NFBT: High School Students Required To Do Homework Over Summer Vacation?

[The Rick]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan05/294687.asp

Just saw this in our local news here in Milwaukee. Basically, a parent has filed a lawsuit against the school because teachers at the school are giving out homework assignments over the summer. These homework assignments are required to be completed and are actually graded.

WTF? Does this happen all over the place? I graduated from high school 10 years ago and we weren't given homework over the summer vacation. While I'm not sure filing a lawsuit is the correct way to approach this (I think there are too many frivolous lawsuits as it is), I can certainly understand why.

Has anyone heard of anything like this before? I know there's at least one teacher here...is this common?

[Mr. Kotter]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan05/294687.asp....
Has anyone heard of anything like this before? I know there's at least one teacher here...is this common?

It's not common. If you sign up for Advaced Placement or Honors type courses, then you should expect that sort of thing. As a teacher though, I don't think it should be "required" of average students, no.

[Fat Elvis]

My daughter goes to school year round. I don't see what the big deal would be. If anything, it keeps the mind from getting mushy during that three month hiatus.

[cdcox]

My daugther attends a parochial school and she has a summer reading list (3-4 books) and required service hours. Discussion and written assignments based on the reading list take place when they return to school. I don't have any problem with this policy, personally. In fact anything that K-12 can do to improve student education is a-okay in my book.

[Ultra Peanut]

That's dumbolicious.

[NewChief]

Looks like the kid was in an honors Pre-Cal course. It's fairly common practice for Honors classes. It looks like these assignments might have been a little over the top in length, though (one of the three was 16 pages long).

Here's an example of teacher's getting it from both sides, though. We're expected to increase student performance. When we make an effort to do so by eliminating the 2 months of reteaching that must occur every year at the beginning of the school year, we're sued for it.

My main problem with the instructor's methodology is that he isn't providing feedback to his students as they complete each assignment, instead giving them lump feedback upon completion of the entirety of the homework. I suppose the assignments could be set up so that the student can self-assess, but for the assigment to be of true value the students need to get timely, granular assessment and have their progress and comprehension monitored frequently.

[Saulbadguy]

Eh...it would just be more homework I didn't do.

[NewChief]

Eh...it would just be more homework I didn't do.

It's probably also just more homework that the teacher doesn't truly grade.;)

[Herzig]

My daughter goes to school year round. I don't see what the big deal would be. If anything, it keeps the mind from getting mushy during that three month hiatus.

Very True. As a teacher, I can tell you that in the U.S., most teachers spend the 1st month or two of school just getting kids trained and to "use" their brains again.

FWIW, I never give homework over the summer. I hate grading the stuff. No one really figures those countless hours we spend at home grading and planning into our pay. So, really with summers off(2 months), it really probably evens out in the end.

[Rausch]

You can't complete some homework in 3 months it really doesn't matter what life throws at you after that.

My g/f's kids go to school for 3 months, then get a month off, then 3 months followed by a month off, etc. Hell, I wish I'd have done that.

[Saulbadguy]

No one really figures those countless hours we spend at home grading and planning into our pay. So, really with summers off(2 months), it really probably evens out in the end.
I call shenanigans. Most teachers can get everything done at work, especially after they have done it a couple of years. This gives them enough lesson plans so they can just recycle it over the years.

I'm not saying this is good, but thats how it works.

[NewChief]

Oh good lord. Now we're into arguing about whether teachers work hard enough, are lazy, or under/over paid

[Saulbadguy]

Oh good lord. Now we're into arguing about whether teachers work hard enough, are lazy, or under/over paid
It was bound to happen.

[Mr. Kotter]

Lord knows teachers are the only ones who work more than 40 hours a week.

But they only pay us for 30 hours.... :(

[|Zach|]

This was common among honors courses at my school.

What a dumb crybaby move on the student's famlies part.

[Bob Dole]

Back at Bob Dole's high school, if you were planning to take Biology, you were expected to collect bugs during the summer prior to the class.

[NewChief]

Back at Bob Dole's high school, if you were planning to take Biology, you were expected to collect bugs during the summer prior to the class.

Did getting a case of the crabs count?

[Mr. Kotter]

Yeah... when I took AP Lit in HS ..

They let kids from the shortbus into AP Lit at your school?

[BIG_DADDY]

My godson has received summer vacation homework for the last two years here in California. He also averages about 2 hours homework a night. He still says he doesn't have one teacher that actually teaches him anything other than his woodshop teacher. They write the chapters to read on the board and give them an assignment. I am convinced we don't need teachers for this. It would be much cheaper to give each student a computer to use and run the program like they run these online universities now.

[NewChief]

I am convinced we don't need teachers for this. It would be much cheaper to give each student a computer to use and run the program like they run these online universities now.

Your Godson is in a shitty school.

[|Zach|]

You get out of learning what you put into it. Even in highschool.

[Mr. Kotter]

My godson has received summer vacation homework for the last two years here in California. He also averages about 2 hours homework a night. He still says he doesn't have one teacher that actually teaches him anything other than his woodshop teacher. They write the chapters to read on the board and give them an assignment. I am convinced we don't need teachers for this. It would be much cheaper to give each student a computer to use and run the program like they run these online universities now.

Your godson goes to the kind of school that NCLB will, hopefully, shutdown.

MOST schools, the vast majority, are not that bad. Many are actually quite good--better than many "private" schools given the lack of parental support, motivation, and ability of the average public school student as compared to the average private school student.

Private schools turn diamonds into jewelry, if they work. Often public schools are asked to turn coal into jewelry....and we are surprised when they can't. :shake:

[Lzen]

I don't agree with lawsuits. But I think it's crappy that the schools are moving their way to school year round. These are kids. They need to be allowed to be kids. Do kids things in the summer and recharge their batteries. They don't need homework. Unless, of course, they failed during the regular school year and need summer school.

[Hammock Parties]

SD, what do you teach?

[Mr. Kotter]

SD, what do you teach?

Sorry...thought you asked where.

Social Studies: History & Government.

[Mr. Kotter]

Yeah, I'm mentally retarded.

Somehow not only did I sneak into a few AP courses in HS, I made my way into an engineering school and an $80K/yr job.

Don't tell anyone my secret, 'kay?

Okay.... :thumb:

(no thanks for teein' that up for you? :shrug: )

:p

[Saulbadguy]

Yeah, I'm mentally retarded.

Somehow not only did I sneak into a few AP courses in HS, I made my way into an engineering school and an $80K/yr job.

Don't tell anyone my secret, 'kay?
Handi-capable, eh?

[Hammock Parties]

SD....

What?

[Mr. Kotter]

What?

Sorry....I'm tryin' to work too....

...thought you asked "where?"

Social Studies: History & Government.

[Rausch]

Don't tell anyone my secret, 'kay?

I promise not to tell...

[Herzig]

Your godson goes to the kind of school that NCLB will, hopefully, shutdown.

MOST schools, the vast majority, are not that bad. Many are actually quite good--better than many "private" schools given the lack of parental support, motivation, and ability of the average public school student as compared to the average private school student.

Private schools turn diamonds into jewelry, if they work. Often public schools are asked to turn coal into jewelry....and we are surprised when they can't. :shake:

Most the kids that move where I teach in Arkansas from California are way behind in all areas. Surprising, huh?

The Arkansas state legislature just filed a motion yesterday to eliminate art and music teachers from elementary school. They are going to require elementary school teachers (most who don't have any training in these areas) to teach art and music in their classrooms. How much art and music will these kids get? Probably not much depending on the teacher.

These are the direct results of NLCB folks. All that is important are test results that don't really even measure an individual student's progress on a year to year basis. The scores of my current students are measured only against my next year's class. How can you compare two different individual's results to measure learning? It's just plain stupid.

:shake:

[Jenson71]

Yeah, I'm mentally retarded.

Somehow not only did I sneak into a few AP courses in HS, I made my way into an engineering school and an $80K/yr job.

Don't tell anyone my secret, 'kay?

Damn, and you're 25? Just take it easy on the liver, mang, and you're doing good for yourself. Were you good at math in HS?

I know a few retards in AP English, but whatever...

[Herzig]

WTF? That's dumb.

Yep, it is. It basically eliminates the requirement for admin. to hire music and art teachers(which most will probably do to save $$$). It won't necessary happen everywhere...but in the poorer districts this will probably happen.

Here's the bill:

CALL YOUR HOUSE MEMBERS AND ASK THEM TO VOTE AGAINST
HB 1034!

HB1034,
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/ftproot/bills/2005/public/HB1034.pdf

Today the House Education Committee gave a do-pass recommendation to
this bill, which would remove the requirement for 60 minutes of both art
and music, to be taught by a certified art or music teacher, beginning
next year. AEA opposes the bill.

The bill's primary sponsor was Rep. Shirley Walters (R-Greenwood).
Other sponsors were Reps. Johnny Key (R-Mountain Home), David Cook
(D-Williford), Nathan (D-Dardanelle), George, Rick Green (R-Van Buren),
Dewayne Mack (D-Glenwood), Mark Martin (R-Prairie Grove), Wayne Nichols
(D-Marked Tree), James R. Norton (R-Harrison), Charles Ormond (D-Morrilton),
Benny Petrus (D-Stuttgart), Beverly Pyle (R-Cedarville), Tommy Roebuck
(D-Arkadelphia), J. R. Rogers (D-Walnut Ridge), Rick Saunders (D-Hot
Springs), John Paul Wells (D-Paris), Doug Matayo (R-Springdale), Johnnie
Bolin (D-Crossett), Eric Harris (R-Lowell), Sid Rosenbaum (R-Little
Rock), and Scott Sullivan (D-DeQueen). Senate sponsors are Sens. James
Wilkinson (D-Greenwood), Paul Miller (D-Melbourne), and Shawn Womack
(R-Mountain Home).

Education Committee members voting against the bill were Reps. Nancy
Duffy Blount (D-Marianna), Linda Chesterfield (D-Little Rock), Joyce
Elliott (D-Sherwood), Jodie Mahony (D-El Dorado), Betty Pickett (D-Conway),
and David Rainey (D-Dumas).

Those voting for the bill were Reps. Bill Abernathy (D-Mena), David
Cook (D-Williford), Tommy Dickinson (D-Newport), Marilyn Edwards
(D-Fayetteville), Curren Everett (D-Salem), Dwight Fite (D-Benton), Robert
Jeffrey (D-Camden), Mike Kenney (R-Siloam Springs), Mark Martin (R-Prairie
Grove), James Norton (R-Harrison), Rick Saunders (D-Hot Springs),
Shirley Walters (R-Greenwood), and Jeff Wood (D-Sherwood).

This bill is thought to be an administrators' bill. It means that
regular elementary teachers may be required to teach art and/or music
following the frameworks.

Here are some additional talking points on HB 1034:

Too often minimums become maximums.

Students need both art and music instruction on a consistent basis.

Set up and clean up time must be budgeted in to the period set aside
for art. Time distributing and taking up music and instruments must be
set aside for music.

Instruction in music and art help to raise both literacy and math
scores on standardized tests.

To teach the frameworks adequately, both art and music require more
specialized knowledge than is necessary for regular elementary
certification. Teachers who are alternatively certified or are working on
alternative certification may have received no art or music training in
college.

Regular elementary teachers get virtually no professional development
in either music or art.

THIS BILL'S FOCUS IS ON WHAT WILL BE EASY FOR SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS,
NOT WHAT IS BEST FOR THE STUDENTS.

[Brock]

The Arkansas state legislature just filed a motion yesterday to eliminate art and music teachers from elementary school.

That is dumb. The PE teachers are the ones they should eliminate.

[|Zach|]

That is dumb. The PE teachers are the ones they should eliminate.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/18/pitiful.physed.ap/index.html

[Jenson71]

I swear this wasn't here the first time I quoted it.

I guess you could say yes. My senior year I took Calc I & II at UMKC. I didn't have to get into any really heavy stuff in college, tho. Took Calc III my first semester... then I had to take Linear Algebra (or Matrix Algebra... which is easier than any calc class). I think I might've taken one other math course... I don't recall for sure.

If I were an engineer I would've had to take Diff EQ. Ack... glad I dodged that one.

How much do you figure an engineer out of Iowa State makes when he's around your age? Around the same as you?