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-   -   Chiefs Keep ****ing doubting Rishaw Johnson. (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=282425)

booger 03-22-2014 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 10508893)
Emphasis on the word "proven" in "proven depth."

Another rookie isn't going to be the answer. You'll just be replacing Rishaw Johnson's struggles with someone else's.

That's why I was all about re-signing Schwartz and keeping the draft completely out of the guard picture this year.

I'm with you there. I wanted to see Geoff resigned. I think in their view Linkenbach is a very similar player to Schwartz when he was signed last year. The versitility and a part time starter. Dorsey loves Kush and Reid drafted Jason Kelce as a 6th rounder and started him at C in his 2nd year so them moving Hudson to G is something I think they will strongly consider as well. In one of Dorsey's Q/A's, not a recent one but maybe his end of the season presser he mentioned not being surprised if Kush pushes for a starting job. In that case I like Hudson better at LG than RG and that would allow Allen to compete at RG too. I'd like to see them add J'Marcus Webb who they recently visited with. Chris Ballard knows him well from his time with the Bears when he was drafted and Martz loved him. He's only 25-26 with quite a bit of starts under his belt and could compete with Linkebach for a backup job. It's probably better and safer to get a guy like Daryn College on board as a vet with years full of starts under his belt.

All of the talk last year about the youngest line in the league and it's gotten younger this year so far. It's a concern for sure

Messier 03-22-2014 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10508908)
You are talking positions without regard to talent. The total team talent level matters even if it's depth. Every starter lost is talent lost even if you replace that talent from an existing player. You still lose depth.

ARRIVALS
Linkenbach, Jeffrey**
Owens, Chris
Walker, Vance*
Mays, Joe*

DEPARTURES

Albert, Branden*
Asamoah, Jon*
Demps, Quintin**
Jackson, Tyson*
Jordan, Akeem**
Lewis, Kendrick*
McCluster, Dexter*
Powe, Jerrell
Schwartz, Geoff*

* had significant time starting
** significant backups

Who are you most upset about losing?

The Chiefs will have the same number of players at those positions. They aren't gonna have fewer players. I think it'll be easy to upgrade even the reserve positions.

Messier 03-22-2014 05:13 PM

Jordan was a starter.

chiefzilla1501 03-22-2014 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10508908)
You are talking positions without regard to talent. The total team talent level matters even if it's depth. Every starter lost is talent lost even if you replace that talent from an existing player. You still lose depth.

ARRIVALS
Linkenbach, Jeffrey**
Owens, Chris
Walker, Vance*
Mays, Joe*

ARRIVALS WE DIDN'T SEE LAST YEAR
Commings, Sanders
Kelce, Travis

DEPARTURES

Albert, Branden* (starter in-house. Depth at this position neutralized by Linkenbach)
Asamoah, Jon*Asamaoh, Jon**
Demps, Quintin** neutralized by Chris Owen
Jackson, Tyson* neutralized by Walker
Jordan, Akeem** neutralized by Mays
Lewis, Kendrick* probably neutralized by Commings, a guy not on the roster last year
McCluster, Dexter* likely neutralized by Kelce, a guy not on the roster last year because Kelce will add a receiving option
Powe, Jerrell (barely played)
Schwartz, Geoff*

* had significant time starting
** significant backups

FYP above

And we still have a lot of free agency and the draft. After this time last year, Dorsey hauled in Cooper, McGrath, Parker, Jenkins, Sherman, Fisher, Zombo, Catapano, Rokevius Watkins, Rishaw Johnson, Nico Johnson, Kush, Akeem Jordan. That's thirteen 2014 roster players, five 2013 starters, and 2 or 3 of those guys may end up being 2014 starters.

So no, I am not worried about depth. And I'm also not worried that the remainder of the offseason, we won't neutralize our talent losses. We have to replace a backup Guard, a starting Guard, and a loss in talent at Left Tackle. And some minor losses in talent at some positions likely neutralized by improvements in organic talent already on the roster.

Mr. Laz 03-22-2014 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 10508921)
Who are you most upset about losing?

The Chiefs will have the same number of players at those positions. They aren't gonna have fewer players. I think it'll be easy to upgrade even the reserve positions.

I'm upset about losing talent and not replacing it.

doesn't matter how well we draft because it should be FA + Draft

You have 3 phases to improve your team in the offseason

FA
Trade
Draft

Once you don't improve in one of these areas you can't make it up ... once it's gone, it's gone. Unless you crossover (ie trade players for draft picks etc).

imo we haven't done enough in FA, it makes me think we aren't serious about winning. That's why i'm pissed.

I understand mistakes and failures but i can't stand not trying.

chiefzilla1501 03-22-2014 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10509391)
I'm upset about losing talent and not replacing it.

doesn't matter how well we draft because it should be FA + Draft

You have 3 phases to improve your team in the offseason

FA
Trade
Draft

Once you don't improve in one of these areas you can't make it up ... once it's gone, it's gone. Unless you crossover (ie trade players for draft picks etc).

imo we haven't done enough in FA, it makes me think we aren't serious about winning. That's why i'm pissed.

I understand mistakes and failures but i can't stand not trying.

We probably upgraded both DE and ILB at a lower combined cost than keeping Jordan and Tyson Jackson. Outside of that, we saved about $20M on three offensive linemen, a position we've all screamed up and down is not a high positional value spot.

If this team ends up being equal or better than last year while saving $20M, resigning Alex Smith/Houston/Berry to huge long-term non cap-killing deals, while not hastily restructuring Hali and Flowers to shitty cap-killing contracts, AND as a result of all that earn our way to 3 to 4 good to great compensatory picks (giving us 10-11 picks in 2015), I'd say that's an offseason that actually feels like a strategy whereas last year was just throwing money at players to help us fill seats.

SPATCH 03-22-2014 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10509442)
We probably upgraded both DE and ILB at a lower combined cost than keeping Jordan and Tyson Jackson. Outside of that, we saved about $20M on three offensive linemen, a position we've all screamed up and down is not a high positional value spot.

If this team ends up being equal or better than last year while saving $20M, resigning Alex Smith/Houston/Berry to huge long-term non cap-killing deals, while not hastily restructuring Hali and Flowers to shitty cap-killing contracts, AND as a result of all that earn our way to 3 to 4 good to great compensatory picks (giving us 10-11 picks in 2015), I'd say that's an offseason that actually feels like a strategy whereas last year was just throwing money at players to help us fill seats.

Potential comp picks for Hali/Flowers departure would not occur for 2015 draft. We should see nice 2015 comp picks resulting from the current free agency, though.

milkman 03-22-2014 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10509442)
We probably upgraded both DE and ILB at a lower combined cost than keeping Jordan and Tyson Jackson. Outside of that, we saved about $20M on three offensive linemen, a position we've all screamed up and down is not a high positional value spot.

If this team ends up being equal or better than last year while saving $20M, resigning Alex Smith/Houston/Berry to huge long-term non cap-killing deals, while not hastily restructuring Hali and Flowers to shitty cap-killing contracts, AND as a result of all that earn our way to 3 to 4 good to great compensatory picks (giving us 10-11 picks in 2015), I'd say that's an offseason that actually feels like a strategy whereas last year was just throwing money at players to help us fill seats.

Spin it however you want, last year's offseason combined with this year's only strengthens the notion that Clark Hunt only cares about putting butts into the seats.

chiefzilla1501 03-22-2014 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10509478)
Spin it however you want, last year's offseason combined with this year's only strengthens the notion that Clark Hunt only cares about putting butts into the seats.

Spin it however you want...
You are suggesting the Chiefs should have either torn the team apart and committed to a painful rebuild the year after a massive fan revolt. Or option B, because we invested in Alex Smith, we should be throwing money as if Smith is a guy who can carry a team to the Super Bowl on his back. I'm not a fan of either of those choices (and no, I'm not a blind Dorsey apologist. I've consistently been critical of his big offseason moves last year).

Also, it's hard to claim Hunt doesn't want to win big after he went over Peterson's head to give Herm license to commit to a rebuild, and then hired Pioli and told him he had time and patience to let him build the team his way.

chiefzilla1501 03-22-2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_spatula (Post 10509458)
Potential comp picks for Hali/Flowers departure would not occur for 2015 draft. We should see nice 2015 comp picks resulting from the current free agency, though.

We will likely get comp picks for Albert, Schwartz, and maybe both McCluster and Asamoah. We will likely get comped for losing a ton of free agents (mostly big contract free agents). At this rate, we might get 4 comp picks and some as high as the 3rd round.

Signing Jairus Byrd hurts our ability to win comp picks. Extending Smith, Houston, and Berry does not.

ShortRoundChief 03-22-2014 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10509478)
Spin it however you want, last year's offseason combined with this year's only strengthens the notion that Clark Hunt only cares about putting butts into the seats.

I don't get it. He gutted FO, coaching staff following a fan rebellion, granted. However, he hasn't signed any big named players that would be conducive with that philosophy.

chiefzilla1501 03-22-2014 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Bull (Post 10509580)
I don't get it. He gutted FO, coaching staff following a fan rebellion, granted. However, he hasn't signed any big named players that would be conducive with that philosophy.

Last year was probably the only year in Hunt's entire run that we saw the team use free agency to build a winner.

And no I don't think he's cheap. He seems to put a lot of faith in his GMs/coaches to build things their way and I don't for a second think Pioli and Dorsey were hired because they have a history of being cheap. In Pioli, he gambled really poorly. In Herm he gambled correctly. Yet to see on Dorsey. His ability to draft this year in next year will tell us a lot about how good he really is.

Mother****erJones 03-23-2014 12:14 AM

I don't think Hunt is cheap. He's spending a shit load of cash to put this new FO in place, get rid of the old bad shit FO and coaches.

chiefzilla1501 03-23-2014 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mother****erJones (Post 10509600)
I don't think Hunt is cheap. He's spending a shit load of cash to put this new FO in place, get rid of the old bad shit FO and coaches.

The Chiefs could position themselves well to make a really massive upgrade to this team in 2015. They'll have a lot of money to play with and there is a TON of talent that could pop into the 2015 free agent class including JJ Watt and maybe someone like Earl Thomas. And because of our conservative approach to the absolutely shitty 2014 free agent class, we could wind up with 11 draft picks. Because we were patient with Hali and Flowers, we can restructure their contracts next year when we have leverage.

ShortRoundChief 03-23-2014 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10509586)
Last year was probably the only year in Hunt's entire run that we saw the team use free agency to build a winner.

And no I don't think he's cheap. He seems to put a lot of faith in his GMs/coaches to build things their way and I don't for a second think Pioli and Dorsey were hired because they have a history of being cheap. In Pioli, he gambled really poorly. In Herm he gambled correctly. Yet to see on Dorsey. His ability to draft this year in next year will tell us a lot about how good he really is.

Yes last year was one of the few years we've seen him maximize FA to give us a shot, but think about how it was done. Nothing spectacular. Avery and Smith were the only recognizable names (granted you could include Fasano in that as well) but nobody who would automatically be granted a team changer.

We signed a ton of short term contracts to players who are good but not great.

If the goal is to put "butts in seats" than he's doing it all wrong. Signing big named FA is the way to go about it. Seriously who's going to sell more tickets? Brett Favre or Sean Smith?


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