
Well yeah, but that would be the logical thing to do. So I don't know why you think this sort of thinking has any place on CP.
ROFL

:thumb:

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILChief (Post 10627264)
It wouldn't surprise me if bray gets some "injury" during camp that conveniently puts him on IR
That would suck. We need to know if he is coming along. If not, they need to give him the boot. If so, they need to increase his reps.

htismaqe 05-13-2014 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627315)
That would suck. We need to know if he is coming along. If not, they need to give him the boot. If so, they need to increase his reps.
Agree.

They need to do something with Bray either way. The focus needs to be fully on Murray at some point.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10627303)
Well yeah, but that would be the logical thing to do. So I don't know why you think this sort of thinking has any place on CP.
I don't see what is logical about people who don't think we are going to make the playoffs pissing away developmental snaps and possible live action by giving it to a guy who is guaranteed not to be here next season.
Please tell me how that makes sense?

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10627318)
Agree.

They need to do something with Bray either way. The focus needs to be fully on Murray at some point.
I think Daniel gets in the way of truly evaluating either.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:08 AM
I can tell you now. Reid ain't flipping Daniel for SHIT.

htismaqe 05-13-2014 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627324)
I don't see what is logical about people who don't think we are going to make the playoffs pissing away developmental snaps and possible live action by giving it to a guy who is guaranteed not to be here next season.
Please tell me how that makes sense?
First off, I would prefer that they cut Daniel.

That being said, we know from proof on the field, that Daniel can play well against playoff-caliber competition even with all of the other 1st-team guys sitting on the bench.

We can't say that about either Bray or Murray.

If this team is 9-6 and needs a victory to clinch a playoff berth, are you really suggesting they should start Bray or Murray and "get them some snaps"?

htismaqe 05-13-2014 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627329)
I think Daniel gets in the way of truly evaluating either.
I agree for the most part but also see my previous post.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10627338)
First off, I would prefer that they cut Daniel.

That being said, we know from proof on the field, that Daniel can play well against playoff-caliber competition even with all of the other 1st-team guys sitting on the bench.

We can't say that about either Bray or Murray.

If this team is 9-6 and needs a victory to clinch a playoff berth, are you really suggesting they should start Bray or Murray and "get them some snaps"?
If you prefer that they cut Daniel....are you?
;)

Just Passin' By 05-13-2014 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627324)
I don't see what is logical about people who don't think we are going to make the playoffs pissing away developmental snaps and possible live action by giving it to a guy who is guaranteed not to be here next season.
Please tell me how that makes sense?
How does giving up on an 11 win NFL team in May make any sense?

Chiefnj2 05-13-2014 11:16 AM
Chiefs draft a QB and suddenly there is a leak that their cannon armed fan favorite UDFA can't remember the playbook. The NFL is a cruel business. I'm sure more "shortcomings" will be leaked out during camp.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:16 AM
I would rather have Daniel in that situation, but I feel like keeping the other two is the approach with the most upside.

htismaqe 05-13-2014 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627348)
If you prefer that they cut Daniel....are you?
;)
For me, I don't really care about a 9-win season. That usually means the team isn't good enough to advance.

What it really comes to for me though is that I don't think Tyler Bray is worth anything at all. He doesn't offer much opportunity to actually win filling in for Smith and he doesn't have the upside long-term for the team that Murray has.

If it comes down to deciding between Bray or Daniel, I just can't really make myself care. The only reason I would lean towards cutting Daniel is because of his cap number.

EDIT: All I was really saying in my previous response is that I can understand the logic coming from people wanting to keep Daniel.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 10627352)
How does giving up on an 11 win NFL team in May make any sense?
I haven't done that. I feel we will make the POs. Do I think we will win a GD thing without AS...No.......Hell NO.
If Chase comes in and loses valiantly, as I'm positive he would,
Jack would come of it.
If Murray or Bray come in and sling it valiantly in a loss, Reid could flip that ass for a 3rd, and we would still have the other guy next season.
Regardless, Chase will be gone. And we will need another QB.

rico 05-13-2014 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 10627353)
Chiefs draft a QB and suddenly there is a leak that their cannon armed fan favorite UDFA can't remember the playbook. The NFL is a cruel business. I'm sure more "shortcomings" will be leaked out during camp.
First thing that went through my head when I noticed this thread.

beach tribe 05-13-2014 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10627356)
For me, I don't really care about a 9-win season. That usually means the team isn't good enough to advance.

What it really comes to for me though is that I don't think Tyler Bray is worth anything at all. He doesn't offer much opportunity to actually win filling in for Smith and he doesn't have the upside long-term for the team that Murray has.

If it comes down to deciding between Bray or Daniel, I just can't really make myself care. The only reason I would lean towards cutting Daniel is because of his cap number.
I can see where you are coming from if that's your line of thinking.
I would actually like to see Murray and Bray duke it out for the #2 spot the other guy getting the 3.

Here is my line of thinking.....
I think if Chase was out of the way and those snaps went to Murray he could come in and play as well as Chase Right Now.
If Bray is also still progressing you still have your high caliber project at 3rd QB.
Or you keep Chase, reerun Murray's development, and lose your HQ Project.

Seems simple.

Just Passin' By 05-13-2014 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 10627377)
I can see where you are coming from if that's your line of thinking.
I would actually like to see Murray and Bray duke it out for the #2 spot the other guy get the other.

Here is my line of thinking.....
I think if Chase was out of the way and those snaps went to Murray he could come in and play as well as Chase Right Now.
If Bray is also still progressing you still have your high caliber project at 3rd QB.
Or you keep Chase, reerun Murray's development, and lose your HQ Project.

Seems simple.
Unless you're already quitting on your season, you don't get rid of the player who gives you the best chance to win if Smith goes down. And you don't just expect a rookie to beat out the established player without actually seeing real signs of it.

Seems simple.

patteeu 05-13-2014 11:32 AM
The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.

rico 05-13-2014 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 10627382)
The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.
Exactly...especially if Murray goes PUP.

Chiefnj2 05-13-2014 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rico (Post 10627361)
First thing that went through my head when I noticed this thread.
Yep. Only time Bray got extended time was game 4 against GB and he threw 3 TDs.

Easy 6 05-13-2014 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10627303)
Well yeah, but that would be the logical thing to do. So I don't know why you think this sort of thinking has any place on CP.
Blow me, Daniel has the exact same amount of time in this system as Bray and he has exactly 1 more games worth of experience.

Its not cut and dried enough to take a swipe like that, Bray costs much less and has far more upside... is he as quick on the uptake as Daniel, probably not, but there was never any rush with the guy in the first place.

If Murray jumps all over the 2 spot in camp, great... but theres just no reason to give up on that kind of arm talent after one year, Daniel isn't worth his paycheck.

-King- 05-13-2014 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10627672)
Blow me, Daniel has the exact same amount of time in this system as Bray and he has exactly 1 more games worth of experience.
He has also been in the league for 6 years and was the backup for Drew Brees. I'll take that small amount of experience any day as a backup.

Quote:
Its not cut and dried enough to take a swipe like that, Bray costs much less and has far more upside... is he as quick on the uptake as Daniel, probably not, but there was never any rush with the guy in the first place.
I don't ****ing care about upside to be honest. Bray best case scenario to be honest is being a career backup like Chase Daniel. It's FAR more likely that he'll be out of the league in a few years than he becomes a backup for 6 years like Daniel has. If Alex is injured and has to miss a couple games, I'm far more comfortable with Daniel going in than with Bray. And that's what we need out of a backup. A player that can come in in an emergency and that knows the system and can still run the offense without needing to dumb down everything.

Quote:
If Murray jumps all over the 2 spot in camp, great... but theres just no reason to give up on that kind of arm talent after one year, Daniel isn't worth his paycheck.
Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.

BigBeauford 05-13-2014 01:59 PM
I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.

-King- 05-13-2014 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeauford (Post 10627756)
I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.
He shit the bed?

Which game? http://i.imgur.com/GZZrMk9.png

And it's funny you talk about Daniel playing 2nd/3rd stringers when Bray played against 4th stringers and guys that were about to be cut in the GB game.

Easy 6 05-13-2014 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10627735)
He has also been in the league for 6 years and was the backup for Drew Brees. I'll take that small amount of experience any day as a backup.


I don't ****ing care about upside to be honest. Bray best case scenario to be honest is being a career backup like Chase Daniel. It's FAR more likely that he'll be out of the league in a few years than he becomes a backup for 6 years like Daniel has. If Alex is injured and has to miss a couple games, I'm far more comfortable with Daniel going in than with Bray. And that's what we need out of a backup. A player that can come in in an emergency and that knows the system and can still run the offense without needing to dumb down everything.



Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.
You make plenty of solid points, but I also think you're totally undervaluing raw talent, very young raw talent at that... Matt Cassel backed up Tom Brady for several years, how much good did it do him?

Bray is the definition of a project, everyone knows that... but if Murray comes into camp and wows with his ability to grasp the system/shows good instincts, as most seem to think he will, then I and others would rather keep the guy with the higher ceiling while cheering on Murray at #2.

Theres good logic for both arguments, that's why I took exception to the "no logic" thing. You like a more, overall, experienced Daniel and that's fine, but its no excuse to tell Bray fans they're a bunch of logic lacking fools, either.

Easy 6 05-13-2014 02:06 PM
Bray came into the GB preseason game midway through the second, I really doubt it was the very bottom of the barrel 4th stringers throughout.

Tribal Warfare 05-13-2014 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeauford (Post 10627756)
I think people forget Daniel shit the bed nearly all of preseason. So which Daniel do we get? The bed-shitter against 2nd/3rd stringers, or the one who managed a game against first stringers. Bray looked fantastic in the GB game, and received heaps of praise during TC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10627782)
Bray came into the GB preseason game midway through the second, I really doubt it was the very bottom of the barrel 4th stringers throughout.
Here's the thing too it REALLY pisses me off when I hear that he's having difficulty assimilating the playbook. It infers that he isn't applying himself well enough to fully understand and absorb whats being presented. I've hailed his praises about as much as anybody, but I've also said that there is a caveat about him too which is he needs to get his shit together.

If he doesn't have that self encompassing competitive drive to get better like a Peyton Manning,Tom Brady,and Marino then he's ****ing up.

scho63 05-13-2014 02:36 PM
Tyler Bray: "me like football. me throw ball far. me like girls too. me no read books"

Easy 6 05-13-2014 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 10627834)
Here's the thing too it REALLY pisses me off when I hear that he's having difficulty assimilating the playbook. It infers that he isn't applying himself well enough to fully understand and absorb whats being presented. I've hailed his praises about as much as anybody, but I've also said that there is a caveat about him too which is he needs to get his shit together.

If he doesn't have that self encompassing competitive drive to get better like a Peyton Manning,Tom Brady,and Marino then he's ****ing up.
You're preaching to the converted, yes... if he isn't applying himself or truly is dumb as a brick, then him and his big arms gotta go no doubt.

But its also important IMO not to take this "leak" as the Gospel Truth.

Saccopoo 05-14-2014 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 10627382)
The Chiefs should make a concerted effort to make Tyler Bray attractive trade bait this pre-season. It would be great to get something by unloading our own version of Elvis Grbac on someone.
It would be great if the Chiefs made a concerted effort to make Aaron Murray an attractive trade bait this pre-season. We've already got a short, noodle armed QB on the roster that doesn't have a crappy release, average athletics and questionable decision making.

Let's see...what would I rather have as a potential Chiefs QB:

6'6", 235 lbs. with great overhead release and an absolute cannon for an arm...

From NFL.com:

Quote:
Strengths:
Bray uses his height to adequately survey the field and see over his offensive lineman, yet he also displays the flexibility to bend and reach for low shotgun snaps. Bray has elite arm strength, and generates this power through a consistent rotation of his hips. His throws are often tight spirals, and the velocity of his throws allows him to beat defenders to the spot. He shows the ability to manipulate the pocket, and change his arm slot, while still delivering accurate throws.

Weaknesses:
An extremely thin build, and won’t contribute much as a scrambler. His gamed is mired with tremendous inconsistencies, mostly rooted in a poor feel for the intricacies of the game. Accuracy and footwork can go array at any point in the game. Takes to many unnecessary risks. Has a tendency to stare down his targets. Did not develop in his Junior season as many had hoped.

NFL Comparison Jay Cutler

Bottom Line:
Based on pure arm talent, Bray is an extremely impressive quarterback prospect. However, his arm talent only resulted in a few standout plays amongst a season of poor decisions, and maddening inconsinstencies. An NFL team that drafts him will be doing so based on their faith in cleaning up the many aspects of Bray's game that leave much to be desired.
Sac's completely objective summary:

6'6" dude with a cannon and a great release. You can't coach up arm strength. You can coach up decision making and timing.

Chiefs Planet's reeruned summary:

He was an UDFA. He must suck. I can't wait until we spend a draft pick on a QB.

or

6', 207 lbs. with a poor release on a marginal arm...

From NFL.com:

Quote:
Strengths:
Has a quick release and is light enough on his feet to escape the first wave and make some plays on the move. Solid decision-maker -- takes what the defense gives him. Fine short-to-intermediate accuracy. Good intangibles. Encouraging team leader with a likeable personality. Leads by example. Serves well as the face of the program. Outstanding work ethic. Is very intelligent and football smart. Experienced, four-year starter in the SEC.

Weaknesses:
Short and short-armed with a low release point that leads to batted balls. Very small-framed with a thin waist and a body that is not built to withstand the punishment that comes in the pocket. Average arm talent. Has to set his feet and everything needs to be perfect to function well. Could stand to improve his footwork. Marginal deep-ball accuracy -- tends to overstride and forces receivers to adjust. Many passes are pre-determined and often throws to spots. Loses poise under duress and can be rattled easily by pressure. Gets too jittery and anxious (overanalyzes) in big games and has a very low winning percentage vs. top-10 teams. Long-term durability is concerning.

Bottom Line:
Diminutive, game-managing pocket passer still recovering from a torn ACL. Would benefit from a moving pocket that can create open throwing lanes, yet does not have the foot quickness desired for a rollout passing game. Possesses a skill set most ideally suited for a backup or No. 3 role. Intelligence, intangibles and experience are all pluses.
Sac's completely objective summary:

Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel

Chief Planet's reeruned summary:

HOLY SHIT!!! We drafted a QB!!1!11! He's going to be the starter by mid-way through the season and we'll have our very own homegrown QBOTF!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!1!11!!wtfomgpwnzr!!!lololololo!!1! NFL Comparison: Joe Montana at his very best.

You guys are so ****ing hardup for any QB the Chiefs draft to be "the man" that you are willing to discount and dismiss what we already have on our roster just because we took one guy in the draft and the others we did not.

patteeu 05-14-2014 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629284)
It would be great if the Chiefs made a concerted effort to make Aaron Murray an attractive trade bait this pre-season. We've already got a short, noodle armed QB on the roster that doesn't have a crappy release, average athletics and questionable decision making.

Let's see...what would I rather have as a potential Chiefs QB:

6'6", 235 lbs. with great overhead release and an absolute cannon for an arm...

From NFL.com:



Sac's completely objective summary:

6'6" dude with a cannon and a great release. You can't coach up arm strength. You can coach up decision making and timing.

Chiefs Planet's reeruned summary:

He was an UDFA. He must suck. I can't wait until we spend a draft pick on a QB.

or

6', 207 lbs. with a poor release on a marginal arm...

From NFL.com:



Sac's completely objective summary:

Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel

Chief Planet's reeruned summary:

HOLY SHIT!!! We drafted a QB!!1!11! He's going to be the starter by mid-way through the season and we'll have our very own homegrown QBOTF!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!1!11!!wtfomgpwnzr!!!lololololo!!1! NFL Comparison: Joe Montana at his very best.

You guys are so ****ing hardup for any QB the Chiefs draft to be "the man" that you are willing to discount and dismiss what we already have on our roster just because we took one guy in the draft and the others we did not.
My Bray summary:

Reincarnation of Elvis Grbac. If you're willing to suffer through several years of boneheaded play, he might develop into a serviceable starter but he's unlikely to ever be a devoted student of the game and he just might decide to bail on you rather than re-sign just about the time your investment is starting to pay off.

I don't care about drafting a QB. I'm fine with getting a QB through any means whether it's 1st round pick, late round developmental flyer, UDFA, trade, high priced free agent, etc. Tyler Bray just hasn't shown any sign, going back to his college career, that he's the field general and leader that I want behind my center. If the Chiefs coaching staff can turn him around, that's great, but I'm not optimistic. So watch where you're pointing that "you guys".

Saccopoo 05-14-2014 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10627735)
Arm talent is so overrated it's not funny. Bray's talent is that he can throw far. So what? His decision making and accuracy are not even close to NFL level. In the NFL, seeing as how less than 10% of your passes will travel more than 30 yards in the air, you don't actually need a cannon.

Using the #2 spot for Bray just because he has a big arm is a waste of a spot.
Wrong.

It's not about how far you can throw it, it's about getting the ball to the right spot as quickly as possible.

Defenders can adjust on a whiffle ball.

duncan_idaho 05-14-2014 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 10627379)
Unless you're already quitting on your season, you don't get rid of the player who gives you the best chance to win if Smith goes down. And you don't just expect a rookie to beat out the established player without actually seeing real signs of it.

Seems simple.
Elementary, even.

As for why it matters he went undrafted, here's why it matters to me:

Bray has picture perfect physical abilities for his position in the NFL, and he was shitty enough at all the other aspects of things he went undrafted in one of the weakest NFL drafts in recent memory.

Even with a staff with a strong history of working with QBs, I'm skeptical those massive flaws can be overcome.

Saccopoo 05-14-2014 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 10629309)
My Bray summary:

Reincarnation of Elvis Grbac. If you're willing to suffer through several years of boneheaded play, he might develop into a serviceable starter but he's unlikely to ever be a devoted student of the game and he just might decide to bail on you rather than re-sign just about the time your investment is starting to pay off.

I don't care about drafting a QB. I'm fine with getting a QB through any means whether it's 1st round pick, late round developmental flyer, UDFA, trade, high priced free agent, etc. Tyler Bray just hasn't shown any sign, going back to his college career, that he's the field general and leader that I want behind my center. If the Chiefs coaching staff can turn him around, that's great, but I'm not optimistic. So watch where you're pointing that "you guys".
You have no goddamn clue about Bray showing any sign of anything. Year one in a new system at the NFL level as the #3 QB. Your "optimism" or lack thereof is so premature you need to put it in an incubator on oxygen.

Oh noes!!!! Aaron Rogers didn't beat out Favre again this year?! Release him!!

kcchiefsus 05-14-2014 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629339)
You have no goddamn clue about Bray showing any sign of anything. Year one in a new system at the NFL level as the #3 QB. Your "optimism" or lack thereof is so premature you need to put it in an incubator on oxygen.

Oh noes!!!! Aaron Rogers didn't beat out Favre again this year?! Release him!!
kill yourself

Saccopoo 05-14-2014 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcchiefsus (Post 10629356)
kill yourself
Go **** your mother.

patteeu 05-14-2014 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629339)
You have no goddamn clue about Bray showing any sign of anything. Year one in a new system at the NFL level as the #3 QB. Your "optimism" or lack thereof is so premature you need to put it in an incubator on oxygen.

Oh noes!!!! Aaron Rogers didn't beat out Favre again this year?! Release him!!
:spock: Bray demonstrated his boneheadedness for 3 years at Tennessee.

I get it though. You've fallen in love with his strong arm and you've got a thing for the way he vacantly stares into your eyes when you gaze upon his publicity photos. :rolleyes:

duncan_idaho 05-14-2014 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 10629360)
:spock: Bray demonstrated his boneheadedness for 3 years at Tennessee.

I get it though. You've fallen in love with his strong arm and you've got a thing for the way he vacantly stares into your eyes when you gaze upon his publicity photos. :rolleyes:
Yeah.

If you watched the guy play much at Tennessee (and saw him struggle to consistently make good decisions and accurate throws when playing in a very QB friendly system that basically asked him to read one side of the field only on each play), I think skepticism must follow.

FringeNC 05-14-2014 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629284)



Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel
Come on. Does Chase Daniel have anywhere near average NFL arm strength? If Murray does, calling him a poor man's Chase Daniel is ridiculous.

chiefscafan 05-14-2014 10:09 AM
I'm of the thinking that they all compete and may the best person win.


http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/...psz43r7wh7.jpg



Adopt a chief 2014
Aaron Murray

saphojunkie 05-14-2014 10:10 AM
I'm of the thinking that they all compete and may the best person win.

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/...psz43r7wh7.jpg

Adopt a chief 2014
Aaron Murray

chiefscafan 05-14-2014 10:13 AM
Yeah stupid iphone double posted

BlackOp 05-14-2014 10:35 AM
I think most are missing the reason why KC drafted Murray....They are planning to release Daniel in 2015. Murray is a cheap alternative. This was a salary cap pick.

There is no way the Chiefs face the NFC West without an experienced backup this season. They obviously don't think Bray is going to pan out into a #2...

Reerun_KC 05-14-2014 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOp (Post 10629471)
I think most are missing the reason why KC drafted Murray....They are planning to release Daniel in 2015. Murray is a cheap alternative. This was a salary cap pick.

There is no way the Chiefs face the NFC West without an experienced backup this season. They obviously don't think Bray is going to pan out into a #2...
Only grown men who like to touch underage boys on their private parts feel Bray is a legit NFL prospect.

RealSNR 05-14-2014 11:41 AM
Jon Gruden is far from a football genius, but if there's one thing his QB Camp shows do, it's take people inside what an NFL team sees in terms of a prospect's personality, coachability, and temperament when they do pre-draft interviews. And more often than not, the QBs that seem impressive in these one-on-ones (Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Cousins to name a few) wind up finding at least some success at the next level, even if it's only spare.

Tyler Bray's QB camp interview was the worst one I've seen since Gruden started doing that show.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/C6xyrpGx0yE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

saphojunkie 05-14-2014 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefscafan (Post 10629410)
Yeah stupid iphone double posted
You deleted the dupe post! Now my joke is meaningless and unfunny. Before it was just unfunny.

bowener 05-14-2014 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629339)
You have no goddamn clue about Bray showing any sign of anything. Year one in a new system at the NFL level as the #3 QB. Your "optimism" or lack thereof is so premature you need to put it in an incubator on oxygen.

Oh noes!!!! Aaron Rogers didn't beat out Favre again this year?! Release him!!
So you compare an UDFA to a 1st round pick that most experts felt had fallen much lower than expected? Not to mention that Rodgers was sitting behind a HOF QB, and all time great that was still playing better than most. Seems like a fair comparison.

Mr_Tomahawk 05-14-2014 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10629284)
It would be great if the Chiefs made a concerted effort to make Aaron Murray an attractive trade bait this pre-season. We've already got a short, noodle armed QB on the roster that doesn't have a crappy release, average athletics and questionable decision making.



Let's see...what would I rather have as a potential Chiefs QB:



6'6", 235 lbs. with great overhead release and an absolute cannon for an arm...



From NFL.com:







Sac's completely objective summary:



6'6" dude with a cannon and a great release. You can't coach up arm strength. You can coach up decision making and timing.



Chiefs Planet's reeruned summary:



He was an UDFA. He must suck. I can't wait until we spend a draft pick on a QB.



or



6', 207 lbs. with a poor release on a marginal arm...



From NFL.com:







Sac's completely objective summary:



Midget game manager with average arm and athleticism with durability concerns, but his teammates think he's a swell guy. NFL Comparison: Poor Man's Chase Daniel



Chief Planet's reeruned summary:



HOLY SHIT!!! We drafted a QB!!1!11! He's going to be the starter by mid-way through the season and we'll have our very own homegrown QBOTF!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!1!11!!wtfomgpwnzr!!!lololololo!!1! NFL Comparison: Joe Montana at his very best.



You guys are so ****ing hardup for any QB the Chiefs draft to be "the man" that you are willing to discount and dismiss what we already have on our roster just because we took one guy in the draft and the others we did not.

Holy shit!

Your best post ever here.

I'm going to rep you in your mouth when I get on my computer.

Mr_Tomahawk 05-14-2014 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 10629557)
Jon Gruden is far from a football genius,

I quit reading here.

bigbucks24 05-14-2014 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10623234)
Reid doesn't really give a flip about size, he's used undersized guys throughout his career... Detmer, Garcia, Kolb, now Murray... I'm sure theres more.

I'm on your side with Bray, but don't look to his size as some kind of saving grace...
Kolb is 6-3
Detmer is 6-0
Jeff Garcia is 6-1


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