Is Will Shields a Hall of Famer? [Archive]

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:01 PM

Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962
Bob (Boomer) Brown (T) 1964-1973
Roosevelt Brown (T) 1953-1965
Lou Creekmur (T-G) 1950-1959
Joe DeLamielleure (G) 1973-1985
Dan Dierdorf (T) 1971-1983
Frank Gatski (C) 1946-1957
Forrest Gregg (T-G) 1956, 1958-1971
Lou Groza (T) (Also PK) 1946-1959, 1961-1967
John Hannah (G) 1973-1985
Stan Jones (T-G, also DT) 1954-1966
Jim Langer (C) 1970-1981
Larry Little (G) 1967-1980
Tom Mack (G) 1966-1978
Mike McCormack (T) 1951, 1954-1962
Ron Mix (T) 1960-1969, 1971 Mike Munchak (G) 1982-1993
Anthony Muñoz (T) 1980-1992
Jim Otto (C) 1960-1974
Jim Parker (G-T) 1957-1967
Jim Ringo (C) 1953-1967
Billy Shaw (G) 1961-1969
Art Shell (T) 1968-1982
Jackie Slater (T) 1976-1995
Bob St. Clair (T) 1953-1963
Dwight Stephenson (C) 1980-1987
Gene Upshaw (G) 1967-1981
Mike Webster (C) 1974-1990
Ron Yary (T) 1968-1982

tk13

01-12-2005, 08:01 PM

No way he gets in before Richard Dent.

:)

gblowfish

01-12-2005, 08:01 PM

Missed one game in career for injury, NFL man of the year for charity, multiple all pro, played entire career with one team. Blocked for Marcus Allen and Priest Holmes. Slam dunk, no doubt, one of the best ever. What else can the man do? OK...win a Super Bowl, but that's not his primary department. That's primarily up to King Carl, who's now on year 16 of the five year plan...

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:02 PM

I posted the list above just to point out that there are few guards in the HOF. I think that Will deserves to go... probably not a first ballot.

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:06 PM

I posted the list above just to point out that there are few guards in the HOF. I think that Will deserves to go... probably not a first ballot.
I disagree. He's a lock to go in on the first ballot.

Brock

01-12-2005, 08:06 PM

I posted the list above just to point out that there are few guards in the HOF. I think that Will deserves to go... probably not a first ballot.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Shields has been probably the best offensive lineman in the NFL for most of his career. Trust me, HOF voters know this.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:12 PM

That is absolutely ridiculous. Shields has been probably the best offensive lineman in the NFL for most of his career. Trust me, HOF voters know this.

Okay, lets delete this thread. I did not know that Brock knew so many Hall of Fame voters. Apparently this is not even up for debate. my bad.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:14 PM

I disagree. He's a lock to go in on the first ballot.

he plays a boring position on a team that has not played many championship games with him. I hope he is... but Willie Roaf has a better chance being a left tackle.

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:17 PM

Okay, lets delete this thread. I did not know that Brock knew so many Hall of Fame voters. Apparently this is not even up for debate. my bad.
Are you related to gochiefs?

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:18 PM

Are you related to gochiefs?

wow and inside-message-board joke.

the Talking Can

01-12-2005, 08:18 PM

If Will Shields isn't a HOF then no one is.

Phobia

01-12-2005, 08:18 PM

he plays a boring position on a team that has not played many championship games with him. I hope he is... but Willie Roaf has a better chance being a left tackle.

I think they're both undisputed HOFers. They might even go in together.

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:19 PM

wow and inside-message-board joke.
Why are you getting your panties in a twist just because some people disagree with you?

the Talking Can

01-12-2005, 08:22 PM

Will Shields is as good a OG as has ever played.

Coaches and Players know this. Most fans do too.

He's more of a lock than DT.

2bikemike

01-12-2005, 08:26 PM

I think they're both undisputed HOFers. They might even go in together.

The voice of reason.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:30 PM

Why are you getting your panties in a twist just because some people disagree with you?

i'm not. I thought it was funny. No offense.

Valiant

01-12-2005, 08:30 PM

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:31 PM

in the modern era these are only guards in the hall. Will will be in good company.

Lou Creekmur (T-G) 1950-1959
Joe DeLamielleure (G) 1973-1985
Forrest Gregg (T-G) 1956, 1958-1971
John Hannah (G) 1973-1985
Stan Jones (T-G, also DT) 1954-1966
Larry Little (G) 1967-1980
Tom Mack (G) 1966-1978
Jim Parker (G-T) 1957-1967
Billy Shaw (G) 1961-1969
Gene Upshaw (G) 1967-1981

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:33 PM

When teams talk about how dominating our line is, then you would understand that most football people know who will is.. no joe schmoe in new york, who is a casual fan will not a have a clue... But Will is a lock for the hof when he retires..

kiss my ass with the casual fan stuff. I have forgotten more chiefs games than you have seen. I am trying to make talk about this with a little bit of "big picture" reality.

Dr. Johnny Fever

01-12-2005, 08:34 PM

If this is a serious question, you have failed at life.
That pretty much says it for me too.

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:35 PM

kiss my ass with the casual fan stuff. I have forgotten more chiefs games than you have seen. I am trying to make talk about this with a little bit of "big picture" reality.
This the "getting your panties in a twist" I was referring to. WTF is your problem?

FloridaChief

01-12-2005, 08:36 PM

I know that Will Shields is not a household name anywhere but the mid-west

Not true at all. Most of my friends who are Bucs fans in particular and football fans in general, know who Will Shields is and are aware of his accomplishments.

Shields will go 1st round, IMO...

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:37 PM

This the "getting your panties in a twist" I was referring to. WTF is your problem?

dude, honestly - i have no problem.

Brock

01-12-2005, 08:37 PM

I have forgotten more chiefs games than you have seen.

Unlikely. You come across as very ignorant about football.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:39 PM

So the consensus is a no brianer... It is what I wanted to talk about.

When ever he decides to quit (please don't quit) we will have our 12 chief in the Hall

thanks!

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:40 PM

Unlikely. You come across as very ignorant about football.

suck my dick brock

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:41 PM

dude, honestly - i have no problem.
Yeah, I must have misunderstood you and the arrogant nature of that post. My bad. :rolleyes:

Brock

01-12-2005, 08:42 PM

suck my dick brock

Not interested in your alternative lifestyle, Gabe. Thanks anyway.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:44 PM

Yeah, I must have misunderstood you and the arrogant nature of that post. My bad. :rolleyes:

I an arrogant, over educated, over sexed, bad football fan North Easterner because I have the gall (the gall I tell you) to question Will Shields as a Hall of Famer.

Dartgod

01-12-2005, 08:45 PM

I an arrogant, over educated, over sexed, bad football fan North Easterner because I have the gall (the gall I tell you) to question Will Shields as a Hall of Famer.
No. It's because you have the gall to act like a dick when people disagree with you.

Eleazar

01-12-2005, 08:46 PM

1st ballot without question. Anyone who thinks otherwise should be rounded up and sent to an internment camp.

Brock

01-12-2005, 08:46 PM

I an arrogant, over educated, over sexed, bad football fan North Easterner because I have the gall (the gall I tell you) to question Will Shields as a Hall of Famer.

If gall is another name for ignorance, you've got it in spades.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:46 PM

Not interested in your alternative lifestyle, Gabe. Thanks anyway.

I am sorry I flew off the handle. I just want to talk about this subject because I have friends in New York who think that guards are second class citizens - I don't want to be told I am an idiot to even want to talk about it. Again, Sorry.

Phobia

01-12-2005, 08:51 PM

sometimes I get you and njchief confused. Which one of you actually lives in NYC?

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:54 PM

sometimes I get you and njchief confused. Which one of you actually lives in NYC?

I live in NYC. I don't know njchief.

Phobia

01-12-2005, 08:56 PM

I live in NYC. I don't know njchief.

Oh. I have a cousin living in NYC. His name is Charly. Do you know him?

TheNextStep

01-12-2005, 08:57 PM

gee brock, enlighten me.... having left Kansas City, I know that Will Shields is not a household name anywhere but the mid-west - plus he plays guard - not a sexy tackle position. I just want to know what everybody thinks.

Will Shields is a house-hold name to anybody who seriously watches football and he has been for quite some time. Perhaps random schmucks down at the sports bar - the ones who always seem to have the newest jerseys and say things like, "I don't know why the Raiders haven't used Charlie Garner this year" - may not know who Will Shields is or just how good he is at what he does... but people that watch football on more than just a casual basis have known about him for a long, long time.

Yes, he'll be in the Hall of Fame. There is absolutely no question about that.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:57 PM

Oh. I have a cousin living in NYC. His name is Charly. Do you know him?

charly? oh yeah. Me and Charly go way back.

nychief

01-12-2005, 08:58 PM

Will Shields is a house-hold name to anybody who seriously watches football and he has been for quite some time. Perhaps random schmucks down at the sports bar - the ones who always seem to have the newest jerseys and say things like, "I don't know why the Raiders haven't used Charlie Garner this year" - may not know who Will Shields is or just how good he is at what he does... but people that watch football on more than just a casual basis have known about him for a long, long time.

Yes, he'll be in the Hall of Fame. There is absolutely no question about that.

well said,

Demonpenz

01-12-2005, 10:08 PM

shields was on the 75th year all time players and that was like 6 years ago

Inspector

01-12-2005, 10:10 PM

I'll go with the no brainer response.

WilliamTheIrish

01-12-2005, 10:18 PM

I'd sure like for him to have a piece of jewelry to help him in.

nychief, that list represents some fine company shields will be keeping upon his enshrinement.

A third round pick to boot...

nychief

01-12-2005, 10:26 PM

shields was on the 75th year all time players and that was like 6 years ago

I WILL plead ignorance to that.

nychief

01-12-2005, 10:30 PM

Will actually wasn't on the 75th NFL team - at least according to the website.

OFFENSE

QB Sammy Baugh Washington Redskins (1937-52) 6-2 180 Texas Christian
QB Otto Graham Cleveland Browns (1946-55) 6-1 195 Northwestern
QB Joe Montana San Francisco 49ers (1979-92), Kansas City Chiefs (1993-94) 6-2 195 Notre Dame
QB Johnny Unitas Baltimore Colts (1956-72), San Diego Chargers (1973) 6-1 195 Louisville
RB Jim Brown Cleveland Browns (1957-65) 6-2 232 Syracuse
RB Marion Motley Cleveland Browns (1946-53), Pittsburgh Steelers (1955) 6-1 238 Nevada-Reno
RB Bronko Nagurski Chicago Bears (1930-37, 1943) 6-2 225 Minnesota
RB Walter Payton Chicago Bears (1975-87) 5-10 202 Jackson State
RB Gale Sayers Chicago Bears (1965-71) 6-0 200 Kansas
RB O.J. Simpson Buffalo Bills (1969-77), San Francisco 49ers (1978-79) 6-1 212 Southern California
RB Steve Van Buren Philadelphia Eagles (1944-51) 6-1 200 Louisiana State
WR Lance Alworth San Diego Chargers (1962-70), Dallas Cowboys (1971-72) 6-0 184 Arkansas
WR Raymond Berry Baltimore Colts (1955-67) 6-2 187 Southern Methodist
WR Don Hutson Green Bay Packers (1935-45) 6-1 180 Alabama
WR Jerry Rice San Francisco 49ers (1985-2000), Oakland Raiders (2001-present) 6-2 200 Miss. Valley State
TE Mike Ditka Chicago Bears (1961-66), Philadelphia Eagles (1967-68), Dallas Cowboys (1969-72) 6-3 225 Pittsburgh
TE Kellen Winslow San Diego Chargers (1979-87) 6-5 250 Missouri
T Roosevelt Brown New York Giants (1953-65) 6-3 255 Morgan State
T Forrest Gregg Green Bay Packers (1956, 1958-70) 6-4 250 Southern Methodist
T Anthony Muñoz Cincinnati Bengals (1980-92) 6-6 285 Southern California
G John Hannah New England Patriots (1973-85) 6-3 265 Alabama
G Jim Parker Baltimore Colts (1957-67) 6-3 273 Ohio State
G Gene Upshaw Oakland Raiders (1967-81) 6-5 255 Texas A&I
C Mel Hein New York Giants (1931-45) 6-2 225 Washington State
C Mike Webster Pittsburgh Steelers (1974-88), Kansas City Chiefs (1989-90) 6-2 250 Wisconsin

ChiTown

01-12-2005, 10:37 PM

I had no idea that this thread would be so damn entertaining........ ROFL

Yes, Shields is a first ballot guy. He's the most dominating OG of his era. Hands ****ing down.

nychief

01-12-2005, 10:40 PM

I think to make this official we should call him "future hall of famer" will shields from now on...

RNR

01-12-2005, 10:41 PM

Way too lazy to read all the replys, IMO yes.

chiefsfolife

01-12-2005, 10:42 PM

how the hell could any real fan not know who will shields is?????????best guard ever

nychief

01-12-2005, 10:44 PM

how the hell could any real fan not know who will shields is?????????best guard ever

Could there ever be a better NAME for an OL?

WILL SHIELDS?

RNR

01-12-2005, 10:50 PM

how the hell could any real fan not know who will shields is?????????best guard ever
Well I don't know about ever, but he is damn sure a Famer.

WebGem

01-13-2005, 12:21 AM

ROFL

I just read this whole thread.

alanm

01-13-2005, 01:14 AM

I'm sure there's a lot of teams kicking themselves for passing on Shields the 1st two rnds. Probably the misconception that Nebraska linemen have trouble pass blocking. If you look around the NFL there's a lot of Nebraska linemen on rosters around the League. Hell the guy was only a 3 time All American and won the Outland Trophy his senior year. John Hannah was probably one of the very best guards to ever play the game for the Patriots. Shields has been described as being on a plateau above him.

RNR

01-13-2005, 01:17 AM

I'm sure there's a lot of teams kicking themselves for passing on Shields the 1st two rnds. Probably the misconception that Nebraska linemen have trouble pass blocking. Hell the guy was only a 3 time All American and won the Outland Trophy his senior year. John Hannah was probably one of the very best guards to ever play the game for the Patriots. Shields has been described as being on a plateau above him.
Can't go there, Hannah is the best I have seen, and would stack Upshaw against him also. That said he is a Famer.

alanm

01-13-2005, 01:20 AM

Can't go there, Hannah is the best I have seen, and would stack Upshaw against him also. That said he is a Famer.Just going on the articles I've read of Coaches who have been around both. All I've seen have said that Shields is better.

Mr. Kotter

01-13-2005, 01:25 AM

I know OL are more difficult, particularly G, to get into the HOF. However, Will has earned it; I would be shocked if he isn't a first ballot HOFer--much more so than if they snub DT.

In my mind, there is no question. I am a Chief's fan, though. :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter

01-13-2005, 01:27 AM

I think to make this official we should call him "future hall of famer" will shields from now on...

You've figured it out. Congrats. :thumb:

RNR

01-13-2005, 01:36 AM

Just going on the articles I've read of Coaches who have been around both. All I've seen have said that Shields is better.
Thats cool! was not calling you out. There are many factors, training year round, diet, ect. Who is to say? I know one thing he is one of the best ever.

Ultra Peanut

01-13-2005, 01:52 AM

Oh. I have a cousin living in NYC. His name is Charly. Do you know him?ROFL

grandllama

01-13-2005, 01:55 AM

IMHO, that is the dumbest question ever asked on this board.... now in a few years when the voters get their vote, .... eh, who knows...

teedubya

01-13-2005, 02:04 AM

I think that he could be a first ballot HOF... however, I dont know how many first ballot Guards have been inducted... I think he will make it in first 3 years... definately... Im not confident that he is first ballot

bringbackmarty

01-13-2005, 03:19 AM

If i was on the hof selection committee, I would be seriously afraid for my life if I didn't vote him in first ballot. When he does quit, he will go down as the best guard ever. His work ethic, character, leadership and physical skills are unmatchable. He is
by far my favorite chief. He also has all of these attributes, and was not drafted during the "Vermiel Era", coincidence, I think not.

Red Dawg

01-13-2005, 06:56 AM

Hell yes! How could he not be one?

tomahawk kid

01-13-2005, 07:27 AM

I am curious if he is going to be a no brainer for the HOF, or if because of playing OL it will be a struggle. What are your thoughts?

Does a bear sh!t in the woods?

Dartgod

01-13-2005, 07:55 AM

Quick question. Does anyone know if any or how many of the other HOF guards were voted in on the first ballot? It doesn't say on the HOF site.

King_Chief_Fan

01-13-2005, 08:07 AM

Does a bear sh!t in the woods?

Is a frog's ass water tight?

Amnorix

01-13-2005, 08:48 AM

I know you guys might be knocked over with a feather by this, but Will Shields isn't known outside of KC, or the AFC West in general, or by football insiders, etc.

There are EXACTLY 6 spots every year for NFL Hall of Fame inductees.

I really, really doubt he's a first ballot guy. There's a backlog of pretty deserving guys that the committee wrestles with all the time. More importantly, Guards just aren't sexy.

That said, I'm sure he'll get in. 9 pro bowls is more than the average required to get into the HoF, and I think he's a lock. I'm just not sure about the first year (not at all sure).

DaWolf

01-13-2005, 09:11 AM

It would help his cause if he would have been part of a super bowl team or two. Still, IMO a first ballot HOF'er...

Brock

01-13-2005, 09:19 AM

I know you guys might be knocked over with a feather by this, but Will Shields isn't known outside of KC, or the AFC West in general, or by football insiders, etc.

Uh, yeah. That must be why he's in the pro bowl every year, along with being perenially All Pro.

RNR

01-13-2005, 09:36 AM

Quick question. Does anyone know if any or how many of the other HOF guards were voted in on the first ballot? It doesn't say on the HOF site.
Jim Parker (G-T) 1957-1967
Gene Upshaw (G) 1967-1981
Forrest Gregg (T-G) 1956, 1958-1971
John Hannah (G) 1973-1985

Were all first timers, Upshaw and Hannah are the only true gaurds to get in first ballot.

Amnorix

01-13-2005, 09:44 AM

Uh, yeah. That must be why he's in the pro bowl every year, along with being perenially All Pro.

I'm saying that ordinary football fans don't pay a helluva lot of attention to Guards, even ones that have as stellar a resume and reputation as Shields.

It doesn't help, of course, that the NFL is packaged the way it is (pump the pretty boy QBs and a few stars, and ignore the rest), or that KC wasn't a very good team for many of the past 8 or so years (not many playoff appearances, etc.)

Amnorix

01-13-2005, 09:45 AM

Jim Parker (G-T) 1957-1967
Gene Upshaw (G) 1967-1981
Forrest Gregg (T-G) 1956, 1958-1971
John Hannah (G) 1973-1985

Were all first timers, Upshaw and Hannah are the only true gaurds to get in first ballot.

and John Hannah is generally recognized as the best guard, possibly the best lineman, of all time.

It's REALLY tough to get in on the first ballot as an interior offensive lineman. That's just the way it is.

WilliamTheIrish

01-13-2005, 11:00 AM

I know you guys might be knocked over with a feather by this, but Will Shields isn't known outside of KC, or the AFC West in general, or by football insiders, etc.

I'm saying that ordinary football fans don't pay a helluva lot of attention to Guards, even ones that have as stellar a resume and reputation as Shields.

It doesn't help, of course, that the NFL is packaged the way it is (pump the pretty boy QBs and a few stars, and ignore the rest), or that KC wasn't a very good team for many of the past 8 or so years (not many playoff appearances, etc.)

As you can see, that's not at all what you said. It was deft backpedal, however.

Shields needs a SB appearance to get a first ballot bid.

However, his career mirrors that of Hannah, save that all important SB appearance.

So if football insiders don't know about a guy who has 9 PB appearances, a handful a All Pro honors, several playoff appearances, and almost 200 consecutive starts, then I'd contend they are not at all football insiders.

They are casual fans.

Brock

01-13-2005, 11:16 AM

I'm saying that ordinary football fans don't pay a helluva lot of attention to Guards, even ones that have as stellar a resume and reputation as Shields.

Casual fans don't elect hall of famers. If they did, there would be no one elected but quarterbacks and running backs and wide receivers. Knowledgeable people know who Will Shields is.

Dartgod

01-13-2005, 11:39 AM

Casual fans don't elect hall of famers. If they did, there would be no one elected but quarterbacks and running backs and wide receivers.
And Dieon Sanders. :eek:

BIG_DADDY

01-13-2005, 02:27 PM

He will absolutely make it. I hope DT makes it this time.

Valiant

01-13-2005, 02:35 PM

Just going on the articles I've read of Coaches who have been around both. All I've seen have said that Shields is better.

And they are also refering to the talent level then compared to now with everybody bigger, stronger and faster...

Valiant

01-13-2005, 02:36 PM

I'm saying that ordinary football fans don't pay a helluva lot of attention to Guards, even ones that have as stellar a resume and reputation as Shields.

It doesn't help, of course, that the NFL is packaged the way it is (pump the pretty boy QBs and a few stars, and ignore the rest), or that KC wasn't a very good team for many of the past 8 or so years (not many playoff appearances, etc.)

We said your casual fans will not have a clue who he is.. but they are not the ones who vote... any real hardcore fan of football knows who will shields is...

siberian khatru

01-13-2005, 02:38 PM

However, his career mirrors that of Hannah, save that all important SB appearance.

And the countless Sports Illustrated articles blowing him for a decade.

StcChief

01-13-2005, 02:45 PM

Will Shields rep wil get him in maybe not 1st ballot.

DT is a toss up for 1st ballot.

Amnorix

01-13-2005, 02:45 PM

As you can see, that's not at all what you said. It was deft backpedal, however.

Let me clarify:

The people who definitely know Shields:

1. Chiefs fans
2. AFC West hard-core fans
3. Football insiders (writers, players, coaches, scouts, etc.)

The ones who don't:

1. NFC fans (quick -- name ANY offensive linemen in the NFC except (1) Orlando Pace, (2) any former Chiefs player who went to the NFC (i.e. Tait), and (3) that left tackle for the Seahawks who gets franchised every year whose name is currently escaping me).

2. Casual NFL fans (i.e. most of them)

If you can name 10 offensive linemen in the NFC, then you're way ahead of me, and I consider myself a pretty big football fan. I definitely could NOT name any NFC interior linemen except Kruetz (or whatever the Center for the Bears is named), and Damien Woody, who was a former Patriot who went to the Lions last offseason.

cdcox

01-13-2005, 04:33 PM

While I couldn't rattle them off, just looking at a few rosters showed several guys I've heard of. Larry Allen is "pretty good".

Todd Stussie
Matt Stinchcomb
Larry Allen
Flozell Adams
Adam Timmerman
Steve Hutchinson

Ultra Peanut

01-13-2005, 04:34 PM

TONY MAYBERRY!!!!!!!

Err...

heapshake

01-13-2005, 04:56 PM

Let me clarify:

If you can name 10 offensive linemen in the NFC, then you're way ahead of me, and I consider myself a pretty big football fan. I definitely could NOT name any NFC interior linemen except Kruetz (or whatever the Center for the Bears is named), and Damien Woody, who was a former Patriot who went to the Lions last offseason.

I'm not sure I'd call anyone who doesn't think of Larry Allen as a big football fan. Its also pretty sad you didn't name Hutchinson or Matt Birk.

As far as naming 10 linemen in addition to Allen, Hutch, and Birk I thought of Kyle Turley, Bryan McKinney, Ruben Brown, Pork Chop Womach, Diehl (granted I can't think of his first name), Tom Nutten, Adam Timmerman, Flozell Adams, Marco Rivera, John Runyan, and Jordan Gross. Diehl, Brown, Rivera, Timmerman, and Nutten are all interior linemen.