Casey Martin fiasco

Mi_chief_fan · 01-17-2001, 04:14 PM

Now, i'll admit it: I [b]HATE[/b] golf. Can't play. Can't stand to watch. The very thought of calling these spoiled, rich brats 'athletes' makes me either want to laugh uncontrollably, or vomit(it's a fine line, you know).

However, the whole Casey Martin fiasco really bugs me. Those who say that he should be able to use this cart, as a result of the disabilities act, are really disillusioned. Somehow, I doubt the NBA, NHL or NFL would allow such a thing either.If so, Joe Montana might have led the Chiefs to a couple of Super Bowl wins.

I guess what it comes down to is this: is golf a 'sport'? For them to be taken seriously, they really need the Supreme Court to turn down Martins request.

If Martin wins, i'll be entering my golf cart in this year's Boston Marathon. :D:

**Baby Lee** · 01-17-2001, 04:21 PM

I am also concerned with the press coverage which is consistently at pains to point out that 'this ruling could end his career.' Dude was ranks like 150th and still made over $140K last year.
When I was a kid, a tried baseball and the consensus was I sucked. That effectively ended my pro baseball career. At college, the 'freshman 15' [plus] effectively ended my [as yet unrealized] modeling career.

01-17-2001, 04:23 PM

maybe we should get Marcus allen a "Rascal portable cart" and resign him...put a grill guard on the front...after all, he is retired, and it would be hard on his old knees to run down that long field...

maybe he should switch to miniature golf?

**morphius** · 01-17-2001, 04:30 PM

I wonder if I could claim that my arm gets tired when I golf, if I golfed, and that I need to shoot the ball from the modified golf cart that no resmbles a tank with a big cannon to shoot it from to compete fairly.

I believe that the major sports, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB all have exceptions for them written into law so they don't have to worry about such stupid labor law suits.

**Bob Dole** · 01-17-2001, 04:32 PM

Bob Dole had the same discussion with someone early this morning after seeing ESPN's coverage of the issue.

Bob Dole suggested that the results of heavy smoking, beer drinking and lack of excercise should be considered disabilities, and the NFL should make reasonable accomodations for such. Bob Dole will be happy to play for the league minimum next season.

You think it's bad--try going to a national ADA conference and listening to the EEO officials talk about court decisions and their intent to select cases to push through in an attempt to reverse the courts' decisions. Bob Dole is all for equal access, but things have been pushed a little too far, IBDHO.

58Forever · 01-17-2001, 04:37 PM

Walk or don't play.

One thing to remember though...the cost of playing on tour is high...eventhough he made over 140k, his expenses were probably almost that much...unless he had corporate sponsors...he didn't make nearly that much...probably broke even if he was lucky...

With that said, and wether you consider golf a sport or not...it is still a game...what I wouldn't give to earn a living playing a game I loved...

because of the ADA...the Supreme Court will probably rule in his favor...that would be wrong...regardless, I'm a little tired of hearing about it anyway...

Mi_chief_fan · 01-17-2001, 04:38 PM

[quote]I believe that the major sports, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB all have exceptions for them written into law so they don't have to worry about such stupid labor law suits.[/quote]

[b]EXACTLY[/b] my point. Is golf a 'Sport'?

58Forever · 01-17-2001, 04:43 PM

1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in

according to Webster...definition of Sport...make your own determination...I'm a golfer, am I an athlete because I play golf?...no, I'm an athlete because I played football, baseball, basketball, etc...after watching some of my fellow golfers, I can't argue with the fact that golfers are not athletes...but athletes are golfers...

redfan · 01-17-2001, 04:53 PM

Golfers are athletes. So are bowlers, fencers, javelin throwers, snowboarders, cc skiers, racewalkers, and any other fringe sport I've neglected to mention. It requires a great deal of skill to play at the level of a PGA golfer. Just because the sport of golf isn't that athletic, doesn't mean golfers aren't athletes.

Casey Martin should lose his appeal. You have to have the physical ability to play by the rules, or you should be dq'ed. Tough cookies.

Pitt Gorilla · 01-17-2001, 04:56 PM

I hope Martin wins and gets to play. It's not because I like golf; Quite the contrary. I abhore the fact that it's on tv. I would love to see those pansies whining about some guy getting to use a cart and ruining their sport. What sport? You hit a damn ball. That's it. No defense involved. Fans have to remain "quiet." Wouldn't you just love it if basketball was that way? Marv, in a hushed voice "Camby's free throw, yes, it counts." Come on! Golfers claim the elements are the defense. I guess bowlers claim the lanes are the defense. How about the lighting? Until they institute goalies to block the hole or allow verbal taunting by the crowd, I'm saying "you go, Casey!"

KCWolfman · 01-17-2001, 05:07 PM

Even Women arent allowed special dispensation in the WNBA... Martin doesnt deserve the game changed for him

DanT · 01-17-2001, 06:40 PM

Golf is a sport and reasonable accomodations should be made to allow Casey Martin to play. The only thing that walking the course has to do with PGA tournament golf is that it tires out the golfers. There's nothing at all about walking the course that has squat to do with the skills that define a golfer and, in fact, there are gobs and gobs of golf tournaments every year where carts are allowed--in fact, in many tournaments, they are required.

Because of Casey Martin's disability, he gets plenty tired just walking from his cart to the ball, executing his shot and walking back to the cart: far more tired than any of the tour pros who currently walk the course, from what I understand.

I think it's silly to deny Martin a chance to outcompete the best golfers in the world merely because he can't walk the course. I consider the rule that all golfers (regardless of disability) must walk the course about as unrelated to the essence of that sport as the former rule on the Reds that their baseball cleats must all be black.

DanT · 01-17-2001, 06:58 PM

I don't understand why the PGA Tour can't make an exception for Martin. There's not any reason to think that "a slippery slope" will occur if they make an allowance for Martin to compete. The only thing that would happen if the PGA demonstrated a little more humanity in interpreting its own rules than would a TRS-80 personal computer is that the top levels of competition would be enhanced by one or two exceptional golfers every generation. It's goofy that the PGA wants to get into a pissing contest over such a completely unessential and clearly exceptional matter as this one.

ChiefsFanatic · 01-17-2001, 07:01 PM

I am sorry. I don't agree with any of you people who say he shouldn't be allowed to ride. He does not have an "injury", he has not caused this himself (like smoking, drinking, and lack of exercise). The man's leg is diseased. Last year Beaman compared his plight to that of a golfer with an ingrown toenail. Ridiculous.

If you are one of the people who argue that riding would give him a competitive advantage, you are wrong, because that would assume that without the cart his abilities are even and level with other pros. He is at a disadvantage without a cart. That is why he is handicapped. If he could walk 18 holes with as much ease as others then he would not need a cart. He has trouble walking from cart to ball over 18 holes, much less tee to green 18 times.

I agree that professional sports groups should be able to make and enforce their own rules, but only when it does not supercede federal law.

Imagine if the PGA had a rule against minorities and gays playing. Would you all still hold to the idea that they should be able to rule themselves without interuption from the courts? I doubt it.

DanT · 01-17-2001, 07:06 PM

Personally, when I've gotten my sorry butt beat my 20 and 30 strokes over 18 holes in which I walked the course and others in my group took a cart, I've never once had that fact enter into my prodigious excuse-making productions.

Most chess players know for a fact that they have rarely if ever been beaten by a superior opponent ;) What this fact really means is that humans are great at making excuses. Still, I bet only a few golfers have ever tried to pretend that a reason why they lost a round was because they didn't get to use a cart while their opponent did: that's so graceless and ridiculous on its face that even in the denial-flooded confines of the 19th hole, only the most desparate losers would try to float that excuse.

[Edited by DanT on 01-17-2001 at 07:19 PM]

01-17-2001, 04:21 PM	#2
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	I am also concerned with the press coverage which is consistently at pains to point out that 'this ruling could end his career.' Dude was ranks like 150th and still made over $140K last year. When I was a kid, a tried baseball and the consensus was I sucked. That effectively ended my pro baseball career. At college, the 'freshman 15' [plus] effectively ended my [as yet unrealized] modeling career.
Posts: 95,642

01-17-2001, 04:23 PM	#3
Iowanian Guest Casino cash: $	maybe we should get Marcus allen a "Rascal portable cart" and resign him...put a grill guard on the front...after all, he is retired, and it would be hard on his old knees to run down that long field... maybe he should switch to miniature golf?
Posts: n/a

01-17-2001, 04:30 PM	#4
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5835027	I wonder if I could claim that my arm gets tired when I golf, if I golfed, and that I need to shoot the ball from the modified golf cart that no resmbles a tank with a big cannon to shoot it from to compete fairly. I believe that the major sports, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB all have exceptions for them written into law so they don't have to worry about such stupid labor law suits.
Posts: 26,022

01-17-2001, 04:32 PM	#5
Bob Dole King Shit of **** Mountain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texarkana, Texas Casino cash: $-1134563	Bob Dole had the same discussion with someone early this morning after seeing ESPN's coverage of the issue. Bob Dole suggested that the results of heavy smoking, beer drinking and lack of excercise should be considered disabilities, and the NFL should make reasonable accomodations for such. Bob Dole will be happy to play for the league minimum next season. You think it's bad--try going to a national ADA conference and listening to the EEO officials talk about court decisions and their intent to select cases to push through in an attempt to reverse the courts' decisions. Bob Dole is all for equal access, but things have been pushed a little too far, IBDHO.
Posts: 51,540

01-17-2001, 04:37 PM	#6
58Forever It's dejavu all over again! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: at home in my own chair Casino cash: $10004900	Walk or don't play. One thing to remember though...the cost of playing on tour is high...eventhough he made over 140k, his expenses were probably almost that much...unless he had corporate sponsors...he didn't make nearly that much...probably broke even if he was lucky... With that said, and wether you consider golf a sport or not...it is still a game...what I wouldn't give to earn a living playing a game I loved... because of the ADA...the Supreme Court will probably rule in his favor...that would be wrong...regardless, I'm a little tired of hearing about it anyway... __________________ joe If the other team scores zero, three points is enough! "screw you guys, I'm going home."
Posts: 1,828

01-17-2001, 04:14 PM
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	Now, i'll admit it: I [b]HATE[/b] golf. Can't play. Can't stand to watch. The very thought of calling these spoiled, rich brats 'athletes' makes me either want to laugh uncontrollably, or vomit(it's a fine line, you know). However, the whole Casey Martin fiasco really bugs me. Those who say that he should be able to use this cart, as a result of the disabilities act, are really disillusioned. Somehow, I doubt the NBA, NHL or NFL would allow such a thing either.If so, Joe Montana might have led the Chiefs to a couple of Super Bowl wins. I guess what it comes down to is this: is golf a 'sport'? For them to be taken seriously, they really need the Supreme Court to turn down Martins request. If Martin wins, i'll be entering my golf cart in this year's Boston Marathon. :D:
Posts: 3,518

01-17-2001, 04:38 PM	#7
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	[quote]I believe that the major sports, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB all have exceptions for them written into law so they don't have to worry about such stupid labor law suits.[/quote] [b]EXACTLY[/b] my point. Is golf a 'Sport'? __________________ Bandwagon Predators Fan!
Posts: 3,518

01-17-2001, 04:43 PM	#8
58Forever It's dejavu all over again! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: at home in my own chair Casino cash: $10004900	1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in according to Webster...definition of Sport...make your own determination...I'm a golfer, am I an athlete because I play golf?...no, I'm an athlete because I played football, baseball, basketball, etc...after watching some of my fellow golfers, I can't argue with the fact that golfers are not athletes...but athletes are golfers... __________________ joe If the other team scores zero, three points is enough! "screw you guys, I'm going home."
Posts: 1,828

01-17-2001, 04:53 PM	#9
redfan I miss Eric and Willie Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: OHohOhhhhh-lathe Casino cash: $-1698148	Golfers are athletes. So are bowlers, fencers, javelin throwers, snowboarders, cc skiers, racewalkers, and any other fringe sport I've neglected to mention. It requires a great deal of skill to play at the level of a PGA golfer. Just because the sport of golf isn't that athletic, doesn't mean golfers aren't athletes. Casey Martin should lose his appeal. You have to have the physical ability to play by the rules, or you should be dq'ed. Tough cookies. __________________ IV LIV LVII LVIII Len Dawson: SB IV MVP Patrick Mahomes: 2X NFLMVP 3X SBMVP and 3rd member of the B2B SBMVP Club
Posts: 8,207

01-17-2001, 04:56 PM	#10
Pitt Gorilla Banned! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201 Casino cash: $40194	I hope Martin wins and gets to play. It's not because I like golf; Quite the contrary. I abhore the fact that it's on tv. I would love to see those pansies whining about some guy getting to use a cart and ruining their sport. What sport? You hit a damn ball. That's it. No defense involved. Fans have to remain "quiet." Wouldn't you just love it if basketball was that way? Marv, in a hushed voice "Camby's free throw, yes, it counts." Come on! Golfers claim the elements are the defense. I guess bowlers claim the lanes are the defense. How about the lighting? Until they institute goalies to block the hole or allow verbal taunting by the crowd, I'm saying "you go, Casey!" __________________ Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting.
Posts: 47,331

01-17-2001, 05:07 PM	#11
KCWolfman Fall down 7 times, get up 8 Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Even Women arent allowed special dispensation in the WNBA... Martin doesnt deserve the game changed for him
Posts: 15,474

01-17-2001, 06:40 PM	#12
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1741711	Golf is a sport and reasonable accomodations should be made to allow Casey Martin to play. The only thing that walking the course has to do with PGA tournament golf is that it tires out the golfers. There's nothing at all about walking the course that has squat to do with the skills that define a golfer and, in fact, there are gobs and gobs of golf tournaments every year where carts are allowed--in fact, in many tournaments, they are required. Because of Casey Martin's disability, he gets plenty tired just walking from his cart to the ball, executing his shot and walking back to the cart: far more tired than any of the tour pros who currently walk the course, from what I understand. I think it's silly to deny Martin a chance to outcompete the best golfers in the world merely because he can't walk the course. I consider the rule that all golfers (regardless of disability) must walk the course about as unrelated to the essence of that sport as the former rule on the Reds that their baseball cleats must all be black.
Posts: 4,340

01-17-2001, 06:58 PM	#13
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1741711	I don't understand why the PGA Tour can't make an exception for Martin. There's not any reason to think that "a slippery slope" will occur if they make an allowance for Martin to compete. The only thing that would happen if the PGA demonstrated a little more humanity in interpreting its own rules than would a TRS-80 personal computer is that the top levels of competition would be enhanced by one or two exceptional golfers every generation. It's goofy that the PGA wants to get into a pissing contest over such a completely unessential and clearly exceptional matter as this one.
Posts: 4,340

01-17-2001, 07:01 PM	#14
ChiefsFanatic DeadPunisher Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Blue Springs, MO. 64014 Casino cash: $359205	I am sorry. I don't agree with any of you people who say he shouldn't be allowed to ride. He does not have an "injury", he has not caused this himself (like smoking, drinking, and lack of exercise). The man's leg is diseased. Last year Beaman compared his plight to that of a golfer with an ingrown toenail. Ridiculous. If you are one of the people who argue that riding would give him a competitive advantage, you are wrong, because that would assume that without the cart his abilities are even and level with other pros. He is at a disadvantage without a cart. That is why he is handicapped. If he could walk 18 holes with as much ease as others then he would not need a cart. He has trouble walking from cart to ball over 18 holes, much less tee to green 18 times. I agree that professional sports groups should be able to make and enforce their own rules, but only when it does not supercede federal law. Imagine if the PGA had a rule against minorities and gays playing. Would you all still hold to the idea that they should be able to rule themselves without interuption from the courts? I doubt it.
Posts: 7,802

01-17-2001, 07:06 PM	#15
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $1741711	Personally, when I've gotten my sorry butt beat my 20 and 30 strokes over 18 holes in which I walked the course and others in my group took a cart, I've never once had that fact enter into my prodigious excuse-making productions. Most chess players know for a fact that they have rarely if ever been beaten by a superior opponent ;) What this fact really means is that humans are great at making excuses. Still, I bet only a few golfers have ever tried to pretend that a reason why they lost a round was because they didn't get to use a cart while their opponent did: that's so graceless and ridiculous on its face that even in the denial-flooded confines of the 19th hole, only the most desparate losers would try to float that excuse. [Edited by DanT on 01-17-2001 at 07:19 PM]
Posts: 4,340