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Rausch
10-23-2004, 10:00 PM
Forget the politics, this guy HAMMERS BOTH commentators... ROFL

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2652831?showw=no&refsite=6761

David.
10-23-2004, 10:02 PM
yah, that was at DC for a while. Stewart is the man.

Fairplay
10-23-2004, 10:06 PM
I watched the show the next day, and the two hosts were dissing him as someone who obviously doesn't know his politics. Refering to him as just a comedian and such. They didn't look to enthused.

Deberg_1990
10-23-2004, 10:07 PM
I watched the show the next day, and the two hosts were dissing him as someone who obviously doesn't know his politics. Refering to him as just a comedian and such. They didn't look to enthused.

Yea..they dissed him the next day because they knew that had just been "OWNED" !

Mr. Kotter
10-23-2004, 10:09 PM
I enjoyed his humor...but his idea that "Crossfire" is somehow a "serious" news and political show is a joke. All they do is get idealogues from opposite sides of the isle to yell at each other, and talk over each other.

No compromise, no concessions, no consensus. It's ludicrous. Stewart expecting Crossfire to be "real," is as laughable as Crossfire expecting Stewart to give hardball questions to his guests.... :rolleyes:

Rausch
10-23-2004, 10:12 PM
****...

I'm that guy that posts $3it 4 years after it first came out...

David.
10-23-2004, 10:14 PM
DC FORUM completely OWNZ Rausch :p :)

jAZ
10-23-2004, 10:17 PM
Stewart is dead on... It was some of the greatest TV I've seen in months.

There is so little intellectual honesty on those shows (H & C's on Fox, etc), and he is the first person I've seen with the balls to go on their show, say what he/they think about the media KNOWING full well that he wouldn't be invited back.

If you watch closely you can see the producers talking to Tucker telling him to pull the cord on the segment.

It's a shame that they can't even honestly talking about themselves and the failure of tabliod "news" shows.

The reason I totally agree with John Stewart is the same reason I stopped posting in the DC. It was a total waste of time and energy. It accomplishes nothing in the end. And generally serves to mis-inform people rather than educate them.

Fairplay
10-23-2004, 10:19 PM
I enjoyed his humor...but his idea that "Crossfire" is somehow a "serious" news and political show is a joke. All they do is get idealogues from opposite sides of the isle to yell at each other, and talk over each other.

No compromise, no concessions, no consensus. It's ludicrous. Stewart expecting Crossfire to be "real," is as laughable as Crossfire expecting Stewart to give hardball questions to his guests.... :rolleyes:




I can't watch the show. I agree with you about the program.
I can't believe the show has high enough ratings to continue.

DenverChief
10-23-2004, 10:20 PM
ROFL thanks Brad :)

David.
10-23-2004, 10:21 PM
Jon is on Cspan right now. Hmmm

Rausch
10-24-2004, 12:41 AM
I just watched this agian and I'm completely amazed how blunt and outright cruel this man is to these two hosts. I'm not a liberal and I'm not a Dem but damn this man can improv insults with the best of 'em.

He fuggen gutted those poor b@st@rds...

KcMizzou
10-24-2004, 12:46 AM
I enjoyed his humor...but his idea that "Crossfire" is somehow a "serious" news and political show is a joke.
That's his whole point. The problem is that they present the show as a "serious" news and political show, when it's clearly not.

Kudos to Stewart.

Deberg_1990
10-24-2004, 12:48 AM
I just watched this agian and I'm completely amazed how blunt and outright cruel this man is to these two hosts. I'm not a liberal and I'm not a Dem but damn this man can improv insults with the best of 'em.

He fuggen gutted those poor b@st@rds...

Yea.but he told them the truth straight up and they didnt want to hear it because he was RIGHT! They were expecting him to come on there and talk about the election and he ripped into them instead. Did anyone else feel like punching that Tucker guy with the bowtie right in his freakin mouth??

KcMizzou
10-24-2004, 12:50 AM
Did anyone lese feel like punching that Tucker guy with the bowtie right in his freakin mouth?? Yep, and I tend to lean to the right.

"And you're a dick on your show just like you are on any other show" ROFL yikes.

Deberg_1990
10-24-2004, 12:55 AM
Yep, and I tend to lean to the right.



same here..., but he came off like a whiney little bitch. cant they get somebody better to represent the right?

Rausch
10-24-2004, 12:59 AM
Did anyone else feel like punching that Tucker guy with the bowtie right in his freakin mouth??

Yep.

I can handle a wing-tard. Sean Hannity is a wing-tard, but he's got personality and he makes me laugh. Same for James Carville. It doesn't matter if they're parrots because they make it so damned entertaining.

Those two clowns on Crossfire just bore me to tears...

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 03:27 AM
The reason I totally agree with John Stewart is the same reason I stopped posting in the DC. It was a total waste of time and energy. It accomplishes nothing in the end. And generally serves to mis-inform people rather than educate them.
If that isn't irony with that signature, then TJ is Bella Abzug.

Baby Lee
10-24-2004, 07:19 AM
I really can't believe that people are so enthralled with Jon's little ditty. I'll admit it's ballsy. But it's ballsy because Jon himself has no foundation. If he thinks he can win a rhetorical point, he'll slam it like Shaq, but if his rhetoric has flaws, he retreats to 'I'm just a comedian' land.
I mean for Chrissakes, he said "I'm not gonna be your monkey" [literally] and "I'm the world's monkey" [figuratively] in the same exchange.

jAZ
10-24-2004, 11:41 AM
I mean for Chrissakes, he said "I'm not gonna be your monkey" [literally] and "I'm the world's monkey" [figuratively] in the same exchange.
You'll admit that like any person (yourself included) Stewart can chose to be serious or chose to be silly whenever he wants. And that if he is motivated to go on Crossfire with a serious topic in mind to discuss... then there is nothing in the world wrong with him slaming them with the "I'm not gonna be your monkey" comment even though his job is to be "the world's monkey" every other day of the week.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 01:27 PM
You'll admit that like any person (yourself included) Stewart can chose to be serious or chose to be silly whenever he wants. And that if he is motivated to go on Crossfire with a serious topic in mind to discuss... then there is nothing in the world wrong with him slaming them with the "I'm not gonna be your monkey" comment even though his job is to be "the world's monkey" every other day of the week.
Ahhh, the "it's satire" excuse.

Deberg_1990
10-24-2004, 01:29 PM
Ahhh, the "it's satire" excuse.

True..he can always use that cop out excuse..but you had to admit...he brings up some good points. Something that not enough people ever care to talk about. The media hurts more than helps sometimes...

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 01:33 PM
True..he can always use that cop out excuse..but you had to admit...he brings up some good points. Something that not enough people ever care to talk about. The media hurts more than helps sometimes...
He is a comedian. He is a good comedian. Sure he can bring up a point, but so can a garbage collector.

Deberg_1990
10-24-2004, 01:37 PM
He is a comedian. He is a good comedian. Sure he can bring up a point, but so can a garbage collector.

Unfortunately, Garbage men dont get to go on nationally televised "Crossfire" to speak our mind...he was just speaking for the majority of all of us "regular" guys who would love to say that stuff to those overblown idiots. For the record im a conservative, but I wanted to punch that Tucker dude right in the mouth.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 01:42 PM
Unfortunately, Garbage men dont get to go on nationally televised "Crossfire" to speak our mind...he was just speaking for the majority of all of us "regular" guys who would love to say that stuff to those overblown idiots. For the record im a conservative, but I wanted to punch that Tucker dude right in the mouth.
Get a regular guy on then. A X-Generation ex-MTV jock is far from a "regular guy".

As I said, he is great at his job - I think he makes Kilborn look sad, but he is just a comedian.

memyselfI
10-24-2004, 02:07 PM
It's good to be in DC...hooray, hooray!!!


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101357&highlight=crossfire

jAZ
10-25-2004, 03:32 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/21/60minutes/main650690.shtml

Jon Stewart Roasts Real News

Oct. 24, 2004

(CBS) Regardless of who winds up on top in the upcoming election, one of the biggest winners so far has been Jon Stewart. He seems to be everywhere.

"The Daily Show" on Comedy Central has become must-see television for news junkies and politicians alike. And now, he's kicked up some dust by going after what Correspondent Steve Kroft calls "the shouting matches that pass themselves off as cable news."

In a boilerplate campaign of prefabricated speeches and talking points, Stewart is never on message. And, as Kroft reports, when things get too serious, Stewart is America's favorite political commentator.

What is Stewart's most-savored moment of the campaign so far?

"Just every moment with Dick Cheney has been my favorite. Here's what I wonder about Dick Cheney, and the reason that maybe they keep him only in loyalty oath audiences, is if he becomes angry, I do believe he turns into the Hulk. And so, they try and keep people from questioning him, because he'll just -- the shirt rips, and suddenly he has hair," says Stewart.

"So he's been my favorite, because he just goes out there to a room full of supporters and says, 'You know we're all going to die, right?' You're going to die unless I'm in charge.'"

What about Kerry?

"Kerry is - I think if he really, really focuses, he can defeat Nixon and I think have our troops out of Vietnam by '74," says Stewart. "He is what Kennedy has wrought, John Kennedy, not Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy has wrought a whole other thing that has to do with not wearing pants and running around Palm Beach."

"(Kerry is) Kennedy if you squint," adds Stewart. "You know, if you're not really paying that close attention. Sort of profiles in courage, profiles in might have been courage, profiles - you know what I'm saying?"

Is Stewart sort of an equal opportunity skewer?

"We don't consider ourselves equal opportunity anythings, because that's not - you know, that's the beauty of fake journalism. We don't have to - we travel in fake ethics," says Stewart.

Four nights a week, Stewart presides over a comedy show that masquerades as journalism, deconstructing the day's events and the pretenses of television news by repackaging reality as a parade of the absurd.

This summer, Stewart unleashed his team of crack reporters at the Democratic and Republican conventions. Stephen Colbert, Samantha Bee, Ed Helms and Rob Corddry are all talented young comics, and students of the tactics and postures of television news.

Take this interview at the Republican Convention in New York with a delegate from Montana:

Samantha Bee (with delegate): Have you had your picture take with a black person yet?

Delegate: I haven't, but I wouldn't mind doing that.

Bee: That's something you'd be willing to try?

Delegate: Why, certainly.

Bee: There's plenty of them (in New York). Do you have any in Montana?

Delegate: We don't. In fact, I guess our kids were pretty old before they saw one.

Then, from the podium of Madison Square Garden, there was Lynne Cheney's
introduction of her husband, the vice president.

Lynne Cheney: While most of the boys I knew saw the charm of driving back and forth, time and again, between the two A&W root beer stands in our small town, Dick did not. And, when practically everybody in Casper, Wyoming started doing the twist, I can tell you, Dick did not.

Stewart: And when all those young men were forced to go to Vietnam.

Lynne Cheney: Dick did not.

And, while we're on the subject of candidates' spouses, there was this from Stewart, right after John Kerry's victory in the Arizona primary: "Kerry did seem uncharacteristically demonstrative after his win. Here he is giving one of his volunteers a big hug. ... embracing fellow Sen. Ted Kennedy, and, of course, giving his wife Teresa ... ahh ... an accidental running into.

With material like that, "The Daily Show" ratings are up 22 percent over last year. They even scored a journalistic coup when Sen. John Edwards chose "The Daily Show" to make a major announcement.

Edwards: I am on your show to announce that I am a candidate for president of the United States.

Stewart: I guess I should probably tell you now that we're a fake show. So, I want you to know that this may not count.

Kroft told Stewart he saw Edwards declaring his candidacy on his show. "Very effective move, I thought," says Stewart. "Oh, wait, he's not the nominee. Oh, yeah, no, it was bad, bad. Yeah. He did it, because he made a promise to us that he would, and he kept it. I mean, he doesn't understand this system at all."

"I personally had forgotten that he told me that, because I'm so not listening to the guests when they're talking, usually. I'm usually thinking about - you know - I would love a cappuccino," says Stewart. "So yeah, it was fun for us. But we have a difficult time when we march up to that line of respectability."

"You looked a little uncomfortable," says Kroft.

"Well, I think access doesn't work for us," says Stewart. "And by the way, it hasn't been working for the regular media, either."

Stewart expects to vote for Kerry, but says that's not an endorsement. But just about every significant political figure has come on the show hoping to reach his predominately young audience. The one notable exception: President Bush.

"I don't think he'll come on," says Stewart. "[He's] busy. Running the country."

Would he like to have him on? "The president? Probably not. It'd be very
uncomfortable," says Stewart. "We like to have him on - it's not even so much the drug dogs, because we're pretty good about hiding everything. What I would like to say to him, I feel like I wouldn't be able to. Because he's the president. And the respect that I have for the office, and for the person holding it, whoever it is, would be confining."

But there are few constraints when it comes to crafting the comedy sketches, and almost everything is fair game.

Does he do a thing on Iraq? "Yes, sure," says Stewart. "We call it Mess-o-potamia. It's the, I think, defining issue of the day."

Is there anything that he feels he can't do?

"I can't sing. Never been able to sing. I can't do voices very well. Every impression I do sounds the same," says Stewart. "I can't dunk. Man, would I give anything to dunk. Just once."

"Material," says Kroft. "I was talking about material."

"I try not to do the unfunny stuff. That's the stuff I try not to do. But, if you've seen the show, you see - it gets in. Oh, it gets in," says Stewart.

Stewart and his "Daily Show" staff have moved from fake news into fake history with America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction. It's a twisted take on a high school civics book, with lessons on things like the five interesting moments in Senate history, and exercises like dressing the Supreme Court. That lesson got it banned from Wal-Mart.

Did he write it himself? "Here's the thing. I'm more of a delegator. I like to come in, have half a melon," says Stewart. "Sit down, go through the papers. Bring me the stuff, I'll edit."

"Do you get all the money, or do they get part of the money?" asks Kroft. "Well, they don't when you say the money. We work here on a barter system. So what they get are beads, which they can turn in for drinks. It's a lot like Club Med."

The book is currently No. 1 on the New York Times bestsellers list. And Stewart's star continues to rise ever higher, with two Emmy awards this year, even the cover of Rolling Stone.

"We're certainly getting more attention, that's for sure," says Stewart.

The Television Critics Association gave "The Daily Show" its award for best news and information program this year.

"We'd always sworn, we're taking 60 Minutes down. You, Frontline, all you guys. You're meat. I think in some respects, they were punking you, as opposed to praising us," says Stewart.

And he did some punking himself after 60 Minutes Wednesday
admitted it could not authenticate documents used in a report on Mr. Bush's National Guard service: "CBS issued a statement defending its reporting but vowing to, quote, 'make every effort to resolve the contradictions and answer the unanswered questions about the documents,'" said Stewart. "Among those unanswered questions: Why the f*** didn't you check them before you broadcast it?"

"I can't believe that the National Guard memo scandal is the only scandal in four years that has gotten elevated to the status of having a gate attached to it," says Stewart. "Rather-gate. For God's sake, we launched a war based on forged documents. That doesn't get a gate. How do you not get a gate outta that?"

"Dick Cheney's old company does business with Iran, in an offshore Cayman Islands group," adds Stewart. "No gate. Nothing."

While Stewart makes his living doing fake news on Comedy Central which is owned by the same company that owns CBS News - he has real opinions about real news, especially the 24-hour cable variety, which he thinks produces more heat than light.

"You know, it is what has become rewarded in political discourse - the extremity of viewpoint, because people like the conflict," says Stewart. "Conflict, baby. It sells. Crossfire. Hardball. 'Shut up! You shut up!'"

So when Stewart was invited to appear on CNN's "Crossfire" earlier this month, he decided to withhold his humor, express those opinions, and provoke a little conflict of his own.

Stewart: You have a responsibility to the public discourse, and you fail miserably.

Tucker Carlson: You need to get a job at a journalism school.

Stewart: You need to go to one. The thing that I want to say is, when you have people on for just knee-jerk, reactionary talk...

Carlson: Wait. I thought you were going to be funny. Come on. Be funny.

Stewart: No. No. I'm not going to be your monkey.

Some saw it as a sign that Stewart may be taking himself too seriously.

Others congratulated him for speaking his mind. In any event, when it comes to the media, no one can accuse him of playing favorites.

"Fox has the phrase, 'Fair and balanced.' And journalists wring their hands about that. How can they say fair and balanced, but they're not?" asks Stewart. "I watch it. It's not. It makes me so mad."

"Well, CNN says, 'You can depend on CNN.' Guess what? I watch CNN. No, you can't," adds Stewart. "I watch it all the time. So, your slogan's just as misleading as theirs."

"We don't have a slogan," says Kroft.

"You actually do," says Stewart. "May cause drowsiness."

BigRedChief
10-25-2004, 03:43 PM
I saaw the 60 mintues piece. The clip of him talking about the "group of folks" comment from Bush was hilarious...I liked him on sportcenter but I've never watched his show. Will have to check it out now,

KC Jones
10-25-2004, 03:55 PM
I enjoyed his humor...but his idea that "Crossfire" is somehow a "serious" news and political show is a joke. All they do is get idealogues from opposite sides of the isle to yell at each other, and talk over each other.

No compromise, no concessions, no consensus. It's ludicrous. Stewart expecting Crossfire to be "real," is as laughable as Crossfire expecting Stewart to give hardball questions to his guests.... :rolleyes:

I think that was a big part of the point Stewart was trying to make... They bill themselves as a debate show on a major news network. They claim to actually be tackling the issues. Instead it's like the debates on the DC forum.

jAZ
10-25-2004, 03:57 PM
I saaw the 60 mintues piece. The clip of him talking about the "group of folks" comment from Bush was hilarious...I liked him on sportcenter but I've never watched his show. Will have to check it out now,
I think you are remembering the previous Daily Show host Craig Kilborne who was a Sportscenter host before going to the Daily Show. He moved on to the Late Late Show on CBS when John Stewart took over the Daily Show.

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 04:02 PM
I think that was a big part of the point Stewart was trying to make... They bill themselves as a debate show on a major news network. They claim to actually be tackling the issues. It's like the debates on the DC forum.
Crossfire is what it is. They have no duty to something transcendant, no matter what Jon says. And they're not 'hurting America' any more than The Daily Show is. Jon calling Crossfire to task is the same as if Jerry Springer condemned Maury Povich's 'journalistic ethics.' Nothing more, nothing less.

NewChief
10-25-2004, 04:15 PM
Crossfire is what it is. They have no duty to something transcendant, no matter what Jon says. And they're not 'hurting America' any more than The Daily Show is. Jon calling Crossfire to task is the same as if Jerry Springer condemned Maury Povich's 'journalistic ethics.' Nothing more, nothing less.

Stop trying to intellectualize it. It's an emotional ownage. Maybe rhetorically he wasn't that impressive, but it's still great to watch. Seeing two pinheads get ambushed and put in their place by a brash, rude bastard is worthwhile, regardless of who has the intellectual high ground.

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 04:19 PM
Stop trying to intellectualize it. It's an emotional ownage. Maybe rhetorically he wasn't that impressive, but it's still great to watch. Seeing two pinheads get ambushed and put in their place by a brash, rude bastard is worthwhile, regardless of who has the intellectual high ground.
And you knock the intellect of those who support Bush? :p

Applauding Jon is the moral equivalent of seeing someone hide behind a tree and sucker punch passers-by, and saying "that guy kicks ASS!!!"

I've seen 'Maury.' I'm sure that Jerry Springer could pen an eloquent, devastating and utterly hilarious put down of Maury's methods. I'd laugh. Heck I laughed at Jon. And I said early on that it took balls to not back down. But Jerry's no hero, and neither is Jon. He saw an easy mark for controntation and launched.

It reminds me of the time they had that Hispanic RNC Chair guy, can't remember his name, but it was right after the RNC Convention. And he starts with the soft sell. "Howya Doin'? Havin' Fun? Seeing some shows."
But unbeknownst to the guest, Jon had his staff mine all the details of that Legislative Service that said Kerry was the most liberal and Edwards 4th most or whatever.
In the same jovial manner, Jon moves the discussion to Kerry and being a liberal. Predictably, the guy cited the legislative service findings. And Jon fugging POUNCED. "What votes? Over what period? Would it surprise you to know that . . . ?" Mysteriously, he chose that very moment to go from fuzzball to Hardball.
I love the humor of TDS, but Jon is a pussy. He'll only pick fights he's almost entirely assured he will win. He'll only pick them when he thinks the opposition is lulled into thinking the'yre on a comedy show. And he is ready as hell to retreat to the "I'm just a comedian" freezone if anyone bangs back.

NewChief
10-25-2004, 04:23 PM
And you knock the intellect of those who support Bush? :p

Applauding Jon is the moral equivalent of seeing someone hide behind a tree and sucker punch passers-by, and saying "that guy kicks ASS!!!"

Yeah yeah. You're just bitter because Stewart didn't endorse your boy. If he'd have you'd be singing his praises and talking about the fo sho asswhippin' he layed on that turncoat Tucker Carlson.

Hopefully these two posts don't move the thread into DC.

jAZ
10-25-2004, 04:26 PM
I think that was a big part of the point Stewart was trying to make... They bill themselves as a debate show on a major news network. They claim to actually be tackling the issues. Instead it's like the debates on the DC forum.
Yep, exactly.

These shows SHOULD be about serious debate. The Daily Show SHOULD NOT be about serious debate.

The fact that Republican pundits like the Tucker Carlson's of the world try to deflect this criticsm by pointing to the Daily Show's failure to take up the 'serious discussion' baton that Crossfire has dropped over the years, is EXACTLY what's wrong with the latest incarnation of a for-profit, corporate biased, (anti-tax, anti-regulation) Republican leaning news media.

The Fox (TV) channel's model of cheap, tabloid, mindless, overly simplified, infotainment (ie, "Cops", reality TV) "news" has become the model of choice for cable news channels.

It is a profitable model that attracts viewership and increases advertising revenues on CNN, MSNBC, and FNC... but that model generates those profits at the expense of sufficiently serving the role the news media MUST serve in order for Democracy to function.

The era of investigative journalism is all but dead. The tabliod stories dominate the news and the discussion of the horse race (who's leading in the polls today) is a cheap and easy way to fill an hour a day on an all news channel. Investigation into and honest discussion of actual underlying issues in society or a campaign is expensive and likely to generate less advertising revene. That's a deadly combination for a for-profit news network.

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 04:33 PM
Yeah yeah. You're just bitter because Stewart didn't endorse your boy. If he'd have you'd be singing his praises and talking about the fo sho asswhippin' he layed on that turncoat Tucker Carlson.

Hopefully these two posts don't move the thread into DC.
If you knew anything about me, you'd know I admire Tucker for enouncing HIS views, as opposed to citing a party line.
And you'd know that it has NOTHING to do with Bush/Kerry. I've watched TDS since the day it first aired, right up through last Thursday. I plan to watch it tonight.
It's about people applauding a guy for having the balls to be an asshole, SIMPLY because they hate the people he's an asshole to.

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 04:38 PM
These shows SHOULD be about serious debate. The Daily Show SHOULD NOT be about serious debate.
Why?
Who are you to mandate the mission of Crossfire?
And why do you turn a hypocritically blind eye to the fact that TDS IS A NEWS SOURCE for an ever growing segment?
You do realize that TDS and Dr. Phil are the ONLY media interviews Kerry has granted of late? If you wanted a one-on-one of THE Dem candidate, those were your choices. And Jon's position was "I reserve the right to ambush whomever the notion takes me, but Kerry, I'll FAWN over Kerry."

Rausch
10-25-2004, 05:20 PM
It's about people applauding a guy for having the balls to be an asshole, SIMPLY because they hate the people he's an asshole to.

Well...yeah.

KC Jones
10-25-2004, 05:28 PM
Why?
Who are you to mandate the mission of Crossfire?
And why do you turn a hypocritically blind eye to the fact that TDS IS A NEWS SOURCE for an ever growing segment?
You do realize that TDS and Dr. Phil are the ONLY media interviews Kerry has granted of late? If you wanted a one-on-one of THE Dem candidate, those were your choices. And Jon's position was "I reserve the right to ambush whomever the notion takes me, but Kerry, I'll FAWN over Kerry."

I thought you just said it's not about Bush/Kerry.

TDS is not billing itself as a news source on a network billing itself as a news network. Kudos to Stewart for sticking to his guns on their show. I think it's pretty telling they had that graphic ready with the questions Stewart had asked Kerry. Tucker had prepared to ambush him and came home with an ass whoppin instead. Tough titties.

I understand your point that you think it hypocritical for a comedian to take another entertainers program to task, but I see a real difference between what Crossfire and CNN puport themselves to be and what Comedy Central/ TDS do. The messenger may have been flawed or tainted if you will, but not the message.

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 05:32 PM
I thought you just said it's not about Bush/Kerry.
Don't be dense. It's not about if Jon was for Bush or Kerry. It's about what 'shows' have or do not have what 'responsibilities.'
Bush and/or Kerry only come into it because they are the issues of the day in the larger framework of the evolving world of journo-info-tainment.
TDS is not billing itself as a news source on a network billing itself as a news network.
And that would be just fine if;
1) the audience didn't view them as a news source, and
2) they didn't pretend to be a news source when the mood strikes.

Thig Lyfe
10-25-2004, 06:20 PM
LOL! I'd heard about it, and finally seeing it I find that it's HILARIUM and a half!

KCWolfman
10-25-2004, 06:47 PM
I thought you just said it's not about Bush/Kerry.

TDS is not billing itself as a news source on a network billing itself as a news network. Kudos to Stewart for sticking to his guns on their show. I think it's pretty telling they had that graphic ready with the questions Stewart had asked Kerry. Tucker had prepared to ambush him and came home with an ass whoppin instead. Tough titties.

I understand your point that you think it hypocritical for a comedian to take another entertainers program to task, but I see a real difference between what Crossfire and CNN puport themselves to be and what Comedy Central/ TDS do. The messenger may have been flawed or tainted if you will, but not the message.
I disagree.

On his own forum, he is the ruler, and rightfully so. There is no farsical show better on television to date. However, when he "takes them to task" he is no better than Franken with his "this is real" and "this is satire". You are what you are, playing both sides does not make you stronger on either end.

KC Jones
10-25-2004, 08:55 PM
Don't be dense.

I'm being dense because I don't understand that TDS is a parody of news programs running on comedy central whereas xfire purports itself to be "tackling the issues" on a news network? You see no difference between being a parody of news programs and being a news program?

That's really quite amazing to me. You're being silly.

Mr Grimm
10-25-2004, 09:00 PM
The only thing better than him ripping into crossfire, was Triumph after the last debate!

"Have a safe trip back to Stepford!"

Baby Lee
10-25-2004, 09:32 PM
I'm being dense because I don't understand that TDS is a parody of news programs running on comedy central whereas xfire purports itself to be "tackling the issues" on a news network? You see no difference between being a parody of news programs and being a news program?

That's really quite amazing to me. You're being silly.
1. The 'dense' admonition referred solely to you confusing my initial remark about my stance on Jon's Crossfire performance not being about Bush/Kerry as stating that Bush/Kerry is also irrelevant when discussing the roles Crossfire and TDS repectively play in the media market.
2. TDS claims to be a parody. But the audience treats it as news, and TDS is aware of this and uses it to it's advantage when it sees an opportunity.
3. Crossfire is not a news program and I've never heard them claim to be. It is a political briefing and pundit confrontation show. The entertainment value of the show is watching spinners extemporize. The journalistic value is nil.

KC Jones
10-26-2004, 07:57 AM
1. The 'dense' admonition referred solely to you confusing my initial remark about my stance on Jon's Crossfire performance not being about Bush/Kerry as stating that Bush/Kerry is also irrelevant when discussing the roles Crossfire and TDS repectively play in the media market.

No, it was an insult you levied at me likely because you contradicted yourself and didn't like having it brought to your attention.

2. TDS claims to be a parody. But the audience treats it as news, and TDS is aware of this and uses it to it's advantage when it sees an opportunity.

This is a ridiculous fabrication, please prove that the audience uses TDS as a news source or stop making it.

3. Crossfire is not a news program and I've never heard them claim to be. It is a political briefing and pundit confrontation show. The entertainment value of the show is watching spinners extemporize. The journalistic value is nil.

Yes, crossfire is not a news program, but it does claim to tackle the issues and it does run on a news network. I agree with you that the jounalistic value is nil. I guess the question is whether they have any responsibility to provide some journalistic integrity given that they claim to be a debate show tackling the issues and are running on a news network. It's pretty obvious you and I would disagree on that point. So were pretty much just left with an insult and a fabrication. Good job :thumb:

memyselfI
10-26-2004, 08:25 AM
I'm being dense because I don't understand that TDS is a parody of news programs running on comedy central whereas xfire purports itself to be "tackling the issues" on a news network? You see no difference between being a parody of news programs and being a news program?

That's really quite amazing to me. You're being silly.

Oh give yourself a break...

if you haven't been a Faux News regular you wouldn't know that TDS is also a parody.
:p

Baby Lee
10-26-2004, 08:34 AM
No, it was an insult you levied at me likely because you contradicted yourself and didn't like having it brought to your attention.
I am going to make this as simple and clear as I can.
Newchiefs said I was only pissed at Jon's tirade because he endorsed Kerry instead of Bush.
I said that my critique of Jon's tirade had nothing to do with whether he endorsed Kerry or Bush.
I later pointed out that if Jon can get a Kerry interview, then he is a news source and has some duty.
That is an altogether different issue than whether Jon endorsed one side or the other, and whether I'm pissed about the endorsement.
If you have any evidence that I contradicted my original point, that my critique of Jon had nothing to do with who he was endorsing, please lay it out.
This is a ridiculous fabrication, please prove that the audience uses TDS as a news source or stop making it.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/02/apontv.stewarts.stature.ap/
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:53371
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021105-034411-8008r
http://www.dearjonstewart.com/

NewChief
10-26-2004, 08:52 AM
I am going to make this as simple and clear as I can.
Newchiefs said I was only pissed at Jon's tirade because he endorsed Kerry instead of Bush.


Apologies, for derailing this thing. I, honestly, meant my statement as tongue in cheek or something. I didn't mean for it to be the basis for an argument. Anyway, here's some more interesting stuff on the whole Stewart backlash. BL definitely isn't alone in his condemnation. Journalists, from both sides of the spectrum, are going after Stewart. They're circling the wagons:

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html

Inevitable Jon Stewart backlash



It's eight days till the election and the media has whipped itself into such a frenzy of cannibalistic blood lust that we have completely reversed the effects of our Paxil prescriptions and are charging blindly after anyone we can sink our teeth into.

Case in point: Jon Stewart.

We have had weeks of unrelenting, masturbatory press congratulating "Daily Show" host Jon Stewart for being the most trusted man in journalism. He's been deified in Newsweek, canonized in Rolling Stone, and his new volume, "America: The Book," is at the top of bestseller lists. Journalists and wisecracking couch-monkeys alike fantasize that he is just the kind of dry, observant political commentator they would be if they were good-looking and had their own show. By early October, the story that Jon Stewart was Aristophanes reborn -- by way of Edward R. Murrow's gene pool -- was about as revelatory as the news that bloggers were a major journalistic force on the election landscape.

But the moody chasm between early October and late October is vast. And in late October, the media is exhausted, frustrated, scared and eager to lash out. Conveniently, they also happen to be shocked, shocked by Stewart's dead-serious scolding of "Crossfire" hosts Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala last Friday. And so they have turned.

"Has Jon Stewart jumped the shark?" Tina Brown asked on last night's episode of "Topic A." Brown's plummy query sounded downright cheerful, though that might have been her relief at having finished an interview with anal sex memoirist Toni Bentley, which Brown had concluded by darkly predicting that Bentley would "meet some very interesting new friends after writing this book." Brown was practically licking her lips as she played a clip of Stewart on "Crossfire" and asked her panel of media experts, "Is he taking himself a bit too seriously?"

New York Times reporter David Carr thrashed Stewart in response, cracking that he would have been better dressed for his "Crossfire" appearance had he shown up in a nun's habit. "His decision to go church lady start to finish, absent any sort of levity and humor ... was a little hard to figure out and probably not good in the end for his own personal franchise," said Carr.

A Sunday New York Times "Week in Review" story by Damien Cave led with the question, "Is Jon Stewart being coy?" and quoted the Boston Pheonix's Dan Kennedy, a Stewart fan who has criticized the "Crossfire" appearance. On Oct. 19, Kennedy wrote that Stewart "came off as something of a bully and a bore" as well as "slippery and disingenuous." Kennedy also argued that in the confrontation, "Stewart became what he criticized."

In Saturday's Washington Post, Howard Kurtz quoted Wonkette – aka Ana Marie Cox -- saying that Stewart had painted a target on his own chest, and that "The Jon Stewart backlash should start right about now." "To say his is just a comedy show is a cop-out in a way," Cox told Kurtz. "He's gotten so much power."

But in case you weren't sure that Cox's predicted backlash was upon us as of this weekend, we woke up this morning to a damning piece in the new issue of New York magazine. "The notion of Stewart as the Joker Who Speaks Truth to Power has now gotten away from the joker himself. His cult success on Comedy Central has become bloated and excessively esteemed," wrote Ken Tucker, going on to argue that Stewart's postmortem rehash of the "Crossfire" fight on his own show was just "nyah-nyah, can't catch-me baiting." Tucker writes that Stewart "tries so hard to be the anti-anchorman that he ends up being a disdainfully mediocre one, tossing verbal Twinkies and Ho Hos at everyone from John Kerry to Ralph Reed, ending up with sugary, jittery segments." Tucker also writes that Stewart "has developed this bad habit of wanting it both ways: Hey, I just tell jokes! and You can't handle the truth!"

Everyone has a point, and it seems that everyone -- including War Room -- has a blog, or a column or a guest spot on a talk show.

But maybe we should all just ratchet back the blood lust, rechannel the aggression. I strongly doubt that Stewart -- a man whose show I do not regularly watch because I do not have real cable -- ever asked to become the biggest story of this election season. He has seemed fairly content to host his show, publish books and nurture a comparatively literate fan base by squeezing this blood-chilling political climate for all the laughs the rest of us are too ethically bound to milk.

It's been his fans -- or at least his ideological fellow travelers, the culturally privileged and socially alienated media -- who have hoisted him into the stratosphere of political commentary, where he apparently now makes a fat, juicy goose at which to aim our shotguns. New York's Tucker admits to agreeing with Stewart's politics; the Pheonix's Kennedy to being a devoted fan. And yet they just can't help themselves.

None of us can. We are all jittery and bloated ourselves, overfed on coverage, statistics, polls, trends, heroes, villains, conspiracies, lies and anger. We have overfeasted on our own cleverness, on our own ability to gather information and process it instantly. We are sick of ourselves and sick with worry about what will happen next week. We can barely stomach the idea of the eight more days -- or God knows how long -- to come before we know who the next president will be. And so, wandering aimlessly, crazily looking for any piece of fresh meat to rip from the bone, the addled, self-loathing media have caught our own tail and are dumbly gnawing on it.

So let's just breathe in and breathe out. Drink a cool glass of water and maybe throw back a stiff drink. Head home early and get a good night's sleep. We are a week away from this thing. Jon Stewart is no one's enemy any more than he was anyone's savior: He is a funny guy with a funny show who happens to be a smart guy who had a smart point to make on a not-funny show. I think that most politically interested people -- including that "dick" Tucker Carlson, who has admitted as much -- have enjoyed a few belly laughs thanks to Jon Stewart. That doesn't make him Walter Cronkite; but it doesn't make him Jayson Blair either.

So let's chill out a bit before we condemn our only decent jester to death.

-- Rebecca Traister

KC Jones
10-26-2004, 08:56 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/02/apontv.stewarts.stature.ap/
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:53371
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021105-034411-8008r
http://www.dearjonstewart.com/

Oh, I see. Because 1/5th of 18-29 year olds listed TDS among their news sources for "campaign news", you get to extrapolate that out to mean their entire audience (or presumably a majority) uses TDS as a news source.

I'll give you some credit though since you are an admitted member of their audience and so you must also use it as a news source. It must be very frustrating for you when their investigative reporters ask silly questions or cover bizarre topics.

Interestingly enough a poll found TDS viewers to be better educated than average and better informed about political topics than average. Now this could mean many things:

1) It could be damning evidence of the failure of our education system as all of these relatively well educated people don't understand the difference between a news program and a parody of a news program.

2) It could mean that the Daily Show is actually a news source as you propose and actually a much better one than newspapers and or the news networks.

3) It could mean that most of their audience gets their news elsewhere but enjoys a good parody of television news programs - especially those of the news magazine variety.

:hmmm:

Baby Lee
10-26-2004, 09:07 AM
Oh, I see. Because 1/5th of 18-29 year olds listed TDS among their news sources for "campaign news", you get to extrapolate that out to mean their entire audience (or presumably a majority) uses TDS as a news source.
You got me, when I said the audience viewed it as news, I didn't make clear that I wasn't referring to EACH and EVERY single viewer. The point is, those numbers are nearly on par with the number of people who view the network news and newspapers of record, which pretty much negates the premise that everyone views TDS as a comedy show and nothing more.

I'll give you some credit though since you are an admitted member of their audience and so you must also use it as a news source. It must be very frustrating for you when their investigative reporters ask silly questions or cover bizarre topics.
I watch the show, usually already aware of the news they are reporting, and enjoy their satirization and spinning of it. In that sense, I watch it for much the same reason I watch Crossfire.

Interestingly enough a poll found TDS viewers to be better educated than average and better informed about political topics than average.
Thank you. ;)

Now this could mean many things:

1) It could be damning evidence of the failure of our education system as all of these relatively well educated people don't understand the difference between a news program and a parody of a news program.

2) It could mean that the Daily Show is actually a news source as you propose and actually a much better one than newspapers and or the news networks.

3) It could mean that most of their audience gets their news elsewhere but enjoys a good parody of television news programs - especially those of the news magazine variety.

:hmmm:
Don't disagree with any of those possibilities. But my point is that Jon wants to be news when he thinks he can make a difference, and wants to be comedy when his takes don't stand up to scrutiny.

Tucker summed it up well

Tucker also writes that Stewart "has developed this bad habit of wanting it both ways: Hey, I just tell jokes! and You can't handle the truth!"

Rausch
10-26-2004, 09:09 AM
I am going to make this as simple and clear as I can.
Newchiefs said I was only pissed at Jon's tirade because he endorsed Kerry instead of Bush.
I said that my critique of Jon's tirade had nothing to do with whether he endorsed Kerry or Bush.
I later pointed out that if Jon can get a Kerry interview, then he is a news

There is the flaw in your logic. His intent is not to provide factual information, only to entertain. His questions are to steer the conversation towards comedy or funny responses.

Now, is it informative to find out a specific person's sense of humor? Sure, but that's pretty much all the info it provides, and by trying to extrapolate any more than that from a TDS segment is silly...

Kylo Ren
10-26-2004, 09:12 AM
Why is this thread not in the DC forum?

Baby Lee
10-26-2004, 09:12 AM
There is the flaw in your logic. His intent is not to provide factual information, only to entertain. His questions are to steer the conversation towards comedy or funny responses.

Now, is it informative to find out a specific person's sense of humor? Sure, but that's pretty much all the info it provides, and by trying to extrapolate any more than that from a TDS segment is silly...
I would agree, if that were true. ;)

Ebolapox
10-26-2004, 09:28 AM
who's john stewart??

I know of a jon stewart who hosts a faux news show on comedy central, and a former actor/comedian who had a secondary role in the movie 'big daddy' with adam sandler--

-EB-0

Baby Lee
11-04-2004, 03:30 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/249436p-213612c.html

President Bush managed to wipe the smirk off Jon Stewart's face - at least for one night.
Having voted for Sen. John Kerry, America's most-trusted name in fake news couldn't conceal his disappointment Tuesday night when he arrived at Comedy Central's "Indecision 2004" party at The Park.

Despite the twinkling donkey-and-elephant-shaped disco balls, "spin-control" roulette wheels with Bush and Kerry's faces, and adoring girls in torn-up "Daily Show" T-shirts, the comic stayed only for a few minutes at the party.

"He's in a really bad mood," one "Daily Show" correspondent told a young staffer.

"Why?" asked the dim minion.

The correspondent pointed to a TV screen with the election returns.
To paraphrase from Artie Lange "My monkey show didn't change the world WAH-WAHHHH!!!!"