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They are going for a SB next 2 years. |
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They need the picks and money |
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Trading a 1st and using money seems like a really bad idea |
I’m not going to fault Veach. When you are managing huge contracts on a Super Bowl team, you have to rely on some lottery tickets hitting. It’s a huge adjust to the mean type year. He swung with some guys with upside hoping a couple of them would separate from the pack, but only Rice did so.
And who knows, maybe a guy like Toney or MVS has a big playoff run and we catch lightening in a bottle. |
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Offense needs this offseason's resources for once. |
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I think there's little to no chance Veach will go after any of those 'Top Trade Candidates.' Can't afford either the compensation or the $$$ they'd command. Doubt we'll be able to get Evans. Also don't think he'll be a good fit. Of the ones left, maybe Pittman or Brown. Gun to my head, I'd guess Veach goes after Brown. |
Surprised noone has thrown out OBJ, who's looked pretty damn good the last few games. One year flier might be more plausible than some of the options?
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I would take a hard look, but I feel like he's ether aged out of possibility or he'll ask for too much. The more time passes, the more I feel like Veach really should've over-paid for DHop though. He really feels like he was the best possible option given the circumstances. Oh well. |
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For the above receivers, looking in hindsight it's clear that things did not go according to plan, but......... 1. Moore was going into year two and there was no reason to not expect him to improve. 2. Watson is what he is. Good for a couple catches a game. He was never going to be more than WR #4. 3. Toney has all the traits to be a #1 WR. His issue was always injuries. No one could have seen the issues he is having before the season started. 4. MVS was never going to be a true #1, but even based on his previous season he has regressed a ton. There was no way to see that coming. Now on the other hand Rice is far outperforming even the most generous of estimates, so that was an unexpected positive. But to think Veach saw all of this and did nothing about it is ridiculous and very heat of the moment. He banked on a similar level of production. He guessed wrong. No GM is perfect. If KC goes into next season with this roster of WRs then he is negligent. |
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And last year wasn't about them creating this great build. It was Mahomes and Kelce being absolute stars, Reid's schemed efficiency adjustments to 2021 kicking in, etc. There was no reason to believe they had THE formula as Kelce was aging out and JuJu was leaving. There was zero reason to trust Moore. Toney had flashes but he was known to always be injured and they barely played him last year. |
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When I say they heisted one, people automatically assume I mean something with a negative connotation and freak out… We had so many things go right last year it’s not even funny and that’s all I was trying to say…10-3 in one score games which is insane, being gifted the #1 seed on the freakiest of freak medical occurrences, Mahomes’ injury not being as bad as it looked and him being able to play through it, MVS turning into prime Jerry Rice in the AFC Championship, and getting a questionable call at the end of the Super Bowl. How many times will those things all happen and land in your favor? That’s what I meant…it wasn’t proof of anything, it was a GREAT season that felt quite charmed if we’re all being honest with ourselves….and a lot of people won’t and I get it. The proof of concept would’ve been if it had worked this season too and well….yeah. I *get* why Veach doubled down on it cause hell you just won the Super Bowl but you could see it wasn’t sustainable. |
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If they had signed DHop as that bandaid replacement then it probably does work. The problem is they let their #1 WR walk and had no viable plan to replace him. |
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It was magical….for 2022. It wasn’t going to work beyond that. |
The wr room wasn’t really much better last year than this year. McKinnon had an outlier year, and Kelce was a monster
It really was an outlier |
Keon Coleman would look great in this offense:
https://twitter.com/CFBRep/status/17...140027576.html |
I know he's getting up there in age, but Mike Evans would be a huge lift to the offense. I'm sure he'd be expensive but he'd be my top pick at WR in FA. I think Hollywood Brown would be a decent fallback option. Spend the 1st on OL and go back to the well for a round 2 WR.
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Just Mahomes and three WR1. |
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Worst part is wasting this defense and the tail end of Travis Kelce's career.
Just needed that one guy. |
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We have ONE DT under contract for 2024 and that's Neil Ferrell who never sees the field. We don't have two of our starting LBs under contract and Bolton is going into the last year of his rookie deal. Then you have Sneed, Edwards, and Danna being FAs. So, to act like the defense will not need resources is absurd at best. Maybe you prioritize some of the offense, like LT and WR, but Veach isn't putting all of our eggs into the offensive basket. I'd argue he's going to spend more resources overall on the defense in one way or another. You guys will probably get two changes at WR for all the whining and bitching and revisionist theory. IF you're really, really lucky you'll get 3 but I have my doubts. |
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The current top 5 cap hits are 3 offense, 2 defense. If we stretch that out to the top 10, its 6 offense and 3 defense (Butker also being in the top 10). Has the defense gotten all of the money recently? No. draft picks in rounds 1-3 by year: 2023: 2 O 1 D 2022: 1 O 4 D 2021: 1 O 1 D 2020: 2 O 1 D Has the defense gotten "all of the draft picks"? No. People seem to be re-writing history on Juju. He was a veteran with his best years behind him who was coming off a year lost to injury, and was signed for peanuts. It was a classic Veach gamble in the same way Toney was a gamble I think. Last year, the Chiefs gambled and won. This year, they gambled and lost. Veach has struck out and he has also hit homers, with 2 superbowls under his belt I would say his batting average has been fine. You can't have superstars everywhere on a roster without picking in the top 10 a few years in a row. All of this, and I'm in complete agreement the Chiefs need some more talent on offense in the offseason, I just don't think its drastic and I don't think it was obvious before the season started that this offensive group would stumble. |
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People say nobody could have seen it coming. And yet several pointed out we don’t have a true Wr1, that we should plan for kelce regression sooner vs later, that just because mahomes can carry talent doesn’t mean it’s a long term strategy to not surround him wr talent, that we have a bunch of role guys and no target eater (with Toney, the injury prone guy, being the only one who seemed to break that mold). We’ve got plenty of receipts on that. We also decided with this experimental wr group we’d coach them up with an assistant with virtually no experience. Veach absolutely should have seen it coming, at least enough to know we needed a bandaid. That is a serious misstep with self scouting. |
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People say we threw a lot of picks at the WR position. The problem is that compared to the rest of the league we benchmark way to the bottom. Sure we paid Mvs $10m but the majority of teams have WAY more than that invested in the position. Sure we took a few second rounders, yet 2/3 of teams have taken a first round wr in the past 5 years. So arguably taking a wr in our spot considering the run on WRs early is like us taking 4th round prospects. It’s not that we haven’t tried, but we tried to moneyball it. Can’t blame them because it worked last year but we deprioritized offense longer than we should have. This offseason our draft needs to be dominated by offense. |
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Not sure if it was that very clear in how I laid it out in the post you quoted, but in the last 4 drafts, looking at top 3 round selections the Chiefs have made 7 Offense picks and 8 Defense picks. That's pretty balanced. Even stretching it out to all picks, I make it 62% of total picks for the Defense and 38% for the Offense the last 4 years. That's not really that far from 50/50? The actual difference is just the number of busts from the offense picks is greater than the defensive picks. If you're only looking at first round picks, sure the last 3 have all been D. But I don't think this is that great a measure, because when you're picking at the back of the round, your choices are mortgage the future or sit and see what comes to you. I am pretty sure there was some reporting that the Chiefs tried to trade up this last draft, but could not find a partner. I am not sure I understand your trading up point? If we factor in trades like OBJ, the Chiefs spent even more capital on offense than I originally stated. Quote:
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Higgins is a FA, not a trade candidate. I’ll continue to beat the drum for him and do whatever it takes to get him. Even if there’s a couple cap casualties.
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He tried trading up, presumedly for a WR. That's been reported. Teams ultimately turned him down. How is that his fault?? FAU was the best possible pick they could make for the future in scenario knowing Chris Jones was probably gone. There was only 1 WR picked from pick 23 until pick 50. That's how thin WR was. And they got Rice who has performed as well as any WR pick relative to their draft position. Dude was an absolute steal for pick 55. Last year was a really bad year to need a WR unfortunately. People keep claiming Hopkins but he was really the only guy I think would change things here. Oh well. They got it wrong this year but Rice looks great for the future. Build the offense this Spring and go for it again next year. |
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Actually, I'm probably just agreeing with you here. I think they'll get either 2 WRs or 1 and a LT before the draft. Either way I can't see anyway offense doesn't have a big uptick in cap space and draft allocation compared to the defense. We're almost certainly going to have some gaps and depth issues on D next year. |
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This team has spent all the #1 picks on defense and used all the $$$ on defense recently. They traded their #1 WR to get defense and they let their new #1 WR walk to spend that money on defensive backups. Tired of letting this offense turn into absolute shit with Mahomes. The fact that Veach couldn't find ONE vet WR that Mahomes could trust shows that's where we need to spend most of our resources now. ZERO #1, #2, or #3 WR's drafted in Veach's first 5 years. ZERO starting tackles. |
I guess we can put to bed the “Mahomes will elevate guys around him” narrative
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He could not elevate guys that don't belong on a NFL field, no. |
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Lol, what do you think he's been doing? When he's calling out the defensive alignments, literally yelling things like "COVER ZERO," at these guys, when he's constantly pointing out man vs. zone, giving them instruction after plays about what he wants from them, that's called 'trying to elevate these guys.' yes? No? Maybe??? At some point it's on each WR to elevate his own game. Pat can't run their routes, make their sight adjustments, and catch the ball for them. They have to do those things on their own, because it's their job. JFC, what else do you want him to do? Take them by the hand and run their routes for them? Call time out and explain exactly what's required of them on each play? **** sakes, they need to do their freaking jobs. What are they, 12? |
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If anyone thinks Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would win a SB with these WR's they are on crack. |
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So, no matter how you slice the cake you're baking here, he pretty much has to get more guys for the defense than the offense. Argue for your WR and LT as priorities, nobody is claiming you shouldn't. Don't argue Veach has to ignore the defense. |
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So we need to just do it the cheap way and only pay a few fat guys 1 million a year for that role and then use Omenihu, Felix as guys that can flex around the lineup and play inside or out on pass-rush downs. The NFL is a passing league now. It's great when you can find a true DT but we don't need to do so next year. |
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I don't remember exactly which year it was, but Brady had a year when all of his WRs were shitting the bed, similar to what Pat's been dealing with this season. At one point, He said or Giselle said something to the effect that Brady couldn't throw and catch the ball. Then some wife or GF of one of the WRs in question got herself in front of the cameras and had a fit about how it was Tom's fault her man wasn't catching footballs. i feel like Pat's in the same situation this season. These guys are the same level of crappy and no QB, regardless of how talented/experienced, is going to get them to play better, because this is their ceiling. |
I don't remember exactly which year it was, but Brady had a year when all of his WRs were shitting the bed, similar to what Pat's been dealing with this season. At one point, He said or Giselle said something to the effect that Brady couldn't throw and catch the ball. Then some wife or GF of one of the WRs in question got herself in front of the cameras and had a fit about how it was Tom's fault her man wasn't catching footballs. Mega
It's why Tom left. He knew that the Patriots wouldn't get him enough firepower to grab one more ring. |
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Yeah, I feel like it had to be either 2018 or 2019. Bottom line, there just wasn't enough talent in that WR room for even Tom to elevate and work with. |
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Bring back Marcus Kemp!
*I’m watching the AFC Championship game against the bengals from January. I am also drinking. |
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I have no idea why Veach hasn't kicked the tires on Matt Ioannidis this season. Seeing what he has left would be good and he might be a guy you could re-sign next year for a couple of years to rotate in at that spot. He's a really solid DT who can play starter's reps. Just an odd situation there with him. |
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Anyone notice Demarcus Robinson lately?
He has turned into a reliable pass catcher for the Rams. |
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Yah, he’s only played in 7/8 games and he’s going to statistically outperform all our WRs except Rice, who played all season. And has been receiving the most targets for weeks now. DRob has been their 3rd WR, fourth target the entire time. Very happy for him. |
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Higgins is their most valuable asset. They will franchise tag him and try to trade him if necessary. |
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I like Tee Higgins on paper but he’s never been “the man” and does anybody trust those soft tissue injuries once he actually gets paid.
Buyer beware for mine. Seen it too many times We need a reliable, bankable player in that position even if that said player has already reached his ceiling. That’s why I like Evans on a squad that will still have Toney, Moore, Rice and probably Watson and Ross. |
That is a good article for biggest disappointments.
But with our cap unless we tag and trade someone we are drafting and free agents. |
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So it doesn’t solve our issue of our WRs struggling with consistency playing with structure. But he is a decent weapon when a superior improviser like mahomes starts running scramble drill |
Keenan Allen has a $34,000,000 cap hit next year and the Chargers cap is a disaster. I fully expect him to be cut this offseason. Precisly why they drafted Quentin Johnston. A veteran, elite route runner paired with a dynamic rookie in the draft who can take the top off the defense would be perfect.
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Even more reason to believe they will franchise Tee Higgins. |
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No way they are cutting Keenan. They wouldn't have a single reliable target if he was released.
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Any possible way we can get that Husky receiver? man he looked good tonight
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I think people should keep in mind that when we get rid of MVS we need to replace his role getting a real burner here. I know people will say Hardman can be that guy but the Chiefs purposefully let him walk last Spring when he was cheap as hell, so not sure he'd be back.
Here are some burners that could fill that role from FA: Hollywood Brown Devin Duvernay Curtis Samuel-maybe. He is a 4.31 guy though DJ Chark Darnell Mooney To me Hollywood Brown seems like an ideal fit. Would love to get him and then a Tyler Boyd or Curtis Samuels in wave 2 of FA. |
Draft a guy for that role.
I would definitely sniff around the Commanders on Mclaurin. If that could be had for a 3rd, maybe a 2nd...I'd be interested. |
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Rookie receivers in Andy's offense take time to get the system and it's always been that way. Yeah I don't want to rely on a rookie WR in any way next year. I want that problem fixed for week 1 and I'm sure Patrick does too.
Also the Commanders won't trade anyone when they have the most cap space in the league and are about to draft one of the 3 top QB's with the 3rd pick. I'd say Jayden Daniels is a Commander next year |
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Outside of a guy like Calvin Ridley whos probably aged and priced out, Hollywood probably does the most to fix our problems in one pen stroke. He can threaten the whole field and even though hes not a big receiver can do pretty much all of it.
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Hollywood probably ends up being a 14 million dolar per year player. I dunno if that's something I'd wanna do.
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If I'm goin for a vet, I want a dude. |
Nobody fears this offense anymore and the biggest reason is weapons. Rice is a guy teams respect after what he's done, but they need a legit weapon to scare teams.
I think Higgins, Ridley and Brown would be that guy but Higgins isn't a scheme fit, he's always dealing with an injury issue and has a 9% drop rate. Idk it feels like Hollywood Brown best fills that role Tyreek had. Could really threaten teams with his speed and playmaking ability. If we aren't paying Chris, why not invest there? |
They're going to end up overpaying for Ridley and that will be fine with me.
He'd be great in this offense. Ridley, Rice and Kelce and a cheap vet who can catch will be more than enough. |
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