Bellicheck is not a genious, he has top players.

[Red Dawg]

No coaches are genious's. They all know football, the difference is players. If Gun had the front seven that NE has then we would playing in the AFC Championship this year. Don't give me this "he shut down Manning" crap either. The field was sloppy and that hurt the Colts more than the Pats did. The first game of the year they went through NE defense like butter. James had 200 yards rushing but he fumbled in the red zone twice with one being on the goal line and they lost. Their secondary might be banged up but the front seven is the most important part of any defense.

Look at our offense from Vermeils first year here and look at it now. Did he all of a sudden get great new ideas or better players?

[RNR]

A couple of Colts players stated that the Patroits showed Peyton things he had not seen. It is pretty hard not to give the guy his due with what he has done. Free agency, salary cap, injuries to key players has not kept him from making a run at a 3rd Superbowl. Hard to argue with those results.

[Chiefnj]

He has wide receivers playing corner and they aren't letting Peyton exploit them. It's the coaching. It's the development of players which is a facet of coaching. Their best lineman was out with injury and it didn't matter.

[the Talking Can]

Bellicheck is a genious.

He lined a beer keg up at CB and held the Colt's to 3 points.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I think it's part coaching/part players. The Patriots have both. The Chiefs have neither.

[ROYC75]

It's a two way street, coaching and talent. One can't survive without the other.

[Amnorix]

It's a two way street, coaching and talent. One can't survive without the other.

Ding, ding, ding!

[Deberg_1990]

Give him his props.....he deserves it. He hasnt won 2 out of 3 Super Bowls just by luck. Hell, ill bet he could almost get Bartee to become a player........Almost....

[Spicy McHaggis]

If Belicheck isn't a genious then I guess Shannarat is a single celled amoeba.

[WebGem]

It's a two way street, coaching and talent. One can't survive without the other.
This is 100% true. But, if anyone is going to tell me Belichick isn't a genious..they are retarded. That guy is the best thing the NFL has seen in a long time. I wish that somehow he would have ended up in KC, I really, really do.

[The Bad Guy]

I love people that try to discredit the amazing accomplishments of others.

What amazing players does Belichick have on defense? Seymour was out, so was Ty Law last week and he kept the all-time record holder for passing TDs in a season from scoring.

That's freakin amazing.

[Jenson71]

No, the guy's a football genius.

[tk13]

Not to mention he's had a WR playing CB, Seymour and Mike Vrabel playing TE... if he's not a genius then he just kinda has his own "profile" (*ducks to avoid gunfire*) of guys he wants and doesn't bring in anybody who doesn't fit it, guys who want to play hard, who believe in his team concept, some who don't mind playing on both sides of the ball, veterans who've had little success who are hungry for a championship, etc....

[ChiefsCountry]

How come Belicheck is a genious now, but an idiot with the Browns? Still haven't figured that one out yet.

[morphius]

How come Belicheck is a genious now, but an idiot with the Browns? Still haven't figured that one out yet.
The same way DV was a genius at his last two jobs, but now...

[Taco John]

No coaches are genious's. They all know football, the difference is players.



Whatever.

If that was the case, then why didn't you guys just hang onto Marty forever? HEll, why fire coaches at all? Just tenure them, and fire the GM until he gets it right.

:rolleyes:

[Taco John]

How come Belicheck is a genious now, but an idiot with the Browns? Still haven't figured that one out yet.



A little thing called winning, perchance?

[CHIEF4EVER]

Belichik makes Shanarat look like a moron. He didn't get his SB rings handed to him by a HOF QB that was already there before he took charge and he didn't cheat on the salary cap to get his rings either.

[Eleazar]

They've won 55 games in 4 years. No matter how much talent you have that's not easy to do.

Notwithstanding the 7-0 playoff record.

They have injuries and play every time of team you can find and still get it done.

You can't draw up a blueprint to beat them. You just have to play a perfect game and hope they make a bunch of mistakes. Which they don't.

And I have a hard time thinking they are loaded with marquee players.

All in all, I give this thread 5 out of 5: :fart: :fart: :fart: :fart: :fart:

[stevieray]

The Pats are the closest thing to pre FA "dynasty" team out there.

It really is amazing what they've accomplished, in a league that has been redesigned for parity.

[Eleazar]

Whatever.

If that was the case, then why didn't you guys just hang onto Marty forever? HEll, why fire coaches at all? Just tenure them, and fire the GM until he gets it right.

:rolleyes:

damnit people.. don't make me agree with Taco.

If all coaches just "know football" then who cares who the coach is? Why don't we just hire Jerry Glanville and save a few bucks?

[morphius]

The Pats are the closest thing to pre FA "dynasty" team out there.

It really is amazing what they've accomplished, in a league that has been redesigned for parity.
Especially with dumping off players looking for a big pay day. Its a bit like the Eagles in the NFC, except the Pats actually get the job done.

He probably isn't a genious, but he knows how to utilize his players and knows how to beat anyone in the league.

[warpaint99]

Tom Brady and offensive co. Wise are big factors in them winning super bowls.

When Billichik coached Cleveland and nobody thought much of them.

[teedubya]

I think it's part coaching/part players. The Patriots have both. The Chiefs have neither.

the Chiefs actually have LESS than neither.

[ChiefsCountry]

It also helped the Patriots that the NFL helped them out in 2001. I hate the Raiders and Rams with a passion but those teams both got screwed in the Patriots magical run that year.

[RNR]

When Billichik coached Cleveland and nobody thought much of them.
I get where you are coming from. Rumor has it, when Jesus first started, he tried a couple miracles; he put his hand on a cripple man, and he walked with a limp, then he laid his hand on a blind man, he could see, but only out of one eye. After practice he got it right. Yes, I'm being satorical, Billichik is no Jesus, but to bring up a guys first job, before he got a chance to practice his craft is a tad weak in my opinion.

[Taco John]

More than a tad. =-

[tk13]

Here's a stat for you, this weekend will be the 7th Championship Game Bill Belichick has been involved in over the last 19 seasons. Two as defensive coordinator for the Giants, one as a defensive assistant for New England, one as a defensive assistant for the Jets, and now three with New England as head coach. If he beats Pittsburgh it'll be his 6th Super Bowl in that span. I think that is pretty amazing.

[htismaqe]

I see people keep bringing up the Browns...does anybody remember the players on that team? Does anybody remember what they were going through with the stadium issue? Schottenheimer and Co. had loaded that team up for a SB run and they were shot. Kosar had to be replaced, it was in BAD shape.

Let's don't forget, some pretty good coaches came off of that staff, like Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban.

[Otter]

No coaches are genious's. They all know football
Does this mean that all mechanical engineers are equal? How about programmers? Matchmatics professors?

Gunther Cunningham when he was a head coach was equal to Bill Belicheck?

That's just plain stupid.

[Amnorix]

It also helped the Patriots that the NFL helped them out in 2001. I hate the Raiders and Rams with a passion but those teams both got screwed in the Patriots magical run that year.

1. The tuck rule IS a rule. Whether you like it or not, it IS A RULE. The NFL has said, many times, that the ref got it right. On top of everything else, it shouldn't have been a fumble because Woodson did a chop to Brady's HELMET to help cause the "fumble".

What part of that do you not agree with?


2. How did the NFL screw the Rams in the Super Bowl? Hell, they had an advantage because the stupid thing was played on turf. God forbid any Super Bowl should ever be played in any kind of bad weather. The sponsors might not like cold weather.... :shake: :shake:

[Red Dawg]

damnit people.. don't make me agree with Taco.

If all coaches just "know football" then who cares who the coach is? Why don't we just hire Jerry Glanville and save a few bucks?

Give them our LB's and give us theirs. Would he have won all these games? Of course not. We of all fans should know better.

[KC Jones]

The Patriots success is a reflection of their entire organization. Bellicheck has A LOT to do with that. Drop him in another organization and he may not do near as well. Genius? I seriously doubt his IQ is of the genius level, however he is an extremely accomplished coach and he is clearly a creative innovator who gets the most out of his personnel. Right now he looks like he may go down as one of the best NFL coaches of all time. His mentor Parcells certainly will.

Their secondary on paper should be just as bad as ours but it's not. That's because they have better players elsewhere on defense, because they are doing a better job coaching their players, and because they are better at keeping an offense off balance by mixing up their defensive scheme. Most of that success should be laid at Bellicheks feet.

[The Bad Guy]

Give them our LB's and give us theirs. Would he have won all these games? Of course not. We of all fans should know better.

What do you have a crystal ball?

What makes Vrabel, who was a Steeler before he went to NE, so special?

Take Bruschi out and put him on the Chiefs is he as good? Absolutely not.

Know why? Because Belichick is a superior coach who gets the most out of his players.

He has his 4th and 5th cornerbacks playing a majority of the time and he WINS. He took a WR and put him as his nickel back and beat PEYTON MANNING.

Why is this so hard for you to get?

Sometimes I think we have some of the dumbest message board posters in the world on Chiefs Planet.

[Calcountry]

Give him his props.....he deserves it. He hasnt won 2 out of 3 Super Bowls just by luck. Hell, ill bet he could almost get Bartee to become a player........Almost....
Agreed, because he would have threatened to cut that SOB 2 years ago.

[Calcountry]

I love people that try to discredit the amazing accomplishments of others.

What amazing players does Belichick have on defense? Seymour was out, so was Ty Law last week and he kept the all-time record holder for passing TDs in a season from scoring.

That's freakin amazing.
This is why they keep winning. The message to the stars is, don't get comfortable, we can win with or without you. Get on our train, or get off our track.

[CHIEF4EVER]

This is why they keep winning. The message to the stars is, don't get comfortable, we can win with or without you. Get on our train, or get off our track.

Ding ding ding!!!!!!!!! We have a winner. :thumb:

[Eleazar]

Sometimes I think we have some of the dumbest message board posters in the world on Chiefs Planet.

me too - rep

This reminds me of listening to whitlock's old morning show on 810

"Man, Jason, Lombardi is so overrated. He just knew football and had the best players. Buddy Ryan could have torn up the NFL with that team. I'll listen off the air."

[cadmonkey]

The field was sloppy and that hurt the Colts more than the Pats did. The first game of the year they went through NE defense like butter. James had 200 yards rushing but he fumbled in the red zone twice with one being on the goal line and they lost. Their secondary might be banged up but the front seven is the most important part of any defense.


1. The field was frozen, not sloppy. No one was slipping because of mud, it was because the ground was like a brick.

2. The Front seven was the exact same as it was when they played the Colts in the opener, minus Seymour who is the best of the seven.

[Bearcat]

Look at our offense from Vermeils first year here and look at it now. Did he all of a sudden get great new ideas or better players?

Rome wasn't built in a day.


How come Belicheck is a genious now, but an idiot with the Browns? Still haven't figured that one out yet.

That's easy... he wasn't ready the first time......

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/10680254.htm

Crisis with Browns helps Belichick become better coach

http://www.kansascity.com/images/common/spacer.gif
By TERRY PLUTO
http://www.kansascity.com/images/common/spacer.gif
Akron Beacon Journal
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AKRON, Ohio -

...

THE DIFFERENCES

What's different about Belichick since Cleveland?

He no longer is insulting in press conferences. He can be so boring that he'd drive a caffeine addict into a coma, but he comes across mostly as a normal coach.

"Now he combs his hair," joked Kevin Byrne, the public relations director of the Baltimore Ravens who had the same job with the Browns during the Belichick Era.

Byrne said he desperately tried to convince Belichick the media events were important, but never made much of an impact.

"He just considered them an interruption of his real job," Byrne said. "He had us tape his coach's show at 6 a.m. I'd walk into his office at 5:50 a.m., and he'd be asleep on the cot. His wife sent nice sweaters for him to wear, but he wanted to do them in an old sweatshirt. He'd yawn, rub his eyes. It wasn't exactly great TV."

Belichick still pays little attention to clothes, but he has learned that press conferences are a way for him to communicate with fans and players. He has a member of his front office critique them so he can make sure he's communicating the right messages.

"With the Browns, he had a press conference every Monday during the season at noon," Byrne said. "I'd go get him in the film room, and he'd act like I wasn't there before finally going to do it."

Now, Belichick can even appear engaging in some of his brief TV spots on different shows.

"He's not afraid to smile," Holley said. "He's stopped sleeping in his office and spends more time with his family, which has helped him. He wants to have the right image. The one thing he didn't like about my book was me quoting him using bad language. He knows he said those things, but now he'll never swear in public."

It's not about Belichick wanting to become a hot corporate salesman. He doesn't sell much of anything, and often gives part of his coach's show salary to his assistants.

"Bill doesn't like bringing attention to himself," Byrne said. "He wants it on the players. But he also has figured out that communication with the media and the public is a big part of his job. I give him credit for that."

MORE CHANGES

Belichick has made other changes.

With the Browns, he took too many chances on players with questionable attitudes. He did too much himself. He was so sure of his ability as a coach, he thought he could mold people, change personalities and build a winner with the power of his sheer will.

There were too many like Andre Rison, Jerry Ball, Ed King, Craig Powell and others who either brought baggage to the Browns - or were just not good football players worthy of their high draft positions.

Cleveland was where Belichick made the mistakes of a rookie general manager/coach, and it happened with an owner going broke.

As one close friend to Belichick said, "We all look back and see it was an impossible situation, and much of it was Art's fault."

Blaming Modell has been a way for those from Belichick's Cleveland days to come back together. Many realize now they were pawns in a much bigger game away from the field, because Model was plotting to move to Baltimore.

Another change is Belichick giving power to vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli to help him pick players. He allows his coordinators more freedom to put together game plans. He concentrates more on the big picture and does a better job of delegating.

He has trained coaches to coach like him - which makes coaching easier for him.

"For the book, I sat in during the team meetings," Holley said. "Believe me, Romeo Crennel put together the defensive game plan that shut down Peyton Manning. Romeo makes the calls on defense, (assistant) Charlie Weis does on offense. Bill has input during the week, but the coordinators really do it."

By comparison, there were years in Cleveland when Belichick either served as offensive or defensive coordinator - and head coach.
"He's just more secure with himself," Holley said. "He now has captains meetings every Tuesday night where the seven captains can tell him anything the players have on their minds. He really does listen and he has taken their suggestions. It's not just his way or the highway anymore."

Sometimes, a man needs a crisis such as being fired to make needed changes. Spending five more years as a defensive coordinator after being fired by the Browns gave him time to reflect and plan for when he received another chance to be a head coach.
"He wouldn't be as good a coach today without having been through all that in Cleveland," Holley said. "It turned out to be one of the best things that happened to him."

[htismaqe]

big long article about why BB failed in Cleveland

That article pretty much affirms everything I said earlier in this thread.

[Straight, No Chaser]

No coaches are genious's. They all know football, the difference is players...

ROFL
When the New England Patriots upset the St. Louis Rams [Super Bowl XXXVI], I recall reading a sports article that touted Coach Bill Belicheck as a football strategic genius. When Coach Belichek's father was asked about this, he said he found it odd to call someone a genius whose job was to walk up and down a football field.

I don't think atheletes or coaches as "genius".

There's a story about Einstien that is told in Princeton of a plumber who was called to Einstein's home to repair the plumbing. Einstein greeted him warmly and even gave him a quick tour of the house. As the plumber looked at Einstein's library, he commented that it must have taken a long time to read all those books. Einstein replied that he was in fact a slow reader and had not finished reading most of them. The plumber's puzzled look evoked a further explanation from Einstein who said he had a habit of reading one paragraph, closing the book and thinking about what he read for a week...


--->

[cadmonkey]

ROFL
When the New England Patriots upset the St. Louis Rams, I recall reading a sports article that touted Coach Bill Belicheck as a football strategic genius. When Coach Belichek's father was asked about this, he said he found it odd to call someone a genius whose job was to walk up and down a football field.

I don't think atheletes or coaches as "genius".

There's a story about Einstien that is told in Princeton of a plumber who was called to Einstein's home to repair the plumbing. Einstein greeted him warmly and even gave him a quick tour of the house. As the plumber looked at Einstein's library, he commented that it must have taken a long time to read all those books. Einstein replied that he was in fact a slow reader and had not finished reading most of them. The plumber's puzzled look evoked a further explanation from Einstein who said he had a habit of reading one paragraph, closing the book and thinking about what he read for a week...


--->

:spock: