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Wile_E_Coyote
12-31-2004, 10:46 AM
Ascending, descending, plateaued: they are part of the vocabulary of NFL executives who make their living evaluating players.


Those words will be thrown around a lot in the coming weeks, and not just at Arrowhead Stadium. The end of the regular season means personnel meetings throughout the NFL as teams prepare for the off-season. Even those clubs involved in the playoffs find time to start evaluating their roster, pinpointing weaknesses and assessing potential answers to their problems.

That’s because right around the corner are the college all-star games, then the NFL Scouting Combine and the start of unrestricted free agency. The personnel clock never really stops ticking.

Ascending, descending, plateaued; the scouts and evaluators will talk about players in these terms. Ascending means a player on the way up, who has the ability to improve on his previous performances on the college or professional level. Descending defines a player on the way down, who has shown a drop in productivity. Plateaued describes a player who has reached a point where his performance on the field has stopped ascending, but has not yet started down the other side of the mountain. Generally, the career of a player who survives for any time in the league will go from ascending, to plateaued to descending; that’s a normal progression.

Take a look at the Chiefs roster and there are players that fit all three of those descriptions. For instance, Jared Allen is an ascending player.

The rookie defensive end has come in and made a mark in his first season and shows all the physical talents and intangibles (attitude, desire, intelligence) that indicate the best is yet to come.

Before he was injured, veteran safety Jerome Woods was showing the signs of a descending player. The productivity in Gunther Cunningham’s defense was not there when he was on the field. The question that must be answered by the personnel types around Arrowhead is whether that was due strictly to the change in schemes, or a drop in Woods athletic ability. Vonnie Holliday would fall into this category as well. Injuries slowed the veteran defensive lineman all season and that is also part of the equation.

A player can plateau, but then revive his career. Eddie Kennison did that this year. Lional Dalton did the same on defense. After the last several seasons with Denver and Washington, it appeared his career was about to end. Dalton revived his chances with a solid season. He’s not an ascending player, nor a descending player. Right now, he’s plateaued and that’s good enough to keep his spot in the league.

The best thing that’s happened to the Chiefs in 2004 is that they will finish the season with plenty of game tape evidence of nearly every player on their roster. Offensively, they don’t have much to judge on linemen Kevin Sampson, Johnathan Ingram and Brett Williams. Injury did the same for TE Kris Wilson, although they have a good idea of what he’s capable of pulling off. Third QB Damon Huard hasn’t had a chance to show what he can do.

Defensively, they haven’t seen much of LBs Keyaron Fox and Rich Scanlon and S Scott Connot.

That’s it, just eight of 53 players. It’s a good start for the Chiefs off-season.

Deberg_1990
12-31-2004, 11:04 AM
So what would Sims be then? Plateaued?? I guess thats the best we can ever expect out of this guy???

BigChiefFan
12-31-2004, 11:13 AM
Hey Gretz, 90% of our defensive players have plateauted, I don't need a ****ing article to tell me that.

BigChiefFan
12-31-2004, 12:08 PM
So what would Sims be then? Plateaued?? I guess thats the best we can ever expect out of this guy???
Sims definitely hasn't lived up to his billing, but I blame the Chiefs, they put WAY TOO MUCH stock into the combine.

whoman69
12-31-2004, 12:53 PM
They plateauted way down in the valley.

go bo
12-31-2004, 12:56 PM
They plateauted way down in the valley.dammit carl! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Calcountry
12-31-2004, 01:08 PM
They plateaued in New Orleans.

JimNasium
12-31-2004, 01:18 PM
I'm pretty sure that I'm descending.

Rain Man
01-01-2005, 01:22 PM
Sometimes you're condescending, too.

Logical
01-01-2005, 04:12 PM
Hey Gretz, 90% of our defensive players have plateauted, I don't need a ****ing article to tell me that.

I would say they are descending from an asshats plateau. Carl being the asshat.

RealSNR
01-01-2005, 04:19 PM
Seriously, is there any player on defense besides Jared Allen that Chiefs fans would really MISS if that player were to get cut?

The answer is no. Everyone is a shitty descender as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what DV saw in the current group of guys last offseason

Frankie
01-01-2005, 04:31 PM
Quote (Gretz):

"Offensively, they don’t have much to judge on linemen Kevin Sampson, Johnathan Ingram and Brett Williams. Injury did the same for TE Kris Wilson, although they have a good idea of what he’s capable of pulling off. Third QB Damon Huard hasn’t had a chance to show what he can do.

Defensively, they haven’t seen much of LBs Keyaron Fox and Rich Scanlon and S Scott Connot."

Battle, Sampson and Scanlon I would send to NFL Europe. Possibly Fox too.

RealSNR
01-01-2005, 04:33 PM
Quote (Gretz):

"Offensively, they don’t have much to judge on linemen Kevin Sampson, Johnathan Ingram and Brett Williams. Injury did the same for TE Kris Wilson, although they have a good idea of what he’s capable of pulling off. Third QB Damon Huard hasn’t had a chance to show what he can do.

Defensively, they haven’t seen much of LBs Keyaron Fox and Rich Scanlon and S Scott Connot."

Battle, Sampson and Scanlon I would send to NFL Europe. Possibly Fox too.I would send Sapp there, too. Who knows... might do wonders for him much the same way it did for Dante Hall

Frankie
01-01-2005, 04:38 PM
I would send Sapp there, too. Who knows... might do wonders for him much the same way it did for Dante Hall

Yes I forgot about him. Sapp could be our next Kevin Ross.... maybe.

Frankie
01-01-2005, 04:40 PM
I would send Sapp there, too. Who knows... might do wonders for him much the same way it did for Dante Hall

Ahem..... Bartee...too...maybe??

RealSNR
01-01-2005, 04:44 PM
Ahem..... Bartee...too...maybe??Isn't NFLE limited to players under a certain age?

I think Bartee is too old

2bikemike
01-01-2005, 04:50 PM
So where would Julian Battle fit in? He definately is not ascending. He can't be decending because he never acended. I would say he hasnt hit a Plateu either. I think he just busted.

Deberg_1990
01-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Ahem..... Bartee...too...maybe??

Uhhhh........NO! Hes a lost cause. I wouldnt wish him upon a high school team.

Toad
01-02-2005, 12:08 AM
Isn't NFLE limited to players under a certain age?

I think Bartee is too old

You could be right about the age limit. But don't send him 'cause he's too old...don't send him 'cause he's crappy. Send him 'packin instead.

Rausch
01-02-2005, 12:33 AM
I think Harts and Jr are also getting better. And it's way too early to give up on Battle...

Logical
01-02-2005, 01:20 AM
I think Harts and Jr are also getting better. And it's way too early to give up on Battle...I think with work in the weight room Siavii can become productive, never great but productive. Harts is rough still but there is hope. I see no hope for Battle unless they move him back to safety, he does not belong at CB.

BigChiefFan
01-02-2005, 01:32 AM
I think with work in the weight room Siavii can become productive, never great but productive. Harts is rough still but there is hope. I see no hope for Battle unless they move him back to safety, he does not belong at CB.I haven't given up on Battle, but why Carl continues to put a square peg in a round hole ie putting safeties at corner, I will never know. The Chiefs biggest problem is the put way too much stock into the combine and the combine numbers. See Sims. I think you have to put the majority of the player's potential on how well they played in college. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but if Carl picks another tweener I'm going to scream. Enough with the failed FIRST DAY projects!!!!

Rausch
01-02-2005, 03:08 AM
I see no hope for Battle unless they move him back to safety, he does not belong at CB.

Battle and Warfield are our only corners who show the athletic ability to stay with their man and make a play.

Battle's problems are mental, much like Bartee, not physical. Battle's problem is he is TOO physical. Bartee's problems make me feel sorry for him. He also shows the physical ability to stay with his man, and even be in good position to make the play, he just has NO ball awareness whatsoever...

htismaqe
01-02-2005, 07:45 AM
I haven't given up on Battle, but why Carl continues to put a square peg in a round hole ie putting safeties at corner, I will never know. The Chiefs biggest problem is the put way too much stock into the combine and the combine numbers. See Sims. I think you have to put the majority of the player's potential on how well they played in college. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but if Carl picks another tweener I'm going to scream. Enough with the failed FIRST DAY projects!!!!

Um, Sims' combine numbers weren't spectacular.

Sims was a DOMINANT force his senior year at North Carolina. If you get a chance go back and watch some of his games.

The problem with Sims is that he was the "safe" pick. He wasn't the most athletic DT on the board that year, or the fastest, or the strongest. But he was the least injured (see Henderson) with the best attitude (see Haynesworth and Bryant).

penchief
01-02-2005, 09:32 AM
I haven't given up on Battle, but why Carl continues to put a square peg in a round hole ie putting safeties at corner, I will never know. The Chiefs biggest problem is the put way too much stock into the combine and the combine numbers. See Sims. I think you have to put the majority of the player's potential on how well they played in college. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but if Carl picks another tweener I'm going to scream. Enough with the failed FIRST DAY projects!!!!

I think their cornerback philosophy for a long time was to have physical athletic corners who can play the bump and run and be able to defend against the bigger more athletic breed of wide receiver. The problem is that corners like Hasty and Carter are few and far between. So I think they try to find the same type of physical gifts in guys like Battle, Bartee, and Warfield even though they play safety.

The problem I have with it is that it seems to me that corner is one of the positions where a guy has corner skills or he doesn't. I know that guys get better as they grow in the pros but it seems like the guys that can really play corner have always played it well, even in college. Drafting safeties to play corner is not only a project but it's risk not worth taking if you don't know if the guy even has the skills to play corner, IMO. I would save those kind of things for rounds 6 and 7.

The way the rules are changing in favor of receivers, I'm not so sure that bigger and more athletic is better than a smaller, more skilled corner with a track-record of playing cornerback fairly well. Don't get me wrong, if we could find another Hasty I'd be all for it but in the meantime I'd like to have some real cornerbacks sitting back there.

IMO, Sims stills has the potential to mature into a good player. I think if he had LJ's desire we'd be a lot happier with him.

Skip Towne
01-02-2005, 09:43 AM
Sometimes you're condescending, too.
And sometimes he is just plain disigerant.