I say we retain Berry, DJ, and Hali on a fairly team friendly deals. Keep Howard and franchise Smith. It's a given most RFAs are retained. I predict we use the franchise tag on Smith.

Shit yeah. I'm all for tagging him. No problem what so ever.

Get over it. Never going to happen.

Fat Andy will demand toys and fatties for the offense.

you are correct. pugsnotdrugs19, random 14 year olds. insightful,

That is more emotional than fact. KC played better with him out last season...if you lose an "impact" player your team should see a tangible decline in production. Like losing Maclin, DJ or Houston.

If Maxwell just got paid 10.5 mil a year, better believe that Sean is going to easily get at least 12. Franchise tag for CBs last year was $13 mil, I suspect that's probably going to be at least $14.5 mil or so next season.

I don't know BO, I get your point but because of the emergence of the " athletic TE who plays like a WR type player in the last 10-15yrs because more teams are drafting these type of TEs, the safety position is just about as important as a shut down corner in covering these type of TEs. And when you look at the Chiefs especially this year our defensive play against TEs is very very good because we have talented depth at that position as some of you have stated.

His last two first round picks were pass defense-oriented.

I would love to keep Sean Smith, but his price tag will skyrocket. Flowers got a $9.1m avg/yr offer from SD and he's a midget. Byron Maxwell just got a $10.5 avg/yr deal from Philly.

It's almost guaranteed that Sean Smith will get $10m avg/year or higher with his value to this league.

I'm of the opinion that no matter what you do with Smith, you draft a CB high in this draft.
Mr. Direkshun will be illustrating this as well as I will: the CB class for the 2016 draft looks as good as any we've seen in several years.

Dorsey has definitely shown a desire to solidify that position.

There are teams out there that have to give stupid deals to reach the salary floor (see: Oakland and Hudson). I could see the Browns giving him that much if Schwartz bails out (hint: he will).

Here's who I see sticking around:
Berry (No way he's leaving. A fan and franchise favorite.)

DJ
Hali
DeVito

I see them taking team friendly deals to stay at home, and with a contender.

Zombo
West
Sorensen
Williams
King

Cheap.

Abdullah

A good player in the secondary.

Maybe they keep Howard. Will depend on what he wants.

I think they want to keep Sean Smith, but he's hitting hitting that point where he's going to get his only shot to cash in on a big money, several year deal. The Oakland Raiders will have something like 75 million dollars in cap space, and will suck a cock for any good CB. I wouldn't be shocked if they offered him a deal near Revis territory. Will Dorsey match Revis figures? No, probably not.

Branch might stay if they can't keep Abdullah for some reason. Otherwise, I see him trying to latch on with a good team for better dollars.

I believe the Chiefs will have the room to go after a FA or two. Mohamed Sanu, Travis Benjamin or Marvin Jones would make a lot of sense. The lack of anything worth a shit at WR beyond Maclin is very noticeable.

i think you like children.

Yeah, because the Chiefs have never taken a CB in the first round!

It's one thing to shell out more money for dependable, reliable players.

Allen doesn't fall into that category.

Holy shit for the last ****ing time we are not cutting the best player on our team and a future HOF in Charles. I will bet both my balls he will be a Chief for life

Yes, but I can see a team doing that. I wouldn't give him a big deal by any means, and it would have to be heavy in incentives.

The problem we've had every single year with this regime is rebooting and starting new players at new positions across the OL.
We finally have our starters locked up at every position next season, depending on how they feel about Grubbs.

Losing Jeff Allen won't hurt. Losing Grubbs and Allen shouldn't hurt. 2nd round G should be able to do a solid job and see no loss in production.
Andy might even get that guy in the first knowing his love of fatties.

Well I guess we win either way on that bet.

It's really about attrition...Chiefs dont have a Branch or Abdullah waiting to take Smith's CB spot. ..Gaines is an undersized slot corner...just like they dont really have someone to cover DJ's position. IMO that makes Berry expendable...if it comes down where the money needs to go. Serviceable safeties are..obviously... much easier to find than 6-3 press corners.

That's not my point at all. It's not going to happen because we are spending HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on this defense. You can't just keep patching the offense with some duct tape, thus unless there is some crazy talent sitting there at CB or MLB, we going to invest in the offense with this next draft. There has to be some balance, and Andy Reid is our coach.

Why are people ok with letting Berry leave because of money, but refuse to let go of JC? Which one has been more instrumental to the teams success this year? If anything, JC has proven to be the easiest to replace out of all of the high-paid starters.

This team is skating by because the vast amount of talent on defense, why not keep adding to a strength?

He's also the easiest peice to replace through the draft.

KC needs to invest heavily in O-line...which is stating the obvious. MLB is the only other position I see the team needing...and that is a "grooming" move. I'm not sure KC needs much on the skill positions...it will take a #2 WR at least a year to grasp the playbook.

Dorsey doesn't even need a draft pick nowadays. Just pick one off waivers or a UDFA like Ware or West.

Agree. Where we are going to be drafting we will be in prime position to take a RT.

The best thing anyone can say about a teams GM

Because Berry isn't as good as Charles....I dont think that's even up for debate. I DO however think losing him helped this team reevaluate how to use him...way too much of a crutch and stunted the passing game.

Think of it like this...if Denver had either Berry or Charles..who would you rather not see twice a year?

No he doesn't, so KC should really just pass. He's going to get at least 4 mil a year over 3+ years. There are desperate enough teams dumb enough to think he just needs to be in their conditioning program.

As for the O-Line, I think they seem set at letting Jah Reid be the Right Tackle. I'm wondering if they seem content with Frenchman and Fulton as the Guards and just anticipate both dudes just need more playing time.

Thats not the issue at hand though, this is about the better player for KC. You got a full dose of JC last year, and one of Berry this year, which one mad a bigger impact to the Chiefs and their success?

Jah Reid just got a 3 year, $10.2 mil contract to solidify tackle depth and can be a spot starter. Do you feel Jeff Allen isn't worth just as much if not more to this team than Jah Reid to supply essentially the same role?

Do you even know what the f**k you're saying right now?

It's pugsnotdrugs, not drugsnotpugs you moron. Literally do not understand what you are bitching about, and I'm not sure you do either.

Allen would easily get $4 million per as a full time starter at right tackle or left guard, if he had played at least 30 of the last 32 games.

The problem is that he's played in 11 of the last 30 games, many of which he couldn't finish.

Jeff Allen isn't worth anything on the bench.

I'd keep him if the terms are good, but are you willing to give the guy possibly 5 mil a year when he's good for missing a lot of games?

You keep JC....he's one of the best RBs I've ever seen. Now if Berry was the second coming of Ronnie Lott...or Ed Reed...he was billed as such but he's not at that level..getting paid like it though.

If KC decides to move Charles..there will be 31 teams inquiring.

The best thing about Dorsey is that he's always looking to upgrade the roster, regardless of the position.

Outside of Fisher and Morse, I don't think anyone's job is safe.

If Jeff Allen is broken, why would we try to bring him back cheap? Why even at all if that's the case?

Geoff Schwartz and Branden Albert are both broke dicks who we let other teams overpay in free agency and replaced with draft picks. I can easily see that happening with Jeff Allen this spring.

Andy told Gannon and Kevin Harlan in their production meetings Saturday that he feels LDT is playing the best of any offensive lineman right now for him.

Alas, your future RG

I'd suppose it comes down to how they stack needs and what they can get value wise.

I could see them making upgrades on the line, but also feeling okay if it doesn't happen.

Maybe I am being a little too generous, but Fulton hasn't looked terrible at LG to me.

At a good rate, Allen is a very nice rotation guy and the durability isn't as concerning if he isn't starting.

Schwartz and Albert wanted starting pay, and I am sure Allen will also be looking for the same.

He's my personal favorite Chief of all-time, I also think he's top 10 ever talent-wise. But right now, his presence aren't as beneficial to the team as Berry is. Berry is the heart and soul of the team right now, and Charles' production is being replicated with two non-draft picks.

I personally want him to go somewhere else to a more reputable team like the Pats or Panthers so the national media will give him some love and more people can see the greatness we have been blessed to witness the past 8 years. Just have to be ok with accepting less in a trade for him than what he's really worth.

I kind of feel like a broken record but i can't understand why the line isn't Fisher/Morse/Fulton/LDT/ then a free agent or draft choice.

It's kinda odd but Fulton is miles better as a center than as a guard.

That would be the best choice, really.

I think that line up with Mitchell Schwartz at RT would be a good ass line.

You could say the same about Berry..his production can be met by his back-ups. This is about next season..not 2015. His story is a great one but it's pinned to this season.

I think "Berry is the heart and soul" of this team a bit idealistic. They arent winning because of his pep speeches..they are winning because Dorsey is a rockstar at building depth. Berry hasn't made very many game changing plays... I would say DJ and Tamba are equally a steadying presence in the locker room...along with Reid.

A vet minimum contract with incentives for each game played would be ideal for Allen.

If he can't play another game this season, it's unlikely he could find a better deal elsewhere.

Berry is one of the 3 best safeties in the league this season. We wouldn't be as good without his run defense and pass coverage.
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You guys trying to move Morse from a position he's good at to accommodate an iffy player are no different than Reid for moving Fisher to RT for Stephenson.

Of course they would, for next to nothing. You don't get much for a 30 year old running back with an acl in both knees. It doesn't matter what he had prior to.

That means nothing really to be honest. He's just talking up his player IMO. LDT is not playing better than Morse, Allen or Fisher.

:facepalm:

LDT deserves the RG spot next year. He's getting better.

Somewhere along the way, morons like you forgot that it takes time for players to get really good. If they had their way, we would have given up on Allen Bailey, Jaye Howard, Derrick Johnson, among others on our current team. And that's not even counting players like Dante Hall, Brian Waters, and Tony Richardson from past teams.

LDT played football at ****ing McGill. He may as well have been playing a ****ing completely different sport for ****'s sake. Quit your bitching and give him a goddamn chance. He's currently playing at an adequate level with the occasional glaring mistake. Those will be eliminated in due time.

$3m still has incredible value to us with what we are facing cap wise. So let me ask you what you'd rather spend the $3m on:

Husain Abdullah or Jeff Allen?
Tyvonn Branch or Jeff Allen?
DJ or Jeff Allen?
Mike DeVito or Jeff Allen?

I think I would rather use $3m on all of those options over Jeff Allen every time.

Yep.

I think DJ's being undervalued quite a bit here.

Our ability to play so many Nickel groupings is due in large part to DJ's ability to be elite in both coverage and run support. In many ways, he's like having an extra player on the field.

You take DJ out of this defense and we'll have to play a lot more base defense on first and second downs to keep the run D from getting gouged. In terms of their impact on the team, I think DJ's arguably the most important guy to keep around.

For the next 2 seasons, I'd go:
DJ
Smith
Howard
Berry


That being said, the next 2 seasons aren't the only thing that matters. Moreover, impact on the field also isn't the only thing that matters. When you consider the next 5 seasons as well as the impact on the franchise at large, it does change things a bit. At that point I think you have to say:

Howard
Berry
DJ
Smith

Smith is just so damn important to this defense. At the same time, he's going to be 29 next year and the wall is coming soon enough. If you could get him on a deal that you can escape in 2 years, I'd say you make the move. That said, that just doesn't seem terribly likely. He'll probably end up the top FA corner on the market.

I guess you look at Byron Maxwell's crazy-ass deal and you can see that it's really just a 2 year deal for $22 million w/ an easy escape hatch after year 2. Truth be told, I'd probably just franchise him instead.

If it were me, when you look at the combination of cost and impact, I think DJ's the guy I'd target first. He's going to be more affordable than Howard and you know what you'll get from him. I think his impact on the defense is greater than anyone else's in the short term and retaining him shouldn't be cost prohibitive. Then I'd look to Howard and finally Berry. But really, you pretty much just keep the lines open on all 3 of those guys and try desperately to structure deals in a way that would allow you to tag Smith as well.

Games played incentives are considered 'likely to be earned', I believe. Though it may be a little different for Allen because I think the designation depends on how a guy did the previous year. Since Allen was hurt so often this year, bonuses based on things like 'playing 70% of offensive snaps' may be deemed NLTBE.

That said, he's looks to have appeared in 10 games this year so that's going to be the baseline for next season. At least 10 games worth of incentives will be considered 'likely to be earned' incentives and we'll have to clear space for them up front.

The LTBE incentives count against your cap but perhaps Allen's injury history in 2015 would make it possible for us to structure the deal with a lot of NLTBE incentives that we'd have to pay for at the end of the year rather than clear space for beforehand. The 'percent of snaps' benchmarks are probably going to be considered NLTBE given the number of games he played in but not for the entire game. I'd imagine his percentage of snaps taken this year are well below 50%. The problem is that to make the deal palatable for Allen, you can't make the incentives too hard to reach and you can't make them all or nothing (i.e. $2 million if he plays in 70% of the teams snaps; he'll likely prefer something like $100K per game played; the first 10 of which would be LTBE).

Honestly, I think Fulton makes Allen something of an afterthought. The line is substantially better when Allen is in and playing well, but we can't let getting him extended hamstring anything else at this point.

Holy shit.....you're a ****ing idiot.

You wanna chill your shit real quick? Maybe tell me where I said I didn't like LDT in that post? Cause I literally said nothing that suggested I had a problem with LDT playing. Nothing.

I still think it's hilarious someone said Belicheck would never pay a safety 9 million per year when he just did last aummer

What's more interesting is how the Bills use McCourty - they use him a LOT like the Chiefs use Parker.

If you look at the deal the Pats gave Chung, that's more in line with how Belichick would generally pay a 'pure' safety, IMO. But the Pats have lined McCourty up at CB and in the Nickel on occasion.

Truth be told, I don't think the Pats would give Berry the kind of deal that some are suggesting because I don't think he's as capable in coverage as many are giving him credit for. He's a great run-support safety that is average to maybe slightly above average in coverage.

I don't think that's worth the kind of money that a great coverage safety would be worth. To me, he's a slightly better version of Kam Chancellor. Now ultimately I'd say the market would support a $9-$10 million AAV for that level of player, but the market will support a lot of things that I don't think are wise.

But seriously, the 5/$25 we gave for Parker looks like a steal to me.

Ehhhh. Berry has been much much better than average in coverage this gear, IMHO.

Jaye Howard is way better than people talk about ... must keep.

Sean Smith we have ZERO replacement options for ... must keep.

DJ we have zero replacement for but the position is easier to find ... important keep

everyone else is based on money:

Berry - we have safeties all over the place. Dorsey finds cheap and effective safeties every year. If you pay big for Berry is because leadership impact. You only go so high imo.

Allen if he's dirt cheap, we still need to have an option because he can't stay healthy. Is he even worth a roster spot consider the injuries?

I like Branch better than Ron Parker

Devito if he's cheap

we need more corners, less safeties

Right tackle is another key, rather not have jah reid as a starter

#2 TE (**** you, Harris)
CB x 3 (goodbye Fleming and Cooper)
MLB (replacing DJ pretty soon)

LDT is improving each and every week. The only hope we really have on the line is the ****ing LG spot! Fisher has been nails this year and same with Morse. LDT is improving and so is Reid. Just need a adequate LG. Remember guys we don't need a superstar at every position. With Smiths running ability we just need someone who is average

They should keep wverybody and expand on top of what they have.

Get some more DBs in here that would give us depth and that could play the nickel and dime slots.

Draft some more offensive lineman for depth and that are starting material.

I would draft another WR that could compete with Conley or Wilson that could either start or solidify depth with respect to the position.

Draft an inside linebacker that's better than Mauga and could start and that has tremendous upside.

Draft, draft, draft and draft to solidify depth and to have some young up and comers. Keep everybody. I like this nucleus we have. We need to get better if we want to compete and win a Super Bowl in the future jabronis.

Yes, parker has been a great sign, as have the other 2 safeties.

I don't know what the market has for berry. Just have to let it play out.

I th8nk k it's a little optimistic to think there's any chance Sean smith is here next year. He's getting 10 million per, pretty easily I'd imagine. At 29, that's a tough pill.

I feel like 2017 may be another 'comp pick bonanza'.

Look at it this way - Chase Daniel is going to get signed to a decent deal by somebody. Maybe he'll get a chance to start, maybe not, but a team like the Cowboys aren't going to let another season get away from them because they were forced to play Matt Cassel. I'd be shocked if Daniel couldn't swing an AAV in the neighborhood of $5 million/season at this point and if he does, that becomes a legitimate shot at a 4th round pick. Allen may get a Schwartz deal. Smith will get a massive offer from someone.

We really could be looking at another 3-4-5 scenario and that sure would be a nice thing to have in our pockets and something that we should consider when planning the roster going forward.

Something interesting to consider when you look at Dorsey's approach to building a roster. And it's an approach I really like. Dorsey seems to prefer locking low positional value players to short-term deals. Fanaika, Jah Reid, Mauga... even looking at deals he gave to Demps and Branch. Meanwhile, the big money contracts and high draft picks have gone mostly to playmakers. I think his approach is... I'm going to give you more money early because you fill a gap, but we're going to try like hell to replace you.

When you look at fanaika, mauga, reid, parker, even Grubbs.... these deals are easy to back out of by the 3rd year. Some of them even sooner. So that hints at how we'll approach the offseason. He'll probably attack the bottom of the list by convincing them to take front-loaded deals with easy backouts. If they won't do it, he'll walk away so we have to be prepared for a few of these guys to walk.

As long as we bring back DJ, Berry and Howard.....and then build more depth in the draft....I'm perfectly fine with that.

I look at the utter annihilation our defense suffered when Sean Smith was not playing. We even had Gaines and it was still a disaster.

And then you have Marcus Peters and...

Gaines off an ACL
unknown Steven Nelson
Jamel Flemming
Marcus Cooper

Yikes. Keeping him will be very difficult but maybe Dorsey can work his magic.

Smith is the kind of guy that a smart GM walks away from, I know.

We got a screaming bargain on him over his prime years (Clay, once again, is an idiot). If he never played another down in KC after 2015, that contract would have worked out as perfectly as you could ever hope for a FA contract.

Now he's on the downside of his career (CBs don't age well at 30ish) and he's going to be looking for one last big pay day. Inertia, which I'm falling victim to here as well, would say that you simply can't let the guy get away with what he's been able to do for the team.

But yeah, that kind of money for an aging corner is risky business and could very easily blow up on you. It's probably best to walk away, but if you do it, you'd better build up a ton more depth in the draft.

Really, the best case scenario to me is to franchise the guy. If you can fit his tag # under the cap, draft another CB to build depth in the secondary and then get him for one more season, you have to do it. He'd flip shit over it (because going into the market at 30 is not nearly as marketable), but he won't sit out.

I figure one of branch and abdullah ends up starting somewhere, although it's something I think we should look at when worrying about our depth at corner.

All of our safeties are very comfortable covering in the slot.

If Gaines can come back and play outside, I'd look at using Sean Smith's money to sign those safeties and another lower tier cb, along with drafting one.

Who do you bring back? Abdullah or Branch? Or do you let both walk and draft a safety on day 2?

I wouldnt be opposed to tagging him. Gaines going down hurts because from where I sit, he was groomed to be the other guy there.

Id love to keep smith, he's a great fit on this defense, I don't think he'll be as good anywhere else.

But $ talks.

We're in win now mode, so keep as many of the contributors as possible.

Honestly, I'd bring both back, but that probably means you lose berry.

I think abdullah stays, branch is gone (which sucks because I like the guy alot) and berry may stay.

If we run into the Pats somewhere, branch is gonna be huge in terms of slowing gronk.

What are we going to do without Sean Smith next year?

Peters is fine
Gaines is still so unknown and then probably a slot guy

then what?

Cooper again? fleming?

You pretty much have to have 2 edge guys to run Sutton's scheme.

Sean Smith leaving pretty much locks us into a 1st round CB next draft.

Let's not forget that Abullah will be 31 next year and Branch 30. Neither of them are going to be guys that a ton of teams are chasing as long term starters. You look at how quickly a guy like Donte Whitner fell off and it has to make you pretty skittish about using a guy that age as a starter.

When you can utilize them in spot-duty, the age isn't as big a deal, but I just don't know that teams are looking to pay substantial sums for 30+ yr old safeties.

Nah, Gaines has the skills to be an edge player. It's just a question of his development.

That's true.

If you could get them both in for 2 years, and around 15 mil, I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Actualky, probably less money.

Also, at some point you rely on your coaching and development to fill gaps.

We can't pay Sean smith 10 million per for 3 or 4 years

base on what?

not what he's done so far

Way too much. Overpaying for mediocrity will kill you more than overpaying for starters, IMO.

We got Abdullah and Branch this year for about $3 million total (after all incentives for Branch are paid). You're talking about more than doubling that and spending $7.5 million/season on a pair of backup safeties.

That's what the draft is for. That's enough money for a genuine every down starter. That's the kind of move that costs you Howard or Berry. Try to bring one of them back at 2/$5 million and fill the other one with another Branch/Demps or draft pick.