Salary negotiations with a "professional" recruiter.

[jAZ]

So it appears that I have a new job offer on the table (so to speak). I have interviewed twice for a new position and I believe that I am the only person they are considering and everything looks great.

I recieved an email this week from the owner of the company with the following quote:

"I haven't asked yet but what kind of offer are you looking for?
Let me know your expectations and then give me a few days and Ill be back to you soon."

I would rather that he be the first to offer a salary figure, and I respond to it. But he's a professional in this field, so he seems intent on not being the first to throw out a number.

How would you guys respond to this?

If I throw out the number I have in my head (~ my current salary + 12%), I would be ensuring that would be the MAXIMUM I could get.

I could throw out an even greater number but without any sense of his ballpark, I could price myself entirely out of the position.

Anyone have any good ideas?

[Jenson71]

$1 million, or I will burn the building down.

[Hydrae]

Go for more than you want and let them talk you down. Maybe start at current + 20%. Then when they counter offer at +15%, you win!

BTW, good luck and congrats on the opportunity!

[Rain Man]

I think everyone so far has offered sound advice, but hydrae's may be the best.

[mizzou4scott]

I am going thru this same thing right now. I upped what I get now by 20% and took my chances. I hated to price myself out of the job, but wanted to make it high enough where there would be some wiggle room.

[Jenson71]

How involved could salary negotions for a McDonald's crew chief really be?

ROFL ROFL

[StcChief]

Do you know what your worth in Tucson. Phoenix market?
Do you know how the owner values the position?

Tough to negotiate with unknowns.

Recruiter's Take on your 1st year salary typical 25%.
Owner may low ball to keep that fee down,
Recruiter might suggest a low number to close the deal.

[Saulbadguy]

Shoot high, and see if they flinch.

[jAZ]

How involved could salary negotiations for a McDonald's crew chief really be?
"Do I have to wear the hat all day?"

[KCWolfman]

I am going thru this same thing right now. I upped what I get now by 20% and took my chances. I hated to price myself out of the job, but wanted to make it high enough where there would be some wiggle room.
Success to me, then.

I was just offered a position with my old company and will be starting DEC 1 with them at 27% more than I currently earn. I will also be "groomed" for my old boss' position when he retires next year.

Goodbye Part time job, hello free time.

Who said this country is screwed on the job market?

[jAZ]

I am going thru this same thing right now. I upped what I get now by 20% and took my chances. I hated to price myself out of the job, but wanted to make it high enough where there would be some wiggle room.
Did it work?

[Brando]

Sit down and figure out what is really attractive you about this job. I would then fashion a response that goes something like this, "I am very excited about the chance to work for Wal Mart as a greeter. I enjoy connecting with people and assisting them. I am also exited to here that there is room for advancement and excellent benefits. At this time I am open to your best offer."
That way you don't price yourself out of the job or low-ball yourself below what they may be willing to offer.

[Skip Towne]

Maybe one of your former college instructors would have an idea of what the pay for the position should be.

[Donger]

Give them a high-low range, with the low being something you'd be happy with.

They'll go right down the middle.

[mizzou4scott]

Did it work?

Don't know yet. Hope to hear something this afternoon.

[jAZ]

Don't know yet. Hope to hear something this afternoon.
Well, best of luck!

[Brando]

Sit down and figure out what is really attractive you about this job. I would then fashion a response that goes something like this, "I am very excited about the chance to work for Wal Mart as a greeter. I enjoy connecting with people and assisting them. I am also exited to here that there is room for advancement and excellent benefits. At this time I am open to your best offer."
That way you don't price yourself out of the job or low-ball yourself below what they may be willing to offer.

I work with a former recruiter that preaches this to anyone that is in your position. He says that it really grabs the companies attention and usually produces the result of getting the best offer they are willing to make for the position. It can also put you above others by making it seem like you are focused and not just after the position for the money.

[vailpass]

Salary negotiation is a one-time deal; once you lock in you can never go back. Here are some basics:
Ask him whether this position is graded. If he says 'yes' ask him what the grade level is; then ask him what the salary range is for that grade. You now have a working range from which to begin. Locate your salary requirement somewhere in the upper 75th percentile and be prepared to justify if asked (they usually don't).

If he tells you they don't grade their positions ask him if they have established a flat salary range. If he says yes ask for that range and proceed as above.

If he says they have neither grade nor range ask him what range he feels would be appropriate for someone who was an absolute top performer in the position (implying, of course, that you are a top performer).

The common theme here is to get them to give you a number first. Whether they come in 25% below your current salary or 50% above don't let 'em know; it's perfectly acceptable to ask for 24 hours to review the terms.

Good luck, don't sweat it, and remember that if you are good enough to get this offer you are good enough to get others so don't be rattled.

[mizzou4scott]

Salary negotiation is a one-time deal; once you lock in you can never go back. Here are some basics:
Ask him whether this position is graded. If he says 'yes' ask him what the grade level is; then ask him what the salary range is for that grade. You now have a working range from which to begin. Locate your salary requirement somewhere in the upper 75th percentile and be prepared to justify if asked (they usually don't).

If he tells you they don't grade their positions ask him if they have established a flat salary range. If he says yes ask for that range and proceed as above.

If he says they have neither grade nor range ask him what range he feels would be appropriate for someone who was an absolute top performer in the position (implying, of course, that you are a top performer).

The common theme here is to get them to give you a number first. Whether they come in 25% below your current salary or 50% above don't let 'em know; it's perfectly acceptable to ask for 24 hours to review the terms.

Good luck, don't sweat it, and remember that if you are good enough to get this offer you are good enough to get others so don't be rattled.


Great Advice!

[mizzou4scott]

Let me ask you all this....

I had my final interview yesterday and afterwards I sent them an email thanking them for there time. We both seemed to be very interested in each other. I got a reply back from one of the interviewees that said, "Thanks Scott, I feel you would make a great addition to the team." If I don't hear anything back by 4:30 should I call them again? There was no real timetable set up, but they said that they wanted to have the position filled 30 days ago.

[Donger]

Let me ask you all this....

I had my final interview yesterday and afterwards I sent them an email thanking them for there time. We both seemed to be very interested in each other. I got a reply back from one of the interviewees that said, "Thanks Scott, I feel you would make a great addition to the team." If I don't hear anything back by 4:30 should I call them again? There was no real timetable set up, but they said that they wanted to have the position filled 30 days ago.

No. Be patient.

I'd give them until Friday.

[JimNasium]

Let me ask you all this....

I had my final interview yesterday and afterwards I sent them an email thanking them for there time. We both seemed to be very interested in each other. I got a reply back from one of the interviewees that said, "Thanks Scott, I feel you would make a great addition to the team." If I don't hear anything back by 4:30 should I call them again? There was no real timetable set up, but they said that they wanted to have the position filled 30 days ago.
I you really thanked them for there time I doubt if you will be hearing back from them at all.

[vailpass]

Let me ask you all this....

I had my final interview yesterday and afterwards I sent them an email thanking them for there time. We both seemed to be very interested in each other. I got a reply back from one of the interviewees that said, "Thanks Scott, I feel you would make a great addition to the team." If I don't hear anything back by 4:30 should I call them again? There was no real timetable set up, but they said that they wanted to have the position filled 30 days ago.


IMO you expressed your interest and asked for the job by sending the e-mail today. There are some behind-the-scenes pieces that need to be completed before they can offer you a position (req approval, salary compa study, etc.) so even though it may seem to you nothing is happening things are moving on their end.
Mid morning tomorrow would seem to be a better time to check call and ask if they can give you an indication as to when you can expect feedback.
There is a fine line between showing appropriate interest and giving off unintended signs of desperation. Think of it as allowing the apprpriate space before calling a girl who gave you her number last night.

[Calcountry]

So it appears that I have a new job offer on the table (so to speak). I have interviewed twice for a new position and I believe that I am the only person they are considering and everything looks great.

I recieved an email this week from the owner of the company with the following quote:



I would rather that he be the first to offer a salary figure, and I respond to it. But he's a professional in this field, so he seems intent on not being the first to throw out a number.

How would you guys respond to this?

If I throw out the number I have in my head (~ my current salary + 12%), I would be ensuring that would be the MAXIMUM I could get.

I could throw out an even greater number but without any sense of his ballpark, I could price myself entirely out of the position.

Anyone have any good ideas?
As best as possible, ascertain what a comparable position is being paid elsewhere. Then adjust your number slightly depending on if the median price of a home is apeshit or not in the area the job is.

Then throw a relatively "narrow" ballpark figure his way. like low 50's, or mid to high 50's.

Couch it based on "a guy with my skills is worth such and such." You should know how much you are worth. If you ARE worht that much, you will get it.

Good luck. Disclaimer: I am not to be held responsible if you take any or none of my advice.

WTF would I know, I work for myself. lmaol.

Let us know how it turns out buddy.

P.S.

Bush gets the credit for that new job???? :p

[jAZ]

I you really thanked them for there time I doubt if you will be hearing back from them at all.
They're going to have to work on their screening techniques if mizzou4scott got through without knowing the difference between there and their.

:p

[jAZ]

P.S.

Bush gets the credit for that new job???? :p
Actully, given that it's working for a ".com", I think the credit goes to Clinton and Gore.

;)

[jAZ]

Thanks for all of the input folks!

I replied with the following:
(Owner),

While I am somewhat flexible, I would need to replace my current compensation. That would require (current salary + 20%). But like I said, I am flexible.

I looked up a seemingly similar position online (SalaryExpert.com), and the Tucson average was about $1,000 higher (total compensation) than what I asked for.

That gave me enough confidence to ask for a specific $$-figure, knowing that I could point to that site if his offer was dramatically different.

[Calcountry]

Thanks for all of the input folks!

I replied with the following:


I looked up a seemingly similar position online (SalaryExpert.com), and the Tucson average was about $1,000 higher (total compensation) than what I asked for.

That gave me enough confidence to ask for a specific $$-figure, knowing that I could point to that site if his offer was dramatically different.
I would just be confident, that if he is dicking you arround, that you will get the job with his competition, you ARE worth it. You have to believe in the product you are selling. In this case, it is you. Best of luck man.

[Braincase]

And you always get to pick your own assistant.

[jAZ]

I can say we all thought you were great and would be a strong asset for the (company) team!

Funding is a different matter. No one hear makes $(my salary). I am trying to figure out how to work it. I wasn't expecting that much to be honest. I don't like to, but I guess I should have asked sooner.

Anyway, let me keep turning it. Ill be back to you soon. Thanks for your
continued interest.

My response:

(Owner),

I imagined such, and I feel that it is important to let you know that (Company)'s entrepreneurial spirit and the opportunity to make a big impact are exciting to me personally and professionally. And while money is a consideration for me, it is not the *only* consideration... nor should it be. As such, I am willing to be flexible when it comes to salary, and I am open to your best offer.

[jAZ]

I'd appreciate any comments on my response. I haven't hit send yet. But I'm about to.

[Boozer]

I'd appreciate any comments on my response. I haven't hit send yet. But I'm about to.

Make sure to point out that he can't spell. Hiring-type critters love to have their mistakes pointed out.

[jAZ]

Make sure to point out that he can't spell. Hiring-type critters love to have their mistakes pointed out.
Would it be a bad move to correct his spelling in text of the email? Not mention it just correct it?

:p

[htismaqe]

Always start high, and I mean like 30-35% increase high...

[Logical]

I am going thru this same thing right now. I upped what I get now by 20% and took my chances. I hated to price myself out of the job, but wanted to make it high enough where there would be some wiggle room.

An extra $1 an hour was pretty steep.

[Jenson71]

Make sure to point out that he can't spell. Hiring-type critters love to have their mistakes pointed out.

ROFL

[Brando]

Let us know how this turns out!

[OmahaChief]

Jaz-

I just got a new job myself and went through a similar proceedings. I was shot down for the salary I wanted but I countered with a similar offer and asked them to offer me a signing bonus. By giving the bonus it keeps your base down longer term for the company and might increase your chances.

I got the job a 20% raise and a high 4 figure signing bonus. Not bad when you figure the bonus over a number of years it matches what I wanted in base.

[Phobia]

If I understood your header correctly, you're discussing salary with your recruiter....

It is in a recruiter's best interest to get you the highest salary possible. Obviously.

I wouldn't send that email yet. He's throwing you a bluff. Don't back down (yet) and see if he counters.

[Mr. Laz]

Give them a high-low range, with the low being something you'd be happy with.

They'll go right down the middle.\

do NOT do this


they will price it real close to the low end if not at the very bottom of the list and then you will have to say you've changed you mind or will have to accept the lowest offer.


i would really try and price the job before putting any kind of numbers out there. Being the first to put numbers on the table puts you at an immediate disadvantage. Try and find out what other people are making for a similiar job that they are offering and then bump that by 15-20%

As long as you are in the ballpark, they won't just walk away.


the best thing to do is to get them to make an offer


If they approached you, then they are prepared to make an offer... this is just a negotiational ploy.

[Mr. Laz]

If I understood your header correctly, you're discussing salary with your recruiter....

It is in a recruiter's best interest to get you the highest salary possible. Obviously.

I wouldn't send that email yet. He's throwing you a bluff. Don't back down (yet) and see if he counters.

:hmmm:


I read it the the other way ... seems like he was approached by a headhunter. Someone has come from another company to "steal" him away from his current employer.

but that could be just my way of thinking. :)

[Phobia]

but that could be just my way of thinking. :)

Nah - I'm probably wrong. I'm nearly always wrong.

[beavis]

I wouldn't accept anything less than free cafe latte's for life.

[Mojo Rising]

If the company has an HR dept that is on the ball they should have the salary ranges for their particuliar job market. They will usually not hire you in the top 70+% because you would have no room to grow in the position. Unless you were grossly underpaid in your old position and the job is similiar a 30% increase would be a lofty goal.

[Mr. Kotter]

Good luck, Justin. :thumb:

It does my heart good to see a liberal actually trying to get a job... ;)

[ChiTown]

Don't hit send until you know the market value for your services. Certainly, you have a feel for it, and certainly, you know what you want. Put all the data together and figure out what it tells you.

My general rules of thumb........

Never leave a job unless it's
a.) 20% higher in salary than the current employer, and/or
b.) offers ownership (stock incentives) that are liquid and lucrative enough to capture the value after year 1, and/or
c.) Has a great incentive compensation program (reasonable and able to make your salary back in bonus) and/or
d.) has an outstanding work environment and management team

[Mr. Kotter]

Good luck, Justin. :thumb:

It does my heart good to see a liberal actually trying to get a job... ;)

So, what did you decide to do Justin?

[jAZ]

Nah - I'm probably wrong. I'm nearly always wrong.
Technically you are both wrong. I'm not using a recruiter for myself, and this recruiter isn't a 3rd party is Laz might have been thinking.

My prospective employer owns 2 companies. The first is a recruiting firm. The second is an HR-related dot-com. He is a career technical/management recruiter, so I'm "going up against" a pro-negotiator in that respect.

I am negotiating with him regarding a lead marketing position in his 2nd company.

[HC_Chief]

www.salary.com

Find the median for your field in your geographic region, then add 5+- %

[jAZ]

Good luck, Justin. :thumb:

It does my heart good to see a liberal actually trying to get a job... ;)
You better take your heart pills, because I am also in the process of buying another business as well.

;)

[jAZ]

So, what did you decide to do Justin?
I sent the response...

(Owner),

I imagined such, and I feel that it is important to let you know that (Company)'s entrepreneurial spirit and the opportunity to make a big impact are exciting to me personally and professionally. And while money is a consideration for me, it is not the *only* consideration... nor should it be. As such, I am willing to be flexible when it comes to salary, and I am open to your best offer.

I think it will be a couple more days before I hear back. But I'm optimistic.

[jAZ]

www.salary.com

Find the median for your field in your geographic region, then add 5+- %
I looked at a similar site, and my salary request was about $1000 lower than their average for a similar position. His job title is non-standard, the position has a range of responsibilities, it is a small company, and I have limited experience in the exact role... so in my estimation asking for the industry average is justifiable but he may be justified in paying less at this point.

We shall see... I'm expecting that I will get an offer of something similar to my current salary but with bonuses give me the opportunity to push my compensation close to my asking price.

If that happens, I'll take the job.

[Rain Man]

Just FYI, some of those salary sites are WAY off. I've seen some that list salaries for my profession that are 100 percent too high.

[Skip Towne]

You better take your heart pills, because I am also in the process of buying another business as well.

;)
I wouldn't bother with all that crap. Just go apply for welfare.

[HC_Chief]

Just FYI, some of those salary sites are WAY off. I've seen some that list salaries for my profession that are 100 percent too high.

Hmm, probably depends on your line of work. I know it's fairly accurate for mine: IT (DBA)

[jAZ]

Just FYI, some of those salary sites are WAY off. I've seen some that list salaries for my profession that are 100 percent too high.
They need to go with the Kelly Blue Book model of having a retail price and a trade-in price.

[jAZ]

I wouldn't bother with all that crap. Just go apply for welfare.
If only Clinton hadn't slashed the program, darn it!

;)

[Rain Man]

Hmm, probably depends on your line of work. I know it's fairly accurate for mine: IT (DBA)

Yeah, probably. Some jobs may have more defined levels of experience or responsibility, too.

I've only had one employee bring me some stats from one of those sites and ask for a raise. She picked one that had such a ludicrous figure that I just busted out laughing, and told her that I hoped to make that amount someday, too.

[ChiTown]

www.salary.com

Find the median for your field in your geographic region, then add 5+- %

I dunno about that site.

I checked what a Top Sales Executive (TSE) makes in total compensation for Wichita, and it was in the $250K/yr range (salary, beneifits and bonus). That's a bit on the high side for the average TSE compensation package. I'd say average total compensation for the TSE's in the Wichita area are closer to $180 range. I have a great friend at Koch who is a TSE, and he's probably in the $250K range (salary and bonus), but that's high end for Wichita, I'm sure.

[Mr. Kotter]

You better take your heart pills, because I am also in the process of buying another business as well.

;)

Damn, the penis enlargement business must be booming? :hmmm:

ROFL



Seriously though, what business?

[Rain Man]

I dunno about that site.

I checked what a Top Sales Executive (TSE) makes in total compensation for Wichita, and it was in the $250K/yr range (salary, beneifits and bonus). That's a bit on the high side for the average TSE compensation package. I'd say average total compensation for the TSE's in the Wichita area are closer to $180 range. I have a great friend at Koch who is a TSE, and he's probably in the $250K range (salary and bonus), but that's high end for Wichita, I'm sure.


I am a dismal failure.

[jAZ]

Damn, the penis enlargement business must be booming? :hmmm:

ROFL



Seriously though, what business?
A wholesale distributor of salon products (hair spray, skin cream, nail polish, equipment, etc).

[jAZ]

A wholesale distributor of salon products (hair spray, skin cream, nail polish, equipment, etc).
Let me be the first to post this...

http://www.chez.com/horusweb/serie-tv/drew-carey/mimi.jpg

[jAZ]

I am a dismal failure.
We all are.

[ChiTown]

I am a dismal failure.

No, not at all. Wichita is a weird place. There is a tremendous amount of wealth in this city from the Aviation and Oil industry executives. In a town that's about 320K in population, it's crowded with a lot of business executives that have made ton of money (especially, Koch Industries). Tulsa is probably another town that is similar in this respect to Wichita.

[JimNasium]

I must admit that I was disappointed to see that "urinal attendant" was not included as an occupation at salary.com.

[Mr. Kotter]

My buddy's pretty happy with it.

btw... if you buy from discount-enhancement.com... mention my name. Maybe he'll buy me a beer for the referral.


:hmmm:

You bled the last time, but you want it "bigger?" :shake:

You're one sick puppy.....

:p

[jAZ]

:hmmm:

You bled the last time, but you want it "bigger?" :shake:

You're one sick puppy.....

:p
You must be his "buddy".

[Brando]

Uh, no... I want a free beer. I'm not buying any shit from my buddy. I'm comfortable with my teeny weiner.

Can we change the subject before Go Chiefs gets on here offering to add pictures to this thread?