The Hemp Thread.

[teedubya]

It is amazing what this plant can do. Im a Christian at heart, and believe that God gave us this bad ass plant to help us out.

* the first Bibles were printed on hemp paper
* the first US flag was made out of hemp
* the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence were printed on hemp paper.
* an acre of hemp produces more than 4 times the amount of paper than an acre of trees, and it grows back in less than a year
* Henry Ford made a hemp-mobile
* "Marijuana" is just the Hispanic name for hemp, they are the exact same plant. (The name, "marijuana", was used by law enforcement and the media for this "Mexican killer weed" to taboo and sensationalize it in concerned American's minds.)
* Birds live 20% longer when hemp seed is a part of their diet
* Hemp seed oil has been used (and should be used) in everything from engine oil and paint, to cosmetics and foods for man and beast alike
* In the 1600s, there were places in the US where growing hemp was enforced by law
* You could pay your taxes with hemp for 200 years during the 1700s in the US
* Hemp seeds have been a staple and a life-saver during many famines and food shortages throughout history (over 60% of Third World children are dying everyday because of protein starvation , but Mr. Government says they can't grow it - it's against the law!)
* There are receptors in the brain which science has found will bind with THC compounds alone, and no other
* The depletion of the ozone layer threatens to reduce soy crops by up to 50%, but hemp is immune to the damages of ultraviolet light (it actually makes it produce more of the resin that contains the THC)
* Hemp is a more prolific producer of ethanol than corn
* Hemp requires little to no industry, it grows in the ground (cleaning the soil of toxins), then is cut, dried, and utilized... (Does it make any sense that the government doesn't jump on this, legalize it and tax the pants off of it instead of increasing everyone’s already-insane taxes to reduce the country's deficit?? Tax pot!)
* Buddha lived on ONE hemp seed a day for over 5 years.
* And apparently if you set it on fire and inhale the smoke of it, it gives you a euphoric feeling.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every green herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
-Genesis 1:29 -

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
-Abe Lincoln, 1840

[teedubya]

The seeds of the cannabis plant are "the most nutritionally complete food source on earth." No other single food source provides such complete protein, in such an easily digestible form, nor has the oils essential to life in such a perfect ratio. One plant can produce at least a liter of seeds (that's 55 million seeds/hectare), and they contain no THC (that means they don't get you high, champ). These wonderful little seeds contain:

* 22.5% protein
* 30% fat
* 5.7% moisture
* 5.9% ash
* 503cal/100g energy
* 35.8% carbohydrates
* vitamins A, B1, B2, B3, B6, C, D, E,
* the highest total essential fatty acids and essential amino acids found in one single food source.

[teedubya]

Go to the grocery store...

walk down the cereal aisle...

The Box of cereal, could be made from hemp.

The plastic wrapper sealing the cereal fresh, could be made of hemp.

The cereal itself could be made of hemp.

Paper or Plastic? Both made from hemp.

The car you drove to the grocery store could use hemp oil for fuel.

The interior of your car could be made from hemp.

Your car's tires could be made from hemp.

The Exterior of the car could be made from hemp.




:hmmm: could these products help commerce?

[ChiTown]

I just sat in on a drug and alcohol rehab class last saturday. Their stats were a little different from yours......;)

[teedubya]

Im sure they talked about only that it can get you high and how its a bad drug. Im only talking about the industrial uses of this... oh yeah, you can smoke it....

but damn there are over 1000 uses of this plant.

[chiefs4me]

It is amazing what this plant can do. Im a Christian at heart, and believe that God gave us this bad ass plant to help us out.

* the first Bibles were printed on hemp paper
* the first US flag was made out of hemp
* the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence were printed on hemp paper.
* an acre of hemp produces more than 4 times the amount of paper than an acre of trees, and it grows back in less than a year
* Henry Ford made a hemp-mobile
* "Marijuana" is just the Hispanic name for hemp, they are the exact same plant. (The name, "marijuana", was used by law enforcement and the media for this "Mexican killer weed" to taboo and sensationalize it in concerned American's minds.)
* Birds live 20% longer when hemp seed is a part of their diet
* Hemp seed oil has been used (and should be used) in everything from engine oil and paint, to cosmetics and foods for man and beast alike
* In the 1600s, there were places in the US where growing hemp was enforced by law
* You could pay your taxes with hemp for 200 years during the 1700s in the US
* Hemp seeds have been a staple and a life-saver during many famines and food shortages throughout history (over 60% of Third World children are dying everyday because of protein starvation , but Mr. Government says they can't grow it - it's against the law!)
* There are receptors in the brain which science has found will bind with THC compounds alone, and no other
* The depletion of the ozone layer threatens to reduce soy crops by up to 50%, but hemp is immune to the damages of ultraviolet light (it actually makes it produce more of the resin that contains the THC)
* Hemp is a more prolific producer of ethanol than corn
* Hemp requires little to no industry, it grows in the ground (cleaning the soil of toxins), then is cut, dried, and utilized... (Does it make any sense that the government doesn't jump on this, legalize it and tax the pants off of it instead of increasing everyone’s already-insane taxes to reduce the country's deficit?? Tax pot!)
* And apparently if you set it on fire and inhale the smoke of it, it gives you a euphoric feeling.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every green herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
-Genesis 1:29 -

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
-Abe Lincoln, 1840



I can vouch for the last use on your list.:thumb:

[BIG_DADDY]

Im sure they talked about only that it can get you high and how its a bad drug. Im only talking about the industrial uses of this... oh yeah, you can smoke it....

but damn there are over 1000 uses of this plant.

We should be using this on a very large scale, the fact that we are not is complete BS.

[seclark]

We should be using this on a very large scale, the fact that we are not is complete BS.
hey...i'm doing my part!
sec

[RealSNR]

It's also amusing to see an indian smoke it at a gas station in broad daylight.

[KC Jones]

Let us burn one, from end to end.
And pass it over to me my friend.
Burn it long, but burn it slow,
to light me up before I go.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around.
Cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes I'm gonna burn one down

My choice is what i chose to do;
and if I'm causin no harm,
it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you chose to be;
and if your causin to harm, then your alright with me.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around, cause I'm gona burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one, down.

Herb the gift, from the Earth,
and what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before u knock it, try it first.
and you'll see it's a blessing and it's not a curse.
If you dont like my fire, then dont come around,
cause i'm gonna burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one.

[ChiTown]

BTW, when I say I sat in on a Drug and Alcohol class, I actually mean to say that I was sent there to be a part of it due to a DUI. It was 8 hours of my life that I will never get back. If they offered death as an alternative, I might have chosen it.

[Mr. Kotter]

I was our Batallion D & A officer, for two years when I was an officer.

First thing we should do, is cut the charade--let's cut to the chase; medicinal marijuana, and hemp, are attempts by those in favor of legalization to bring in their idea through the back door. Period. It is an elaborate pretense aimed at making it more socially acceptable, and readily available--to get more people "on the bandwagon." Marinol does the job of medicinal marijuana; and hemp simply is, as yet, not an economical or cost effiecient alternative to the items they claim it can be used for--if it were, it would be DONE. We live in a free market, capitalist economy--if hemp were truly profitable and a viable alternative, we'd be there all ready.

Secondly, in Utopia, where citizens are free to make their own choices, and suffer the consequences (or not) of their choices, most of us would agree we should lift the prohibition. However, we don't live in Utopia.

We live in a welfare state, that insists on redistributing wealth to help those who are poor, sick, and otherwise "disadvantaged" (I'm NOT sayin' that's a bad thing; just how willing are "we" to foot the bill for addicts though?) Additional dependency and addiction that would surely result (despite the denials of the Grass Roots, or "High Times" folks) from "legalization" would impose a tremendous financial burden on the rest of society--a burden that most of us would greatly resent.

Guarantee me, that not one additional red cent of taxpayer dollars would be used to address the fall-out from "legalization"--and I'd be on board. Otherwise, why would we want to add another major addiction, another major problem....to join with alcohol and tobacco as societal problems?
JMHO

[ChiTown]

A buddy of mine finished up the last of his alcohol classes from a DUI yesterday. He called me up to meet him at the bar right after.

I'd guess that at least 40% of the 30 people in my class were alcoholics. I'd also say that 95% of them were the biggest fn losers in the world.....

[morphius]

BTW, when I say I sat in on a Drug and Alcohol class, I actually mean to say that I was sent there to be a part of it due to a DUI. It was 8 hours of my life that I will never get back. If they offered death as an alternative, I might have chosen it.
If that is all you got for a DUI, then I wouldn't complain too much. I know people that have wrecked their car, hit a house, killed someone...

[Inspector]

Give it up.

Too many people make money off it being illegal (law enforcement, prisons, judicial system, etc...)

It will never be legal. And those who insist it should stay illegal are more often than not, making their paycheck from it being illegal.

[ChiTown]

If that is all you got for a DUI, then I wouldn't complain too much. I know people that have wrecked their car, hit a house, killed someone...

Uhh, no, there's more to it than that. Financially, work related, etc., etc. It's the phuggin gift that keeps on giving.

[Skip Towne]

BTW, when I say I sat in on a Drug and Alcohol class, I actually mean to say that I was sent there to be a part of it due to a DUI. It was 8 hours of my life that I will never get back. If they offered death as an alternative, I might have chosen it.
Yeah, I had the pleasure of one of those almost 20 years ago. It was awful. They took roll after every break.

[ChiTown]

That's what you get for getting arrested in Wichita.

Get your DUI in Tempe, AZ next time. You'll at least have some 19 year old ASU eye candy.

LMAO.

Next time? Uhh, let's jut hope there isn't a "next time"..... :)

[Mr. Kotter]

You left out the word legal.

Nope. Legal, or not...if it were profitable and cost-efficient, we'd already be there.

[Baby Lee]

I'd guess that at least 40% of the 30 people in my class were alcoholics. I'd also say that 95% of them were the biggest fn losers in the world.....
You were really jealous of the other 5%, weren't you Chi?

[ChiTown]

You were really jealous of the other 5%, weren't you Chi?

Yes, very much :deevee:

[bringbackmarty]

It is amazing what this plant can do. Im a Christian at heart, and believe that God gave us this bad ass plant to help us out.

* the first Bibles were printed on hemp paper
* the first US flag was made out of hemp
* the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence were printed on hemp paper.
* an acre of hemp produces more than 4 times the amount of paper than an acre of trees, and it grows back in less than a year
* Henry Ford made a hemp-mobile
* "Marijuana" is just the Hispanic name for hemp, they are the exact same plant. (The name, "marijuana", was used by law enforcement and the media for this "Mexican killer weed" to taboo and sensationalize it in concerned American's minds.)
* Birds live 20% longer when hemp seed is a part of their diet
* Hemp seed oil has been used (and should be used) in everything from engine oil and paint, to cosmetics and foods for man and beast alike
* In the 1600s, there were places in the US where growing hemp was enforced by law
* You could pay your taxes with hemp for 200 years during the 1700s in the US
* Hemp seeds have been a staple and a life-saver during many famines and food shortages throughout history (over 60% of Third World children are dying everyday because of protein starvation , but Mr. Government says they can't grow it - it's against the law!)
* There are receptors in the brain which science has found will bind with THC compounds alone, and no other
* The depletion of the ozone layer threatens to reduce soy crops by up to 50%, but hemp is immune to the damages of ultraviolet light (it actually makes it produce more of the resin that contains the THC)
* Hemp is a more prolific producer of ethanol than corn
* Hemp requires little to no industry, it grows in the ground (cleaning the soil of toxins), then is cut, dried, and utilized... (Does it make any sense that the government doesn't jump on this, legalize it and tax the pants off of it instead of increasing everyone’s already-insane taxes to reduce the country's deficit?? Tax pot!)
* And apparently if you set it on fire and inhale the smoke of it, it gives you a euphoric feeling.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every green herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
-Genesis 1:29 -

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
-Abe Lincoln, 1840
damn and all I did with it was smoke the shit.

[Demonpenz]

I am for not legalizing it. I don't want to ruin the fun of sneaking around smoking it taken away from future generations.

[bringbackmarty]

I was our Batallion D & A officer, for two years when I was an officer.

First thing we should do, is cut the charade--let's cut to the chase; medicinal marijuana, and hemp, are attempts by those in favor of legalization to bring in their idea through the back door. Period. It is an elaborate pretense aimed at making it more socially acceptable, and readily available--to get more people "on the bandwagon." Marinol does the job of medicinal marijuana; and hemp simply is, as yet, not an economical or cost effiecient alternative to the items they claim it can be used for--if it were, it would be DONE. We live in a free market, capitalist economy--if hemp were truly profitable and a viable alternative, we'd be there all ready.

Secondly, in Utopia, where citizens are free to make their own choices, and suffer the consequences (or not) of their choices, most of us would agree we should lift the prohibition. However, we don't live in Utopia.

We live in a welfare state, that insists on redistributing wealth to help those who are poor, sick, and otherwise "disadvantaged" (I'm NOT sayin' that's a bad thing; just how willing are "we" to foot the bill for addicts though?) Additional dependency and addiction that would surely result (despite the denials of the Grass Roots, or "High Times" folks) from "legalization" would impose a tremendous financial burden on the rest of society--a burden that most of us would greatly resent.

Guarantee me, that not one additional red cent of taxpayer dollars would be used to address the fall-out from "legalization"--and I'd be on board. Otherwise, why would we want to add another major addiction, another major problem....to join with alcohol and tobacco as societal problems?
JMHO

hey idiot, it already is the number one cash crop in america. It already is a major problem for right wing conservative assholes who would rather push the viagra, marlboro, bud light drugs on kids and adults most indescriminately with the constant media ads. By the way Marinol does not work as well as smoking, because pot that is smoked has cannabiniods that marinol doesn't have. These cannabiniods produce some of the antinausea, pain supressant and antidepressant effects of the medication. The reason it isn't legal. Money. The corporate assholes have alchohol tobacco and the presciption shit so well regulated. If people start spending money first on weed that growing their own weed the corporations see none of that bread. It's all about money and not about anything else.

[Rausch]

Nope. Legal, or not...if it were profitable and cost-efficient, we'd already be there.

:spock:

[Demonpenz]

GIVE EM THE PIVON!

[Hydrae]

I maintain that it will not be legalized until there is a way to field test sobriety. At this time there is no way that I know of to tell if someone driving down the road is under the influence or not.

[Demonpenz]

Draw blood. you can't SAN would be all over that

[MichaelH]

Draw blood.

That's pretty tough to do in the field. At least with alcohol, it can be done right at the scene. I doubt cops would be willing or qualified to draw blood on the spot.

[Braincase]

Marinol does the job of medicinal marijuana; and hemp simply is, as yet, not an economical or cost effiecient alternative to the items they claim it can be used for--if it were, it would be DONE. We live in a free market, capitalist economy--if hemp were truly profitable and a viable alternative, we'd be there all ready.

SD, do you have any idea how easy it is to grow hemp? It grows in the ditches, it grows where you plant it, it grows all over the place in the wild.

The reason hemp is illegal is due to the fact that is was TOO ECONOMICALLY VIABLE. William Randolph Hearst owned huge surplus' of white pine forests in the early part of the 20th century. About that time, machinery was invented that could easily strip hemp for the manufacture of paper, and that would endanger Hearsts near monopoly on wood pulp and the manufacture of newsprint. Hearst created "Reefer Madness" and bought politicians to make it illegal and secure his paper fortune.

As far as making it available, there was a suspension of hemp's illegal nature during WWII, when hemp seed oil, hemp rope and other usable items were manufactured in force. George Bush's life was saved by hemp - his airplane used hemp seed oil as a lubricant, and in that famous shot of him crash landing on an aircraft carrier - those ropes he hooked were made of hemp.

And don't forget that both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew hemp...

Consider yourself pwned.

[Demonpenz]

SAN?

Stoners against needles

[MichaelH]

There's no need to do it in the field.

We were talking about field sobriety. It might work in an urban or suburban area where a hospital is nearby. But what about the country where a hospital is miles and sometimes hours away?

[Demonpenz]

We were talking about field sobriety. It might work in an urban or suburban area where a hospital is nearby. But what about the country where a hospital is miles and sometimes hours away?

Who the hell gets caught smoking weed and driving out in the country.

[CosmicPal]

I maintain that it will not be legalized until there is a way to field test sobriety. At this time there is no way that I know of to tell if someone driving down the road is under the influence or not.

WRONG!!

Sorry, not trying to embarrass you or anything, but the real reason it will not be legalized anytime soon is because we keep raising taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.

As long as the people keep voting for increased taxes on the sins- the government is happy. Therefore, there is no need to legalize hemp.

Ironically, this is where the government should actually see the fact that legalizing hemp would bring in a considerable amount of monies to the government. If people continue to pay up to $10 for a pack of cigarettes, they'll certainly pay $20 for a pack of joints.

Here are the two facts that make this whole mess really sad, in regards to hemp:

1. Hemp plants mature in 4 months! This means a farmer can yeild 3 crops in a single year! Corn and wheat are annuals- therefore, a farmer can only yeild one crop.

2. Lastly, there isn't a human being on this planet that has EVER died from too much marijuana use. Nobody has EVER died from an overdose of marijuana. You cannot speak the same for alcohol and tobacco.

Those two reasons alone are why it should be legal.

[Demonpenz]

doing the eye test making the eye go side to side can show you how impared you are.

[MichaelH]

Who the hell gets caught smoking weed and driving out in the country.


I never got caught, but I grew up in the middle of nowhere. I could see many times where I got awful lucky. The cops didn't worry about violent crimes and car jackings. They were looking for kids and adults out having a good time.

[Skip Towne]

I was our Batallion D & A officer, for two years when I was an officer.

First thing we should do, is cut the charade--let's cut to the chase; medicinal marijuana, and hemp, are attempts by those in favor of legalization to bring in their idea through the back door. Period. It is an elaborate pretense aimed at making it more socially acceptable, and readily available--to get more people "on the bandwagon." Marinol does the job of medicinal marijuana; and hemp simply is, as yet, not an economical or cost effiecient alternative to the items they claim it can be used for--if it were, it would be DONE. We live in a free market, capitalist economy--if hemp were truly profitable and a viable alternative, we'd be there all ready.

Secondly, in Utopia, where citizens are free to make their own choices, and suffer the consequences (or not) of their choices, most of us would agree we should lift the prohibition. However, we don't live in Utopia.

We live in a welfare state, that insists on redistributing wealth to help those who are poor, sick, and otherwise "disadvantaged" (I'm NOT sayin' that's a bad thing; just how willing are "we" to foot the bill for addicts though?) Additional dependency and addiction that would surely result (despite the denials of the Grass Roots, or "High Times" folks) from "legalization" would impose a tremendous financial burden on the rest of society--a burden that most of us would greatly resent.

Guarantee me, that not one additional red cent of taxpayer dollars would be used to address the fall-out from "legalization"--and I'd be on board. Otherwise, why would we want to add another major addiction, another major problem....to join with alcohol and tobacco as societal problems?
JMHO
What a total load of crap. I've NEVER seen pot addiction used as an excuse to outlaw it. Why? Because it is NOT addictive. I started smoking it in '68 and have done it on a daily basis for years and have done totally without it for several years. I challenge you to come up with ANY proof it is addictive.

[teedubya]

I was our Batallion D & A officer, for two years when I was an officer.

First thing we should do, is cut the charade--let's cut to the chase; medicinal marijuana, and hemp, are attempts by those in favor of legalization to bring in their idea through the back door. Period. It is an elaborate pretense aimed at making it more socially acceptable, and readily available--to get more people "on the bandwagon." Marinol does the job of medicinal marijuana; and hemp simply is, as yet, not an economical or cost effiecient alternative to the items they claim it can be used for--if it were, it would be DONE. We live in a free market, capitalist economy--if hemp were truly profitable and a viable alternative, we'd be there all ready.

Secondly, in Utopia, where citizens are free to make their own choices, and suffer the consequences (or not) of their choices, most of us would agree we should lift the prohibition. However, we don't live in Utopia.

We live in a welfare state, that insists on redistributing wealth to help those who are poor, sick, and otherwise "disadvantaged" (I'm NOT sayin' that's a bad thing; just how willing are "we" to foot the bill for addicts though?) Additional dependency and addiction that would surely result (despite the denials of the Grass Roots, or "High Times" folks) from "legalization" would impose a tremendous financial burden on the rest of society--a burden that most of us would greatly resent.

Guarantee me, that not one additional red cent of taxpayer dollars would be used to address the fall-out from "legalization"--and I'd be on board. Otherwise, why would we want to add another major addiction, another major problem....to join with alcohol and tobacco as societal problems?
JMHO


Here is the thing Anton... if you want to smoke weed, you will find a source for accrual of said vice. If you are a heroin addict, you will find some. If you are a teenager, and are curious about it, you will run into someone that has some. Intentions are intentions... they will be doing whatever, regardless.

However, Im not talking about legalization, cuz I could care less. Cuz if I want it, I can find it. Im talking about the global good of this plant . If it didnt have a bud at the top of it, then this plant would be viewed in a whole new light.

If you are worried about welfare society and funding the poor and are against programs like that... no prob. But if hemp was legal, the plant could be used to feed people and cost relatively nothing.

It infuriates me, that when I pack my groceries my choices are in "Paper" [made from 90% virgin wood, or "Plastic" [made from oil and other irreplaceable fossil fuels]. Well Hemp can make both of those.

An acre of hemp can produce as much paper as 4 acres of trees. It takes 20 years to harvest that acre of trees, and 6 months to harvest that acre of hemp.

There is more to the story then just the drug aspect... Im more than certain that it has more to do with all the large corporations that would stand to lose cash if hemp was allowed to prosper. Other industries would become very successful... so until the powers that be can manipulate it so that they can cash in on the hemp revolution, it aint gonna happen. But it certainly should.

It only makes sense.

[Crush]

Some people still receive marijuana courtesy of the United States Government.


http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=249


Federal Rx: Marijuana
BY CHRISTOPHER LARGEN
SOCIETY | 11.11.2002


George McMahon knows he hasn't got much time to live. On this fall day he sits in his truck beside an empty windswept beach and opens a shiny metal canister filled with tightly rolled marijuana cigarettes. McMahon presses a large joint between his wrinkled lips, then lights it. He inhales deeply, holds his breath for a few moments, and then exhales. He grins and mutters, "Seize the day."

He's not in Amsterdam but in rural Texas, home to a prison system renowned for zero-tolerance sentences and assembly-line executions. Even so, he's not concerned about legal repercussions. He can smoke his pot in any state of the union without being prosecuted.

Afflicted with a rare neurological condition, George McMahon, age 51, is the fifth United States citizen to receive legal medical marijuana from the United States Government. He receives 300 joints a month, courtesy of the little-known Compassionate Investigational New Drug Program, run since 1978 by the Food and Drug Administration.

The U.S. has a long history of allowing the use of experimental pharmaceuticals, whether an unproven root bought in a health food store or the once-shunned thalidomide recently given to blood cancer patients like former vice-presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro. Medical marijuana patients suffered a major legal setback in 2001, however, when the US Supreme Court ruled unanimously that "marijuana has no medical benefits worthy of an exception" from the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. The nine justices made no mention of Uncle Sam's own pot farm at the University of Mississippi, nor of the machine-rolled joints sent free of charge to sick people like George.

Despite last year's ruling, ballot-mandated cooperatives continue to provide marijuana to sick and dying citizens in nine states including California, where DEA agents have recently focused efforts to seize records, close clinics, and destroy medical cannabis plants, violating the express will of the citizenry. Public outrage over these intrusive enforcement tactics has been so overwhelming that Santa Cruz officials recently joined local activists to pass out medical marijuana in front of city hall, in direct defiance of federal law. This is the first time in nearly forty years (since the civil rights movement in the 1960s) that federal and state laws are in direct conflict.

George McMahon has strong emotions about the recent headlines from California. "It's like some absurd cosmic joke. I have safe, legal access to my medicine, but my fellow patients are being threatened and jailed. Where's the justice in that?"

For now, George continues to receive marijuana from the federal program because, officially at least, it's considered a research project. In theory, officials are supposed to be collecting data on the therapeutic effectiveness of marijuana, but George says the government agencies have never conducted longitudinal case studies on the legal patients. "I'm just so pleased to be able to use what they send me legally," McMahon says. "To be relieved of some of the pain and still be within the law means so much."

The FDA's "compassionate" approach hasn't been available to many. The agency originally implemented the program under Jimmy Carter, following a lawsuit by Robert Randall, a glaucoma patient who demanded that the government acknowledge the medical necessity of his marijuana use. Randall was soon joined by cancer patients and people with multiple sclerosis or spinal cord injuries, who smoked federal pot for relief from nausea, pain, and muscle spasms.

But as the AIDS epidemic swelled, so did the number of applicants. Overwhelmed officials in the Bush administration stopped accepting applications in 1992, throwing hundreds of requests in the garbage and forcing chronically and terminally ill patients to break the law by seeking their medicine on the black market.

The government agreed, however, to continue supplying the 15 patients, like George, who had already been accepted. Today, only a half-dozen remain.

His pain momentarily quieted, George steps onto the green grass and limps toward the rickety wooden dock that reaches into glistening water. He suffers from a poorly understood genetic condition known as Nail Patella Syndrome. NPS can attack major organs, including the kidney and liver, disrupt the immune system in ways that are difficult to comprehend, and cause bones to be deformed, become brittle, and easily break. It affects the joints, limits mobility, and causes chronic pain, muscle cramps, and spasms. Some NPS patients also have serious immune system complications from the anomalous genetic condition.

George winces slightly as a cool breeze carries a cloud of marijuana smoke toward the lake. Although he's well acquainted with pain, he lived without a concrete diagnosis for many years. As a child George contracted colds and the flu frequently. Muscles in his arms didn't develop normally, and lifting weights didn't help. He was constantly breaking bones, especially in his hands and wrists, and he lost all of his teeth by the time he was 21. He felt exhausted and could stand for only a few minutes without experiencing unbearable pain. Spells of nausea, fever, chills, and night sweats were common for him. He suffered from hepatitis A and B and tuberculosis, and there were times when his pain was constant, whether he was walking, lying down, or sitting up.

Although marijuana does not directly treat Nail Patella Syndrome, the herb has brought McMahon symptomatic relief that he couldn't find in traditional pills, and with fewer side effects. "Before I was accepted to the federal marijuana program, I was taking 17 different pharmaceutical substances. My children remember me sprawled on the living room couch, virtually comatose for days on end. I was in and out of the hospital, sometimes receiving intensive inpatient treatment for months at a time. Since I started smoking marijuana, I've come off of every single prescription drug I was taking. Nowadays most people don't even know that I'm sick unless I tell them," McMahon says. "The marijuana has really been that effective in controlling my pain, spasms, and nausea. I don't need empirical statistics and clinical research. I'm living proof that marijuana works as medicine."

For people like McMahon, the true goalto relieve suffering seems obvious, as does the need to grant relief to all who need it. His medical history includes 19 major surgeries, seven of them performed in one week. Throughout his life, he has been prescribed morphine, Demerol, Codeine, Valium, and other sedating medications. He has been rushed to hospital emergency rooms on at least six occasions with severe drug-induced conditions, including respiratory and renal failure and hallucinations. The medications did little for his chronic pain and spasms, and he was both mentally and physically incapacitated.

Convinced that using small amounts of pot daily helped ease his discomfort without life-threatening side effects, McMahon smoked marijuana illegally for several years. Finally, he tracked down a doctor at the University of Iowa, who took a special interest in helping him get marijuana legally. He put McMahon through an investigation protocol and a spastic pain evaluation. A native Iowan, George then contacted assistants at Senator Charles Grassley's office, and was pleased at their willingness to help.

After yet more tests and stacks of legal paperwork, George received his first shipment of marijuana from the National Institute on Drug Abuse in March 1990. These days, he goes to a designated pharmacy, where he picks up the medicine in the form of joints, stored in a silver tin with a prescription tag. "I’ve been smoking ten joints a day for twelve years, and during that time I haven’t had one surgery or hospitalization. Marijuana literally saved my life."

McMahon keeps his monthly supply with him at all times. As a general rule, he tries to be discreet, in hopes of not offending people or appearing to kids as a recreational pothead. "I cope with the pain," he says. "Some days are better than others, but if I go more than a few hours without my medicine, I can get myself in trouble."

Sometimes, however, he lands in a jam by taking it. McMahon says few cops seem to be aware of the program. On one occasion George and Margaret, his wife of 30 years, were attending a Virginia conference sponsored by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, where he intended to contradict the agency's specious claim that marijuana was addictive. George had meandered away from the main crowd to smoke his medicine, when he was approached by two police officers, one of whom began hitting his fingers, trying to knock the joint out of his hand, yelling at him to put it out.

"He called me a mother ****er, called my wife a ****ing bitch, and told me to shut my ****ing mouth," he says. "They tried to get us to leave by intimidating us. They treated me like a criminal. I am not a criminal. It was one of the worst feelings I've ever had."

Despite the intensity of his daily struggles, McMahon describes himself as a "regular family man who has had to make wide adjustments." His voice and appearance are rugged, the heavy toll of years spent at manual labor, for mining companies and large farming operations. Today, he lives quietly on disability insurance at his modest home in an East Texas gated community, and enjoys spending time with his three adult children and seven grandchildren.

George was given a certificate of heroism for participating in the President's Drug Awareness Program in 1990. The prestigious parchment is signed by former first lady and prohibition advocate Nancy Reagan, and hangs in his home office next to an American flag woven from hemp cloth. McMahon chuckles as he thinks about the dubious honor, saying, "I don’t even know if Nancy knew what she was signing. Maybe she got a little too tipsy during one of those White House cocktail parties."

McMahon is a reluctant hero, and he expresses gratitude to his family, particularly his wife, who has seen firsthand the difference cannabis makes. "If he didn’t receive the marijuana," Margaret says, "George would probably be dead by now from all the pharmaceutical drugs he'd be taking."

In addition to struggling for survival, McMahon is fighting for the decriminalization of medical marijuana. McMahon remains lucid and eloquent as he travels the country, speaking with university students and faculty, legislators, physicians, and law enforcement officials all while smoking 10 joints a day.

The Supreme Court decision to ban state-authorized clinics from distributing medical pot exposes blatant hypocrisy on the part of the federal government. If the Drug Enforcement Administration is correct when they claim that marijuana is a dangerous, addictive drug with no medical value, then why has the US Government been growing and giving it to sick and dying people for 24 years? On the other hand, if cannabis has medical applications, why is the government closing marijuana clinics, criminalizing patients, and overriding the legal autonomy of the states?

At the time of the Supreme Court ruling, few officials expected the federal government to start zealously enforcing the law. Consider the ramifications if officials begin arresting and incarcerating tens of thousands of patients, breaking apart the families of sick and dying people, and using our tax dollars to prosecute and imprison these patients. Politicians want to avoid front-page photos of MS patients with spasmodic arms handcuffed to wheelchairs while relatives sob in the background. Nevertheless, political concerns did not prevent federal agents from recently storm-trooping the Wo/Men's Alliance for Medical Marijuana cooperative, chain sawing 130 cannabis plants, and handcuffing a paraplegic patient at the state-sanctioned garden.

Recent national polls indicate 70 to 80 percent of the public approves of patients having legal access to medical marijuana. Yet when decriminalization advocates push for reform, the government counters that there simply isn't enough research to warrant the reclassification of a potentially dangerous drug. This call for evidence operates in a circular fashion, as the drug laws themselves have prevented the accumulation of much data. Legitimate scientists who seek to perform controlled studies on cannabis face a daunting bureaucratic gauntlet. Additionally, officials have repeatedly ignored the findings of their own commissioned research panels, which argue that marijuana is a relatively safe substance with numerous medical applications.

Meanwhile, as attorneys and pharmaceutical executives play politics and debate where to draw the line, sick and dying people like George McMahon continue to be arrested, and medical marijuana cooperatives are being trampled by federal agents armed with shackles and chainsaws.

George extinguishes his government roach as a blazing marmalade sun descends behind him on the lake. It seems unreasonable to him that our nation locks patients in prison, strips them of their voting rights, confiscates their property, and destroys their families, all because it seeks to eradicate a natural herb that has no fatal side effects, was used medically for thousands of years, and is less harmful and addictive than tobacco or alcohol. "I want people to know that I am just a normal guy," he says. "I'm not an activist, but I do believe that every sick patient in America should be able to make these personal choices without going to jail."

[chiefs4me]

Everybody just light one up and sit back and get ready for the game!!

[Skip Towne]

Everybody just light one up and sit back and get ready for the game!!
What? Are you suggesting we become drug crazed addicts? :p

[teedubya]

well I say we all have a "party" and just not invite SDChiefsFan. heh.

[|Zach|]

Not my style, just never enjoyed it.

[Abba-Dabba]

Legalization of marijuana will never happen. Tolerance is the key. People have to be willing to let people in society to make the decision of their own vices, vices that don't cause harm to others. Hell, speeding in my opinion is putting more lives in danger than someone sitting at home smoking a joint after a long day of work. It isn't even legal in the Netherlands, it will never be legal here in the U.S.. It is tolerated in the Netherlands. There are tolerance laws on marijauna. 5 grams ea. cafe per person, a person can have up to 30 grams on their person. A cafe can have up to 500 grams on stock, anything over than that, a surprise inspection will bring loss of license. A suspended license is almost impossible to reverse. The 500 gram limit isn't the only thing that can suspend a license, someone being under 18yrs of age in their establishment can do the same as well, anyone in the establishment having hard drugs(cocaine, herion, opium, etc.) will bring the same punishment on the owner. Marijuana is just not viewed as a crime worth spending law enforcement time on there. I think the Netherlands has the best policy on marijuana out of every country. Get out of touristy Amsterdam and you can't even tell it is tolerated. It's like a little U.S. with a language that sounds like someone is chewing thumbtacks.

I think we, as Americans tend to think that we are the best and our policies are the best for free society. IMO we could take a lesson from a few countries and the policies they have a adapted for a better, more accepting society for all of us in the U.S.. I remember reading somewhere that even Jesus used a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem in incense and anointing oil. Jesus can't be wrong, can he?

[Mr. Kotter]

hey idiot, it already is the number one cash crop in america. It already is a major problem for right wing conservative assholes who would rather push the viagra, marlboro, bud light drugs on kids and adults most indescriminately with the constant media ads. By the way Marinol does not work as well as smoking, because pot that is smoked has cannabiniods that marinol doesn't have. These cannabiniods produce some of the antinausea, pain supressant and antidepressant effects of the medication. The reason it isn't legal. Money. The corporate assholes have alchohol tobacco and the presciption shit so well regulated. If people start spending money first on weed that growing their own weed the corporations see none of that bread. It's all about money and not about anything else.

Look, reasonable people may diagree...but can I please have links to your very dubious claims.....other than "High Times" or "Grass Roots" though, please.

Thank you? :hmmm:

[Mr. Kotter]

You're just being silly.

If it's illegal to grow a crop, of course it's not going to be profitable to use it for industry.

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

[Mr. Kotter]

SD, do you have any idea how easy it is to grow hemp? It grows in the ditches, it grows where you plant it, it grows all over the place in the wild.

The reason hemp is illegal is due to the fact that is was TOO ECONOMICALLY VIABLE. William Randolph Hearst owned huge surplus' of white pine forests in the early part of the 20th century. About that time, machinery was invented that could easily strip hemp for the manufacture of paper, and that would endanger Hearsts near monopoly on wood pulp and the manufacture of newsprint. Hearst created "Reefer Madness" and bought politicians to make it illegal and secure his paper fortune.

As far as making it available, there was a suspension of hemp's illegal nature during WWII, when hemp seed oil, hemp rope and other usable items were manufactured in force. George Bush's life was saved by hemp - his airplane used hemp seed oil as a lubricant, and in that famous shot of him crash landing on an aircraft carrier - those ropes he hooked were made of hemp.

And don't forget that both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew hemp...

Consider yourself pwned.

Consider myself pwed? A bit arrogant, and condescending, eh? How about reasonable people may disagree???? :shake:

So, seriously....do you only read "High Times" and the "Grass Roots" Newsletter? :shake:

You are gonna blame capitalism turning a blind eye to the economic viability of "hemp" due to the activities of some dude 100 yrs ago. Nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

So the fact that it HAS been used, historically, irrespective of it's "cost effectiveness" or "efficiency" has NOTHING to do with the fact that it remains economically, "unviable?" You need to read, Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations...

Capitalism, free enterprise, the free market??? I'd recommend ....Econ 101, man. :shake:

[Mr. Kotter]

What a total load of crap. I've NEVER seen pot addiction used as an excuse to outlaw it. Why? Because it is NOT addictive. I started smoking it in '68 and have done it on a daily basis for years and have done totally without it for several years. I challenge you to come up with ANY proof it is addictive.

Okay, Jerry Garcia...if you wanna toke; fine. No prob. :thumb:

For some folks, 20% of the public....perhaps, you are one of them, it isn't "physically addicting." However, for the vast majority, it IS at a minimum "psychologically addicting," so for purposes of reality, do you REALLY wanna draw a distinction?

Consider yourself lucky; consider yourself a "privileged" minority. You wanna make social policies based on anecdotal experience? Understandable, but is it wise? :hmmm:

PROOF....you believe what you wanna believe, Jerry. No matter what links and research I pull up, you are gonna pounce on it.

Live Free, my friend. Don't expect the rest of America to thrilled about subsidizing the addiction of your buddies.....and "Dead heads." Fair??? :hmmm:

[Mr. Kotter]

Here is the thing Anton... if you want to smoke weed, you will find a source for accrual of said vice. If you are a heroin addict, you will find some. If you are a teenager, and are curious about it, you will run into someone that has some. Intentions are intentions... they will be doing whatever, regardless.

However, Im not talking about legalization, cuz I could care less. Cuz if I want it, I can find it. Im talking about the global good of this plant . If it didnt have a bud at the top of it, then this plant would be viewed in a whole new light.

If you are worried about welfare society and funding the poor and are against programs like that... no prob. But if hemp was legal, the plant could be used to feed people and cost relatively nothing.

It infuriates me, that when I pack my groceries my choices are in "Paper" [made from 90% virgin wood, or "Plastic" [made from oil and other irreplaceable fossil fuels]. Well Hemp can make both of those.

An acre of hemp can produce as much paper as 4 acres of trees. It takes 20 years to harvest that acre of trees, and 6 months to harvest that acre of hemp.

There is more to the story then just the drug aspect... Im more than certain that it has more to do with all the large corporations that would stand to lose cash if hemp was allowed to prosper. Other industries would become very successful... so until the powers that be can manipulate it so that they can cash in on the hemp revolution, it aint gonna happen. But it certainly should.

It only makes sense.

Hey, man. Reasonable people may disagree without being enemies.

Listen, dude; if you embrace civil disobediance, and are willin' to suffer the consequences of "dissin' da man," fine man. I applaud you. Seriously. Just don't whine if you are arrested, and have to serve time, understand?

So, we ought to nix whatever laws people ignore, eh? Who gets to decide where THAT line is drawn? You, me, or John Ascroft? :hmmm:

Feeding people with hemp? An alternative to other products? Possibly. But as I've suggested with others, you really don't understand capitalism if you think a dude 100 years ago is STILL preventing a viable market alternative. Bottom line, is IF it were a viable alternative, IT WOULD BE EMBRACED. PERIOD. It's not, so pot-heads continue to "whine" about how unfair the laws are, and how unfair life is. :rolleyes:

Large corporations, blah, blah, blah. I swear, IF it were a cost effective and efficient alternative....it would have been embraced years ago. It still may be; just not yet. Who knows, though?

I still contend the push for "hemp" is nothing more than a thinly veiled screen to attempt a back door legalization of the "bud."

And most of us are onto ya, dude. Get over it.... :)

[Ultra Peanut]

it IS at a minimum "psychologically addicting,"So are pornos and video games. Wanna ban those, too?

[Mr. Kotter]

So are pornos and video games. Wanna ban those, too?
Prove similar socio-economic cost, and maybe we'll talk; I doubt you'll prove that though... :p

[Earthling]

I remember watching a film in the Navy (1968 or so) and the jist of the film was that if you smoked pot you could easily end up raping someone because you lost all of your inhibitions and morals...Pure bunk. I've never really trusted what the Feds have to say on the matter every since they lied to me in that film. I know what I have seen first hand and I don't know a single person who ever got addicted to pot. The worst part about pot is that it is illegal. Alchohal used to be too though. I see little difference in the two.

[Boyceofsummer]

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

The last clown with a badass attitude like this was treated to a killer Colombian clandestinely spiked pizza. Boy, was he pissed. The next day.

[Hammock Parties]

This is all very interesting. Of course I've never done drugs. Took a drag on a cigarette once.

[|Zach|]

This is all very interesting. Of course I've never done drugs. Took a drag on a cigarette once.
Sorry to break it to you.

That was a man pipe.

[Hammock Parties]

Sorry to break it to you.

That was a man pipe.

No way....Brad handed me something long, white and skinny. I sucked on it and coughed.

[DenverChief]

Prove similar socio-economic cost, and maybe we'll talk; I doubt you'll prove that though... :p

Obesity and diabetes for video games and television....and I'd bet wankin it so much is why people need enzyte

[Braincase]

Consider myself pwed? A bit arrogant, and condescending, eh? How about reasonable people may disagree???? :shake:

So, seriously....do you only read "High Times" and the "Grass Roots" Newsletter? :shake:

You are gonna blame capitalism turning a blind eye to the economic viability of "hemp" due to the activities of some dude 100 yrs ago. Nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

So the fact that it HAS been used, historically, irrespective of it's "cost effectiveness" or "efficiency" has NOTHING to do with the fact that it remains economically, "unviable?" You need to read, Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations...

Capitalism, free enterprise, the free market??? I'd recommend ....Econ 101, man. :shake:

Facts are facts. Love how you refuted my points one-by-one. You can disagree with the reasoning, but it doesn't change facts.

1. I've never purchased or subscribed to High Times or the Grass Roots newsletter. My information came from "Uncle John's Bathroom Reader".

2. I have read Adam Smith, and several other books by famous economists, including Keynes, Locke and Mill. I've also got about 16 hours worth of Econ on my college transcript. Who's condescending now?

3. When you've run a successful business and pulled 6 figure incomes for more than 5 consecutive years, lecture me about business. Until then, thanks for teaching our kids.

One other point I would like to make. I don't let my children around people that use the "n" word, due it's use as a racist epithet. I don't socialize with people who do. My advice to you is find away to remove it from your vocabulary.

[Abba-Dabba]

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

It's not that it isn't profitable, it is profitable, even profitble to drug dealers on a black market where there isn't a standard price. It's that too many people can grow it for themselves. Thus evading federal taxes. Marijuana as a crop is completely different than tobacco. You can't even compare the 2. You can grow few months supply in a closet, you can even clone it and have the same plant growing for years. So while tobacco needs to be planted in harvested and planted yearly in vast fields to be economically viable, marijuana does not. How would the govt. stop 5 million people growing a higher grade of marijuana in their closets? How would they tax it if they didn't know about it? I am of the firm belief that the only reason that it will remain illegal is that the govt. can't figure out to tax it like they do tobacco and alcohol. It's really sad that our moral decisions made by our govt. depend on how much taxes they could suck out of us and it.

[Skip Towne]

Okay, Jerry Garcia...if you wanna toke; fine. No prob. :thumb:

For some folks, 20% of the public....perhaps, you are one of them, it isn't "physically addicting." However, for the vast majority, it IS at a minimum "psychologically addicting," so for purposes of reality, do you REALLY wanna draw a distinction?

Consider yourself lucky; consider yourself a "privileged" minority. You wanna make social policies based on anecdotal experience? Understandable, but is it wise? :hmmm:

PROOF....you believe what you wanna believe, Jerry. No matter what links and research I pull up, you are gonna pounce on it.

Live Free, my friend. Don't expect the rest of America to thrilled about subsidizing the addiction of your buddies.....and "Dead heads." Fair??? :hmmm:
Nice reply. Typical of a cop spouting BS to back up their position. You won't prove pot is addictive because you can't because it isn't.

[teedubya]

Abraham Lincoln said it best...

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
-Abe Lincoln, 1840

People think they know what is best for us, so they make legislation and make crimes out of things that not crimes.

But regardless, SD... you obviously have some deep seeded anger at this situation. Or you watched "Reefer Madness" as a kid, or your dad was a stoner, or something...

I rarely smoke it, however, I did give a speech on it while at the University of Kansas, and I did get an award for my thorough research and presnetation of the facts.

The reason it became illegal, is NOT because you can smoke it... that is the propaganda they used to make it illegal.

Heart had millions of acres of trees in Washington and Oregon that he intended on using for his newpapers that were located in 50 major markets around America. Easy to sway popular opinion during a depression, when you own so many newspapers... [Today... the media is even more controlled by larger corporations and larger agendas...this is a different story altogether]

Hemp became illegal because of two people...William Randolf Hearst and Lammont Dupont

In the 1920's the Du Pont company developed and patented fuel additives such as tetraethyl lead, as well as the sulfate and sulfite processes for manufacture of pulp paper and numerous new synthetic products such as nylon, cellophane, and other plastics. At the same time other companies were developing synthetic products from renewable biomass resources--especially hemp. The hemp decorticator promised to eliminate much of the need for wood-pulp paper, thus threatening to drastically reduce the value of the vast timberlands still owned by Hearst. Ford and other companies were already promising to make every product from cannabis carbohydrates that was currently currently being made from petroleum hydrocarbons. In response, from 1935 to 1937, Du Pont lobbied the chief counsel of the Treasury Department, Herman Oliphant, for the prohibition of cannabis, assuring him that Du Pont's synthetic petrochemicals (such as urethane) could replace hemp seed oil in the marketplace.

William Randolf Hearst hated minorities, and he used his chain of newspapers to aggravate racial tensions at every opportunity. Hearst especially hated Mexicans. Hearst papers portrayed Mexicans as lazy, degenerate, and violent, and as marijuana smokers and job stealers. The real motive behind this prejudice may well have been that Hearst had lost 800,000 acres of prime timberland to the rebel Pancho Villa, suggesting that Hearst's racism was fueled by Mexican threat to his empire.

Heart pictured the black jazz musicians as whacked out "free-thinkers" who had no respect for the law, and people who were thinking that they were "equal"...they needed to be put in their place, and the mexicans stealing our jobs... those lazy marihuana smokers...

It has all ONLY been propaganda, and as a result we have depleted our resources, and continue to do so, at an alarming rate.

The fact that you can smoke it, is of relatively small consequence.

[Saulbadguy]

Question 1: WTF happened to GoChiefs rep?

Statement 1: I'm a fairly simple man. My simple mind tells me if alchohol is legal, there is no reason mary jane should be illegal.

I don't condone the activity of smoking it, and its something I would never do, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be legalized.

[Hammock Parties]

Question 1: WTF happened to GoChiefs rep?
.

It goes up and down. No biggie.

[teedubya]

Yeah, I think internet message boards should be illegal. They arent profitable, and highly addictive with many people developing psychological dependence on said vice...

[Braincase]

I find it interesting that the same argument for keeping hemp illegal isn't used against alcohol. Hemp doesn't contain THC, yet it's illegal. To compare to alcohol, it would be like making methyl alcohol illegal because ethyl alcohol is an addictive intoxicant.

[MOhillbilly]

I smoked for a longass time and quit coldturkey.Mornin, noon and night.
I liked to party.:thumb:

[chiefs4me]

you boys will argue over anything won't u,,,,,

[Mr. Kotter]

Too bad the search function is down, because we've been down this road before....we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

I spent six weeks in a D&A school for the Army. If you wanna slough off that as government subsidized propaganda, fine; you've got your propaganda, I've got mine....there are plenty of dueling studies and research out there for you to google. I have neither the time, nor the desire to rehash something like this that has been beaten to death.

Hemp is legal/acceptable in many coutries, and in many parts of the world. Yet there is no thriving, booming, or enormously profitable business that has paper, textile, or other potential hemp competitive businesses "on the run"? If it were so profitable and so "right," why is that?

And that's all I have to say on the subject. Thanks. :)

[Eleazar]

:rolleyes:

[chiefs4me]

What? Are you suggesting we become drug crazed addicts? :p


Yes you wanna join me?? Your not that far away.:thumb:

[Mr. Kotter]

It had been a few months. It was time to do it again.

Excuse me... I have to go start a "What does your username mean?" thread.

Nah, how about a MOCK DRAFT thread? :hmmm:
:p

[teedubya]

SD spent 6 weeks being indoctrinated in the Army. It is understandable, that he would soak up everything as complete fact. The Army had massive backlash with Vietnam soldiers toking it up. They certainly didnt want that activity moving forward.

For those of you with minds for yourself... read this book.

http://www.jackherer.com/emperor_book.gif

available for free...

http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html

[Straight, No Chaser]

It is amazing what this plant can do. Im a Christian at heart, and believe that God gave us this bad ass plant to help us out.


I wish it would've helped my memory.


--->

[Mr. Kotter]

SD spent 6 weeks being indoctrinated in the Army. It is understandable, that he would soak up everything as complete fact. The Army had massive backlash with Vietnam soldiers toking it up. They certainly didnt want that activity moving forward.

For those of you with minds for yourself... read this book.

http://www.jackherer.com/emperor_book.gif

available for free...

http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html

You know, I try not to get personal here....unless someone else does it first, or unless I've been drinking sometimes...

Indoctrinated? Please. I grew up around the stuff, in the ghetto. I smoked the stuff back in the day... Of course, I didn't accept what the Army said as fact. FWIW, it was actually offered through the University of Colorado, and had nothing to do with the Army. To insinuate I haven't looked at the issue with a critical eye, by analyzing the dueling studies and research is a bit presumptious of you.

If THAT book is the source of your info, I understand where you are coming from though. Finally, I'd suggest you take your own advice, and search for a mind for yourself....unless you, like I have, looked at both sides of the debate. If you honestly have, and you've interpreted the research and studies differently than I do. Fine. No worries. We'll just have to disagree, but don't pretend to be the final authority on the subject. And neither will I.

[Braincase]

You know, I try not to get personal here....unless someone else does it first, or unless I've been drinking sometimes...

Sometimes you crack me up.

[teedubya]

You know, I try not to get personal here....unless someone else does it first, or unless I've been drinking sometimes...

Indoctrinated? Please. I grew up around the stuff, in the ghetto. I smoked the stuff back in the day... Of course, I didn't accept what the Army said as fact. FWIW, it was actually offered through the University of Colorado, and had nothing to do with the Army. To insinuate I haven't looked at the issue with a critical eye, by analyzing the dueling studies and research is a bit presumptious of you.

If THAT book is the source of your info, I understand where you are coming from though. Finally, I'd suggest you take your own advice, and search for a mind for yourself....unless you, like I have, looked at both sides of the debate.

saying you are indoctrinated is not making it personal. I have called you no names... not been rude. This book is just one of the many that i have read one this subject. When I starte this thread, it wasnt to get into it with anyone... just to perhaps open the minds of some of the people who dont even know hemp can do anything good.

Since gas/fuel is near $2 a gallon, and if we could mass produce hempseed oil for fuel in cars, at say $.50 a gallon, I would sure be interested, wouldnt you? Well, I have read it would be around $.25 a gallon... plus all of the farmers could make some serious cash, not only from fuel but from all of the other uses.

Our farmers have been decimated, and our industry and manufacturing jobs are moving over seas super fast like... superspeedy... so, we need to make a change somewhere to avoid becoming completely bankrupt...

my guess is with an oil loving president with strong historically familial ties to the oil industry, I sincerely doubt any movement toward biomass fuels will happen for awhile, and it is indeed quite sad.

[Mr. Kotter]

Sometimes you crack me up.

Are you referring to your pwning of me in this thread earlier? :hmmm:

Or something else? :p

[Mr. Kotter]

BC, or Ali???

How about the question I posed? :hmmm:

Hemp is legal/acceptable in many coutries, and in many parts of the world. Yet there is no thriving, booming, or enormously profitable business that has paper, textile, or other potential hemp competitive businesses "on the run"? If it were so profitable and so "right," why is that?

:shrug:

[Abba-Dabba]

I find it interesting that the same argument for keeping hemp illegal isn't used against alcohol. Hemp doesn't contain THC, yet it's illegal. To compare to alcohol, it would be like making methyl alcohol illegal because ethyl alcohol is an addictive intoxicant.

BC, industrial hemp(cannabis ruderalis) does contain a very small amount of THC. But it is so small only a fool would try to get high on it. Maybe that's why SD is so against it's uses. He tried to get high and couldn't.

IMO there has been a set back in industrial hemp. People have been working on making he psychoactive properties of cannabis ruderalis more psychoactive. This IMO will set back the industrial hemp gains another 20yrs. IMO in order for industrial hemp to be legal to grow for it's uses on a broad spectrum, the psychoactive properties have to remain low enough that no one wants to get high on it. I've already come to the conclusion that cannabis sativa and cannabis indica will never be legal in this country. But there still is hope for cannabis ruderalis.

[Abba-Dabba]

http://www.jackherer.com/emperor_book.gif

I've had Jack Herer, or it had me. Still don't know which yet.

[gblowfish]

The reason it isn't legal. Money. The corporate assholes have alchohol tobacco and the presciption shit so well regulated. If people start spending money first on weed that growing their own weed the corporations see none of that bread. It's all about money and not about anything else.That's what I think too. I think the three main reasons its not legal is:

1) Tobacco Industry
2) Liquor Industry
3) Pharmaceutical Industry

I'm not a smoker, but that's the way I see it. BTW: Tobacco is addictive as hell, but I guess too many folks like to have a smoke right after church to make it illegal. Did I say that out loud? :hmmm:

[Mr. Kotter]

BC, industrial hemp(cannabis ruderalis) does contain a very small amount of THC. But it is so small only a fool would try to get high on it. Maybe that's why SD is so against it's uses. He tried to get high and couldn't. ...

FWIW, if I wanted to get high, safely and legally....I guarantee you, I could. I'm not into addictive manic-depressive behavior, though. I'm past that....for the most part, anyway. :p

[KCTitus]

Actually, Tobacco is not as regulated as one might think...that was part of the whole fracas between the FDA and the Tobacco companies in the 90's.

Second, if you think Phillip Morris or RJR wouldnt take over the production and distrubtion from tobacco to marijuana in a heartbeat, you're fooling yourself.

[Mr. Kotter]

....Second, if you think Phillip Morris or RJR wouldnt take over the production and distrubtion from tobacco to marijuana in a heartbeat, you're fooling yourself.

A great point, often lost on the legalization crowd.... :thumb:

:hmmm:

[Saulbadguy]

Actually, they should keep pot illegal so they keep producing quality stoner movies. What fun would stoner movies be if pot was legal?

[Abba-Dabba]

FWIW, if I wanted to get high, safely and legally....I guarantee you, I could. I'm not into addictive manic-depressive behavior, though. I'm past that....for the most part, anyway. :p

Safely? :spock: What makes marijuana less safe than alcohol? I bet I can smoke a pound of marijuana with a vaporizer and have less ill effects than if I drank a case of beer or a fifth of grain alcohol, or hell a pack of cigerettes for that matter. How many times have you heard of someone dieing from marijuana poisoning? I haven't heard not one. Now how many times have you heard of someone dieing from alcohol poisoning, or nicotine poisoning. If it was about safety, alcohol, tobacco, cars would be illegal.

[Mr. Kotter]

I dunno about that... I always assumed that if pot were legal big tobacco would be all over packaging and selling marijuana cigarettes.

But, then again, I'm a weirdo.

Man, that would be so sweet... stroll down to the corner Circle K... pick up a pack of Camel Spliffs.

The comment that Saggy made earlier about being able to grow your own weed, and thus taxation being a problem, is true... but, I think there's plenty of lazy potheads like me who would weigh their options...

Hmm... I could grow my own shit.. go to all this damn work... or, I could walk down to Circle K and drop $10.

A little revenue could be generated.

I agree....really. If we ever do legalize, regulate it and tax the crap out of it. :thumb:

Because while no one dies of a THC overdose, directly....to argue there are no personal or social "costs" associated with it is naive, IMO. I guarantee we'd be paying a helluva a lot of taxes toward "compassion" for potheads.

[Saulbadguy]

I agree....really. If we ever do legalize, regulate it and tax the crap out of it. Because while no one dies of a THC overdose, directly....to argue there are no personal or social "costs" associated with it is naive, IMO.
No thanks. I'll just buy a couple of bottles of cough medicine.

[Abba-Dabba]

I agree....really. If we ever do legalize, regulate it and tax the crap out of it. :thumb:

Because while no one dies of a THC overdose, directly....to argue there are no personal or social "costs" associated with it is naive, IMO. I guarantee we'd be paying a helluva a lot of taxes toward "compassion" for potheads.

You mean like the social costs of alcohol and tobacco? The drunk drivers, the deaths they cause. And the medicare recipent sitting on a hospital bed dying of lung cancer or emphysema? Those social costs?

Everything has a social cost, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, the cars we drive, garlic.

If you answer only one question answer me this. Was Jesus wrong for using cannabis as incense and also in anointing oil?

[Abba-Dabba]

I will not stand idly by and listen to you slander garlic!

ROFL

I think I'll have some garlic salad for lunch.

[Mr. Kotter]

You mean like the social costs of alcohol and tobacco? The drunk drivers, the deaths they cause. And the medicare recipent sitting on a hospital bed dying of lung cancer or emphysema? Those social costs?

Everything has a social cost, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, the cars we drive, garlic.

If you answer only one question answer me this. Was Jesus wrong for using cannabis as incense and also in anointing oil?

Everything you say is true; so what? Why would we want to compound the problems of alcohol and drugs with a third problem?" Frankly, sad to say....social acceptance of alcohol and tobacco has as much to do with majority acceptance as anything; marajuana is not yet, socially accepted by a majority of folks.

If you want your opening, that is it; afterall, majority rules, right? Actually, that's precisely what industrial hemp and medicinal marajuan are all about---lulling the masses into complacency and acceptance. Except that some of us are onto the ruse. :)

Jesus, using cannabis? So what? I don't understand how someone using in that way 2000 years ago, is relevant in a time when "legalization" today would have significant implications that, heretofore, society has chosen to try to avoid....

JMHO, though; and you are entitled to your own. :)
:)

[Braincase]

I don't understand how someone using in that way 2000 years ago, is relevant in a time when "legalization" today would have significant implications that, heretofore, society has chosen to try to avoid....

Did he just say Jesus isn't relevant? ROFL

[Abba-Dabba]

Everything you say is true; so what? Why would we want to compound the problems of alcohol and drugs with a third problem?" Frankly, sad to say....social acceptance of alcohol and tobacco has as much to do with majority acceptance as anything; marajuana is not yet, socially accepted by a majority of folks.

If you want your opening, that is it; afterall, majority rules, right? Actually, that's precisely what industrial hemp and medicinal marajuan are all about---lulling the masses into complacency and acceptance. Except that some of us are onto the ruse. :)

Jesus, using cannabis? So what? I don't understand how someone using in that way 2000 years ago, is relevant in a time when "legalization" today would have significant implications that, heretofore, society has chosen to try to avoid....

JMHO, though; and you are entitled to your own. :)
:)

I don't see the majority being a drunk. We have to accept drunks, right? After all it isn't illegal to be a drunk with a bottle in your hand. But it is illegal to be a pothead with a joint in your hand. Social acceptance of alcohol has more to do with it be ingrained in our head as being more acceptable mood altering substance. Just because it is legal doesn't make it better for us, or better for society. Alot of things aren't socially accepted, but still legal. Farting or burping in public isn't socially accepted, but it's legal. Being rude isn't socially acceptable, but it's legal. The list can go on and on.

In a classical sense, yes, majority does rule. But in another, the majority might not be right. WOuld you rather be right or would you rather let majority win everytime, right or wrong whatever the case may be?

I'm not for sure but I'm fairly confident of calling you a Christian. DO you follow your lord and saviors teachings, or do you follow those ministers teachings that has been brought before you? Whose teachings are more almighty, Jesus's or a minister of a local church? Who do you follow? As far as you not caring about what your lord and savior taught 2000yrs ago. Who the hell cares about a policy Harry Anslinger drove to the forefront 80yrs ago and it still being enforced today? Using your logic, both would be irrelevent, right? CYA after lunch.

[teedubya]

BC, or Ali???

How about the question I posed? :hmmm:



:shrug:


And due to the fact that the US poses sanctions on such countries the ability of it to thrive is severely limited. Hemp products being imported into America are a highly tariffed product, which is the reason a ream of Hemp paper costs us like $40. It certainly doesnt cost much to make.

People didnt have any prob with hemp/marijane until the proganda and fear of the depression-ridden 30's. That is the ONLY reason it is unacceptable in society today, because of well executed propaganda. It still works today, in other areas of humanity. Orange Alert anyone?

[teedubya]

if prohibition of alcohol had continued, we wouldnt be having the advantages of alcohol thread... cuz there is no products you can make from it.

We would however, have closet drinkers living it up in speakeasys around the countryside... with hidden distilleries making moonshine, illegally.

Prohibition of alcohol was the precedent and case study for the prohibition of marijuana... compound that with the Great Depression and the mass hysteria of fear... and we have what we have today.

People talkin about how society doesnt deem its worthiness, nor the plant having any legitimate merit other than smoking... however, SMOKING IT IS THE LAST REASON to make hemp legal.

[teedubya]

http://www.hemptech.com/links/index.shtml

companies that make shit from hemp...

Categories:

* Automotive Industry (4)
* Bags and Luggage (20)
* Body Care (61)
* Clothing (99)
* Construction (14)
* Cordage (15)
* Food (53)
* Growing (31)
* Home Bath Furnishings (5)
* Home Bedroom Furnishings (12)
* Home Dining Room Furnishings (5)
* Home Kitchen Furnishings (4)
* Home Living Room Furnishings (13)
* Home Miscellaneous Furnishings (7)
* Investments (5)
* Miscellaneous (24)
* Paper (19)
* Pet Care and Livestock (6)
* Plastics (2)
* Publications (25)
* Raw Materials (42)
* Related (5)
* Retail (119)
* Sports (4)
* Textiles (46)
* Toys (4)
* Trade and Professional Groups (100)

over 10,000 different products... and not one of the products are marijuana cigarettes...

[Lightning Rod]

I don't know if you could smoke enough industrial hemp to actually get high. It being illeagle for industrial use is just friggin dumb.

:bong:
As far as smoking the kind of pot that gets a person high, well that makes people eat cookie dough. Not really a big problem if you ask me.

[Mr. Kotter]

Did he just say Jesus isn't relevant? ROFL

Nice. Almost rep... ROFL

[Lightning Rod]

It made me eat White Castles.


Now that is just not safe :Lin:

[teedubya]

That's what I think too. I think the three main reasons its not legal is:

1) Tobacco Industry
2) Liquor Industry
3) Pharmaceutical Industry

I'm not a smoker, but that's the way I see it. BTW: Tobacco is addictive as hell, but I guess too many folks like to have a smoke right after church to make it illegal. Did I say that out loud? :hmmm:

nail on the head take right there folks. Add the Oil Industry and you have the complete deal... These four industries happen to be major lobbyist players in Washington... Coinkydink?

[Mr. Kotter]

And due to the fact that the US poses sanctions on such countries the ability of it to thrive is severely limited. Hemp products being imported into America are a highly tariffed product, which is the reason a ream of Hemp paper costs us like $40. It certainly doesnt cost much to make.

People didnt have any prob with hemp/marijane until the proganda and fear of the depression-ridden 30's. That is the ONLY reason it is unacceptable in society today, because of well executed propaganda. It still works today, in other areas of humanity. Orange Alert anyone?

Link, please? Seriously. I'd be interested to see...

I see it's a "conspiracy" then?

You wear a tinfoil hat too, do you?

[Mr. Kotter]

I don't know if you could smoke enough industrial hemp to actually get high. It being illeagle for industrial use is just friggin dumb.

:bong:
As far as smoking the kind of pot that gets a person high, well that makes people eat cookie dough. Not really a big problem if you ask me.

Policing industrial hemp, versus marajuana.....might get a wee tad complex for the authorities, yes? :hmmm:

Not that that would be the precise intent, or anything, eh? :)

[Mr. Kotter]

...., because of well executed propaganda....

That cuts BOTH ways....

Comprede?

Should we compare the credibility of the "propagandists" on the two sides of this issue? :)

[teedubya]

well what is to debate pertaining to propagandists?

are you saying the 10,000 products that can be made from hemp is a lie? Or that the fact that the plant is so versatile is inconsequential.

i really didnt think someone would debate all of the many uses of this plant... with "yeah its addictive, so what if it can solve the worlds energy problems, deforestation problems, and resource depletion problems...it doesnt matter because people are out there smoking it, and getting high..."

Man made God's plant illegal... so its a crime, so it must be bad, cuz man said so.

[teedubya]

by the way, when do you actually teach your class? You have a wireless internet connection at your desk or what? You are always here... Id say... almost 'addicted' psychologically to Chiefsplanet... :hmmm:

[Hydrae]

Just a quick comment than I am off to read that Jack Herer book...

As to social costs and how to pay for them. Not only is there the potential tax income but what about no longer spending millions (billions?) on trying to fight marijuana production here and abroad? That portion alone would probably be more than enough to cover any additional social costs from stoners not being able to be complete contributing members of society (not that I believe that, I think I am a decent contributor to society and smoke rather than drink).

[teedubya]

Just a quick comment than I am off to read that Jack Herer book...

As to social costs and how to pay for them. Not only is there the potential tax income but what about no longer spending millions (billions?) on trying to fight marijuana production here and abroad? That portion alone would probably be more than enough to cover any additional social costs from stoners not being able to be complete contributing members of society (not that I believe that, I think I am a decent contributor to society and smoke rather than drink).

absolutely, this is an area that has yet to be discussed... how many BILLIONS is spent on this "War" on Drugs? A war that is being won by people using drugs... everytime you toke... heh. fight the good fight... ROFL.

Anyway, SDchiefsfan mentioned all of the programs that would have to be implemented for drug addicts if marijuana was legal... well I think that since the Rehab locations are already in place, I doubt it would be that much... hell, use some of the "War" on Drugs money for any programs, and use the rest for education...

[Lightning Rod]

Policing industrial hemp, versus marajuana.....might get a wee tad complex for the authorities, yes? :hmmm:

Not that that would be the precise intent, or anything, eh? :)


Actually I think that both should be legal so that wouldn't be an issue. But if you were to legalize industrial and keep the recreational hemp illegal, I don't think it would be real difficult to test the THC content from time to time to make sure it was not of any recreational value.

This is a quote from Michael Badnarik that is close to my thoughts on the stupidity of the war on drugs.


"In the 2000 campaign for president, George W. Bush said that the federal government should not interfere with the medical marijuana policies of the several states. Like so many other promises, he went back on his word and has closed down medical marijuana facilities permitted by state governments.

This is an outrage. The federal government has no constitutional authority to interfere with state drug policies. When the federal government outlawed alcohol, it required a constitutional amendment to do so. Nonetheless it has assumed the legal authority to wage its "War on Drugs."

According to nearly every scientific study on the subject, including ones conducted by the government, medical marijuana provides unique relief to patients suffering from cancer, AIDS, glaucoma and other illnesses, and the drug does not have the same addictive properties as alcohol.

The federally approved Marinol contains the psychoactive THC but lacks other cannabinoids crucial to marijuana as an effective medicine. This is one of the many insanities of federal drug policy, which categorizes a plant that has never been shown to kill anyone as more illegal than cocaine, and certainly more illegal than alcohol.

Though smoking marijuana just as smoking tobacco can cause harm to the lungs and respiratory system, the drug can also be ingested and vaporized so as to prevent such unwanted side effects.

On a fundamental level, Libertarians believe that it is the unalienable and constitutional right of individuals to medicate themselves and choose for themselves what to put into their bodies, as long as they live up to the consequences of their actions. The federal government has no proper say in the matter, and state governments violate the rights of the people in their own attempts to enforce morality. The decision to ingest, smoke or consume any drug should be up to the individual, under the advice of his or her physician, when appropriate. Locking people up for trying to relieve their pain is cruel and unusual punishment for an act that hurts no one.

The Drug War has led to some of the worst violations of the constitutional liberties of Americans, as well as to the worst wave of violent crime in American history since Alcohol Prohibition. It has been used to rationalize unlawful searches and seizures, corruption of the court system, no-knock raids, racial profiling, and "civil asset forfeiture" a policy whereby government officials can confiscate private property without even charging anyone with a crime. The War on Drugs, more than anything else, has served as a means of destroying the Bill of Rights. It has also led to excessive taxes and spending, costing more than 40 billion dollars a year to arrest, prosecute and imprison non-violent drug offenders.

Drug Prohibition has caused gang warfare and other violent crime by raising the prices of drugs so much that vicious criminals enter the market to make astronomical profits, and addicts rob and steal to get money to pay the inflated prices for their drugs. On average, drug prisoners spend more time in federal prison than rapists, who often get out on early release because of the over-crowding in prison caused by the Drug War. While violent criminals can usually have their sentences reduced, drug offenders are subject to "mandatory minimums," which strip away judicial discretion and force judges to put users and dealers in prison for decades. This has to stop.

The Drug War also has funded terrorists; providing them with opportunities for enormous profits, and even by giving foreign aid to such regimes as the Taliban as long as they promised to have "tough drug" policies.

The Drug War does not curb demand, it barely reduces supply, however it makes America much more dangerous and much less free."

[teedubya]

Money Spent on the War On Drugs this Year:

17,766,587,800 Federal
17,966,621,429 State
35,733,209,229 Total

The U.S. federal government spent $19.179 billion dollars in 2003 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

State and local governments spent at least another 20 billion.

People Arrested for Cannabis Law Offenses this Year

659,423

In 2000, 46.5 percent of the 1,579,566 total arrests for drug law violations were for cannabis -- a total of 734,497. Of those, 646,042 people were arrested for possession alone. This is an increase over 1999, when a total of 704,812 Americans were arrested for cannabis offenses, of which 620,541 were for possession alone.

Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

[teedubya]

well if Im not mistaken... Marijuana is a category 2 whereas Cocaine is a category 3 or 4 along with heroin. Im not certain about that, but each category apparently has a stronger sentence attached to it.

I may be wrong.

[teedubya]

Perhaps this is what you're talking about, Ali.



http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_fed_sched.shtml

I wasn't aware cocaine could be prescribed. Figured it was sched I, too. Learn something new every day.


wow. that is unreal that heroin, lsd, and marijuana are all considered the same thing in the eyes of the law. Unreal.

[KCWolfman]

Good God, you guys have ran the gamet on this thread.

#1. Hemp is not illegal all around the world. Why is it that nations who have it legalized have not financially benefitted substantially over those who have not?

#2. Legalize the production of industrial hemp. I just don't think it is the life saver that it is proposed in this thread. I do know that it burns up the soil as quickly as tobacco does and that it cannot be grown in the mass proposed by the author. The fact that industrial hemp is high in CBD keeps it from being a decent drug anyway. You would get more stoned drinking a bottle of cough syrup. The "Marihuana Tax Act" of 1937 just lumped the High CBD in with the High THC styles of Cannabis. It was wrong but it has hurt no one financially. Just a stupid mistake.

#3. Some of those statements originally made are just too damned farfetched to believe without legitimate links. I can find all kinds of sites that state Betsy Ross sewed flags from hemp and that Henry Ford created vehicles that ran on hemp, but they are all marijuanashouldbelegal.com and hempisit.com. Snopes does not even acknowledge or deny these stories. Yes, foods like semientiatka (a hemp seed soup) are eaten ritually once a year, but most nutrionists state it cannot be a food staple, it has no more food benefits than bird seed.

[Lightning Rod]

Huh? How is pot "more illegal" than cocaine?

For that matter, how is anything more illegal than something else? Isn't that kinda like a person being more dead than someone else?

don't have a clue on that one? It made no sense to me either. I just agree with the overal Philosophy of the piece.

[Mr. Kotter]

I don't see the majority being a drunk. We have to accept drunks, right? After all it isn't illegal to be a drunk with a bottle in your hand. But it is illegal to be a pothead with a joint in your hand. Social acceptance of alcohol has more to do with it be ingrained in our head as being more acceptable mood altering substance. Just because it is legal doesn't make it better for us, or better for society. Alot of things aren't socially accepted, but still legal. Farting or burping in public isn't socially accepted, but it's legal. Being rude isn't socially acceptable, but it's legal. The list can go on and on.

In a classical sense, yes, majority does rule. But in another, the majority might not be right. WOuld you rather be right or would you rather let majority win everytime, right or wrong whatever the case may be?

I'm not for sure but I'm fairly confident of calling you a Christian. DO you follow your lord and saviors teachings, or do you follow those ministers teachings that has been brought before you? Whose teachings are more almighty, Jesus's or a minister of a local church? Who do you follow? As far as you not caring about what your lord and savior taught 2000yrs ago. Who the hell cares about a policy Harry Anslinger drove to the forefront 80yrs ago and it still being enforced today? Using your logic, both would be irrelevent, right? CYA after lunch.

This isn't "fair." But it IS illegal. If you don't like it, change the law.

Is society, ignoring the "fallout" of use right or wrong?

As Christians, of course we attempt to emulate Christ first. Use it like Jesus, fine. Did Jesus smoke it too? I'm curious. :hmmm:

You honestly think the only reason it's still illegal, is what happened early in the twentieth century? If so, why not see if you can change it.

The issue will ultimately be decided on merit; whichever side that loses will be able to remonstrate sour grapes if they wish, I suppose.

[Lightning Rod]

"Henry Ford created vehicles that ran on hemp"


I'm rolling along in the hempmobile ROFL

[teedubya]

regardless of how dangerous doing drugs are to the individual doing the drugs... the act of OBTAINING the drugs from the drug dealers is far more dangerous. Ask anyone in South Central LA... Black Market Drugs are big business, if they werent illegal, a vast amount of criminals in teh prison systems wouldnt be there today.

but...heh. we have veered off of the path of the wonderfulness that is hemp. All around it is a benefit to humanity... regardless of the propaganda you choose to adhere to.

[KCWolfman]

but...heh. we have veered off of the path of the wonderfulness that is hemp. All around it is a benefit to humanity... regardless of the propaganda you choose to adhere to.

I wonder why Amsterdam is not the richest spot in the world for their production of the material? Or Sri lanka, or Brazil, or Nairobi, etc etc etc.

It is nothing more than a rope and rough paper. It is a cheap substitute, but hardly the wherewithal answer to economy, food, and energy as alluded to in this thread.

[Ultra Peanut]

3. When you've run a successful business and pulled 6 figure incomes for more than 5 consecutive years, lecture me about business. Until then, thanks for teaching our kids.ROFL

[Lightning Rod]

This seems to back up some of the claims. I Don't know who the hell the Planet Ark people are. They Might just be a bunch of pot heads.



http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/14902




National Recycling Week

Planet Ark Home

Our UK Home Page





FEATURE - British hemp industry sees bright future - at last
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



UK: March 7, 2002


LONDON - Britain's hemp producers feel that after years of battling bureaucracy they may finally be on the brink of a boom - and can count Queen Elizabeth among their customers.


Industrial hemp saw its main markets dry up a century ago even before being banned as a member of the cannabis family, but was once so crucial to the navy that King Henry VIII made it a compulsory crop to safeguard supplies for making sails and rope.
"We've felt a little bit tied up in bureaucracy. We're getting there but we've had to fight every inch of the way," said Ian Low, director of Hemcore, the biggest UK hemp company.

Industrial hemp was banned until 1993 even though it contains a mere 0.2 percent of THC, the main active ingredient of the narcotic.

Hemp growers still need a licence to farm it, and have had trouble separating public perception of it from the its narcotic relative.

"It's a real industry...and we don't want it hijacked by the marijuana brigade," said Low.

Producers argue that its environmental benefits and commercial opportunities could help wildlife and revitalise farming and, although its original uses in paper and cloth are now small-scale in Britain, new technologies could employ it in a whole range of applications.


HEMP FOR HORSES

Hemcore recently gained the prestigious Royal Warrant for its hemp horse-bedding after five years of supplying it to the queen's stables, but sees a potentially more important use in the car industry.

Industry figures show car makers used 10,000 tonnes of plant fibre - including hemp - in 2001. It acts as an insulator against sound and cold in door and roof panels.

Hemcore already supplies hemp to German car makers BMW and Mercedes, and estimates demand could be in the hundreds of the thousands of tonnes by the end of the decade.

"We could see it building up very rapidly over the next couple of years," Low said.

Government figures show 2,500 hectares were grown in Britain in 2001. This is still minute compared to the approximately two million hectares of wheat but Hemcore alone is planning to increase the area devoted to hemp by half this year.

Germany grows a similar area, while France grows more than twice as much, Low said.

Others in the industry say a hemp boom could benefit the rural economy and help it to climb out of the slump caused by the BSE and foot-and-mouth animal diseases.

"It could revitalise the farming economy," said Derek Bielby of the Yorkshire-based Hemp Union, which makes hemp clothing and products, and grows and processes its own crop.


PAPER AND CLOTH

Although it formed the paper for such famous documents as the Magna Carta, the first King James Bible and a draft of the U.S. constitution, the only hemp paper you're likely to notice now is - appropriately enough - large cigarette papers.

Its other traditional use was in cloth - hemp gave the fibre for the first U.S. flag as well as the British navy's sails and ropes - but despite a few fashionable users like Giorgio Armani, it is generally considered too rough a fabric.

But processors have branched out, and its construction uses extend beyond just keeping heat in and noise out of cars. The Suffolk Housing Council finished two houses made largely of hemp last year, and is monitoring how they perform.

Richard Scales, a partner at the architects' firm that designed the houses, said tests were proving positive.

"Preliminary results show that it's actually using less energy than traditional houses," he said.

Scales said the hemp/lime mix acts as bricks, insulation and water-proofing in one, and although it is still very much on the fringes of building practice, he expected it to become more mainstream.

Sarah Yearsley of Sussex-based hemp food firm MotherHemp said the seeds were another key element of the crop, as they contained all the essential fatty acids used by the body as building blocks for proteins.


GREEN GRASS

But growers and users of hemp point mainly to the crop's environmental credentials as its chief advantage.

The National Farmers Union (NFU) say the crop is ideal for cleaning up the soil as part of a rotation - its long roots help to condition the soil when it has been damaged by other crops, and to break up hard-packed earth.

The NFU's Paul Obbett said hemp cultivation was still small-scale but becoming significant.

"As we become more environmentally choosy, the market for these things will grow," he said.

Bielby said the crop is hardy, can be grown anywhere and outgrows weeds - in fact, in many countries it grows as a weed.

"It doesn't need pesticides and herbicides," he said. "This is a golden opportunity for farmers to use a sustainable resource."



Story by Oliver Bullough


REUTERS NEWS SERVICE

[Mr. Kotter]

by the way, when do you actually teach your class? You have a wireless internet connection at your desk or what? You are always here... Id say... almost 'addicted' psychologically to Chiefsplanet... :hmmm:
ROFL

Close, maybe. Maybe I should seek therapy. :p

I teach five 50 minute periods each day; I use about 1-2 hours planning and grading (after twelve years, I'm pretty efficient.)

Out of a 9 or 9.5 hour day, that leaves about 2.5-3 hours for lunch, study hall, and "multi-tasking" which are all conducive to posting on the Planet. If you'd notice, there isn't a pattern really...just whenever I decide to sneak over here for 3 minutes, or 5 minutes, or 20 minutes at a time.

I have the window opened up all day on my computer, so I just check it whenever I finish with something or get a break. I've become very efficient at multi-tasking. :thumb:

[DenverChief]

Did he just say Jesus isn't relevant? ROFL


ROFL thats REP!

[teedubya]

This isn't "fair." But it IS illegal. If you don't like it, change the law.

Is society, ignoring the "fallout" of use right or wrong?

As Christians, of course we attempt to emulate Christ first. Use it like Jesus, fine. Did Jesus smoke it too? I'm curious. :hmmm:

You honestly think the only reason it's still illegal, is what happened early in the twentieth century? If so, why not see if you can change it.

The issue will ultimately be decided on merit; whichever side that loses will be able to remonstrate sour grapes if they wish, I suppose.

as I grow more influential in the business community... I'll see what I can do. I have consistently attempted to help open people eyes about the good of this plant. if I never hav access to a joint for the rest of my life, but was able to utilize this product for commerce and the greater good, believe me I would.

Imagine some the uses of hemp that the intelligent people of the United States could figure out, if freely given the ability to experiment and research. Its a travesty that we are unable to, by Drug War Czars and dictators, and other "pot nazis". heh.

[DenverChief]

The continued illegality of Marijuana wil forever continue the war on drugs, thus costing taxpayers more money than if it were legalized, end the war on drugs, save money being spent on prosecution and incarceration, make money in taxation and let someone get high in thier living room...

[teedubya]

That all depends on your dealer. I've had trips to the local Circle K where I was more concerned for my safety than some drug deals i've been a part of... er, heard about.

Yeah, I hear you... similar scenario... however, what I am most referring to is what percentage of American crime is because of or part of drugs?

and to contrast that, if the drugs were legal, what types of crimes would go away?

Maybe crackheads wouldnt steal shit to buy a rock. heh.
Maybe Reggie wouldnt sell drugs to kids...
Maybe the rap-thug drug dealer 50cent might not have become popular.

So many possibilities.

[DenverChief]

Yeah, I hear you... similar scenario... however, what I am most referring to is what percentage of American crime is because of or part of drugs?

and to contrast that, if the drugs were legal, what types of crimes would go away?

Maybe crackheads wouldnt steal shit to buy a rock. heh.
Maybe Reggie wouldnt sell drugs to kids...
Maybe the rap-thug drug dealer 50cent might not have become popular.

So many possibilities.


yup I'll see if I can dig up a paper I wrote about that for my Drugs & crime class

[Abba-Dabba]

This isn't "fair." But it IS illegal. If you don't like it, change the law.

Is society, ignoring the "fallout" of use right or wrong?

As Christians, of course we attempt to emulate Christ first. Use it like Jesus, fine. Did Jesus smoke it too? I'm curious. :hmmm:

You honestly think the only reason it's still illegal, is what happened early in the twentieth century? If so, why not see if you can change it.

The issue will ultimately be decided on merit; whichever side that loses will be able to remonstrate sour grapes if they wish, I suppose.

No it isn't fair. Life isn't fair. We all know that. That doesn't mean we have to stand pat with what policies we already have in place. How is standing pat progressing toward a better society for us all? Let's move forward, let's get out of our grandfathers mentality on life. We all can't be happy, but we sure as hell can try. I'm not sure if Jesus smoked it. I don't think so though. I'm sure as hell sure that he enjoyed the fumes off of incense and was effected thru his skin by dousing themselves in anointing oil. I honestly think it is illegal now is because the govt. knows that taxing it is next to impossible.

I'll be honest, I used to smoke all the time, and I mean all the time. I'd get up in the morning, smoke a cig, drink a pop, maybe eat a slice a toast or two and then roll me a big fat blunt and keep it going all day long. It was not uncommon for me at that time to go thru a ounce of marijuana a week. Now, once or twice a year and I'm happy. It's just not the big of a deal to me anymore. But I don't give a damn if someone chooses to smoke it all the time, I don't give a damn if someone wants to drink their liver into a dried prune. It's none of my business to dictate to someone how they treat their own body. That's JMHO.

[teedubya]

yup I'll see if I can dig up a paper I wrote about that for my Drugs & crime class

Id be interested in checking it out...

[Abba-Dabba]

I wonder why Amsterdam is not the richest spot in the world for their production of the material? Or Sri lanka, or Brazil, or Nairobi, etc etc etc.

It is nothing more than a rope and rough paper. It is a cheap substitute, but hardly the wherewithal answer to economy, food, and energy as alluded to in this thread.

Amsterdam isn't a country. I think the proper term would be the Netherlands. I would take a guess that the Netherlands isn't a major producer of industrial hemp mainly because of the size of the country. The Netherlands is an extremely small country. Tulips doesn't seem to be bad for them also.

The Netherlands has their fair share of indoor marijuana crops. A peek at Amsterdam(native population of 750,000) tourist numbers every year is on par those cities 5x the size. If you don't think marijuana is a driving force in their economy you would be sadly mistaken.

[KCWolfman]

Yeah, I hear you... similar scenario... however, what I am most referring to is what percentage of American crime is because of or part of drugs?

and to contrast that, if the drugs were legal, what types of crimes would go away?

Maybe crackheads wouldnt steal shit to buy a rock. heh.
Maybe Reggie wouldnt sell drugs to kids...
Maybe the rap-thug drug dealer 50cent might not have become popular.

So many possibilities.
People still bash the windows of liquor stores to steal cigarettes and alcohol. People still rob other people to buy alcohol.

That said, drugs are USUALLY a victimless crime. I have no problems with it being legal, providing two instances can be maintained:
1. The market is self sustained. My community makes a profit from the taxation. I don't have to spend a single penny in taxes on rehabilitation or sickness due to indulgence.

2. It is maintained in a predesignated area and highly illegal outside that area. I simply don't want it in my neighborhood. In a drug center that is taxed and highly controlled, I have no problem.

[KCWolfman]

Amsterdam isn't a country. I think the proper term would be the Netherlands. I would take a guess that the Netherlands isn't a major producer of industrial hemp mainly because of the size of the country. The Netherlands is an extremely small country. Tulips doesn't seem to be bad for them also.

The Netherlands has their fair share of indoor marijuana crops. A peek at Amsterdam(native population of 750,000) tourist numbers every year is on par those cities of cities 5x the size. If you don't think marijuana is a driving force in their economy you would be sadly mistaken.
I never stated it was a country, neither is Nairobi. And I thought we were discussing Hemp, not Marijuana. You guys are crossing issues.

[Abba-Dabba]

I never stated it was a country, neither is Nairobi. And I thought we were discussing Hemp, not Marijuana. You guys are crossing issues.

Ok I gotcha.

Kinda crossed issues. Industrial hemp to be economically effective would have to be outdoor grown. That's why I said the Netherlands is to small to be a major producer of hemp. They simply don't have the land to pull it off. Marijuana on the other hand can be grown differently in a shorter time period to achieve the desired results that would be for sale.

[Skip Towne]

People still bash the windows of liquor stores to steal cigarettes and alcohol. People still rob other people to buy alcohol.

That said, drugs are USUALLY a victimless crime. I have no problems with it being legal, providing two instances can be maintained:
1. The market is self sustained. My community makes a profit from the taxation. I don't have to spend a single penny in taxes on rehabilitation or sickness due to indulgence.

2. It is maintained in a predesignated area and highly illegal outside that area. I simply don't want it in my neighborhood. In a drug center that is taxed and highly controlled, I have no problem.
Here's a news flash for you....It's in your neighborhood RIGHT NOW.

[Mr. Kotter]

Thanks for the banter, fellas.

This is an issue that isn't likely to be soved anytime soon; and I understand the complexities....it certainly isn't as black and white as either side contends. There's plenty of obfuscation on both sides of the issue---of course, most of the smoke is coming from the other side.... :p

If you guys wanna smoke, fine; I have my own bad habits. :p

[KCWolfman]

Ok I gotcha.

Kinda crossed issues. Industrial hemp to be economically effective would have to be outdoor grown. That's why I said the Netherlands is to small to be a major producer of hemp. They simply don't have the land to pull it off. Marijuana on the other hand can be grown differently in a shorter time period to achieve the desired results that would be for sale.
If it were legalized, it would be as relegated, regulated, and judicially attacked as tobacco is now.

[KCWolfman]

Here's a news flash for you....It's in your neighborhood RIGHT NOW.
Then why worry about legalizing it? Yes, it is in my neighborhood, but there is an inherent risk at this point which means it is subdued.

[Skip Towne]

Then why worry about legalizing it? Yes, it is in my neighborhood, but there is an inherent risk at this point which means it is subdued.
So the bastards can't arrest me?

[KCWolfman]

So the bastards can't arrest me?
Do they have a reason to come in your house?

[Skip Towne]

Do they have a reason to come in your house?
Not that I know of. They might catch me in my van though as I'm bringing it home.

[Abba-Dabba]

If it were legalized, it would be as relegated, regulated, and judicially attacked as tobacco is now.

I don't think it needs to be legalized, actually I would be against legalization. Tolerated would do just as well. Inprison those that grow crops that are way beyond the means of reason. Like a grow operation with 1000+ plants. That is nothing more than someone trying to make a buck. Tolerate it, don't make it such a harsh crime on those using it for personal reasons. Make limits on what a person can purchase at one time, fine those that break those limits. Try to keep the flow of people to certain areas, not at every Tom, Dick and Harry corner store. Like areas where there is alot of bars. There are ways to doing this without legalization. But, like I have said earlier, it has been ingrained into our collective heads that it is bad bad bad. We have a long way to go to convince the public otherwise. The revenue generated from it that has been going into a drug dealers hand and instead into a tax paying establishment would be the ideal way. That is the only way I could see it pulled off. I'm against the whole having it at corner stores in pre-rolled packs. Too many kids would have direct access to it.

[teedubya]

George Washington said "Sow it everywhere." You know most people probably wouldnt even be smoking it, if it wasnt illegal.

Majority of people didnt even KNOW you could smoke it, until it was made illegal. People thought Hemp and Marihauna as TWO different things.

[teedubya]

Loving Those State Prisons
By Ronald Fraser, AlterNet
Posted on November 17, 2004, Printed on November 23, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/20539/

Here is how prison policies made in Oklahoma and Washington take on a life of their own. Once prison operators, prison employees and community tax collectors learned they could profit from harsh, lock-'em-up drug control laws, a powerful political force was born to keep prisons full.

During the 1980s and 1990s, tough-on-crime policies, especially drug control laws, overfilled America's prisons. State and federal prisons held only 315,974 inmates in 1980. By 2000, that number had skyrocketed to 1,321,137. When inmates in city and county jails are added, America's total prison population topped 2 million in 2002.

Prisons, however, are not reserved for violent offenders. In 2002, for example, 1,235,700 simple drug-possession arrests were made in the United States – about half of them for possession of marijuana. While not all of those arrested end up behind bars, the rush to lock up nonviolent offenders was, in large part, responsible for setting off America's prison-building boom.

A new study by Sarah Lawrence and Jeremy Travis at the Urban Institute's Justice Policy Center in Washington tracks how prisons became a growth industry in America. In "The New Landscape of Imprisonment: Mapping America's Prison Expansion," they found nationally that "during the last quarter of the 20th century, state prison systems grew from 592 prisons to 1,023 prisons – an increase of 73 percent."

In 1979, 20 state correctional facilities, including prisons, operated in Oklahoma. By 2000, that number grew to 52, with 14 being privately run. Seven facilities in Oklahoma County and two in Cleveland County are located near the capital city. Two more are in each of Tulsa, Hughes, Atoka, Pittsburg, Muskogee, Kay and Greer counties.

The U.S. Census counts prisoners where they are incarcerated, and federal and state agencies distribute funds based on this census data. The more prisoners counted in a town or county, the bigger will be its share of tax-funded goodies from Washington and Oklahoma City. This gravy train includes a slice of $200 billion a year in formula grants from Washington to all state and local governments for Medicaid, foster care, adoption assistance and 169 other programs. In addition, the same data are used to allocate state funds for community health services, road construction, law enforcement and public libraries.

Regular paychecks roll in for 4,983 prison employees in Oklahoma. And don't forget the incomes of employees of private firms that directly sell food, fuel, clothing and furniture to prisons. No wonder Oklahoma towns become addicted to this prison economy.

Spreading prisons across Oklahoma can actually perpetuate a large prison population. As more towns become economically dependent on state prisons holding more than 22,429 inmates in 2002, the greater is the likelihood grass-roots support will grow for politicians who favor putting nonviolent people behind bars. After all, it's in the self-interest of these towns to keep their prisons full and their local economies booming.

When prisons boom, everyone wins except the nonviolent inmates and the taxpayers. Politicians in Oklahoma City can show how tough they are on crime. Private prison operators and their investors make money. Prison guards pay off their mortgage and support local businesses. Even the tax collector gets his cut.

Now that the jailhouse economy is going strong, the political reforms needed to abandon this old drug war mentality will be much harder, if not impossible, to get through the legislature in Oklahoma City and Congress in Washington.

Chances are taxpayers are stuck with the cost of keeping 2 million men and women behind bars well into the future – not because justice demands it, but because the economic benefits of the prison business are working to keep it that way.

© 2004 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/20539/

[Abba-Dabba]

Who do you think I buy it from now?

And I see a problem with that.

Now I bet if it were tolerated and sold in a pub style setting that you knew was licensed to be selling you wouldn't be going to those kids. A place where you could pick and choose your buds instead of being handed a bag and having no choice what is put in it, or a half a bag full of shake and stems.

[teedubya]

AlterNet
A Prohibition-Style Crime Wave
By Anthony Gregory, The Independent Institute
Posted on November 23, 2004, Printed on November 23, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/20578/

The U.S. government spends $33 billion annually on the "war on drugs." Yet, the drug war has not reduced drug use, crime, or poverty as its proponents claim. In fact, the criminalization of drugs has spawned a crime wave in this country similar to the days of Prohibition.

Before Congress passed the National Prohibition Act in 1919, homicide rates in America were relatively low. In the 1910s, about five in 100,000 Americans fell victim to murder. At the height of Prohibition, the murder rate climbed nearly 60%. But after the 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition 16 years later, the rate steadily declined back to pre-Prohibition levels. The war on drugs, from the 1960s to the present, brought the homicide rate back up to about 10 per 100,000 – almost twice the rate before Prohibition and the drug war.

In fact, the more the government spends on the drug war, the more violent crime increases. Eliminating drug prohibition could reduce the homicide rate in the U.S. by 25 to 75 percent, according to economist Jeffrey A. Miron.

In his research for Drug War Crimes: The Consequences of Prohibition, Dr. Miron found that homicide rates and drug-law enforcement move in tandem in a variety of ways. As the drug war intensifies, the black market in drugs becomes more profitable, and those willing to risk prosecution and heavy prison time often become more willing to flout the law in other ways. Gang warfare becomes the norm, just as it did with alcohol prohibition, and innocent bystanders fall victim to the crossfire spawned by the drug laws. Dealers in the illegal drug trade have no nonviolent recourse in the courts or through legal arbitration to resolve disputes, and arguments over drug transactions or other matters fuel violent score settling within the illicit drug market.

Drug dealers and occasional bystanders are not the only casualties of drug prohibition. Another result is that the police and law enforcement resources are diverted from combating non-drug-related crimes, giving criminals more freedom to terrorize communities. In some cases, police officers themselves have become corrupted by the huge cash flows available to them if they agree to look the other way or even assist in organized crime.

The millions of dollars spent on drug law enforcement has had no proven substantial effect in reducing drug abuse. Drugs are not more difficult to acquire. According to Miron's research, the price of cocaine, adjusting for inflation and purity, fell in real dollars from $450 per pure gram in 1981 to about $100 by 1996.

As much as drug laws increase the risks facing drug dealers, they barely deter users. Although more than 1.2 million Americans are arrested for possession each year, there are still an estimated 28 million users.

America's war on drugs has spawned massive corruption, violent crime and the destruction of constitutional liberties. Half a million Americans are locked up for nonviolent drug crimes, often under federal mandatory minimums that often put them behind bars for longer prison terms than rapists and armed robbers. This is a major cause of the overcrowded prisons in the United States, which now has the highest per capita prison population in the world.

America's drug war has become an expensive subsidy for violent crime; very few political reforms would do more to reduce violent crime in America than ending it, once and for all.
© 2004 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/20578/

[Skip Towne]

Loving Those State Prisons
By Ronald Fraser, AlterNet
Posted on November 17, 2004, Printed on November 23, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/story/20539/

Here is how prison policies made in Oklahoma and Washington take on a life of their own. Once prison operators, prison employees and community tax collectors learned they could profit from harsh, lock-'em-up drug control laws, a powerful political force was born to keep prisons full.

During the 1980s and 1990s, tough-on-crime policies, especially drug control laws, overfilled America's prisons. State and federal prisons held only 315,974 inmates in 1980. By 2000, that number had skyrocketed to 1,321,137. When inmates in city and county jails are added, America's total prison population topped 2 million in 2002.

Prisons, however, are not reserved for violent offenders. In 2002, for example, 1,235,700 simple drug-possession arrests were made in the United States – about half of them for possession of marijuana. While not all of those arrested end up behind bars, the rush to lock up nonviolent offenders was, in large part, responsible for setting off America's prison-building boom.

A new study by Sarah Lawrence and Jeremy Travis at the Urban Institute's Justice Policy Center in Washington tracks how prisons became a growth industry in America. In "The New Landscape of Imprisonment: Mapping America's Prison Expansion," they found nationally that "during the last quarter of the 20th century, state prison systems grew from 592 prisons to 1,023 prisons – an increase of 73 percent."

In 1979, 20 state correctional facilities, including prisons, operated in Oklahoma. By 2000, that number grew to 52, with 14 being privately run. Seven facilities in Oklahoma County and two in Cleveland County are located near the capital city. Two more are in each of Tulsa, Hughes, Atoka, Pittsburg, Muskogee, Kay and Greer counties.

The U.S. Census counts prisoners where they are incarcerated, and federal and state agencies distribute funds based on this census data. The more prisoners counted in a town or county, the bigger will be its share of tax-funded goodies from Washington and Oklahoma City. This gravy train includes a slice of $200 billion a year in formula grants from Washington to all state and local governments for Medicaid, foster care, adoption assistance and 169 other programs. In addition, the same data are used to allocate state funds for community health services, road construction, law enforcement and public libraries.

Regular paychecks roll in for 4,983 prison employees in Oklahoma. And don't forget the incomes of employees of private firms that directly sell food, fuel, clothing and furniture to prisons. No wonder Oklahoma towns become addicted to this prison economy.

Spreading prisons across Oklahoma can actually perpetuate a large prison population. As more towns become economically dependent on state prisons holding more than 22,429 inmates in 2002, the greater is the likelihood grass-roots support will grow for politicians who favor putting nonviolent people behind bars. After all, it's in the self-interest of these towns to keep their prisons full and their local economies booming.

When prisons boom, everyone wins except the nonviolent inmates and the taxpayers. Politicians in Oklahoma City can show how tough they are on crime. Private prison operators and their investors make money. Prison guards pay off their mortgage and support local businesses. Even the tax collector gets his cut.

Now that the jailhouse economy is going strong, the political reforms needed to abandon this old drug war mentality will be much harder, if not impossible, to get through the legislature in Oklahoma City and Congress in Washington.

Chances are taxpayers are stuck with the cost of keeping 2 million men and women behind bars well into the future – not because justice demands it, but because the economic benefits of the prison business are working to keep it that way.

© 2004 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/20539/
The Tulsa County Jail is operated by a for profit company, Corrections Corporation of America. I once bailed a guy out of there at 6 PM and they wouldn't process him out till 3 AM so that they could get paid for another day.

[Inspector]

Hey, man. Reasonable people may disagree without being enemies.

Listen, dude; if you embrace civil disobediance, and are willin' to suffer the consequences of "dissin' da man," fine man. I applaud you. Seriously. Just don't whine if you are arrested, and have to serve time, understand?

So, we ought to nix whatever laws people ignore, eh? Who gets to decide where THAT line is drawn? You, me, or John Ascroft? :hmmm:

Feeding people with hemp? An alternative to other products? Possibly. But as I've suggested with others, you really don't understand capitalism if you think a dude 100 years ago is STILL preventing a viable market alternative. Bottom line, is IF it were a viable alternative, IT WOULD BE EMBRACED. PERIOD. It's not, so pot-heads continue to "whine" about how unfair the laws are, and how unfair life is. :rolleyes:

Large corporations, blah, blah, blah. I swear, IF it were a cost effective and efficient alternative....it would have been embraced years ago. It still may be; just not yet. Who knows, though?

I still contend the push for "hemp" is nothing more than a thinly veiled screen to attempt a back door legalization of the "bud."

And most of us are onto ya, dude. Get over it.... :)


Just curious, do you, personally, have any problem with it being legal for a consenting adult to do what they want to their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes? Would you support a law that would allow that?

Just curious.....

[Inspector]

At one time the majority of Americans wanted slavery to remain legal.

Anyone who supports the current "lock 'em up" philiosphy in regards to people who use MJ on their own bodies, are supporting the rapists and murderers who must be let out to make room for the pot smokers. (Wonder how they would feel if their daughter was raped as a result???)

If you feel that you should have the privelege of dictating what a consenting adult does to their own body in the privacy of their own home, then you MUST be willing to have those same people dictate to YOU what you can do to YOUR body in the privacy of your home. If not, then I would say your are a hypocrit and a fraud. It's not a one way street.

It amazes me how many people want it to be illegal because it's illegal. Many times they have no other reason.

It's also funny how many times people confuse the argument about "consenting adults in their own homes" issue. I have often heard them talk about driving or kids getting it or people being stoned in public - as if "consenting adults in the privacy of their homes" equates to driving under the influence, contributing to the delinquency of minors or public drunkedness. Those really are different issues.

An elderly couple were murdered in their bible store in Raytown recently. They have made an arrest. Guess what? The guy they arrested has been in prison for violent crime. Now, ask yourself, why was he let out? My bet - they needed to make room.

But, like I said earlier, it will never be legal. Too damn many people making a $$ from it being illegal.

I have never found anyone who can tell me why they should be able to dictate what a consenting adult should be able to do to their own bodies in the privacy of their own home. At least not a coherent, logical or mature reason. Usually they retort with saying "it's illegal".

Yeah, umkay.....

[CosmicPal]

But, like I said earlier, it will never be legal. Too damn many people making a $$ from it being illegal.




Prisons are a money making operation from the construction of the buildings all the way down to the inmates being telemarketers.

3/4 of the current prison population is there for mandatory minimum sentencing- which is predominately fueled by non-violent crimes such as the selling/use of marijuana. If the states all of a sudden legalized marijuana- all of these inmates would then be released- no more sales calls or soap making or license plates. They would have to be done by rapists and murderers- who are unsafe for prisons, much less society.

[Boozer]

At one time the majority of Americans wanted slavery to remain legal.

Anyone who supports the current "lock 'em up" philiosphy in regards to people who use MJ on their own bodies, are supporting the rapists and murderers who must be let out to make room for the pot smokers. (Wonder how they would feel if their daughter was raped as a result???)

If you feel that you should have the privelege of dictating what a consenting adult does to their own body in the privacy of their own home, then you MUST be willing to have those same people dictate to YOU what you can do to YOUR body in the privacy of your home. If not, then I would say your are a hypocrit and a fraud. It's not a one way street.

It amazes me how many people want it to be illegal because it's illegal. Many times they have no other reason.

It's also funny how many times people confuse the argument about "consenting adults in their own homes" issue. I have often heard them talk about driving or kids getting it or people being stoned in public - as if "consenting adults in the privacy of their homes" equates to driving under the influence, contributing to the delinquency of minors or public drunkedness. Those really are different issues.

An elderly couple were murdered in their bible store in Raytown recently. They have made an arrest. Guess what? The guy they arrested has been in prison for violent crime. Now, ask yourself, why was he let out? My bet - they needed to make room.

But, like I said earlier, it will never be legal. Too damn many people making a $$ from it being illegal.

I have never found anyone who can tell me why they should be able to dictate what a consenting adult should be able to do to their own bodies in the privacy of their own home. At least not a coherent, logical or mature reason. Usually they retort with saying "it's illegal".

Yeah, umkay.....

More than anything, it's a failed policy. There's no need to point fingers at one political party or another, there's plenty of blame to go around. My question to the statists in favor of continued illegality for drugs is, what should we do differently?

[Hydrae]

Something Boozer said made this pop into my head: shouldn't this be a state level issue to begin with? Unless you are talking about interstate transport there is no reason for the feds to be involved. Of course that hasn't stopped them from screwing with the medical use people in California.

[Boozer]

Something Boozer said made this pop into my head: shouldn't this be a state level issue to begin with? Unless you are talking about interstate transport there is no reason for the feds to be involved. Of course that hasn't stopped them from screwing with the medical use people in California.

The U.S. Supreme Court is hearing a case this term involving a woman convited of a federal crime for growing pot in her backyard for personal use (or something like that). Based on recent Commerce Clause decisions, it's likely that they'll reverse the conviction (unless Wickard v. Filburn makes a triumphant return from the grave). Of course, such a decision wouldn't make all drug prosecutions state matters, but it is a step towards decentralization.

[Boozer]

The U.S. Supreme Court is hearing a case this term involving a woman convited of a federal crime for growing pot in her backyard for personal use (or something like that). Based on recent Commerce Clause decisions, it's likely that they'll reverse the conviction (unless Wickard v. Filburn makes a triumphant return from the grave). Of course, such a decision wouldn't make all drug prosecutions state matters, but it is a step towards decentralization.

The case is Ashcroft v. Raich, and it's set for oral argument next Monday.

[Inspector]

Prisons are a money making operation from the construction of the buildings all the way down to the inmates being telemarketers.

3/4 of the current prison population is there for mandatory minimum sentencing- which is predominately fueled by non-violent crimes such as the selling/use of marijuana. If the states all of a sudden legalized marijuana- all of these inmates would then be released- no more sales calls or soap making or license plates. They would have to be done by rapists and murderers- who are unsafe for prisons, much less society.

Yep, right you are!!

My wife didn't vote in the last election. Then she started whining about that elderly couple getting murdered.

I told her since she didn't vote (for Badnarik) she was supporting the system that makes it possible for violent criminals to get out to do more violence.

I was just having some fun, joking around with her, but I truly believe there is some truth to that conjecture. If you support MJ being illegal, you are supporting the early release of bad people who want to hurt your family.

I've always wanted my crime fighting dollars to be spent on locking up people who would hurt myself or members of my family. Heck, I'd support locking up anyone who would hurt your family too. I DO NOT support my crime fighting dollars being spent on locking up prisoners of war. Especially those who have never and would never hurt another human being or another human being's property.

Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Could it be they are making some money from it being illegal???? Or maybe they are somewhat ignorant???

Hmmm...makes me wonder.

[chiefs4me]

Not that I know of. They might catch me in my van though as I'm bringing it home.


ROFLROFL

[Hydrae]

The case is Ashcroft v. Raich, and it's set for oral argument next Monday.


Interesting stuff. I had to google that case but that is screwed up! I find it interesting how Ashcroft was able to turn the case around from it originally being Raich vs Ashcroft to where he is now the plaintiff.

Thanks for the info! :thumb:

[Boozer]

Interesting stuff. I had to google that case but that is screwed up! I find it interesting how Ashcroft was able to turn the case around from it originally being Raich vs Ahscroft to where he is now the plaintiff.

Thanks for the info! :thumb:

Eh, that's just how the U.S. Supreme Court (and some state appellate courts) works. Generally, the appealing party, whether he was the original plaintiff or not, is listed first. For example, it was Bush v. Gore because Bush lost at the Florida Supreme Court and appealed (I don't know whether Gore sued first or not).

[ChiefFripp]

Legalize it, tax it and make the age for legal usage 25 and on. Too many good things can come from this plant and the bad things are happening anyways. My guess is the federal goverment just likes fueling the prisons to justify their heavy spending on them when we don't really need most of them.

I love law enforcement officers, they will hound you like hell for minor things like what's in your yard but if someone breaks into your house they'll show up and say "what do you really expect us to do about it?" then maybe if you're lucky they'll drive around your block with a searchlight once. Most cops are jackasses.

[Braincase]

The U.S. Supreme Court is hearing a case this term involving a woman convited of a federal crime for growing pot in her backyard for personal use (or something like that). Based on recent Commerce Clause decisions, it's likely that they'll reverse the conviction (unless Wickard v. Filburn makes a triumphant return from the grave). Of course, such a decision wouldn't make all drug prosecutions state matters, but it is a step towards decentralization.

You meant decriminalization, right?

[Boozer]

You meant decriminalization, right?

Actually, both. Decriminalization is easier if drug laws are decentralized. This way, the feds can't step up their prosecutions if a state (say, California) decides to legalize for specific purposes ("medical uses") or decriminalizes.

[Skip Towne]

Legalize it, tax it and make the age for legal usage 25 and on. Too many good things can come from this plant and the bad things are happening anyways. My guess is the federal goverment just likes fueling the prisons to justify their heavy spending on them when we don't really need most of them.

I love law enforcement officers, they will hound you like hell for minor things like what's in your yard but if someone breaks into your house they'll show up and say "what do you really expect us to do about it?" then maybe if you're lucky they'll drive around your block with a searchlight once. Most cops are jackasses.
That there is rep.

[MOhillbilly]

Two things.It aint a crime if you dont get caught. And if you do get poped just remember "YOU PAY TO PLAY"
Pot shouldnt be legal. Its a good way to make cash if you have the balls to mess w/ it. you can go from lower middle class to middle class and move just a little a month to your friends and co-workers.

And if you get busted w/ weed yous a real dumbass. Matter of fact if you get busted at all your a dumbass,so really the prison system is just doing society a favor by gettin tards off the street.

[LABronx]

That cuts BOTH ways....

Comprede?

Should we compare the credibility of the "propagandists" on the two sides of this issue? :)

you left out the "n" in comprende.

sorry about that

=+)

[Skip Towne]

Two things.It aint a crime if you dont get caught. And if you do get poped just remember "YOU PAY TO PLAY"
Pot shouldnt be legal. Its a good way to make cash if you have the balls to mess w/ it. you can go from lower middle class to middle class and move just a little a month to your friends and co-workers.

And if you get busted w/ weed yous a real dumbass. Matter of fact if you get busted at all your a dumbass,so really the prison system is just doing society a favor by gettin tards off the street.
What about the revenooers?

[teedubya]

as this thread approaches 200.

Have a Happy Tokesgiving tomorrow.

[DenverChief]

as this thread approaches 200.

Have a Happy Tokesgiving tomorrow. ROFL

[MOhillbilly]

What about the revenooers?

Revenoors is one thing fence walkin smokeys is another.
Im gonna tell this story and i dont really care,its just a story.

Probably the closest i ever came to gettin poped w/ enough shit and doin some real time was around 96-97 i was comin outta swissvilla after the No Doubt show and just got done burnin one and got pulled over by a lawdog,and i FN just knew he could smell it.
So i tell him its a new truck and i hadnt had a chance to get it taged yet ect. and he lets me go no ticket.
Now he had probable cause it had to stink.

So as im pullin off i tell the girl next to me(who was a runaway and hadnt been home in 6 months) that was close cause theres an unregistered & loaded .357 under the seat and a half pound.

That and the time i bit the dudes thumb off.

[Skip Towne]

Revenoors is one thing fence walkin smokeys is another.
Im gonna tell this story and i dont really care,its just a story.

Probably the closest i ever came to gettin poped w/ enough shit and doin some real time was around 96-97 i was comin outta swissvilla after the No Doubt show and just got done burnin one and got pulled over by a lawdog,and i FN just knew he could smell it.
So i tell him its a new truck and i hadnt had a chance to get it taged yet ect. and he lets me go no ticket.
Now he had probable cause it had to stink.

So as im pullin off i tell the girl next to me(who was a runaway and hadnt been home in 6 months) that was close cause theres an unregistered & loaded .357 under the seat and a half pound.

That and the time i bit the dudes thumb off.
Those are pretty good stories. What do you do for excitement?

[MOhillbilly]

Those are pretty good stories. What do you do for excitement?


Ill take the 5th Senator.

[bringbackmarty]

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

First thing is first. I have a real problem with you using the n - word.
You should apologize to all of the poeple whom you have offended.
That word is a relic of pre civil war slavery, and pre civil rights racist America. As a white male who works in the south with poor black people every day, I have at least a respect, if not a basic understanding for the challenges that black americans face with racism/socio-economic discrimination. Part of showing that respect is to never, ever use that word.
As far as me proving what is scientifically true about the differences of marijuana, and marinol, it's all in the chemistry. Marinol is synthetically produced thc. Marijuana is burned. The burning produces other substances besides delta 9 thc. Those other substances help create some of the euphoria, and anti nausea/pain properties. Why don't you provide some of your information on marijauna. of course you can't use any sources that might be too right wing. Thye truth is there haven't been enough studies on the drug, and it's good or bad effects. Why? The goverment won't allow it. Why, it ****s with the booze tobacco viagra money?

[bringbackmarty]

Thanks for the banter, fellas.

This is an issue that isn't likely to be soved anytime soon; and I understand the complexities....it certainly isn't as black and white as either side contends. There's plenty of obfuscation on both sides of the issue---of course, most of the smoke is coming from the other side.... :p

If you guys wanna smoke, fine; I have my own bad habits. :p
Yeah like being a racist idiot who believes whatever bush tells him.

[jcl-kcfan2]

First thing is first. I have a real problem with you using the n - word.
You should apologize to all of the poeple whom you have offended.
That word is a relic of pre civil war slavery, and pre civil rights racist America. As a white male who works in the south with poor black people every day, I have at least a respect, if not a basic understanding for the challenges that black americans face with racism/socio-economic discrimination. Part of showing that respect is to never, ever use that word.
As far as me proving what is scientifically true about the differences of marijuana, and marinol, it's all in the chemistry. Marinol is synthetically produced thc. Marijuana is burned. The burning produces other substances besides delta 9 thc. Those other substances help create some of the euphoria, and anti nausea/pain properties. Why don't you provide some of your information on marijauna. of course you can't use any sources that might be too right wing. Thye truth is there haven't been enough studies on the drug, and it's good or bad effects. Why? The goverment won't allow it. Why, it ****s with the booze tobacco viagra money?


As to the efficacy testing of marinol:

1980 Chemo/Surgical treatment of bone cancer (osteogenic sarcoma).
"Guinea Pig'ing" Methatrexite. Intense nasuea. Asked to try the capsules, said "OK". After 1 week and about 5lbs lost, told them it doesn't work and told them why and "sorry, but I need to eat".

It isn't just the drug (thc) on the receptor sites.
They give you the pills, it doesn't give you a "buzz' and then you don't get the "munchies".
Light one up, you get a buzz, you get the munchies, no nausea.

When they learn what part of it gives the munchies, then it will be just anti-nausea.

But quite honestly, the anti-depressant effect is just as important when undergoing drastic treatments.

[MOhillbilly]

Bottom line Marinol is not as good as pot.

[Mr. Kotter]

First thing is first. I have a real problem with you using the n - word.
You should apologize to all of the poeple whom you have offended.
That word is a relic of pre civil war slavery, and pre civil rights racist America. As a white male who works in the south with poor black people every day, I have at least a respect, if not a basic understanding for the challenges that black americans face with racism/socio-economic discrimination. Part of showing that respect is to never, ever use that word.
As far as me proving what is scientifically true about the differences of marijuana, and marinol, it's all in the chemistry. Marinol is synthetically produced thc. Marijuana is burned. The burning produces other substances besides delta 9 thc. Those other substances help create some of the euphoria, and anti nausea/pain properties. Why don't you provide some of your information on marijauna. of course you can't use any sources that might be too right wing. Thye truth is there haven't been enough studies on the drug, and it's good or bad effects. Why? The goverment won't allow it. Why, it ****s with the booze tobacco viagra money?

FYI, and BC's FYI:

I'm one-eighth black; great gran pappy was a butler for the Rockefeller clan back in the day--I'd prove it, by droppin' my drawers but you sound like a person with same sex preferences, if you know what I mean...Buster Rhymes is a cousin; Snoopy Dog, a fourth cousin.

...back off sucka; else I'll have some homey's find yo crib, and bust a cap on yo azz....aaaaiiiiigghht?

[Mr. Kotter]

You're whiter than I am.

Appearances can be decieving....yo, word? :harumph:

[penguinz]

As far as smoking the kind of pot that gets a person high, well that makes people eat cookie dough. Not really a big problem if you ask me.

I don;t know about that. Cokie dough has raw eggs in it. You could get salmonella and die.
:p

[Abba-Dabba]

Those are pretty good stories. What do you do for excitement?

ROFL :clap:

Am I the only one to catch that?

[bringbackmarty]

FYI, and BC's FYI:

I'm one-eighth black; great gran pappy was a butler for the Rockefeller clan back in the day--I'd prove it, by droppin' my drawers but you sound like a person with same sex preferences, if you know what I mean...Buster Rhymes is a cousin; Snoopy Dog, a fourth cousin.

...back off sucka; else I'll have some homey's find yo crib, and bust a cap on yo azz....aaaaiiiiigghht?
You obviously have some serious mental problems. "If you don't get help at chiefs planet, get help somewhere buddy." I also live in a conceal and carry state so whoever your homies are, they better be able to outshoot me, which is highly unlikely. also its snoop dog, and bustah rhymes, not snoopy or buster, and it's "bust a cap in (not on) your ass", learn your ghetto speak you ****ing piece of white trash.

[Ultra Peanut]

You obviously have some serious mental problems. "If you don't get help at chiefs planet, get help somewhere buddy." I also live in a conceal and carry state so whoever your homies are, they better be able to outshoot me, which is highly unlikely. also its snoop dog, and bustah rhymes, not snoopy or buster, and it's "bust a cap in (not on) your ass", learn your ghetto speak you ****ing piece of white trash.Hard to tell if he's a bitch-ass mark or a mark-ass bitch.

[teedubya]

You obviously have some serious mental problems. "If you don't get help at chiefs planet, get help somewhere buddy." I also live in a conceal and carry state so whoever your homies are, they better be able to outshoot me, which is highly unlikely. also its snoop dog, and bustah rhymes, not snoopy or buster, and it's "bust a cap in (not on) your ass", learn your ghetto speak you ****ing piece of white trash.

Well for this thanksgiving, I think you might need to chill the FOCK out.

there are herbal remedies that you could illegally partake of, to help reduce your stress level.

[Braincase]

FYI, and BC's FYI:

I'm one-eighth black; great gran pappy was a butler for the Rockefeller clan back in the day--I'd prove it, by droppin' my drawers but you sound like a person with same sex preferences, if you know what I mean...Buster Rhymes is a cousin; Snoopy Dog, a fourth cousin.

...back off sucka; else I'll have some homey's find yo crib, and bust a cap on yo azz....aaaaiiiiigghht?

Um.... you ever know somebody that learned a foreign language, then went to that country and tried to use it, and did so badly? Then, the dude comes back stateside, then bitches about how the natives mocked his poor implementation of their language? You're use of the vernacular may incite a man of African heritage to behave in a manner almost Frankish. If a man speaks English, speak English. Let him be the one to butcher your language, and you not his.

INCOMING!

(Obligatory :p Smiley).

[300TD's]

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...nigga, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

you are slow.

[300TD's]

You obviously have some serious mental problems. "If you don't get help at chiefs planet, get help somewhere buddy." I also live in a conceal and carry state so whoever your homies are, they better be able to outshoot me, which is highly unlikely. also its snoop dog, and bustah rhymes, not snoopy or buster, and it's "bust a cap in (not on) your ass", learn your ghetto speak you ****ing piece of white trash.

lmao! BTW it is Snoop Dogg

[bringbackmarty]

my bad

[bringbackmarty]

Well for this thanksgiving, I think you might need to chill the FOCK out.

there are herbal remedies that you could illegally partake of, to help reduce your stress level.
Ali go "fock" yourself. sd chiefs was crapping a racist turd out of his mouth, then threatened me, I was merely defending myself and ripping him a new one for acting like a total dipshit. I would hope you'd have the sense to see that.

[Braincase]

Ali go "fock" yourself. sd chiefs was crapping a racist turd out of his mouth, then threatened me, I was merely defending myself and ripping him a new one for acting like a total dipshit. I would hope you'd have the sense to see that.

I think alot of us catch a few posts in a thread, post, then go back and say to ourselves..."Ooops, I missed that. ". God knows I do.

[bringbackmarty]

yea you probably right. sorry ali. my bad.

[Mr. Kotter]

you are slow.You know nothing about me.

Quit pretending you do...FYI, this is a Internet Discussion Board. Obnoxiousness, political incorrectness, silliness, TIC humor, and drunk remarks may offend pussies.

Thin-skinned weenies with sand in their vagina, should click here:

HERE (http://www.disney.com)

[Mr. Kotter]

yea you probably right. sorry ali. my bad.

Dude, take a chill pill.

I love Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, and a whole lot of offensive MFers.

Sometimes their offensive vernacular creeps into mine.

It's all good; I'm not gonna lose any sleep... :)

[Ultra Peanut]

You're not slow.

You're retarded.

[Mr. Kotter]

You're not slow.

You're retarded.

Yup, that's me.... :rolleyes:

If only you knew...

Besides, I've read some of the sh*t you've posted; you don't want to go there.... :p

[teedubya]

I went to the health food store today, and bought some Hemp Cereal... damn this shit is tasty.

[Mr. Kotter]

I went to the health food store today, and bought some Hemp Cereal... damn this shit is tasty.

How many boxes you gotta eat to get stoned? :hmmm:

ROFL

[ROYC75]

I haven't read all of this, What I want to know is how does Rickey figure into all of this ? :D

[teedubya]

How many boxes you gotta eat to get stoned? :hmmm:

ROFL


silly focker.

[bringbackmarty]

Dude, take a chill pill.

I love Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, and a whole lot of offensive MFers.

Sometimes their offensive vernacular creeps into mine.

It's all good; I'm not gonna lose any sleep... :)
f.p.o.w.t.

[Mr. Kotter]

f.p.o.w.t.

Someone wanna translate for me? :hmmm:

[Mr. Kotter]

f.p.o.w.t.

Furtive prescient omnipotent wonderful teacher?

:shrug:

(This dude doesn't know me well enough for it to be what I think it is; so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.... :thumb: )

[Mr. Kotter]

Yeah like being a racist idiot who believes whatever bush tells him.

I went back through this thread to figure out, what your friggin' problem with me is; sorry if you were offended by my bad impression of Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy. People who know me, would call be anything but a racist....and I sure as hell ain't an idiot. You may not like me; but I'm no idiot....anyway, you're on a road to burnout in your job, if this is your attitude and MO. You need to lighten the hell up, dude.

Anyway the quote from you above...ooops, I missed this gem the first time through this thread....it explains a lot. :rolleyes:

You obviously didn't follow me during the pre-election period: I supported Bush, but only because Kerry was a horrible choice IMO. As a Democrat myself, had the party nominated a decent candidate--I would have voted for him/her. They didn't; I held my nose and voted Bush, yes.

As someone who grew up, where you now work....we laughed at people like you; you'd come to the projects with your idealism, to be our friends. Con games on you clowns were too easy. And we used you like a cheap whore.

In any case, if you wanna vent your pathetic anti-Bush feelings and hatred of the outcome of the election on me, I'm cool with that. I hope it's thearapuetic for you.

But you are the one gettin' played, dude. Enjoy it. :)

[Braincase]

I went to the health food store today, and bought some Hemp Cereal... damn this shit is tasty.

And you can't stop eating it until the box is empty.

[Skip Towne]

I went back through this thread to figure out, what your friggin' problem with me is; sorry if you were offended by my bad impression of Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy. People who know me, would call be anything but a racist....and I sure as hell ain't an idiot. You may not like me; but I'm no idiot....anyway, you're on a road to burnout in your job, if this is your attitude and MO. You need to lighten the hell up, dude.

Anyway the quote from you above...ooops, I missed this gem the first time through this thread....it explains a lot. :rolleyes:

You obviously didn't follow me during the pre-election period: I supported Bush, but only because Kerry was a horrible choice IMO. As a Democrat myself, had the party nominated a decent candidate--I would have voted for him/her. They didn't; I held my nose and voted Bush, yes.

As someone who grew up, where you now work....we laughed at people like you; you'd come to the projects with your idealism, to be our friends. Con games on you clowns were too easy. And we used you like a cheap whore.

In any case, if you wanna vent your pathetic anti-Bush feelings and hatred of the outcome of the election on me, I'm cool with that. I hope it's thearapuetic for you.

But you are the one gettin' played, dude. Enjoy it. :)
Wow, what a rant. Are you addicted to marijuana?

[Tombstone RJ]

Here is a response I wrote to Wayne Allard on Capital Hill about why hemp, not marijuana, should be legalized as an industrial crop. Wayne Allard's email address was down, so I forwarded it to Ms. Degett. Enjoy:

Dear Ms. Degette,

Thank you for your reply to my email about hemp. I sent an email to Wayne Allard and he replied to my email also. Unfortunately, Mr. Allard is against the use of industrial hemp as manufactured product in the U.S. His response to my email was negative but I replied back to his email with the following, which I hope you can pass along to Mr. Allard because his congressional email address is not working:

I understand and appreciate the federal government’s intention to control illegal narcotics and their distribution in the U.S., however, the 1937 legislation that criminalized the use of hemp as an industrial product was a reaction to the social use of “marijuana” in the U.S. By demonizing all aspects of hemp the legislation written in the 1930’s now prohibits the rational distinction between the narcotic “marijuana” and the industrial cash crop known throughout modern national and international society as “hemp.” It is true hemp and marijuana are products of the same plant “cannabis sativa” but the narcotic “marijuana” is reliant on THC for its psychoactive effects on the human brain. Industrial hemp can be produced by U.S. farmers and controlled under federal jurisdiction for distribution and production without the chance of an increased social use of “marijuana” by the general public. In other words, hemp can be produced without THC (or minor traces of THC) and used in multiple products with zero harmful effects to the human brain.

In fact, by hemp becoming a controlled and taxable cash crop by U.S. industry, the federal government can actually increase its DEA budget by using tax money from hemp to help fund the “War on Drugs.” It’s a win-win situation for the U.S. federal government to industrialize hemp because it can help control the product much like any cash crop (wheat, corn, potatoes, etc.) and generate more tax revenue for the “War on Drugs.”

In fact, if you think about the legalization of hemp as an industrial cash crop, there are multiple benefits for the U.S. economy. First, it allows the farming community to generate another crop that is valued throughout the world for its useful byproducts. Secondly, it increases jobs in the private sector because of the variable uses of hemp products in the textiles industry beginning with the U.S. Farmer and ending with the local retailer and consumer (the hemp crop has so many different uses that it is difficult to list them all here). Thirdly, it allows the U.S. government to generate taxable funds from hemp and in turn use those funds to help eradicate the illegal use of “marijuana” and other narcotics the plague our society.

Please, please reconsider your position on hemp and thank you for listening.

If you can please forward my response to Mr. Allard, I will appreciate it very much. Again, thank you for your position on industrial hemp. It is a good product but unfortunately it is confused with the social use and abuse of marijuana.

Here is her reply:

degette@mail.house.gov wrote:

December 18, 2002


Mr. XXXXXXXX
XXX XXX Street
Denver, Colorado 80205

Dear Mr. XXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the use of industrial hemp in the
United States. I appreciate learning your views.

I believe that industrial hemp could be a valuable contribution to the
economic marketplace. Its cultivation could provide an alternative to
single-crop farmers whose harvests have been declining in recent years,
and the sale of hemp products would allow the U.S. to compete with
countries like those of the European Union that allow the farming of hemp.
Also, hemp is friendlier to the environment than other more traditional
crops because it is attacked by insects less than and would therefore
require fewer pesticides. Additionally, I believe that the manufacture of
hemp products should not be impeded if they are not dangerous to people's
health. I will continue to follow the progress of this issue and will be
sure to keep your views in mind should legislation affecting the use of
hemp reach the House floor for a vote.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I look forward to our continued
communication.


Sincerely,

Diana DeGette
Member of Congress

[teedubya]

Here is a response I wrote to Wayne Allard on Capital Hill about why hemp, not marijuana, should be legalized as an industrial crop. Wayne Allard's email address was down, so I forwarded it to Ms. Degett. Enjoy:

Dear Ms. Degette,

...


Sincerely,

Diana DeGette
Member of Congress


Bravo! :clap: Rep.

[teedubya]

I think Ill bump this, as its a great day to be stoned.

[RedNFeisty]

And you can't stop eating it until the box is empty.


That is me with a box of chocolate covered cherries when I am stoned. :drool:

[RedNFeisty]

I think Ill bump this, as its a great day to be stoned.

Yes, sitting in a screened in porch and toking away.

[jiveturkey]

I support growing hemp for commercial and industrial uses but not cannabis.

[jiveturkey]

I bet that this car smell like a box full of ass.

http://www.hempcar.org/indexOLD.html

[Skip Towne]

What a coincidence! I said the very same thing in the weather thread awhile ago.

[RedNFeisty]

I support growing hemp for commercial and industrial uses but not cannabis.

Where is the fun in that!?!? Not everything has to be pratical, sheesh.

:)

[Skip Towne]

Where is the fun in that!?!? Not everything has to be pratical, sheesh.

:)
What's impractical about cannabis?

[sedated]

I support growing hemp for the relaxation of America's over-worked, stressed-out citizens

[RedNFeisty]

What's impractical about cannabis?

For my purposes, nothing, nor is it practical for a person to get home from work and pour a glass of Scotch or crack open a beer. Enjoyable, but not practical.

[Fish]

I support growing hemp for the relaxation of America's over-worked, stressed-out citizens

Hell yes!! And if there is any left over after we smoke, we can surely use the rest to make some hemp paper or rope or any of the other thousands of.... uhh.... umm...

Where am I?

[FAX]

There once was a pothead so practical
He rolled his dope in prophylacticals
He smoked in the buff
And after each puff
He got high plus orgasmic climactical

FAX

[Starbux37]

I support growing hemp for the relaxation of America's over-worked, stressed-out citizens

AMEN, Brother.

Just wish my wife could see it that way as well.

[Katipan]

For the first time ever I saw the vaccumed sealed packs of bud that's officially grown for "medicinal purposes" It's really neat. Has all sorts of prescription thingys on it. $320 for 28 grams. I'm torn between wanting to save it (the bag), and really not wanting my kids to ever find it. :p

I have only one question. Why is something called Alaskan Thunder made in Alameda, CA? :D

[chief2000]

Paoti !

[teedubya]

This one seems appropriate to bump.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Otherwise, why would we want to add another major addiction, another major problem....to join with alcohol and tobacco as societal problems?
JMHO

Because we'd spend less supporting the very small percentage that became "addicts" than we do trying to enforce it year after year. The tax revenue it would create would be a positive as well. Imagine if all the money we didn't spend on the marijuana drug war, combined with all of the taxes collected from its sale went straight to education. Shit, the possibilities are endless. Besides, freedom man. Live and let live. Hell, you're the author of the drink of choice thread.

[Ultra Peanut]

Paoti !Peyote?

[CosmicPal]

I watched Ganja Queen last night. Wow, what a heartbreaking true story that was.

For those of you who don't know, it's a documentary filmed during the trial of this young Australian gal who went to Bali for a vacation. She flew from Brisbane to Sydney, and then from Sydney to Bali. When she arrived in Bali, there was 10 pounds of hydrophonic pot placed in her boogie board bag.

She, of course, was arrested at the airport. Indonesia carries the death penalty for drug trafficking, so this gal was now looking at a possible firing squad for having drugs planted in her bag.

The police never fingerprinted the boogie board bag, nor did they ever fingerprint the bag that housed the pot. They simply arrested her on the spot.

It made all kinds of headlines in Australia and people were supporting her and such. The Australian government then sent a letter to the Indonesian court stating that 20-some baggage handlers were arrested on the very same day in Sydney's airport for drug trafficking.

After all that, they still sentenced her to 25 years- even though she was not guilty and proven so by the Australian government.

This is just one of many sad stories of travelers who get *****ed with drugs in other countries.

[teedubya]

wow.

[Logical]

Puff, puff, pass the Constitution.

[rad]

saying you are indoctrinated is not making it personal. I have called you no names... not been rude. This book is just one of the many that i have read one this subject. When I starte this thread, it wasnt to get into it with anyone... just to perhaps open the minds of some of the people who dont even know hemp can do anything good.

Since gas/fuel is near $2 a gallon, and if we could mass produce hempseed oil for fuel in cars, at say $.50 a gallon, I would sure be interested, wouldnt you? Well, I have read it would be around $.25 a gallon... plus all of the farmers could make some serious cash, not only from fuel but from all of the other uses.

Our farmers have been decimated, and our industry and manufacturing jobs are moving over seas super fast like... superspeedy... so, we need to make a change somewhere to avoid becoming completely bankrupt...

my guess is with an oil loving president with strong historically familial ties to the oil industry, I sincerely doubt any movement toward biomass fuels will happen for awhile, and it is indeed quite sad.

Seems like forever ago, I can't remember when gas was this cheap...

(Must be all the pot I'm addicted to)LMAO

[tooge]

hey idiot, it already is the number one cash crop in america. It already is a major problem for right wing conservative assholes who would rather push the viagra, marlboro, bud light drugs on kids and adults most indescriminately with the constant media ads. By the way Marinol does not work as well as smoking, because pot that is smoked has cannabiniods that marinol doesn't have. These cannabiniods produce some of the antinausea, pain supressant and antidepressant effects of the medication. The reason it isn't legal. Money. The corporate assholes have alchohol tobacco and the presciption shit so well regulated. If people start spending money first on weed that growing their own weed the corporations see none of that bread. It's all about money and not about anything else.

Sorry Kotter, this pretty much hits the nail on the head

[R&GHomer]

Do you have any understanding of "capitalism?" Seriously?

IF, it were profitable...it would be "legal;" period, end of sentence. THAT'S what capitalism is all about; I don't CARE how long ago some timber companies pressured Congress (BTW, FWIW...it WAS 100 yrs ago.) You don't think we'd have legalized it by NOW, IF it were profitable...*****, pleeze!!! :rolleyes:

You're not really serious are you?

[boogblaster]

I used to make a fair profit ....

[stumppy]

You're not really serious are you?


I hope he's joking. If not he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.

[ChiefFripp]

Anything is profitable if it has a market, and I think I know a good portion of the market personally. You know Pizza Hut and the company that makes Doritos want to legalize it.

[tooge]

You know, I try not to get personal here....unless someone else does it first, or unless I've been drinking sometimes...

Indoctrinated? Please. I grew up around the stuff, in the ghetto. I smoked the stuff back in the day... Of course, I didn't accept what the Army said as fact. FWIW, it was actually offered through the University of Colorado, and had nothing to do with the Army. To insinuate I haven't looked at the issue with a critical eye, by analyzing the dueling studies and research is a bit presumptious of you.

If THAT book is the source of your info, I understand where you are coming from though. Finally, I'd suggest you take your own advice, and search for a mind for yourself....unless you, like I have, looked at both sides of the debate. If you honestly have, and you've interpreted the research and studies differently than I do. Fine. No worries. We'll just have to disagree, but don't pretend to be the final authority on the subject. And neither will I.

so, the alcohol makes you take it and make it personal huh? You mean, the alcohol actually makes the situation worse and yet you do it? Wow. Just get stoned next time, and that wont happen. You see, weed doesn't work by shutting down some of the inhibitory functions of the brain like alcohol. That is why stoners are not getting into fights and driving like maniacs.

[StcChief]

LMAO "POT PLANET"

[teedubya]

* an acre of hemp produces more than 4 times the amount of paper than an acre of trees, and it grows back in less than a year
* Henry Ford made a hemp-mobile powered by hemp seed oil for FUEL.


Those two reasons alone are the no brainers.

[POND_OF_RED]

Couldn't find a better thread than this to ask if anyone went to the 311/Snoop Dogg concert tonight? I just got back and it was amazing. I think the entire Bonner Springs area was engulfed in a hemp cloud tonight. WHO'S GOT THE HERB?!?! SNOOOP DOGG! I took too much man...too much....