NFT: Do non-Smokers want to pay more taxes!!!

[KC Kings]

As the quest to ban smoking in all public places continues to make headlines, has anybody stopped to think about the repercussions to the non-smoker. Sure my .001% chance of getting cancer from second hand smoke would be completely eliminated, but what about the $112,929,932.00 in taxes paid to Missouri every year by cigarette smokers? I hear about the "potential medical cost associated.." and all the other giberish, but what about the cold hard cash that the State will be losing as they continue to attempt to force smokers to stop smoking.

[Mr. Laz]

ahhh... quit your crying and go have another cig


http://mm.wtal.de/mm/smoking.jpg

[KCWolfman]

It's bullshit anyway.

If a company wants to make their store non-smoking or with a non-smoking section, they should have that right.


Just as if a company wants to make their store a smoking facility.


I have never even tried a cigarette in my life, but if I own a business that would lose profits due to forced action against me like above, I would demand compensation from the city that stole it from me.

[alanm]

They'll do what they have done here in Nebraska. Hike the property tax and Alcohol tax.:thumb: Believe me they'll find a way to make up for it.

[Rain Man]

If we encouraged more people to smoke, would my taxes go down?

[Logical]

Living in California (smoking is not allowed anywhere indoors) people do not quit they just step outside to smoke, so the tax revenue is still there for the government.

[alanm]

If we encouraged more people to smoke, would my taxes go down?I think the state of Nebraska wants to encourage more people to drink though. The idiots that be have lost mega tax bucks to people that buy their cigs in Iowa and Wyoming instead of Nebraska by Nebraskas riduculous tax hike on cigs. People will find a way to get around it. Now the Beer drinkers are getting rammed from behind.:thumb:

[ptlyon]

I think the state of Nebraska wants to encourage more people to drink though. The idiots that be have lost mega tax bucks to people that buy their cigs in Iowa and Wyoming instead of Nebraska by Nebraskas riduculous tax hike on cigs. People will find a way to get around it. Now the Beer drinkers are getting rammed from behind.:thumb:

Nebraska: Welcome to the Good Life

[C-Mac]

1.If all places in the area were banned from smoking, then how on earth do you loose revenue? Is someone going to travel to another restaurant 100 miles away from their old favorite one just to smoke a stupid cigarrette?
2.With a little research, you'll find smoking itself has a HUGE impact on medical costs.
3. Although I do respect the right to smoke if you like, there is absolutely nothing positive or beneficial to gain from habitually smoking cigarettes.

[ptlyon]

3. Although I do respect the right to smoke if you like, there is absolutely nothing positive or beneficial to gain from habitually smoking cigarettes.

Dude, you really ought to try some. They really take the edge off.

[alanm]

Nebraska: Welcome to the Good LifeThat's why the people in S. Souix City are crossing the bridge to buy beer and cigs. Only a matter of time before the tax hikes hit Iowa.

[ptlyon]

That's why the people in S. Souix City are crossing the bridge to buy beer and cigs. Only a matter of time before the tax hikes hit Iowa.

I just wish they would buy their Budweiser over there

[morphius]

Nebraska: Welcome to the Good Life
Yup, almost as good as, "Iowa It'll make you smile"

[Calcountry]

It's bullshit anyway.

If a company wants to make their store non-smoking or with a non-smoking section, they should have that right.


Just as if a company wants to make their store a smoking facility.


I have never even tried a cigarette in my life, but if I own a business that would lose profits due to forced action against me like above, I would demand compensation from the city that stole it from me.
California went through all this crap like, 15 years ago.

They have banned everything, even in bars. You cannot smoke in Bars.

Is that what you want?

Comming soon.

[Calcountry]

1.If all places in the area were banned from smoking, then how on earth do you loose revenue? Is someone going to travel to another restaurant 100 miles away from their old favorite one just to smoke a stupid cigarrette?
2.With a little research, you'll find smoking itself has a HUGE impact on medical costs.
3. Although I do respect the right to smoke if you like, there is absolutely nothing positive or beneficial to gain from habitually smoking cigarettes.
How much impact does Mayonaise have on health costs?

What about McDonalds?

What else are you going to socially engineer.

We don't live in a free country, it is a myth. We have all these utopiaists running arround trying to perfect everything.

SORRY, WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE SOMEDAY.

[KCWolfman]

1.If all places in the area were banned from smoking, then how on earth do you loose revenue? Is someone going to travel to another restaurant 100 miles away from their old favorite one just to smoke a stupid cigarrette?
2.With a little research, you'll find smoking itself has a HUGE impact on medical costs.
3. Although I do respect the right to smoke if you like, there is absolutely nothing positive or beneficial to gain from habitually smoking cigarettes.
There is nothing positive to gain from this bulletin board either - that doesn't mean it should be banned from use in certain cities.

Yes, people will adjust their schedules and go to restaurants that do offer smoking over non-smoking. They are not hundreds of miles away. I live about 20 minutes outside of KC. If KC started a smoking ban, I simply would not take my wife (a smoker) to any bars or restaurants there. We would spend our money only north of the river - so it does affect revenue.

Drinking has a huge impact on medical costs as well as driving, yet they are still legal in all states.

[KCWolfman]

Good luck with that.

To my knowledge, the City of Tempe never offered to pay the Timber Wolf's rent for them. So, when they couldn't catch up... they just shut down.
Really? According to many here, it doesn't impact your revenue. Evidently Timber Wolf was just mistaken, eh? ;)

[Logical]

There is nothing positive to gain from this bulletin board either - that doesn't mean it should be banned from use in certain cities.

Yes, people will adjust their schedules and go to restaurants that do offer smoking over non-smoking. They are not hundreds of miles away. I live about 20 minutes outside of KC. If KC started a smoking ban, I simply would not take my wife (a smoker) to any bars or restaurants there. We would spend our money only north of the river - so it does affect revenue.

Drinking has a huge impact on medical costs as well as driving, yet they are still legal in all states.

That is why California did it right and enacted a statewide ban. You got a long ass trip to leave the state just so you can kill yourself while eating.

[Bob Dole]

It's bullshit anyway.

If a company wants to make their store non-smoking or with a non-smoking section, they should have that right.


Just as if a company wants to make their store a smoking facility.


I have never even tried a cigarette in my life, but if I own a business that would lose profits due to forced action against me like above, I would demand compensation from the city that stole it from me.

Ding! We have a winner. It's about the rights of the business owner.

Bob Dole is still working on a grant proposal that would put a lot the "issues" to rest for good and we could stop arguing about bullshit theories.

Open up 2 identical restaurants equidistant from the drive of a common parking lot--one restaurant allows smoking in a designated area and the other is smoke-free. Rotate the staff weekly between the two. A bunch of other crap that's too much to type here, but the point being to make them as identical as possible in every detail.

Perform a 3 year study on total revenue, hourly revenue, revenue per table, table turnover, tipping rates, etc., and answer once and for all whether these ordinances have an impact on individual businesses or not.

[KCWolfman]

That is why California did it right and enacted a statewide ban. You got a long ass trip to leave the state just so you can kill yourself while eating.
Thank goodness the crazed goons live en masse on the coasts and don't do so here. While KC may pass a city ordinance, I don't see the state of missouri following suit anytime soon.

[KC Kings]

There is nothing positive to gain from this bulletin board either - that doesn't mean it should be banned from use in certain cities.

Yes, people will adjust their schedules and go to restaurants that do offer smoking over non-smoking. They are not hundreds of miles away. I live about 20 minutes outside of KC. If KC started a smoking ban, I simply would not take my wife (a smoker) to any bars or restaurants there. We would spend our money only north of the river - so it does affect revenue.

Drinking has a huge impact on medical costs as well as driving, yet they are still legal in all states.

I would bet that cell phones cause more accidents than cigarettes do, yet cell phones are still legal to drive with.

Also, obesity cost the health care system 10 times as much as smoking does, yet it is ok to sit your fat ass in a non-smoking Hardee's and eat a 1300 calorie burger.

As for revenue impacting, what are the percentage of smokers to bar regulars? 50%? A lot of people I know that don't smoke regularly, do smoke when they go out to a bar. I don't smoke, but I don't go out to bars/clubs by myself, and most of the time one of the people in our group is a smoker. There are tons of bars from Blue Springs to North KC to Olathe, and if KC outlawed smoking in bars I garauntee you that our revenue would go to a non-KC establishment.

[ptlyon]

I would bet that cell phones cause more accidents than cigarettes do, yet cell phones are still legal to drive with.


Not here they ain't. They will pull you over for having a "distraction".

[Bob Dole]

That is why California did it right and enacted a statewide ban. You got a long ass trip to leave the state just so you can kill yourself while eating.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out here in a split city. The Texas side just passed a ban, while the Arkansas side shot it down.

The Texas side already has prohibitive alcohol ordinances (dry county) while the Arkansas side is wet. Bob Dole assumes they weren't happy with just losing the fuel and alcohol revenues (which side of State Line Avenue are you going to build your convenience store?), they thought they'd run off some more tax revenues when all the new restaurant and bar construction takes place on the other side of the state line.

[KCWolfman]

It was so predictable for anyone with a brain.

I still remember before the vote on the ban came up for vote sitting in a Tempe bar discussing it with a group of folks. One member of the group, an ASU student, was all in favor of a ban. Being from California, she was used to bars being smoke free. My attempts to explain to her that in ten minute we could drive from the bar we were at to a bar in Old Town Scottsdale... and that if the ban passed, many smokers would do just that... and that there was the possibility of businesses closing and/or jobs lost received a, "I don't care" from her self-centered mouth. I don't recall what my response was... but it was swift and vulgar.

Some time after the ban had been in effect... and I had moved to Scottsdale... I ran into her at a Scottsdale bar. Where she had apparently been hanging out regularly. Knowing her... I had seen that one coming a mile away. Even tho she was a non-smoker, she wanted to be at the popular bar... guess which bars went up in popularity.
Bitch. I hope she get second hand smoke lung cancer.

[DaKCMan AP]

Not mentioning the health risks and all that jazz, just the smell of smoke and breathing it in makes me gag. It smells so disgusting and breathing it in is even worse. I'm very happy the majority of places today have non-smoking accomidations.

[DaKCMan AP]

BTW, the way it works in Florida is there is a smoking ban in all places except those establishments where alcohol makes up a certain percentage of the total income.

[Bob Dole]

Not mentioning the health risks and all that jazz, just the smell of smoke and breathing it in makes me gag. It smells so disgusting and breathing it in is even worse. I'm very happy the majority of places today have non-smoking accomidations.

By all means then, you should be able to use the government to coerce business owners to bend to your desires.

All that "market" talk is just voodoo mumbojumbo.

[Ghostof]

BAN ALL SMOKING FROM ALL PLACES OMG11

[Logical]

While I'm opposed to banning smoking on principle, you're absolutely right... that is the "right" way to do it.

What's funny is, the morons in Tempe who didn't understand the difference between Tempe and California. I lost count of the number of times I had an exchange like this...

*generic comment about bars losing business*
"California has had smoking banned for years. Their bars are still open."
"You can't drive 10 minutes from LA and be in another state."
*blank stare*

IIRC, they even had a statement like that on their propaganda. I don't understand how people can be so stupid. It's infuriating.

I kind of believe a statewide ban in Mo would be an economic problem with so many major population centers bordering other states. Even statewide bans will not work everywhere. Some states it will work in are Texas, Arizona, Nevada Colorado all where the major population centers are far from the state borders.

[DaKCMan AP]

By all means then, you should be able to use the government to coerce business owners to bend to your desires.

All that "market" talk is just voodoo mumbojumbo.

Others use it to regulate what is on television (see ABC's MNF hot topic) and the radio. Might use it to my favor for once.

[ROYC75]

but what about the $112,929,932.00 in taxes paid to Missouri every year by cigarette smokers?

Send it to me, I can find a place for it ! :thumb:

[DaKCMan AP]

In my best "mother" voice...

If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too?


no, but if you were getting shot at wouldn't you return fire?

[Katipan]

Yeah, you really gotta cover the KC Metro Area...

You don't even need a statewide ban in AZ. Maricopa county covers the Phoenix metro... ban it county wide, and you don't have to worry about the rural voters.

I wonder how much the negative fallout from the Tempe ban is hurting/will hurt future ban attempts around here. I thought I remembered that Scottsdale was supposed to be an upcoming target for the guy leading the charge to ban in Tempe... it's been over two years since that ban passed, and I haven't heard anything yet.

Chandler, Mesa, Tempe, and Gilbert all banned smoking. ANd sorry End, but no one is driving from Chandler to Scottsdale to buy overpriced drinks. ;)

The new law would not apply to stand-alone bars, bars in bowling alleys and bars inside restaurants, provided they are separate from the restaurant and have their own ventilation system.

[C-Mac]

Dude, you really ought to try some. They really take the edge off.


I did for 7 years.....still not good. :D

[Lightning Rod]

:cuss:

If I own a Bar & grill I should be able to decide that no one can smoke.

I should be able to decide if the entire establishment is smoking.

I should be able to decide if there are smoking and non-smoking sections.


The general public can then decide if they want to spend money in my establishment or if they would care to work in my place or not. It is called freedom of choice and free enterprise. It is supposed to be what this country is founded on. Encouraging this kind of encroachment into our personal and business lives (even if you don't smoke) sets the precedent for the government to eliminate the next freedom and that one you might care about. :banghead:

[Katipan]

Thats Chandlers ban I quoted, definitely not Tempe's.



Smoke in Sonny's saturday night.

[Katipan]

nononon

not comparing.

Just pointing out that... A larger scale banning is coming with each city that chokes down. And the poke at you for living in Scottsdale.

here you go :P

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1117smokeban17.html

[Braincase]

Will there be a decrease in the total amount of cost due to a decrease in Medicare & other hospital expenses due to a decrease in emphysema, heart disease & other smoking-related ails? Why do kids start smoking in the first place? To be cool? Stress? Broken heart? I never met a girl that smoked in my life that wasn't easy... better keep the girls lighting up - they're easier for ENDelt to mark.

[Katipan]

Seriously, tho... why should I go to Sonny's on Saturday? You gotta give me a good reason to drive that far.

I can smoke and look at boobies much closer to home. :D

ok then not THIS Saturday, but when I get back from LA I'll give you a few reasons. :)

And for the dirty minded, my husband would be there. He's definitely not one of the reasons.

[alanm]

Yup, almost as good as, "Iowa It'll make you smile"I remember "Iowa, A State of Mind." Ahhh.... The fun us Nebraskans had with that one. ROFL

[Mojo Rising]

I don't smoke but I don't like the smoking ban. I too end up outside to continue a conversation with my friend who does smoke. I used to smoke when Marlboro's were 1.10 a pack, 9.90 for a carton. I still can't believe a pack costs $4-5 now. It is all taxes.

[alanm]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out here in a split city. The Texas side just passed a ban, while the Arkansas side shot it down.

The Texas side already has prohibitive alcohol ordinances (dry county) while the Arkansas side is wet. Bob Dole assumes they weren't happy with just losing the fuel and alcohol revenues (which side of State Line Avenue are you going to build your convenience store?), they thought they'd run off some more tax revenues when all the new restaurant and bar construction takes place on the other side of the state line.What kind of morons in charge of the show do they have over there on the Texas side. So in order to make up for lost revenue they raise the property tax, Ultility rates go up. Sales tax goes up a 1/2 cent or better. If you get a parking ticket you discover that court costs went up $30 more than what it cost when you were last ticketed. Wow!! $26.50 to renew my drivers license??? :eek: :cuss: Businesses relocate to the otherside of the river because that's where the people are and the tax rate is cheaper. Chaos ensues on the Texas side. And all because smoking a cigarette offended some panty waist sitting in the corner booth at the bar. :shake:

[alanm]

I kind of believe a statewide ban in Mo would be an economic problem with so many major population centers bordering other states. Even statewide bans will not work everywhere. Some states it will work in are Texas, Arizona, Nevada Colorado all where the major population centers are far from the state borders.Denver isn't far from Wyoming, Kansas, or Nebraska.