Defense Didn't Play That Bad.

[Chiefnj]

Entering the N.O. we knew that the D can't be counted on to shut down an opponenet an entire game. With that in mind, and the shoestring LB's in place, for KC to win games the offense has to capitalize on the defensive stops and turnovers.

What I saw yesterday was (in the first quarter) an aggressive D that was forcing 3 and outs and knocking Brooks around. The offense fumbled in the red zone and then couldn't score a TD after having two complete possessions from first and goal at the 5 yard line.

In the second quarter the D started giving up points, but then had a crucial INT that gave the O great field position should have turned momentum in favor of KC. Instead the offense ends up being in a situation of something like 3rd and 25. The Defense holds again and the Chiefs can't even get a field goal opportunity because Morton can't get out of bounds.

The second half the D did give up points, but also played well. Morton falls and the ball is picked off, the D holds. Next possession Chiefs offense goes 3 and out. C'mon you gotta help the D a little.

In all, the Defense wasn't great, but they had some very good moments. MOST of the problems were because of the safeties. There was no safety help at all on 2 of the three long passes to Horn and on another Woods whiffed.

With some decent safety play and an offense that should have put up over 28 points by mid 2nd quarter the game should have easily been a KC win.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

All I read was the thread title...but give me a fuggin break.

[ROYC75]

We must of watched a different game than you ?

[BigMeatballDave]

Something happened after Morton fumbled. This team suddenly, completely, deflated.

[Hammock Parties]

They suck. The offense sucks. The special teams suck. The Chiefs suck.

[Brock]

Rep for still being a homer.

[Gaz]

I agree.

Although the howling will be loud and piercing, the Offense lost the game yesterday. Despite a heroic performance by Blaylock [a great audition for his next team], the Offense choked big time.

The Saints have weapons on Offense and were going to put up some points. The Chiefs Defense forced several punts and got a turnover. The Chiefs Offense promptly squandered them.

That is not to say that this is a good Defense. It is not. But they did their job as well as can be expected: they forced some punts, got a turnover and slowed down The Enemy. The Offense completely dropped the ball [no pun intended].

xoxo~
Gaz
Almost ready to conclude that the Chiefs Offense ain’t all that.

[Chiefnj]

I'm not being a homer.

The Chiefs should have put 28 to 31 points up on the board in the first half. With the exception (and I know it is a big exception) of Woods and to a lesser degree Wesley, the D did enough to win the game.

[redshirt32]

For the first time in 25 years Im actually more interested in other games than the Chiefs on game day. :shake: Need I say more.

[BigMeatballDave]

I think what NJ is trying to get across here is, if the Chiefs would've been putting up big points early, it could've easily have been a 28-0 1st half...

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm not being a homer.

The Chiefs should have put 28 to 31 points up on the board in the first half. With the exception (and I know it is a big exception) of Woods and to a lesser degree Wesley, the D did enough to win the game.
:thumb:

[Hammock Parties]

What's even worse is that the D was only on the field for 24 minutes.

They gave up 27 points in 24 minutes. PATHETIC.

[ROYC75]

9th game into the season, the D should be better than this. Lack of tackling, dicipline, pass coverage, having enough guys on the field, etc.

Sorry, this Defense is bad, no other way about it. The shit we see now is stuff that happens in preseason, not the 9th game of the year.

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

a lot of coulda shoulda woulda

[redshirt32]

Three words

LACK OF TALENT

[Gaz]

What's even worse is that the D was only on the field for 24 minutes.

They gave up 27 points in 24 minutes. PATHETIC.

What's even worse is that the O was on the field for 36 minutes.

They scored 20 points in 36 minutes. PATHETIC.

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking at the REAL problem.

[Rick]

You've got to be kidding! How many big plays can a defense give up and still be good? My god, if you think they did a good job giving up 100 plus yards to a hurt running back and huge pass plays from a sorry qb and 27 pts to a sorry team on the verge of collapse you need to think again. Look at the time of possession!!!!!!! They did all that in less than half the time of our offense.

[Hammock Parties]

What's even worse is that the O was on the field for 36 minutes.

They scored 20 points in 36 minutes. PATHETIC.

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking at the REAL problem.


That too is pathetic. The Chiefs have an all-around pathetic team.

[BigMeatballDave]

The point is. The 'D' played well enough early for our 'O' to jump out into a big lead.

[Gaz]

That too is pathetic. The Chiefs have an all-around pathetic team.

Yes, but we expect the Defense to be bad.

xoxo~
Gaz
Learning to expect the same from the O.

[donkhater]

Wrong.

If they had been playing the Colts or even Denver, I would have agreed. But they were playing NO. A team that doesn't even have the sense to give the ball to it's best player.

As a fan of this team, I've now been conditioned to expect a flag on any pass play that results in a sack or incompletion. They are that bad and undisciplined.

[redshirt32]

This team has thrown in the towel

Looking ahead for next years draft
Another project that we trade for out of the first round...........................................

[Hammock Parties]

Yes, but we expect the Defense to be bad.

xoxo~
Gaz
Learning to expect the same from the O.


I certainly don't "expect" the defense to be bad.

xoxo~
UserName
Knows the Chiefs won't accomplish jack until they field a complete team.

[BigMeatballDave]

As a fan of this team, I've now been conditioned to expect a flag on any pass play that results in a sack or incompletion. They are that bad and undisciplined.Yeah, its tough to cheer a good defensive play, in fear of it being called back...

[Gaz]

I certainly don't "expect" the defense to be bad...

Then you have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found the one person who did not know the Chiefs D was sub-par.

[donkhater]

Yeah, its tough to cheer a good defensive play, in fear of it being called back...
What's worse it that the players expect it as well. You can kind of see them hold their breaths after every play to see if any yellow is on the field, THEN they high-five each other.

[BigChiefFan]

Yes, but we expect the Defense to be bad.

xoxo~
Gaz
Learning to expect the same from the O.

No, I EXPECT the best from all facets of our team.

[Hammock Parties]

Then you have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found the one person who did not know the Chiefs D was sub-par.


No, I know it's pathetic. But I always hope for the best.

[Gaz]

No, I EXPECT the best from all facets of our team.

Then you, too, have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found the other one.

[BigChiefFan]

Then you, too, have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

xoxo~
Gaz
Found the other one.

I am very aware of our pathetic defense, but my expectations are higher for them because they are PROFESSIONALS who are making more than enough to have incentive to get better. EXPECTING the worst out of somebody and that's what you will get...their worst.


Raising the bar.

[siberian khatru]

When you hold the ball for 36 minutes and roll up 500 yards of offense, you should score more than 27 points and win the game (and we only scored 20). Our D almost always puts us in shootouts, and this is one shootout we should've won.

[ARROW2]

What's worse it that the players expect it as well. You can kind of see them hold their breaths after every play to see if any yellow is on the field, THEN they high-five each other.




I do the same thing at home. I have a big problem with LATE flags. I don't know who we pissed off in the league office....I also notice we are hit with a big play right after a BS call because the players have their heads down. It happened against Indy as well. BS call on Warfield, touchdown to Harrison the very next play. Bad call yesterday, bomb the next. I am not excusing the players at all, I am still pissed off about giving up big plays. They have to be mentally stronger than that. The D's psyche is fragile.

[Gaz]

I am very aware of our pathetic defense, but my expectations are higher for them because they are PROFESSIONALS who are making more than enough to have incentive to get better. EXPECTING the worst out of somebody and that's what you will get...their worst.


Raising the bar.

You are confusing hope with expectation.

Life will deal you a ton of feces sandwiches with that misconception in your head. Open wide and don't forget to chew.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hoping in one hand.

[patteeu]

I completely agree with you NJ. It's not so much that the D is good or played well, it's that they played well enough to win. The offense is supposed to be, by far, our teams' strength. If the offense had played significantly better than the defense, the Chiefs would have won easily. Turnovers, failures in the red zone, turnovers in the red zone, not getting out of bounds to stop the clock, drive killing penalties, and giving up a sack to a 3 man rush caused this loss. The defense didn't make anyone stand up and take notice and they certainly made their fair share of dumb mistakes (safeties on the Horn receptions, everyone with dumb penalties, missed opportunities to take the ball away, etc.), but they played well enough to win and should have been playing from a comfortable lead instead of from a deficit.

[the Talking Can]

folks, we tried the "Offense scores shitload of points to cover for defense' thing last year....and it didn't work, anyone who expected it to work this year wasn't paying attention....

our defense is arguably worse, at this point, than last year...until we have something other than the worst D in the league we'll remain where we are....

[bringbackmarty]

What's even worse is that the O was on the field for 36 minutes.

They scored 20 points in 36 minutes. PATHETIC.

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking at the REAL problem.

Gaz the real problem is people using the third person when first is required. That and the fact that your momma has a better defensive secondary than the chiefs. The entire team lost that game yesterday. Specifically Jerome woods on the personal foul on third and 25. All the false starts, didn't help either. Joe Horn scoring on us at will? Quentin Jammer or sammy davis would not have been burned like that. In fact they weren't. horn held to two catches for 21 yards. neither would newman, woodson, or buchanan or bailey, or law or mckenzie for christ sakes. Our secondary sucks, it is a unique combination of turtle speed, inexperience, and age. Like a fine napa valley wine. Except all wine from cal sux everyone knows that that it doesn't hold a candle to what is made in europe. We have a crap football team right now, but it is most decidedly weakest in the defensive secondary.
xxoo~
BBM
thinks that gaz may have his head too far up the offenses az to see the secondary in the toilet.

[BigChiefFan]

You are confusing hope with expectation.

Life will deal you a ton of feces sandwiches with that misconception in your head. Open wide and don't forget to chew.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hoping in one hand.


According to Webster's I'm not confusing anything...


synonyms EXPECT, HOPE, LOOK mean to await some occurrence or outcome. EXPECT implies a high degree of certainty and usually involves the idea of preparing or envisioning <expects to be finished by Tuesday>. HOPE implies little certainty but suggests confidence or assurance in the possibility that what one desires or longs for will happen <hopes to find a job soon>. LOOK, with to, implies assurance that expectations will be fulfilled <looks to a tidy profit from the sale>; with for it implies less assurance and suggests an attitude of expectancy and watchfulness <look for rain when the wind shifts to the northeast>.

[Chiefnj]

Gaz the real problem is people using the third person when first is required. That and the fact that your momma has a better defensive secondary than the chiefs. The entire team lost that game yesterday. Specifically Jerome woods on the personal foul on third and 25. All the false starts, didn't help either. Joe Horn scoring on us at will? Quentin Jammer or sammy davis would not have been burned like that. In fact they weren't. horn held to two catches for 21 yards. neither would newman, woodson, or buchanan or bailey, or law or mckenzie for christ sakes. Our secondary sucks, it is a unique combination of turtle speed, inexperience, and age. Like a fine napa valley wine. Except all wine from cal sux everyone knows that that it doesn't hold a candle to what is made in europe. We have a crap football team right now, but it is most decidedly weakest in the defensive secondary.
xxoo~
BBM
thinks that gaz may have his head too far up the offenses az to see the secondary in the toilet.


Corners are going to get burned by Pro-Bowl receivers if they don't get safety help. A few weeks ago on Monday night Chad Johnson lit up Bailey. It happens, especially with the enforcement of the no-touch rules. McKenzie got beat by Kennison several times yesterday as well. It isn't a unique problem to the Chiefs.

[Gaz]

BBM-

The Offense lost the game. Four turnovers, multiple penalties, six squandered opportunities on a single incursion the red zone, disappearing for half the game, and the same old miserable performance when the game was on the line.

And the exact location of my head is kept secret for national security reasons.

xoxo~
Gaz
Too valuable to the country.

[BigChiefFan]

I just don't get the let's hold a certain part of the team in higher regard. Yes, the offense has been better than the defense, however, you win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. Holding a higher standard for a particular group (the offense) is giving the defense a free pass which is unacceptable.


Finding fault in all three phases.

[Chiefnj]

I just don't get the let's hold a certain part of the team in higher regard. Yes, the offense has been better than the defense, however, you win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. Holding a higher standard for a particular group (the offense) is giving the defense a free pass which is unacceptable.


Finding fault in all three phases.

You have to hold the offense to a higher standard; they are filled with Pro-Bowlers.

When your defense is comprised of starters with the names Caver, Mitchell and Bartee you have to whittle down your expectations.

[bringbackmarty]

Corners are going to get burned by Pro-Bowl receivers if they don't get safety help. A few weeks ago on Monday night Chad Johnson lit up Bailey. It happens, especially with the enforcement of the no-touch rules. McKenzie got beat by Kennison several times yesterday as well. It isn't a unique problem to the Chiefs.
horn vs san diego 2 catches twenty one yards. horn vs chiefs, well you saw it.
who won the game where bailey got lit up? Sure it happens, and when it happens the team it's happening too usually loses. we are also talking bout joe horn here. He is a bazillion yrs old, and is no ****ing terell owens or randy moss, and chad morton is faster better and cheaper than Joe Horn, a player in decline. The o has problems yes, it also has talent and an identity. The defense has no hope, or talent, or identity. We also do need safety help. you are right bout that.

[King_Chief_Fan]

The whole phuggin team is to blame.
Defense penalties that kept drives alive....
Defense giving up big, big plays..RB and WR had career days against
the Chiefs.
Offense not capitalizing on 6 attempts from the 5 yard line
Offense turning the ball over.

[BigChiefFan]

You have to hold the offense to a higher standard; they are filled with Pro-Bowlers.

When your defense is comprised of starters with the names Caver, Mitchell and Bartee you have to whittle down your expectations. No, what I expect is the best out of all players, regardless of which unit they play for. EXPECTING the defense to fail is giving them a free pass and not holding anybody responsible. Regardless of what some think, the defense has a job to do as well and should be held accountable. Also, if those that have come to EXPECT less out of the defense, then why did we stand pat in FA, KNOWING the defense was inferior? Either way, the plan to improve sucked/sucks.

[Chiefnj]

horn vs san diego 2 catches twenty one yards. horn vs chiefs, well you saw it.
who won the game where bailey got lit up? Sure it happens, and when it happens the team it's happening too usually loses. we are also talking bout joe horn here. He is a bazillion yrs old, and is no ****ing terell owens or randy moss, and chad morton is faster better and cheaper than Joe Horn, a player in decline. The o has problems yes, it also has talent and an identity. The defense has no hope, or talent, or identity. We also do need safety help. you are right bout that.


Horn is a Pro-Bowl reciever. He put up over 100 yards against Seattle; I guess Trufant and the rest of the Seattle secondary sucks and they should all be replaced this offseason as well? Horn got the best of Woods several times, no doubt about it, but Pro Bowl receivers almost always come up big. Owens got a key reception that led to the Eagles win over the Ravens. Do the Ravens get rid of McAllister and Reed?

[Chiefnj]

No, what I expect is the best out of all players, regardless of which unit they play for. EXPECTING the defense to fail is giving them a free pass and not holding anybody responsible. Regardless of what some think, the defense has a job to do as well and should be held accountable. Also, if those that have come to EXPECT less out of the defense, then why did we stand pat in FA, KNOWING the defense was inferior? Either way, the plan to improve sucked/sucks.


I'm not giving the D a free pass or expecting them to fail. They came out, knocked Brooks around, forced 3 and outs and got a key turnover putting the offense near midfield. I do expect the offense to capitalize on the good defensive plays and I know that if they don't the Chiefs will lose the game.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Do the Ravens get rid of McAllister and Reed?

no, but Chiefs sure as heck needs to get rid of Woods

[BigChiefFan]

Horn is a Pro-Bowl reciever. He put up over 100 yards against Seattle; I guess Trufant and the rest of the Seattle secondary sucks and they should all be replaced this offseason as well? Horn got the best of Woods several times, no doubt about it, but Pro Bowl receivers almost always come up big. Owens got a key reception that led to the Eagles win over the Ravens. Do the Ravens get rid of McAllister and Reed?Have you seen Woods play the past few years? It would be one thing if it was a game or two, but Woods has struggled for years now. I wont make excuses for our crappy play, regardless of who the player is, Woods included.

[Chiefnj]

Have you seen Woods play the past few years? It would be one thing if it was a game or two, but Woods has struggled for years now. I wont make excuses for our crappy play, regardless of who the player is, Woods included.

I'm not making excuses for Woods. He sucks. He sucked horribly yesterday and most of the deep passes to Horn were his fault.

I disagree that Woods struggled for years. He played well the first half of last year. I also don't think it was unrealistic for Gunther or Vermeil to think that Woods would return to his old self under Gunther's scheme this year. Obviously, I was wrong and so was the coaching staff. He should be benched.

[jspchief]

Yes, but we expect the Defense to be bad.

xoxo~
Gaz
Learning to expect the same from the O.


What a horsesh*t excuse! Since they usually suck, that excuses them from actually performing in a game from here on out? Why is only one side of the ball required to show up on Sundays? How can you hold the offense to such a higher standard?

This wasn't just the usual suckage from the D either. It was suckage with an exclamation point. The Chiefs D gave two players their best game of the year, one of which probably had the best day of his career. As someone else mentioned, our O gave us a great TOP advantage. Whether they score TDs or not, they're already doing their part by keeping the ball out of the opponents hands.

McAllister averaged almost 8 yards per carry. That means our run D sucked. McAllister has only gone over 100 yards one other time this season. Oakland held him to a 1.8 avg on 24 carries for god's sake, and they're in the bottom third of the league in run D (ranked lower than us before Sunday). He only averages 4.5 YPC for his career.

Horn averaged 33 yards per catch. That means our pass D sucked. This isn't Randy Moss, it's Joe Horn. He's been held under 70 yards 4 times this season by teams that don't have pro-bowl DBs. His highest in YPC avg in a game before yesterday was 18. His career YPC avg is 14.5, he more than doubled it. The other 2 games this year where he caught 5 or less balls he didn't break 50 yards.

It's one thing to expect our D to suck. But it's idiotic to accept it or excuse it. I'm disgusted that Chiefs fans are so conditioned to horrible D that we no longer even ask them to perform. It's f*cking insulting to everything this offense has done and it pisses me off.

[BigChiefFan]

I'm not making excuses for Woods. He sucks. He sucked horribly yesterday and most of the deep passes to Horn were his fault.

I disagree that Woods struggled for years. He played well the first half of last year. I also don't think it was unrealistic for Gunther or Vermeil to think that Woods would return to his old self under Gunther's scheme this year. Obviously, I was wrong and so was the coaching staff. He should be benched.
We're on the same page.

[bringbackmarty]

You can find exceptions to everything anyone says on this board, so I'm done arguing my point. We should let the secondary remain as it is (the worst in the nfl) and blame our offense 500 yds the last four outings for our teams failures. You guys know nothing about football. Defense wins champioships y'all. Offense may one one here or there, but for multiple championships it's defense. Here's hoping we draft rolle, or kiwanuka and pick up some defensive help in fa. Or should we get another te tweener to help us out? **** it lets draft a runningback.

[Chiefnj]

You can find exceptions to everything anyone says on this board, so I'm done arguing my point. We should let the secondary remain as it is (the worst in the nfl) and blame our offense 500 yds the last four outings for our teams failures. You guys know nothing about football. Defense wins champioships y'all. Offense may one one here or there, but for multiple championships it's defense. Here's hoping we draft rolle, or kiwanuka and pick up some defensive help in fa. Or should we get another te tweener to help us out? **** it lets draft a runningback.

I suggest you actually read my replies. Nowhere did I suggest that the secondary remain as it is.

[bringbackmarty]

We're on the same page.
woods brokew his leg in tc last year I thought, maybe i'm wrong.

[Gaz]

The Offense was insulting.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not like it, but has to accept it.

[BigChiefFan]

woods brokew his leg in tc last year I thought, maybe i'm wrong.
The year before.

[bringbackmarty]

I suggest you actually read my replies. Nowhere did I suggest that the secondary remain as it is.
you sure aren't suggesting any changes in your replies and you seem content to blame the offense and not the defense, so I must assume you are okay with the d.

[jspchief]

The Offense was insulting.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not like it, but has to accept it.


Yea, well the offense just called you a name, while the defense has been kicking you in the balls and screwing your wife for three years now.

I don't get your obsession with defending the D Gaz. What defensive coach has you in their will?

Early in the year you were trying to tell me how the D was improved. How it didn't matter that we gave up huge chunks of yards to Jamal Lewis on his few carries. How we were shutting down the run.

Now all of a sudden the D isn't improved, they're just what we should expect of them. They've always sucked and we've always known it.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and sh*tting yourself at the same time. Get a f*cking clue about how the game of football works.

[BigChiefFan]

The Offense was insulting.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not like it, but has to accept it.

The defense screwed the pooch, too.

[bringbackmarty]

The year before.
jeez it's all moving by so fast. We get an offense and poof there goes the defense and then poof pretty soon we have nothing again.

[donkhater]

Defense didn't play that bad....

That statement right there shows how bad this defense has been; when they play has horribly and undisciplined as they did yesterday and someone still thinks they did OK.

[bringbackmarty]

Yea, well the offense just called you a name, while the defense has been kicking you in the balls and screwing your wife for three years now.

I don't get your obsession with defending the D Gaz. What defensive coach has you in their will?

Early in the year you were trying to tell me how the D was improved. How it didn't matter that we gave up huge chunks of yards to Jamal Lewis on his few carries. How we were shutting down the run.

Now all of a sudden the D isn't improved, they're just what we should expect of them. They've always sucked and we've always known it.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and sh*tting yourself at the same time. Get a f*cking clue about how the game of football works.
rep

[2bikemike]

While I agree that their were more than enough mistakes to go around. And it is always a team loss. The bottom line is if the offense doesn't score everytime they touch the ball we will lose. That doesn't cut it.

The problem yesterday is you would see the defense make 5 or 6 good plays and then give up a big one. For every big play they gave up NO scored.

[Rain Man]

jeez it's all moving by so fast. We get an offense and poof there goes the defense and then poof pretty soon we have nothing again.


I think we're entering an era where our blocking on extra points is going to be superb.

[patteeu]

you sure aren't suggesting any changes in your replies and you seem content to blame the offense and not the defense, so I must assume you are okay with the d.

He said that you aren't reading his posts and you are proving him right.

[Gaz]

The defense screwed the pooch, too.

Yes, they did. I have not said otherwise.

However, they have done so consistently for several years now. It is raw foolishness to expect them to suddenly and miraculously play better.

Now, we can certainly discuss what coulda, shoulda, woulda been done to fix that in the off-season, but that does not change the fact that our Defense is not good. And has not been good for over two years now. You would think that we would all understand by now that this is not a good Defense. Apparently, that is not the case for some.

Since we all know the Defense is bad and the Offense is littered with good players who have managed to rack up beaucoup points, which part of the team do you think has to carry the team? I am not talking about Fantasy Land, where our Defense is stout and true. I am talking about the real world.

xoxo~
Gaz
Reluctantly accepts the awful reality of a crummy D.

[Gaz]

Defense didn't play that bad....

That statement right there shows how bad this defense has been; when they play has horribly and undisciplined as they did yesterday and someone still thinks they did OK.

It certainly shows how low the bar has dropped.

xoxo~
Gaz
Saddened.

[Baby Lee]

I just don't get the let's hold a certain part of the team in higher regard. Yes, the offense has been better than the defense, however, you win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. Holding a higher standard for a particular group (the offense) is giving the defense a free pass which is unacceptable.


Finding fault in all three phases.
Ob-La-Dee, Ob-La-Da, Life Goes OOOONNN, yah.