Spending is worthless if we don't draft well.
Nothing else really matters.

The first step is not freaking out if we think a guy like Rishaw Johnson might be worth a look at starter just because he was cut or hasn't started a single game. Especially for positions that aren't that important. If we keep buying replacements, we'll never have the kind of trust to let cheap young talent prove their worth.

This is such a great post.

So many people here seem to point the finger at these young guys from the 2013 class without letting them have the chance to play things out in their due time.
Some of these guys haven't even had the chance to play yet.

Maybe because up to this point, those same guys, against nfl competition, have shown to be either mediocre, or injury prone, or both.

They may end up being great, or they may keep sucking. For the chiefs sake, I hope it's the former.

Like it or not, the NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Guys don't always get their due time.

And Johnson has started a game and looked damn good doing it.
Also got a ringing endorsement from the guy he's going to be replacing, who said, he improved tremendously throughout the season.
Dorsey hit on some young castoffs like Cooper. He very may well have done it again.
G is probably the position of lowest positional value, and they seem to think this guy can do. I'm very interested in seeing if they are right.
G isn't like T. Sometimes all you need is JAG at those positions.

Hilarity concerning A. Smith

Check out NFL.com 05 draft do over

Notice who the chiefs pick

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...writers_brooks

There was seemingly no drop off in production in the SD game when Johnson filled in for Geoff S.

If they were doing this with just Johnson, that's one thing.

But they're banking on a lot of young unproven guys.

The whole "looked good in the SD game" stuff is great and all, but that's a pretty damn small sample size

Between Kush, Rokevius Watkins, and Rishaw Johnson, we need for one of those guys to hit to neutralize losing Schwartz. I'm fine with those chances and it's even possible that one of those guys also unseats Allen or Hudson. And agree... worst case scenario, you have a bad Guard. Least of my worries.

This is literally what the Steelers and Packers have done for so long.

Dorsey has a ton of confidence. He's got balls. I'll give him that.

I don't see a problem with that. And one of those guys, like Commings, has to be a shade above terrible to be an upgrade over Kendrick Lewis. The only guy we should worry about is Eric Fisher, and there's lots of reasons to believe he won't be as bad as people think he'll be.

With his ability to play center and the fact that he's bulked up this offseason, Kush will end up being the swing guy inside

No, not quite.

They had guys with a little more experience to step in.

Just as there are as many reasons to think he will be just as bad as some think.

They're banking on getting solid production from at least 4 guys right now, at pretty important spots none the less, who haven't really ever produced anything.

Pretty risky

Agreed.
I'm willing to give the guy a chance before shitting on him though, being the only sample we have is a positive one.

So what do we do with Eric fisher?

I see no reason, considering they do draft well, which is what our success hinges on that we can't pick up some viable competition at G in round 5 on.

Pray lol

(unless you are Dave Lane)

Let them play. If they can't play get rid of them. Stockpiling backups that everyone's high on as long as they're not guaranteed to play is stupid.

Actually, from all I've read, this years class gets pretty thin at guard after about the 3/4 round

Ha.

2014 will be disastrous. We actually have to play a legit schedule this year

Some great observations on this post, but I think we should all keep one thing in mind. Dorsey has a very smart football mind. He gets up everyday and thinks, "how can I make the Chiefs a better football team". We all get up and go do our job and get home and crap ourselves about what hasn't been done. As I said before we really only lost one guy I would have kept, Schwartz. Other than that, with the depth of talent in this years draft, we are going to get some good players out of it. Talented veterans are going to be cut due to money issues and we'll have an opportunity to go after them.

Reid is a good football coach and knows what he needs to build a winning football team. We got a QB that showed us all he has brass balls and is willing to do what he has to to win. The playoff loss was not on Alex. With a good QB and Jammal Charles, adding a couple of decent receivers and a CB and safety we should be in decent shape. No we didn't go after the BIG names like Dungver but I didn't want to. You don't spend the future of your team for short term victory, we were not that close anyway. Dorsey and Reid are doing it the right way, through the draft and waiting for the right veterans to be cut and they will make their move. Guys have a little faith. We finally have a good front office that has knowledge of what we need. Chill and enjoy the off season We just might be really good next year, maybe not win as many games based on the tough schedule, but we will be a better team. Just my 2 cents.

Most of their stars are players they drafted.

Did you not see the difference in Manning's arm from game 1 to game 19?

Thin just means that there won't be many available. Doesn't mean there aren't any available. Again, it just depends on how well you draft, and how well your scouting department has done their job.
It's also impossible to tell how deep a class was until those players have gotten some play in actual games.
Sometimes it's obvious, like it is with WRs, other times you just don't know from draft evaluations from media outlets.

The backups plate great for 1 ****ing half they scored 3 points in the second half and blew a double digit lead way to go backups!

Ok

So do most teams, but they don't gift positions to players who have a small limited number of snaps in game play starting spots very often.

We have no idea how the season will play out.

Teams that draft well do it all the time.

And there is no indication that this guy will not have to earn his job in camp, so nothing has been gifted as of yet.

So we can't discuss how we think it will play out? That's what we are all doing here right?

I understand that the draft is great, but if you can get young players like Rashaw Johnson, Sean McGrath and Marcus Cooper off the scrap heap and build them up to be quality starters, that speaks very well to your football IQ and player evaluation.

A little early to get final decisions since the draft hasn't happened yet.

As of right now, he's the starter, along with comings at FS, fisher at LT and likely Kelce at Te.

Obviously this is pre draft and there's more free agency al things can change, but again, what else should we discuss?

And other teams that draft well don't do it that way very often. They start new youn players, but they usually have more experience than the ones we are looking to start.

So far, 1 of the above is a quality starter, so let's not get too ahead of ourselves

Of, course.

But his statement reads as if is a foregone conclusion, which it is not.

1 quality starter off of the scrap heap is great.
1 every off-season would be awesome.
I would not count on that though, but just finding 1 in 1 off-season, with a cpl more who contribute is very promising results thus far.

also speaks very well in being able to put in a waiver claim before a good team does.

we will see if they have that same waiver magic this year at 23, which I highly doubt.

Very solid point.

Did someone say Rickshaw...Potato Salad! !

The Packers without Aaron Rodgers, aren't even a playoff team...

IF Dorsey does his job right...you'll have to forgive some us if we just don't believe that's possible until we see some actual proof.

The whole team was backups. It's called SURPRISE.

They did better with UDFAs than they did in the actual draft.

If you think that's gonna work long-term, I got news for ya.

Didn't they draft that guy? Hmmm

This has yet to be seen

They sure as hell didn't trade multiple 2nd round picks for him. :hmmm:

The same could be said about the UDFAs. They could all fail miserably this year, leaving the team with nothing. The "remains to be seen" argument is only convenient for you when it supports your opinion.

I don't blame the skepticism. I'm skeptical too. But skepticism shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing. Loading up on free agents today because you don't trust the guy to draft (despite us really not knowing yet if he is or is not good at it) is playing it extremely safe with a much lower reward than we pretend it to be.

I agree but right now guys like Marcus Cooper look promising.

I'm referring to the now, not the future.

Loading up on free agents today, when we came closer to winning a playoff game than anytime in the last TWO DECADES, is going for it, not playing it safe.

I don't care about longer rewards. This is the Chiefs, there are no longer rewards.

He absolutely does.

So was I. As of RIGHT NOW, Dorsey did better in UDFA than he did in the draft.

As of right now, it's not even close

I'd have to double-check to confirm, but this might be the largest Rishaw Johnson thread we've ever had on chiefsplanet.

No, the best thing we did in two decades was the massive rebuild through Herm and Kuharich. If they changed coaches, more effectively used that 2009 draft, and stuck with the 4-3, and got a good QB (this was actually a regime that took the position seriously, even if they whiffed a few times). Vermeils teams were overrated. For as much as he damaged this team by loading in the window, you'd expect a much better result than one playoff loss in four years.

The first thing Herm and Kuharich did was try to patch together the remnants of Vermeil's team and make a run at the playoffs.

They lost in the 1st round and delayed the rebuild by a year.

By the time the actual rebuild was in full-swing, Herm had run out of political capital and found himself out of a job.

Dorsey and Reid came in here and so far, they're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

I think you're reinventing history. The repatch was all Peterson. There w as talk that Herm and Peterson didn't get along. Best proof, Herm wanted to start croyle and Peterson decided to sign Huard to a big deal.

Herm went over Petersons head. I think it's pretty much implied that he asked to tear the team apart even if it meant a few painful seasons and that hunt was completely on the same page. You could tell hunt felt really guilty about firing Herm. Herm was fired because of pioli. In the same way pioli douched his way into bad mouthing Kuharich for years.

And Herm ended up being right. The only reason we have the core today is because Kuharich and Herm made a bold decision to fight back against Peterson and put their jobs on the line to set up a youth movement. They handed up a tremendous foundation for pioli and pioli whiffed.

Dorsey and Reid may be doing the same thing. Again, if pioli was not in charge, this team could have been a playoff team by 2009 (at least, playoff talent, coached by a terrible game day coach)

Herm himself said the biggest mistake HE made was delaying the rebuild for a year.

Pioli didn't sign Bowe. Pioli didn't trade picks for Alex Smith. Pioli didn't sign Schwartz and then let him walk. Pioli didn't sign Dunta Robinson.

He's a great scapegoat but some of this started after he was gone.

I just have to comment once in the largest rush as Johnson thread in the WORLD!

I'm not blaming pioli for Dorsey being less than effective last year. I am saying that Herm and Kuharich handed him a team with a terrific young core and a buttload of cap space and pioli whiffed by forcing a 3-4 we weren't built to run. The one thing Reid did get right was at least he hired coaches who could mostly fit the personnel.

At least he had the guts to do it. Many would not. And he had to fight Peterson tooth and nail to get it. And it ended being the right approach. Our core today has a shit load more to do with Herm and Kuharich than Peterson and pioli. And that includes losing guys like Brandon Carr and Bernard pollard.

I agree with that. But then again, you're talking about what a good job Reid has done, not Dorsey.

We're talking past each other.

Herm said his biggest mistake was what he did the FIRST YEAR. He wanted to start the rebuild right away but didn't press the issue.

Ultimately if the approach with Dorsey and Reid fails, it's all going to come back to this first year. The entirety of their stay here hinges on Alex Smith and Eric Fisher.

Dorsey is doing the same thing, but he's not in the terrible position Herm was in. He's still got good players that aren't old as hell. He also got fortunate to get Poe, Houston, Berry and Stephenson, who are cornerstones (or solid players in Stephenson's case).

No matter who the GM is, they would have no choice with Tamba and Flowers. Both those guys are gone next year IMO. Their cap is way too high.

We need more drafts like 2008. That one draft alone has made our team worth watching during Herm and pioli's time

As a Chiefs fan, those kinds of draft come around about once every 10 years.

I hope that changes with Dorsey

We all do.

I highly doubt you'll find one person arguing with you that is talking about "loading up" on free agents.

Most are talking no more than 3.

Speaking for myself only, I'm talking 2 mid tier free agents who won't eat up a ton of capspace.

You're overstating my side to make your rationalizations seem rational.

You guys cried last year about a tough schedule ROFL NFC EAST OMG 0 AND 4

They loaded up on free agents LAST YEAR. That's the ****ing problem that Zilla doesn't seem to want to acknowledge...

You don't represent everyone. Lots of people are talking about re-signing Schwartz, re-signing Albert, also adding Bird and a receiver like Sanders.

I've acknowledged it plenty of times. I don't care as much about loading up on free agents in ways that don't destroy your long-term cap. I don't see the issue in loading up one year to get the team back on track so this team can be competitive as they rebuild.

My approach depends on Dorsey being very good in the draft. I get that you would be skeptical on that. I am too. But I don't see why the approach I favor is so out of left field. This year, in order to do the things we want to do to sign our guys, we have to tinker around with restructuring existing contracts and we give up opportunities for free picks. Both things I don't want to do. Last year, we didn't have that issue.

Interesting analysis...

Gotta say Rishaw's flame out puts a lot of stock in the theory San Diego did more to lose that game by not taking the backups seriously more than the backups played well enough to beat San Diego.

Exactly.

I'd rather have rishaw Johnson than mcglynn or whatever his name is