The last time we had one specific position group embarrass the team this bad was the OL in the TB SB and look what KC did.

Signed Thuney and drafted Creed and Smith. They also traded for Orlando Brown.

I expect Veach to have a similarly aggressive plan for the WR position this offseason. Sign a top tier WR, draft a WR in the first 2 rounds and come back and draft a sleeper a few rounds later.

They need to get RR out of the room and nuke it.

Good point. The contract negotiations with potential trade target would be problematic considering all the big time free agents of our own we need to deal with, and that's why getting a slightly above average free agent or two and drafting a guy high seems the route they'll take. I don't feel like there is some established superstar that's going to make his way to the Chiefs in the offseason, unfortunately.

Top 5 potential FA WR next year, per PFF who will / can we sign?

• Tee Higgins
• Michael Pittman Jr.
• Mike Evans
• Marquise Brown
• Calvin Ridley

Source; https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-nf...wide-receivers

Of those, Brown and Ridley are the only 2 that probably even make FA.

I think Evans will as well. Unless they find terms in the short pre-free agency window, and that seems unlikely.

It’s similar to the Jones situation with the Chiefs.

Still think the free agency market will be friendlier than we think. Tampa is a classic example. They’re getting baker for free and seem intent on giving him a large deal. They have cap space but after years and years of punting on the cap to load groceries for Brady, they have to basically re-sign their entire team.

Even if we don’t get tee Higgins or Pittman, some team will pick them up which will make it harder to pay their other guys. I think we’ll see a little of this reset this year but in the coming years it’s going to get HARD considering the crazy amount of WR talent that are still on rookie contract.

Then you're faced with the dilemma Jones is staring at - who is going to pay premium bucks for a guy on the other side of 30, if not the original team?

Otherwise known as the Christian Kirk Principle.

Maybe I havent seen enough colts film but I never penciled Pittman in as a strong fit. And most of what ive seen of higgins hes not an a+ fit. I'd say Hollywood or Ridley are more ideal. Ridleys still on a rookie deal because of suspensions, So he will want to be paid. But I think he checks all the boxes. He knows the offense a little after a run with Pederson, can threaten anywhere on the field and doesnt have a drops problem that im aware of.

Ridley is 29, Veach ain't giving him a big deal...he hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire this year either.

Higgins is a great fit but I think Cincy tags and trades him (they ain't trading him to us) or just flat out tags him...

That still doesn't answer how you plan on getting there? 2 teams that are within 10-15 absolutely will not trading with us, Denver and Las Vegas. That leaves 3 picks, which I'm sure not many teams want to help us move up in the draft for a receiving option for Mahomes. So you are likely left with the option to overspend to move up. We have 6 picks this year at this point. The amount of positions that will need to be addressed in the offseason through FA and the draft, I can't see how trading away picks to move up for either short or long term goals will equal success for the short term, or the long term. If we are going to be trading picks for WR's, I'd rather trade away the 25th pick for WR in FA that can hit the ground running than a draft pick.

His up and down year probably makes him a canidate for a funny contract with inflated incentive numbers to make him feel like hes in the big market while having some weird years in year 31,32..

Pittman would be a no brainer as you get an automatic #1WR that’s entering prime.

Just don’t see Indy not paying him anymore, they love him.

He's all they got on the outside with a 2nd year QB returning next year...yeah they ain't letting him go lol.

Tag and trade is gonna happen. They can’t afford him with Burrows Godzilla contract and Chase is gonna get extended to the moon. Lot of pieces will move in Pissinatti to keep team intact.

Can they afford to tag him with all the contracts they have due? They should be in a situation similar to us with Jones. Except Higgins should have a much bigger market.

We missed moving up for Zay Flowers last year. We need to focus on getting our star WR for the future now. If there’s a guy we can move up for get aggressive if he’s special.

I would say something but this place goes insane when I bring up a certain someone's name that we already had and wasn't just a star but a unicorn...

He also plays for a team we beat and didn't get another ring while we did. So Hill isn't some SB team leader.

We need 3 good WR's. Not one super star eating up the cap. Hurts has two star WR's and he still struggling.

1 of those WR's is on a rookie contract and the Eagles run a high school styled offense...

WR is a position that gets paid, and if you want 2 more good WRs that costs money.

Based on estimates, with the current cap space and the total cap going up next year, the Bengals have the 6th most money to play with, 68.7M. There are only 2 potential playoff teams that have more. The Colts and Texans and both have a QB on a rookie deal for multiple years to come.

The Chiefs have less than half that. 30.5M and Mahomes hit over the next 2 years is 57 and 60M.

Burrow's hit next year is only 29M. The next 2 years after that, while the cap is still going up, his hits are only 46 and 48M. He doesn't hit 50+ until 2027.

I don't know why people think the fix at WR is top WR that we need to trade for and pay, a 1st round draft pick, and another draft pick.

Calm the **** down.

We have Rice, lets just tap the breaks on him and say he's a really nice #2 wr on a rookie contract with lots of upside.

We still have Travis Kelce. Ok maybe the mileage is getting high, but he's still ****ing phenomenal.

If you sign a FA, like a legit FA like Evan, you have fixed most of your problems. Yes still invest another high draft pick in the position, like a 2nd or 3rd rounder cause you need a LT too. Anyway, the key out of this mess is free agency and nothing else.

That does not matter unless Veach lets it matter.

Unless I am reading Over The Cap wrong, they are in a lot better shape than we are. Burrows only counts 29 million next year. They have 38 players under contract. And 68 million in cap space.

Mahomes counts 57 million against the cap next year. We have 36 players under contract. One of them being Jones. Jones has an 80 dollar cap hit, but a 5.4 million dead money thing going on. And we have 35.8 million in cap space.

I'm not sure we are doing anything massive in 2024. We have way too much invested in 4 or 5 guys, and we really can't get out of much of it for a couple of years.

KC Over The Cap:
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/kansas-city-chiefs

Bengals Over The Cap:
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cincinnati-bengals

Mahomes has a cap hit of 28 million in 2028.

So Veach can just use that number for Mahomes next year.

Sure, you can keep pushing money around but it doesn't just disappear. Ask the Saints and Steelers how much fun it is constantly renegotiating contracts.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2024/

Take a look at the bottom of that list. Teams that keep giving out bad contracts like they're candy and pushing money around every year, **** themselves in the ass with a rusty crow bar.

Not keeping higgy he gone

I'm not sure how that works, but extending guys has us in this position. We have to get away from this IMO.

But that's exactly what other teams are doing with their QB deals. Push the larger cap hits as far down the road as possible. Lamar's a good example of it. Very large cash flow with pretty low cap hits compared to the cash.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...TYuC/giphy.gif

You can't just pick and choose a different year to pay someone in the upcoming season. The entire contract has to be re-done and all that money eventually comes due.

You gonna pay a 37 year old Mahomes 75M for a couple years?

You may have a Vert Peach but we have a Tuke Dobbins and a Baity Clackburn.

You can't just pick and choose a different year to pay someone in the upcoming season. The entire contract has to be re-done and all that money eventually comes due.

You gonna pay a 37 year old Mahomes 75M for a couple years?[/QUOTE]


thats what I would do

We have Rice, just draft someone who has the possibility of contributing right away, and sign a veteran or two.

All I really want to see is them spend a 1st on a quality WR who isn't an undersized tweener

Mahomes has a 34 million dollar roster bonus that they can convert and spread out if they want.

Hunt has to write a check for it and it has to be done by a certain date, I don't remember when with teh new contract.

That doesn't take into account Jamarr Chase's $30 million record breaking APY contract he's gonna get this Spring. And I bet you guys try to tag Tee Higgins to keep him for 1 more year. Sure you have $68 million now but at least 1/3 of that is directly going to Chase so it's what you think it is.

5 of the 6 Chiefs highest paid players are gonna look different soon.

Mahomes
Jones-letting him walk
Kelce-retiring soon, probably after next year
Thuney-next year is most likely his last year
MVS-100% gone after this season

Frank Clark is officially off the books after this year too. They will have money from those guys opening up. And sure they're probably gonna give it to Creed, Sneed and Bolton but they'll be long term deals to spread out the hits and be backloaded.

Mahomes contract shouldn't permit them from spending. And I think they will redo his contract in 2026 again to help with his cap hits.

If you are expecting a draft pick to contribute immediately that's fools gold with WR here.

It's absolutely what we need to do if we want to keep this thing rolling.

I couldn't care less if Mahomes retires in 10 years and $100 million in dead money hits the cap. The Saints and Steelers both actually recovered pretty quickly, it's not as big of deal as some make it out to be. When you have a QB like Mahomes, you play for the now, not worry about 10 years from now.

Why not? That's still prime age for QB's. The salary cap will be much larger in 2032.

Hell, Lamar is supposed to have cap hits north of $70M in 2026 and 2027, but I guess we will see what kind of manipulation Baltimore does to get out of it. They're already dodging the cap from 2023 to 2025 with him. $156M of cash vs. only $98M of cap hits for those 3 seasons.

We gotta do something, can’t just sit on our asses again and hope the draft gifts us a great WR.

Your option is probably Calvin Ridley, luckily most teams in the NFL have 1 if not 2 pretty good WRs so we should be able to make that happen.

Jerry Rice!

No, you don't have to restructure the whole deal.

Look at the roster bonus. You just convert that and that money moves over the rest of the contract.

Simple accounting changes.

Yes, the Ja'Marr hit will be big, but not for a couple more years.

As you guys already know, you need to manipulate and strike while the iron is hot, because if you miss, you could end up screwing yourself royally a couple years down the road. Getting that hardware makes all the cap shuffling worth it.

This is what posters like Mahomes Magic need to understand. Veach can't do a damn thing about Mahomes roster bonus because it's not a cap thing.

Clark has to write a check for that restructure to happen. He is the deciding factor here.

Saints and Steelers are still in cap hell. You can "recover" every year, it just takes a lot of work and is a hell of a lot harder to maintain a championship quality team without a whizkid in the front office. Even then, all that money has to be paid eventually.

Jones is a free agent.

He's gone. We are not going to tag him. We are not going to trade him.

Its over for him in KC.

Other teams have figured out how to cheat the cap. Jalen Hurts is getting $259M of cash with a cap hit of only $173M across 6 seasons. Somehow Philly is finding a way to cheat the cap by $86M during that time period. He only had 1 year left on his rookie deal, so that's not the primary driver of their cap savings in his contract. Look at these numbers:

2024 is $40M of cash, but only $13.6M cap hit
2025 is $42M of cash, but only $21.8M cap hit
2026 is $51M of cash, but only $31.8M cap hit

QBs skyrocketing salaries is gonna make the next 5-7 years very interesting.

If Clark Hunt can't pay his players then sell the team or trade the QB.

I doubt Mr. Hunt agrees with that. The NFL gives these teams free money every year.

That doesn't even seem possible, the Chiefs really need to dig into how teams are doing this shit. If Mahomes is over his willingness to take a team friendly deal, we need to start circumventing like everyone else. Don't really care what happens 10 years from now.

They don't even have to be that aggressive.

Just keep Mahomes under 40 for a few years as cap rises then be willing to overpay hits on a down cycle.

So if we rebuild 4 years from now after winning 2 more rings load Mahomes hits to 75 then.

What happens to the 5.4 million of Prorated Bonus's due to Jones? 1.35 million per year for 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027. Won't that be 5.4 million in dead money against the cap in 2024?

Even if they are in cap hell, they are still competing. Plus, I'd still do it in a heartbeat if it meant more Super Bowls.

Wouldn't you feel the same? You have a generational QB, do you really care if you have a few sucky years after he's gone if you can win a couple chips? Seems like the only way to go for teams like KC and Cincy.

Time is now.

I said this last offseason.

QB's prime is historically to 31 years of age.

Kelce still here.

Go get it.

Yes, you absolutely can throw anything and everything and the kitchen sink at fixing the WR problem and no doubt fix that one problem.

If all you want to do is make sure that Mahomes has weapons and the fan base feels you are trying to address 'issues', well I'm sure it will keep butts in seats at Arrowhead.

But if you want to maximize your chances of winning SBs, you have to juggle more than one thing at a time.

Instead of taking the approach that we are going to bring in an expensive vet and an expensive draft choice and a semi-expensive vet... in order to guarantee a solution to one problem.

If you want to maximize your SB odds, you got to take calculated gambles to several problems. And hope enough work out. And look a little further out than last games latest disaster.

I sure as hell hope Veach doesn't panic and put that much into WR.

And you guys in hindsight were/are whining about how much KC's RT is eating the cap versus production and you want to dump that much into WR all at once regardless of value?

Sure, if good value is there, I'm not opposed. But the overpay is what gave us Taylor at his current contract and you can't just know that decently priced vets and/or good value draft picks will automatically be available without over paying or not drafting BPA or giving up too much to move up in the draft.

Other teams seem to be using void years in a creative way. Tampa did this with Brady too. He was being paid $35M of cash with cap hits around $15M because of the void years.

Cleveland handed Deshaun Watson a fully guaranteed contract at $46M of cash per year, and yet his cap hits have only been $9.4M and $19M in the first two years of the deal. I know they added void year stuff after the fact to help cheat the cap as much as possible. Supposedly his cap hits will be jumping north of $63M very soon, but we'll see what other tricks the Cleveland front office has up their sleeves.

They need to pay some real NFL players at WR.

That's it.

Right now they aren't paying one guy that Mahomes wants to throw to.

The Chiefs did have a perfect contract in place paying him a team friendly contract. They were on track to pay Patrick Mahomes $46.7 million, $48.3 million and $44.4 million from 2024-2026.

Mahomes came to the table and wanted more money. And Clark Hunt is paying his ass $210 million in the next 3 years after this one, so anyone getting pissed at Clark Hunt can **** off bc that's the most any player has ever made over a 4 year span.

Mahomes agent said that him and the Chiefs will plan on revisiting the contract again once those 4 years play out.

Anyone bitching about how much Mahomes makes should point the finger directly at Mahomes bc the Chiefs had the awesome team friendly deal in place to help the cap.

Mahomes chose to go with money and I bet more than anything he regrets it after what's happened with his WR's this year.

Oh I have no problem with an extended period of cap hell after Mahomes is gone and would be sort of disappointed if that's not the case.

The question is...

why didn't they do that when they rewrote it last year?

None of this has anything to do with his cap hits. They can change those.

That was the whole point of the unique contract and length.

Yes, they need to do something. But it can't be the only thing.

I think Veach and Reid got high on their own supply.

Both undervalue the WR position and they thought they could moneyball it even further.

They add DHop at 10-12 cap hit this year and one more viable NFL WR this team walks to the AFC Championship at Arrowhead for 6th straight year.

No, of course not. But they spent all these picks on defense so now we have a good, young cheap group of players there.

We only need to pay Sneed.

There's nothing wrong with Moneyball in theory. Moneyball is playing for a SB.

They swung for a SB and it looks like they missed.

But I want them to keep playing Moneyball, just re-evaluate, not panic.

I'm fine with doing it on defense because our scouts naturally hit there and we have Spags who can manufacture a good defense with just a few paid players and draft picks.

But no more with the WR position, they aren't good at it.

They did have an extremely cap friendly deal already in place and Mahomes wanted more.

Part of the reason Brady won so much was because he took less money. Mahomes chose money and have his cap hits raised to have his average per year bc what the other paid QB's are getting.

I hope Mahomes is happy taking more money bc it's gonna be really gonna be hard for this organization to move forward with less money and picking late in the draft every year.

I'm not sure if you are the one I necessarily disagree with.

But I don't think the team can afford...

At least if your goal is to win SBs

...to trade a first for a vet that will also need a big contract. Or to give up a lot of draft capital to move up high in the first.

You need cost controlled talent on rookie contracts with Mahomes contract.

But I do agree that weapons are needed especially since Kelce is clearly past his prime.

Lamar Jackson is being paid the same amount of cash as Mahomes over this time period, yet Lamar has legit weapons and a legit defense as well. Lamar numbers:

2023 to 2025 features $155M of cash, but only $97M cap hit. So $52M per year of cash and only $32M per year cap hit. His cap hits are supposed to jump above $74M in 2026 & 2027, but we will see what happens. Baltimore will probably have some tricks up their sleeve to dodge those higher cap hits.

Look at it this way. If I told you we take Zay Flowers from the Ravens and put them on KC and that makes us the #1 seed and likely we beat them and go to the Superbowl are you ok with paying that 1st round pick plus another pick to get that difference maker on rookie contract that is cost-controlled?

We aren't building. We are the defending SB Champions in our prime window.

So use draft capital to get the future star WR that can play next year AND sign a FA vet WR older on a 2 year deal high that expires.

Brady didn't start the massive discounts until later in his career, conveniently after he married a supermodel with a net worth above $500 million. At one point he was the highest paid guy in the league before he got into his 30's.

Mahomes was drastically underpaid for years. Go take a look at his cash flow in 2020, 2021, and 2022. Then go take a look at the cash flow of other dudes who signed new contracts going back many years (even before Patrick's contract in 2020). His signing bonus was only $10 million, which is a joke. Dak Prescott received $75 million in Year 1 of his new contract. Lamar just got $80 million in Year 1 of his deal. These guys have stacked rosters around them despite the cash going into their pockets.

I told people to watch Baltimore and they just took our #1 spot while they showered their QB with weapons while we took our QB weapons away.

And they're paying Lamar the same cash, so you can't argue that the money for Mahomes is the problem. Poor evaluation of receivers (including MVS/Toney/Skyy), a rookie WR coach who looks like he just graduated high school, overpaying Jawaan Taylor $20M per year, etc.

Trading a first for a cost controlled WR is different than giving up a first for a WR that immediately requires a new makert rate contract as part of that deal.

Sure, if in this off season you could get Zay for KC's first and another pick...

Have at it...

We aren't getting Zay Flowers but this draft is supposed to be better so we better be digging in and looking.

If we can get a comparable player to Zay you move up. Veach said no one wanted to let him trade up but I doubt he was willing to pay more.

A #1 WR on a rookie contract is the missing piece we need to transition to the post-Kelce Chiefs. We need to be ready.

So I don't know much about those teams. Are they more 'all in' for a short window and will be in bigger cap hell than KC in a few years?

Absolutely.

49ers have a 2 year window when you look at their cap hits.

They pushed all chips in to win with Purdy this year or next.

Most teams aren't that aggressive.

We don't need to go crazy but we also can't have Mahomes at 57 million next year.

That's handicapping ourselves in our golden window.