The latest weak link in the Chiefs chain...

[Gaz]

So much for “the best Offensive line in the NFL.”

The Jaguars got penetration all day long. The came up the middle and they came around the edges. The suckage on the OL was complete, from LT clear over to RT. Green was running for his life the entire game and there were no holes for Holmes. It was so bad that the staff threw Bober in there for a while.

It is easy to look at Tynes bad kicks and the complete and total owning of McCleon and howl in aguish. But if you want to see where the game was lost, look no further than the trenches. Where our strength used to reside.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has a NEW thing to worry about.

[MichaelH]

Yep!
I wasn't fortunate to see the game on TV. But on the radio broadcast, it sounded like Trent was running for his life. That plus Priest never got to break one loose.

I'd love to say I hope this season will open some eyes for next season. I'm just afraid the starters on offense that are worth anything won't be around next year. The Chiefs chance was blown last year. :(

[Braincase]

I'd love to respond after the thorazine wears off some tim in March.

[ROYC75]

Age is catching up with the line, Roaf,Shields, poor pass blocking by Welborne & Bober.

Waters and Wiegmann sometimes lose a guy.......

It's not what it use to be !

[TEX]

And Welbourn was by far the worst of the group. :shake:

[ROYC75]

Again, age is a problem.... Wiegmann, Shields and Roaf are all in there 30's....

[Skip Towne]

You guys are just too depressing. I'm gonna go be a Steelers fan. Signed, Saulbadguy

[Scaga]

You guys are just too depressing. I'm gonna go be a Steelers fan. Signed, Saulbadguy

Their cupcake schedule goes away starting next week. New England and Philly....

[Gaz]

Skip-

Don’t give up, man.

Cheek is a good punter.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found a bright spot.

[Stinger]

What I found interesting was that the chiefs kept trying to pound it up the middle, which has work the last few weeks, and getting stuffed. Yet when they would sweep they seem to have some success. Wondering why Al didn't adjust and kept trying the middle?

[penguinz]

What I found interesting was that the chiefs kept trying to pound it up the middle, which has work the last few weeks, and getting stuffed. Yet when they would sweep they seem to have some success. Wondering why Al didn't adjust and kept trying the middle?WTF are you talking about!? Priest ran the ball 5 times in the first half. I do not think that qualifies as 'kept trying to pound it up the middle'.
:cuss:

[oldandslow]

Welborne cannot pass block - plain and simple...

and no - he is not as good as John Tait.

[Raiderhater]

The weakest link is Saunders.

More play fakes would have given Green a bit more time in the pocket.

[Gaz]

oldandslow-

The problem is not Welbourn. Or perhaps I should say, the problem is not limited to Welbourn.

The Jaguars had their way with our entire OL. Inside and outside.’

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering what is up with the OL formerly known as the best in the NFL.

[Saulbadguy]

There are higher powers at work here. The football gods did not want us to win the game, plain and simple. They helped us out last year, and we let them down. This year, its all coming back to bite us on the ass.

[Demonpenz]

As I have been saying all offseason, we will miss john tait this year!

[Crush]

There are higher powers at work here. The football gods did not want us to win the game, plain and simple. They helped us out last year, and we let them down. This year, its all coming back to bite us on the ass.



:hmmm: So you're saying that we need to sacrifice another goat?

[Gaz]

As I have been saying all offseason, we will miss john tait this year!

oldandslow-

The problem is not Welbourn. Or perhaps I should say, the problem is not limited to Welbourn.

The Jaguars had their way with our entire OL. Inside and outside.’

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering what is up with the OL formerly known as the best in the NFL.


It ain’t just Welbourn, folks.

The OL sucked from one end to the other.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees a much broader problem.

[oldandslow]

Gaz - I agree. The entire OL was suspect yesterday. And JW can run block.

However, losing JT hurt. When you are 6 mil under the cap, why not keep a very good run and pass blocker instead of a one dimensional lineman?

[ptlyon]

Gaz - I agree. The entire OL was suspect yesterday. And JW can run block.

However, losing JT hurt. When you are 6 mil under the cap, why not keep a very good run and pass blocker instead of a one dimensional lineman?

Because it would have cost 34 million, not 6.

[oldandslow]

The Bears gave Tait a six-year, $33 million contract that included a $3 million signing bonus.

The final years of the contract are apt to be voided out.

So no - Pytlon - It did not cost 34 mil THIS year to keep JT.

[MichaelH]

Well I hope Tait's happy. Bastard!

[BigChiefFan]

Carl Peterson is the weak link. It all starts at the top.

[whoman69]

They weren't up to par, but by far the weakest link is Dexter McCleon. I said when Gunther first came here that he would not be able to play in the new scheme. I'm surprised he has not been replace because he has been picked on and burned worse than Bartee ever did.

[ptlyon]

So no - Pytlon - It did not cost 34 mil THIS year to keep JT.

I didn't say it was all going to be this year, but thought someone would have taken it that way after I posted it.

Point is, that is TOO MUCH for that position, no matter how you do the numbers.

[InChiefsHeaven]

oldandslow-

The problem is not Welbourn. Or perhaps I should say, the problem is not limited to Welbourn.

The Jaguars had their way with our entire OL. Inside and outside.’

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering what is up with the OL formerly known as the best in the NFL.


Zactly. But of course, being a good Chiefs fan, I must point the finger at the Zebras, at least on a couple of notable calls. Priest did break away for a nice long run which was called back on a holding call against Welbourn. When they showed the replay, I just about had a freakin' heart attack. The hold was minimal at best, basically the kind of hold that goes on all the freakin' time that never gets called.

The Gods are angry indeed. They gave us the greatest offense in football for 2 seasons, and now it's just too damn late.

God, it HURTS being a Chiefs fan...

[Bob Dole]

That plus Priest never got to break one loose.



He did. Unfortunately, as has been the case too many times this season:

1-10-JAX 40 (14:37) 31-P.Holmes up the middle to JAX 15 for 25 yards (27-R.Mathis). PENALTY on KC-76-J.Welbourn, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at JAX 35.

[Rausch]

The weakest link is Saunders.

More play fakes would have given Green a bit more time in the pocket.

The Chiefs offense doesn not have an identity. We don't just maul it out and protect the defense like against Baltimore and we don't know if we want to try and open it up like the Rams and be a pass first team.

No aspect of this team has been reliable enough to "lean" on. No identity yet. This season reminds me of our first year with Priest where it took us about 6 games to understand HOW we needed to play...

[Rain Man]

Who got the sacks, anyway? I guess I didn't see Henderson and Stroud running amok. Welbourn made a few mistakes, including that ticky-tack holding call, and I thought Willie Roaf did fine handling his opponent's one-move speed rush. It looked like the guy was collapsing the pocket, but in reality Willie was just letting him run behind Trent.

That said, we gave up six sacks, which is the most we've given up in a long time. Who was getting them? It seemed like it was more linebackers based on my foggy memory.

[Raiderhater]

The Chiefs offense doesn not have an identity. We don't just maul it out and protect the defense like against Baltimore and we don't know if we want to try and open it up like the Rams and be a pass first team.

No aspect of this team has been reliable enough to "lean" on. No identity yet. This season reminds me of our first year with Priest where it took us about 6 games to understand HOW we needed to play...

I guess I can agree with that. Though, I know the identity that Saunders wants us to have, he wants the Ram style offense. I understand that he was brought in to do the job a certain way, but you have to be flexible, you have to realize what you have (as well as what you don't have) and make adjustments.

What we have is Priest Holmes, and used properly, he will help bring about that Ram style offense. Saunders needs to learn that the two are not mutually exclusive.

[htismaqe]

Who got the sacks, anyway? I guess I didn't see Henderson and Stroud running amok. Welbourn made a few mistakes, including that ticky-tack holding call, and I thought Willie Roaf did fine handling his opponent's one-move speed rush. It looked like the guy was collapsing the pocket, but in reality Willie was just letting him run behind Trent.

That said, we gave up six sacks, which is the most we've given up in a long time. Who was getting them? It seemed like it was more linebackers based on my foggy memory.

Akin Oyodele or whatever his name is...yes, they came from the linebackers...

[CrazyHorse]

So much for “the best Offensive line in the NFL.”

The Jaguars got penetration all day long. The came up the middle and they came around the edges. The suckage on the OL was complete, from LT clear over to RT. Green was running for his life the entire game and there were no holes for Holmes. It was so bad that the staff threw Bober in there for a while.

It is easy to look at Tynes bad kicks and the complete and total owning of McCleon and howl in aguish. But if you want to see where the game was lost, look no further than the trenches. Where our strength used to reside.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has a NEW thing to worry about.


I wish it were that easy. Our offensive line was put in a position to lose yesterday.

By constantly running the ball up the middle, and not running our sweep plays and screens to spread the defense, Saunders put our guys in a position to lose not only the game, but thier confidence. We ran one sweep for 10 yards. The rest of the runs were in the middle of the line giving the Jags the advantage. Not to mention, they didn't have to worry about the perimeter, so it gave them more options in thier pass rush combinations.

Not only did Saunders take us out of the game, he gave the Jags the best possible game senarios to beat us. He called plays were the matchups favored the Jags.

Besides anytime that Kennison is the 1st read, it is like playing with a handicap.

[Rain Man]

Akin Oyodele or whatever his name is...yes, they came from the linebackers...

So who wasn't holding off the linebackers? Was it Richardson's fault? Or were the tackles or center not picking up their new assignments? I never saw anyone come in unblocked, which would imply that someone was getting to the linebacker, but getting beat.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Seemed to me on many, many occasions, Green had all day to find a guy, but their corners bottled up our guys.
Green got sacked 3 times when he stepped up in the pocket (after 3.5 sec's) and got got hit.

That said, a first down in that*edit* second to last drive was all we needed.

[CrazyHorse]

We looked like we were still playing the Ravens. The Chiefs attacked the Ravens linebackers instead of letting the LBs come to the O line on the perimeter. Though that worked for us in the Ravens game situation, it is not the type of run blocking team the Chiefs are.

We didn't play our game.

Green was sacked most of the time from behind. Meaning that he was holding the ball too long. We all know our recievers suck. But we were able to win in spite of that because we focused on the things we did well. Now we just can't seem to find our ass with both hands.

[KCTitus]

The Bears gave Tait a six-year, $33 million contract that included a $3 million signing bonus.

The final years of the contract are apt to be voided out.

So no - Pytlon - It did not cost 34 mil THIS year to keep JT.

No, it didnt cost 34, but it did cost 14M (11M Cap number) to keep him:

Last Friday, the Bears signed Tait, 29, to a six-year, $34 million contract that includes $14 million in guaranteed money for 2004 and a salary cap charge of about $11 million for the upcoming season. Signing the offer sheet meant the Chiefs had seven days to match the offer or decline the contract.

[TEX]

FWIW, I would NOT have paid Tait that much either...

My question still is the same as it was a few months ago - With Welbourn, Bober, Williams and everyone else who tries to play RT absolutely $UCKING A$$, can someone tell me again why we released Marcus Spears so early in TC? He looks pretty good in a Texans uniform and even though he was/is nothing special, he can play RT better than anyone currently trying to play it now... :hmmm:

[ptlyon]

No, it didnt cost 34, but it did cost 14M (11M Cap number) to keep him:

Thanks Titus. That is what I was trying to get across.

Rep.

[Mr. Laz]

Welborn was not a tackle at philly, he was a 99% guard



we should of signed a real tackle or had welbourn play guard here and move shield out to right tackle.

shields is much smoother and quicker.... and is much better at handling the speed guys to the outside.


face it... we've made a string of bad personnel decisions and now they are biting us in the groin.

[TEX]

Welborn was not a tackle at philly, he was a 99% guard



we should of signed a real tackle or had welbourn play guard here and move shield out to right tackle.

shields is much smoother and quicker.... and is much better at handling the speed guys to the outside.


face it... we've made a string of bad personnel decisions and now they are biting us in the groin.

You are absolutely correct. In any given season, some work and some don't.Most ALL our personnel decisions this past offseason have been wrong. And most were so obvious. :shake:

IMO, what's happening with the CHIEFS this season forces one to really question the old ," Coaches know best" excuse that gets played all the time regarding personnel decisions. Fact is, sometimes they don't... :hmmm:

[2bikemike]

I did not see the game only heard it on the net. The O line did not get old over night. They played a damn good ball game 2 weeks ago. I know Green was scrambling for his life. But from what I could hear it sounded to me like the play calling was off and nothing ever got on track until the 3rd qtr. We had a few nice drives. What was different I can't tell you.

I do believe we don't have the chemistry on the line like we used to and by the time we get enough it might be too late. This offense has sputtered quite a bit and I attributed it to the injuries and missing wideouts. Hopefully with everybody back Green can get reaquainted with his recievers. AS needs to get his playbook in order and stick with what is working. IMHO playcalling on both sides of the ball have been poor.

Jacksonville came out and out toughed us the way we did Bmore. I agree with Gaz the game was lost in the trenches. When we win in the trenches we win ball games.

[Rick]

That's ridiculous. They had one bad game in about 5 years. Our play-calling in the first half didn't exactly help them. They did not get bad since 2 weeks ago.

[Chiefnj]

The best way to keep a player is to sign him to a contract extension prior to his current contract expiring. It's what the Jets did with Pennington this offseason. The player feels the team takes care of him and the team benefits from not having the player sniff another contract.

That said, it takes two to reach an agreement. I don't believe for a second that Tait wanted to stay in KC. Second, 14 million for a RT is preposterous.

Next, this isn't the fault of Welbourn. He's a guard. That's where he was playing the last few years and playing well. Just because the team and media gives you good quotes about the guy having a "mean streak" doesn't mean you should buy it and assume he is going to scare speed rushers away from the QB.

In my humble armchair GM opinion, the fault lies with the scouting department and the player personnel department for not having an adequate backup tackle in place. They drafted a couple of tackles a few years back, I assume to address this contingency, and the players have not stepped up or earned a starting role.

It's tough to win if don't develop your draft picks.

[Mr. Laz]

the weakest link has been and continues to be our personnel dept.


bad drafting,bad free agency decision/philosophies continue to make our talent base weak.

[Gaz]

...They did not get bad since 2 weeks ago.

Yes they did get that bad.

Why? I dunno. But there is no doubt that our OL failed to open holes for Holmes and failed to block the Jaguars.

We lost the battle in the trenches and it showed. Both of our TDs came on improvisation by Green after scrambling for his life. Busted plays.

The OL stunk yesterday. Not just Welbourn. Not just Roaf. All of them.

xoxo~
Gaz
Pondering the “they were too rested” explanation.

[Ultra Peanut]

The whole line was getting Welbourned.

[Gaz]

Welbourn has been verbed.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering if being welbourned is worse than being mcleoned.

[Ultra Peanut]

I think it works really well because you don't even have to change his name (like with "Burntee") to hear "burned" while pronouncing it.

[ptlyon]

Wondering if being welbourned is worse than being mcleoned.


I was McCleingoned over the weekend. Believe me, you don't want any part of that.

[Mr. Kotter]

This is my take. Defensives are more aggressive against the Chiefs this year; most of the pressure has come on blitzes....although the defensive tackles and ends have definitely gotten pressure, the blitzers have forced our O-line to go almost exclusively one on one.

Result: Not much double teaming at the point of attack for the run, and not many swing passes or screens in the passing game, because our backs are being used to protect Green.

Until we begin to defend the blitzes better we are gonna face a lot of third and longs, and although we do that as well as anyone in the league it's an uphill battle. And that mean our defense is on the field too much. I think Gunther HAS improved this defense, but it's not a top ten defense....UNLESS we can keep them fresh. That means ball control.

Beat the blitzes, and control the ball.....and suddenly we turn our season around. JMHO.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Welbourn has been verbed.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering if being welbourned is worse than being mcleoned.


Not nearly as good as being Lewinski'd...

[Rick]

Yes they did get that bad.

Why? I dunno. But there is no doubt that our OL failed to open holes for Holmes and failed to block the Jaguars.

We lost the battle in the trenches and it showed. Both of our TDs came on improvisation by Green after scrambling for his life. Busted plays.

The OL stunk yesterday. Not just Welbourn. Not just Roaf. All of them.

xoxo~
Gaz
Pondering the ?they were too rested? explanation.


True. I just don't think they've dropped from being one of if not the best offensive line in football.

[philfree]

Our O line owned the Ravens but IMO it's not quite as good as the last two years. The reason Jax got pressure was because we didn't run the ball enough in the 1st half. We came out throwing and 2nd 10 is a passing down so Jax was in the position to really bring it. Our O line is still one of the best but they have to be put in position excel. They weren't against the Jags.

PhilFree :arrow:

[andoman]

What I found interesting was that the chiefs kept trying to pound it up the middle, which has work the last few weeks, and getting stuffed. Yet when they would sweep they seem to have some success. Wondering why Al didn't adjust and kept trying the middle?

I was thinking the same thing during the game. The strength of the Jags D line is the tackles. The ends are scrubs from what I understand. Its funny but in games prior to this one I was thinking they had gone to the sweep well too often, but this was the game to run Holmes left and Holmes right ...

[Calcountry]

So much for “the best Offensive line in the NFL.”

The Jaguars got penetration all day long. The came up the middle and they came around the edges. The suckage on the OL was complete, from LT clear over to RT. Green was running for his life the entire game and there were no holes for Holmes. It was so bad that the staff threw Bober in there for a while.

It is easy to look at Tynes bad kicks and the complete and total owning of McCleon and howl in aguish. But if you want to see where the game was lost, look no further than the trenches. Where our strength used to reside.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has a NEW thing to worry about.

I guess we miss that guy Tait after all.

[Calcountry]

You guys are just too depressing. I'm gonna go be a Steelers fan. Signed, Saulbadguy
I heard someone was warming up the bandwagon, so you better not miss your chance to leave. :p

[Calcountry]

Skip-

Don’t give up, man.

Cheek is a good punter.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found a bright spot.

I heard the tailgating is good at KC? :p

[Logical]

Because it would have cost 34 million, not 6.False they could have franchise tagged him for right at 6 million this year.

[jspchief]

When the Offense turns over the game to the Defense on the 33 yard line, with 2:16 left, no opposing time outs, and the lead....you're insane to blame the offense.

The defense gave Jax their first opening drive TD this year. Is that the O's fault? The defense gave Jax a higher point total in the first half than they average in a total game. Is that the O's fault? Spotting a team a 14 point lead in the first quarter makes it tough for the O to stick to their gameplan.

I'm not saying it's solely on the D either, but they at least share the blame equally with the O and ST.

[mikey23545]

When the Offense turns over the game to the Defense on the 33 yard line, with 2:16 left, no opposing time outs, and the lead....you're insane to blame the offense.

The defense gave Jax their first opening drive TD this year. Is that the O's fault? The defense gave Jax a higher point total in the first half than they average in a total game. Is that the O's fault? Spotting a team a 14 point lead in the first quarter makes it tough for the O to stick to their gameplan.

I'm not saying it's solely on the D either, but they at least share the blame equally with the O and ST.

Complete drivel....The offense scored SIXTEEN (. x. )(. x. )(. x. )(. x. )ing points!.....And they didn't even need to score 17, they just had to make a frigging first down to win the game! :banghead:


Offense was to blame first, last, and all game this week....

[jspchief]

Complete drivel....The offense scored SIXTEEN (. x. )(. x. )(. x. )(. x. )ing points!.....And they didn't even need to score 17, they just had to make a frigging first down to win the game! :banghead:


Offense was to blame first, last, and all game this week....

You've been smoking too much of the dope that DV has been selling. Thinking that the only way we can win games is if the O scores 30 points is stupid. The offense took the lead with very little time left on the clock. They set the D up for almost as good of a scenario as they could ask for. Maybe the O failed to get the first down, but the D failed to hold a sh*tty offensive team. The D failed last, not the O.

We're so accustomed to expecting our O to bail our D's ass out, that we now give a passing grade to a sh*tty defensive performance. It's pathetic.

[Gaz]

It depends on your expectations.

We all expected the Offense to pick up pretty much where it left off. That is a reasonable expectation, IMO. Sure, the Enemy DCs had a chance to hone their Ds against the R&G attack and we swapped Tait for Welbourn. But the O is basically the same as the one that tore up the NFL for the last couple of seasons.

Turns out we were wrong. Something is broken in the Offense.

I expected Gunther to bring a new tude to the Defense, but I also expected that it would take a while for the Defense to shine in the new scheme. Gunther stated that his first priority is the run. Well, the run D has improved considerably in the first quarter of the season. Now he has to turn his attention to the passing D, particularly on 3rd down. We are progressing pretty much as I expected.

Turns out we were right. The run D is pretty good, the pass D still stinks.

Apparently, some of us expected Gunther to immediately turn a crappy Defense into a good Defense with the same players in a quarter of a season. Those folks are bound to be disappointed in the Defense, since it is not living up to their unrealistic expectations. Those folks have confused fantasy land [where the Chiefs have a good Defense] with the cold, hard world [where the Chiefs Defense is installing a new scheme]. The resulting cognitive dissonance is understandable. Once they come to terms with the state of the Chiefs D and realize we do not have an average Defense yet, perhaps the misdirected rage will abate.

The real problem is that the Offense is not living up to our realistic expectations.

That, and the fact that Special Teams inexplicably sucks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not at all surprised.

[htismaqe]

It depends on your expectations.

We all expected the Offense to pick up pretty much where it left off. That is a reasonable expectation, IMO. Sure, the Enemy DCs had a chance to hone their Ds against the R&G attack and we swapped Tait for Welbourn. But the O is basically the same as the one that tore up the NFL for the last couple of seasons.

Turns out we were wrong. Something is broken in the Offense.

I expected Gunther to bring a new tude to the Defense, but I also expected that it would take a while for the Defense to shine in the new scheme. Gunther stated that his first priority is the run. Well, the run D has improved considerably in the first quarter of the season. Now he has to turn his attention to the passing D, particularly on 3rd down. We are progressing pretty much as I expected.

Turns out we were right. The run D is pretty good, the pass D still stinks.

Apparently, some of us expected Gunther to immediately turn a crappy Defense into a good Defense with the same players in a quarter of a season. Those folks are bound to be disappointed in the Defense, since it is not living up to their unrealistic expectations. Those folks have confused fantasy land [where the Chiefs have a good Defense] with the cold, hard world [where the Chiefs Defense is installing a new scheme]. The resulting cognitive dissonance is understandable. Once they come to terms with the state of the Chiefs D and realize we do not have an average Defense yet, perhaps the misdirected rage will abate.

The real problem is that the Offense is not living up to our realistic expectations.

That, and the fact that Special Teams inexplicably sucks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not at all surprised.


I pretty much agree.

We're getting what I expected out of the defense. We're not getting what I expected out of the offense.

[Gaz]

...We're getting what I expected out of the defense. We're not getting what I expected out of the offense.

Well, sure. You could say the same thing in 10% of the space…

…but where’s the fun in that?

xoxo~
Gaz
Unpaid by the word.

[htismaqe]

Well, sure. You could say the same thing in 10% of the space…

…but where’s the fun in that?

xoxo~
Gaz
Unpaid by the word.


:p

[wolfpack0735]

the weakest link is........ QUEEN CARL and to some degree lamar hunt for letting this go on for years. :clap: