LJ To Fins for a 2nd?

[NaptownChief]

Stolen from the Mane:

The latest and probably most possible trade rumor is making the rounds of NFL sites and media.


With the Dolphins losing running back Lamar Gordon to a dislocated shoulder, there are reports that the Chiefs and the Dolphins are close on a trade that would send Larry Johnson to Miami for safety Arturo Freeman and a future 2nd round pick!

The earlier reports of McCardell for Johnson were media driven. That trade wouldn't have worked money/salary cap wise. Along with the Chief's would have to agree to a new deal with McCardell.

This new rumor seems to have legs in NFL circles.

The trade would give the Chief's some needed help in the secondary, along with a high second round pick.

As for the Dolphins everyone from the Coach to the GM are scrambling to save their jobs. With Jay Fiedler being named starter (again) it's seems that developing A.J. Feeley as gone out the window and getting a win is more important to the coaching staff.

You also must remember the Broncos had a deal in place with the Dolphins for Mike Anderson. That deal would have given the Broncos a third round draft pick. That's a pick that they wanted because they knew the league had planned to slap them with the illegal salary cap procedure, and take away their 3 round pick in 2005.

Right now Miami is in desperation mode and are throwing anything they can on the field.

[jcroft]

What is "The Mane's" source on this?

[jcroft]

BTW, I think I might have to do this deal, if it's for real. I was aganist trading LJ b/c I didn't think we'd get anywhere near what's he's worth. Well, in this deal we get a HIGH 2nd rouder -- which is close to where LJ was drafted in the first place (end of the 1st round). Plus, Freeman. It's tempting -- even though I don't think a saftey is a huge need for us right now.

[NaptownChief]

What is "The Mane's" source on this?

Not sure....

[Iowanian]

Seriously.........why would the Chiefs want another Safety?

Harts and Pile are both decent backups.......and Freeman isn't going to displace woods or Wesley.

[NaptownChief]

BTW, I think I might have to do this deal, if it's for real. I was aganist trading LJ b/c I didn't think we'd get anywhere near what's he's worth. Well, in this deal we get a HIGH 2nd rouder -- which is close to where LJ was drafted in the first place (end of the 1st round). Plus, Freeman. It's tempting -- even though I don't think a saftey is a huge need for us right now.


Completely agree....LJ for a 34 year old McCardell would be foolish.

[jcroft]

I agree, Iowanian -- this trade wouldn't help us out right away. But, we'd be effecivtley giving away LJ for what we paid for him. I'd pull the trigger. I don't think we're gonna get a 1st rounder for him -- a high second is very close to what we paid and is the best we'll do.

It won't help right now, but I'd like to have that pick...

[KCFalcon59]

With the luck the Chiefs have had so far this year. The moment we trade johnson is the moment we will need him.

I say keep him.

[Miles]

Im hardly positive on this but i think their owe their 2nd to Philly for the AJ Feeley trade.

[Rausch]

This trade would be $#it...

We bench Woods that some big $ to be riding pine. There's no way in hell we outright cut him, and good luck trading him. Plus, we don't NEED another S.

A bigger, more physical CB would make sense, and I'd even consider it, but a fuggen SAFETY!?!

[siberian khatru]

Seriously.........why would the Chiefs want another Safety?



Freeman played some CB in college. ;)

[jcroft]

With the luck the Chiefs have had so far this year. The moment we trade johnson is the moment we will need him.

I say keep him.

Good point. Superstition is always a great thing to base major trades on, too.

[jcroft]

This trade would be $#it...

We bench Woods that some big $ to be riding pine. There's no way in hell we outright cut him, and good luck trading him. Plus, we don't NEED another S.

A bigger, more physical CB would make sense, and I'd even consider it, but a fuggen SAFETY!?!

Forget Freeman -- this deal is worth it for JUST the second rounder. Freeman is just icing. I'd do it for the second rounder alone.

[Iowanian]

If the Chiefs trade LJ for another safety....I think I'm driving to arrowhead and crapping in Carls Toupe'

[Miles]

Just looked it up...they dont have that pick to trade. It would have to be for 2006 2nd.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/8009908.htm?1c

[jcroft]

If the Chiefs trade LJ for another safety....I think I'm driving to arrowhead and crapping in Carls Toupe'

But in this deal, they don't trade him for a saftey -- they trade him for a high second round pick -- almost where we drafted LJ.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

If the Chiefs trade LJ for another safety....I think I'm driving to arrowhead and crapping in Carls Toupe'

I'll be right with ya.

They better not do this.

[jcroft]

Just looked it up...they dont have that pick to trade. It would have to be for 2006 2nd.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/8009908.htm?1c

Hmmm....not as appealing, but still perhaps worth doing...

[Iowanian]

better stay back Cody.........I'm no grouper pooper.


I think I'm calling BS on all of these rumors until/unless something happens.........then I'll calmly walk to the back of the wandering horde and yell "Yeah....I knew it Too"

[Ralphy Boy]

The future 2nd round pick is the part that worries me. If it's not next year, it could be a low second rounder in 2006 and if I recall the draft value charts correctly a 2006 2nd rounder would be the equivalent of a 2005 3rd. Looking at it that way, Freeman would have to contribute a ton on Special Teams this year, which I have no reason to think he wouldn't, to be worth it. Our coverage units aren't doing real hot right now, 29th in the league on kickoffs and 27th on punts. Last years wasn't very good either, 27th on kickoffs but 13th on punts. With the addition of Tynes, our kickoffs should be better covered. The problems at punter I would think contribute to the current standing.

[NaptownChief]

Forget Freeman -- this deal is worth it for JUST the second rounder. Freeman is just icing. I'd do it for the second rounder alone.


agreed

[jcroft]

The future 2nd round pick is the part that worries me. If it's not next year, it could be a low second rounder in 2006 and if I recall the draft value charts correctly a 2006 2nd rounder would be the equivalent of a 2005 3rd. Looking at it that way, Freeman would have to contribute a ton on Special Teams this year, which I have no reason to think he wouldn't, to be worth it. Our coverage units aren't doing real hot right now, 29th in the league on kickoffs and 27th on punts. Last years wasn't very good either, 27th on kickoffs but 13th on punts. With the addition of Tynes, our kickoffs should be better covered. The problems at punter I would think contribute to the current standing.

Is Freeman a special teams stud? I don't know much about him. I don't see anyone that's not a WR, LB, or CB making a major imapct on this team this year. If we trade LJ it either needs to be for a 2nd rounder or higher, or aplayer that will help us RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

[Ralphy Boy]

Just looked it up...they dont have that pick to trade. It would have to be for 2006 2nd.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/8009908.htm?1c

right, started my reply before you posted this. Freeman better be hellacious on special teams if this happens because at this point, I'd pass or say it better be their 2006 first rounder. Doesn't sound likely?

Think about the idea positively for Miami, they get to use their 2006 1st rounder on a player who should make a big contribution in 2004.

How many teams, with an entire front office & coaching staff, would like to get a return 2 years earlier on a first round pick?

The part that sucks for us is that we have to wait 2 freaking years for the first rounder, in which case we ask for a 2005 3rd or 4th & 5th, if its a deal straight up...player for pick(s).

[Ralphy Boy]

Is Freeman a special teams stud? I don't know much about him. I don't see anyone that's not a WR, LB, or CB making a major imapct on this team this year. If we trade LJ it either needs to be for a 2nd rounder or higher, or aplayer that will help us RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

I don't know, here's an excerpt from his bio
"Added nine tackles, a fumble recovery and a forced fumble on special teams"

[NaptownChief]

How many teams, with an entire front office & coaching staff, would like to get a return 2 years earlier on a first round pick?




Not to mention they are currently had by the short hairs considering they are now starting a FA RB that they cut just a few weeks ago.

[stevieray]

Who is going to replace Priest in the future?

That could be next year. And once again, we won't have a starting RB.

Can Blaylock take the pounding 25 times a game?

[jcroft]

Who is going to replace Priest in the future?

That could be next year. And once again, we won't have a starting RB.

Can Blaylock take the pounding 25 times a game?

I understand that argument, but are you convinced LJ is the guy? Is his attitude problem worth waiting to find out?

[Skip Towne]

How can any of us say if this is a good trade? None of us know what we have in LJ. He could be the next Marcus Allen and we wouldn't know it. Thank DV for that. He also thought he had a third down back in Priest and used him very little his first couple of games.

[Ralphy Boy]

Not to mention they are currently had by the short hairs considering they are now starting a FA RB that they cut just a few weeks ago.

Exactly. If ever Carl wanted to make the fans have any respect for him, it would be getting a 1st out of the deal plus a pick or two in 2005.

How is a guy who was a first round draft pick in 2003 not worth a first rounder 3 years later, especially to a team in their situation?

I don't think it will happen, but since we are talking about an 06 pick anyway and have to wait 2 years to get a return on our investment, the pot could be a little sweeter.

Value chart wise, is a 2006 2nd rounder considered anything close to a reasonable value? I guess the "value chart" doesn't really account for this type of situation.

[ChiefsCountry]

Then lets just trade Priest to Dolphins for Chambers, Thomas, and Surtain. Since LJ is so untouchable. :rolleyes:

[stevieray]

I understand that argument, but are you convinced LJ is the guy? Is his attitude problem worth waiting to find out?

That is the conundrum, after recent events, I'd find it hard to see LJ even wanting to play for Vermeil. Unless DV's assessment is correct, and LJ's Dad tells him to suck it up.

Man, we are lucky to have Priest Holmes.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

How can any of us say if this is a good trade? None of us know what we have in LJ. He could be the next Marcus Allen and we wouldn't know it. Thank DV for that. He also thought he had a third down back in Priest and used him very little his first couple of games.

If it weren't for TRich getting injured against the Giants (the game before the Washington Redskins game in 2001; Priest's breakout game), the Chiefs probably never would've found out that Priest is/was a stud. Because DV and AS wanted to split carries with both PH and TRich, and since TRich was out...well...we all know what happened next...

[jcroft]

How can any of us say if this is a good trade? None of us know what we have in LJ. He could be the next Marcus Allen and we wouldn't know it. Thank DV for that. He also thought he had a third down back in Priest and used him very little his first couple of games.


First off, we could have the next Trezelle Jenkins in LJ and never know it -- which is fine by me. If we trade him for what we paid, we didn't lose anything. We didn't gain, either, but we didn't lose. I can live with that.

Second -- yes, DV underestimated Priest to begin with, but DV is also the one who wanted Priest over Charlie Garner, when almost all of us here on the board were after Garner.

If anyone is responsible for "discovering" Priest Holmes, it's DV.

[NaptownChief]

Value chart wise, is a 2006 2nd rounder considered anything close to a reasonable value? I guess the "value chart" doesn't really account for this type of situation.


Well there are two different NFL Value Charts....The one that applies to all other NFL teams when trading amongst themselves and the one that applies when dealing with the emotionally and mentally handicapped Peterson.

[PastorMikH]

I am asuming that this is not substantiated so I'm not going to hold my breath or get upset. But lets say it does turn out...

The second round pick actually makes this trade sound a bit better. The Dolphins are looking worse than us this year. I don't really like the fact that Arturo Freeman is a safety. And I'd like to see what draft that 2nd round pick would come from - next years or 2-3 years from now and would we be sending a draft pick too that isn't mentioned. From the looks of it, they are going to have a high pick next year. If we can get a high second out of LJ plus a decent player as gravy, I wouldn't be extremely upset.

[jcroft]

If it weren't for TRich getting injured against the Giants (the game before the Washington Redskins game in 2001; Priest's breakout game), the Chiefs probably never would've found out that Priest is/was a stud. Because DV and AS wanted to split carries with both PH and TRich, and since TRich was out...well...we all know what happened next...

That's all true, but it's nothing new. Happens all the time. See Kurt Warner and Tom Brady for recent examples.

DV still was the one that brought Priest here. No one else in the league was after Priest, and everyone on this board wanted Garner. DV knew best.

[Ralphy Boy]

Who is going to replace Priest in the future?

That could be next year. And once again, we won't have a starting RB.

Can Blaylock take the pounding 25 times a game?

Priest isn't going anywhere unless, God forbid, he gets injured.

IMO, he made the retirement remark for attention alone. I like the guy, but he wants attention badly and I think he feels like because he's not an east or west coast player he doesn't get enough love for his accomplishments and to suggest that one of the best RB's in the game is thinking about retiring in his prime is simply him trying to grab some Barry Sanders like attention.

[stevieray]

Priest isn't going anywhere unless, God forbid, he gets injured.

IMO, he made the retirement remark for attention alone. I like the guy, but he wants attention badly and I think he feels like because he's not an east or west coast player he doesn't get enough love for his accomplishments and to suggest that one of the best RB's in the game is thinking about retiring in his prime is simply him trying to grab some Barry Sanders like attention.


It had to do with being away from his family while his father is in Iraq.

Priest needing attention...? that just doesn't fit.

[Frazod]

I don't normally comment on rumors until they become facts, but what the hell - sounds like a good deal for all concerned.

[jcroft]

Just gotta say this -- I don't really buy any of this. I think it's a good deal if it's true, but I'm not really buying that it is.

I'm hopeful, though!

[Ralphy Boy]

It had to do with being away from his family while his father is in Iraq.

Priest needing attention...? that just doesn't fit.

Well you didn't really expect him to say "I thought about retiring because I didn't feel that I was getting enough attention." now did you?

Remember when he got here, how little attention he got at first and how verbally quiet he was when he did get attention, then remember how much of a change seemed to take place before last season when he started doing more interviews? He loves the spot light, and theres nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that I think that sometimes people say or do things to get attention or to feel more appreciated and in this case I think that is what Priest did.

After all we'd drafted his replacement the year before.

[Ultra Peanut]

<img src="http://fluff.free.fr/dessins%20en%20vrac%20(paint,%20peinture,%20aquarelle,%20marqueur,%20morve%20de%20chamois%20etc)/colors/regurgitated-guts%20(dapres%20une%20chanson%20de%20cannibal%20corpse).jpg" style="width: 490px; height: 693px; border: 0" alt="" />

[whoman69]

Who is going to replace Priest in the future?

That could be next year. And once again, we won't have a starting RB.

Can Blaylock take the pounding 25 times a game?
I've argued this in the past, but clearly LJ is no longer a viable commidity. Fresh off diaper gate, its certain that the Chiefs will look to ship him. Guess in two years we'll be looking again for that lucky Greg Hill/Mike Cloud type back.

[stevieray]

Well you didn't really expect him to say "I thought about retiring because I didn't feel that I was getting enough attention." now did you?

Remember when he got here, how little attention he got at first and how verbally quiet he was when he did get attention, then remember how much of a change seemed to take place before last season when he started doing more interviews? He loves the spot light, and theres nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that I think that sometimes people say or do things to get attention or to feel more appreciated and in this case I think that is what Priest did.

After all we'd drafted his replacement the year before.

Sorry, I just don't see that in Priest.

[NaptownChief]

Guess in two years we'll be looking again for that lucky Greg Hill/Mike Cloud type back.


Don't forget Shehee....

[Logical]

Forget Freeman -- this deal is worth it for JUST the second rounder. Freeman is just icing. I'd do it for the second rounder alone.


Wow as much as I dislike LJ and think he is a wasted pick, a straight up trade for a 2nd rounder is not a good trade.

[suds79]

I can understand concerns with RB in the future being that Priest is getting up there.

I just can't help but like the idea of unloading LJ. I simply don't like him and don't want to see him someday as our feature back.

Perhaps the Bills will make Travis Henry avaliable in a year or 2 when they switch over to Willis.

Of course then there's always the draft.

[VonneMarie]

Don't forget Shehee....
Off Topic. Are you registered at Skyscrapercity.com?

[suds79]

Wow as much as I dislike LJ and think he is a wasted pick, a straight up trade for a 2nd rounder is not a good trade.

Sure considering we spent a 1st on him.

But that was then and this is now. I think the sooner we realize that LJ's value is no where near where it was when he came out of the draft, the better.

I'd take a 2nd for him in no time flat and just call it a bad decision to draft him.

[Rausch]

Wow as much as I dislike LJ and think he is a wasted pick, a straight up trade for a 2nd rounder is not a good trade.

No, It's complete $3it. The only thing it does is make a thin team even thinner and pretty much helps us in no way THIS year.

[Logical]

Sure considering we spent a 1st on him.

But that was then and this is now. I think the sooner we realize that LJ's value is no where near where it was when he came out of the draft, the better.

I'd take a 2nd for him in no time flat and just call it a bad decision to draft him.

A second and a defensive player (though not a fuggen safety) is all I am thinking. I do not think he is worth first rounder or a pro bowl caliber player.

[morphius]

No, It's complete $3it. The only thing it does is make a thin team even thinner and pretty much helps us in no way THIS year.
Yup. All so we can use it on what the same people will call another wasted pick.

[NaptownChief]

Off Topic. Are you registered at Skyscrapercity.com?


Nope...Is there someone stealing the userid?

[VonneMarie]

Nope...Is there someone stealing the userid?
I dunno, but theres a Naptown from Indy there. Just wondering if that was you.

[tk13]

I dunno, but theres a Naptown from Indy there. Just wondering if that was you.
Naptown is a nickname for Indianapolis... go to any Pacers and Colts board and you'll see somebody with that in their name. :)

[NaptownChief]

I dunno, but theres a Naptown from Indy there. Just wondering if that was you.


Interesting....



I take it you are in the architecture/construction business?

[VonneMarie]

Naptown is a nickname for Indianapolis... go to any Pacers and Colts board and you'll see somebody with that in their name. :)
I didn't know! :banghead:

Carry on...

[VonneMarie]

Interesting....



I take it you are in the architecture/construction business?
Nope just like cities skyscrapers, skylines, ect...

[NaptownChief]

Naptown is a nickname for Indianapolis... go to any Pacers and Colts board and you'll see somebody with that in their name. :)


And they are probably really smart and witty also.

[Rausch]

Yup. All so we can use it on what the same people will call another wasted pick.

I'm a realist. A draft pick is a CHANCE at a great, good, or piss poor player. That's it. It's always a gamble no matter the hype of an individual player.

That pick, that gamble, CAN'T help us this year. Period. And we do need some help.

[Rausch]

And they are probably really smart and witty also.

Perhaps they'll consider swapping Naptown's if we throw in LJ... :p

[VonneMarie]

I see it now, India-NAP-apolis. ROFL

[Skip Towne]

I see it now, India-NAP-apolis. ROFL
Very good.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I see it now, India-NAP-apolis. ROFL

Blonde? :)

[VonneMarie]

Blonde? :)
Brunette. :thumb:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Brunette. :thumb:

I'm kinda dating a mixed brunette/kinda red haired gal. Does that equal blonde? She's kinda ditsy.

[VonneMarie]

I'm kinda dating a mixed brunette/kinda red haired gal. Does that equal blonde? She's kinda ditsy.
Why don't you go ask her that...

[the Talking Can]

trading him for a 2nd in 2006?

sorry, they're the ones in a bind, why would we have to wait for a return?

plus, why does anyone trust CP with a 2nd round draft pick?

or what if Priest retires or is injured again....the only RB worth a nickle on our team would be Blaylock...then we're drafting another RB...rinse, wash, repeat...

[Sure-Oz]

Gotta love the ditsy bitches, i know of one, except she is smart but acts ditsy to get attn, whore.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Why don't you go ask her that...

LOL Nah...

[VonneMarie]

Gotta love the ditsy bitches, i know of one, except she is smart but acts ditsy to get attn, whore.
WTF they have to be bitches? I'm outta here.

[Sure-Oz]

WTF they have to be bitches? I'm outta here.
No they don't but this one is, until she proves otherwise with me. :harumph:

[Denizen]

According to the nflpa.org site Freeman's 2005 base salary is $3 million bucks. Sounds like a future cap casualty. No wonder the Phins are trying to unload him.

[jcroft]

Now that I know we're talking 2006 pick here, I'm less likley to jump on this. But I still think some of you guys are absolutley nuts if you think a 2nd round pick -- especially one from a shitty team -- isn't a good trade straight up for LJ.

Give me one good reason why his value would be HIGHER than it was coming out of the draft. The dude was basically a second-rounder. Very end of the first round. He fell very far, and I'm sure there was a reason for it.

Since the time he was drafted, he's done only one thing of any significance: been a whiny bitch and caused media and locker room problems.

How does that RAISE his value?

Sorry, guys, but if the Chiefs trade LJ, they're NOT going to get what they paid for him. Get used to it, so you're not pissed when it happens.

[Rausch]

Now that I know we're talking 2006 pick here, I'm less likley to jump on this. But I still think some of you guys are absolutley nuts if you think a 2nd round pick -- especially one from a shitty team -- isn't a good trade straight up for LJ.

Give me one good reason why his value would be HIGHER than it was coming out of the draft. The dude was basically a second-rounder. Very end of the first round. He fell very far, and I'm sure there was a reason for it.

Since the time he was drafted, he's done only one thing of any significance: been a whiny bitch and caused media and locker room problems.

How does that RAISE his value?


First, when the comments were relayed to LJ they were taken out of context and DV himself said they were overblown. LJ is still a young pup in this league and what he needs to do is take that next big step in his development (taking the diaper off.) Now, it should have been put in a better way, but the sentiment is the same. LJ of course took it only as "he's calling me a ****'n baby."

2nd, this is exactly what happened to Deuce McAlister, only Priest won't be traded, he'll retire in a year or two. Deuce fell on people's boards that year and landed at the Saints pick, who took him as insurence in case the Cross-dressing-pot-head didn't straighten up.

2 years later Deuce tore up the league and became a top 5 NFL back. Patience...

[Mile High Mania]

Maybe they can hold out for a better pick ... like a 2008 1st rounder.

[Rausch]

Maybe they can hold out for a better pick ... like a 2008 1st rounder.

Or a 2nd and a 3rd in 2525...