Trent Green - Arm Strength

[crossbow]

Was I seeing things in that last Sandy Eggo game or has Trent's arm gotten a lot stronger since he first got here? I used to think he had a decent arm but he seems to be able to throw harder now.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't really think so. I think he's attempting less throws that he's not capable of making, though.

[Mr. Laz]

D. All of the above



he's knee is better, so he's stepping into the throws better. So he's throws are "stronger"

they have also adapted the offense to fit Trent and weed out the throws that he isn't good at.

he is also playing smarter so he looks better



he's arm still isn't fantastic though ... accuracy or strength

[Hammock Parties]

D. All of the above



he's knee is better, so he's stepping into the throws better. So he's throws are "stronger"

they have also adapted the offense to fit Trent and weed out the throws that he isn't good at.

he is also playing smarter so he looks better



he's arm still isn't fantastic though ... accuracy or strength

I disagree with part of your statement. He's one of the most accurate QBs in the league.

[Mr. Laz]

I disagree with part of your statement. He's one of the most accurate QBs in the league.

he underthrows,overthrows,throws behind,throw low in virtually every game.


imo he's accuracy is way over-hyped


he's inaccuracy is one on the weaknesses of our offense


right tackle
shrimpy center
inconsistant wide receivers
inaccuracy of Trent Green



it's not terrible, our offense is still very good and Green fits in this offense really well.

[RealSNR]

he underthrows,overthrows,throws behind,throw low in virtually every game.


imo he's accuracy is way over-hyped


he's inaccuracy is one on the weaknesses of our offense


right tackle
shrimpy center
inconsistant wide receivers
inaccuracy of Trent Green



it's not terrible, our offense is still very good and Green fits in this offense really well.Who is out there who can replace "shrimpy" Casey Wieggman?

[Hammock Parties]

he underthrows,overthrows,throws behind,throw low in virtually every game.


imo he's accuracy is way over-hyped


he's inaccuracy is one on the weaknesses of our offense


right tackle
shrimpy center
inconsistant wide receivers
inaccuracy of Trent Green



it's not terrible, our offense is still very good and Green fits in this offense really well.

You're nuts. Sure he has a few throws every game that aren't on target, but every QB does.

You don't throw for 4,500 yards, 66% and 27 TDs if you have an average arm and average accuracy.

[Mr. Laz]

Who is out there who can replace "shrimpy" Casey Wieggman?

:hmmm: i don't recalled ever saying anything about replacing casey wiegmann.

i listed our offensive weakness and his size is one of them


power running up the middle is difficult because of his size, It hurts most in short yardage situations.... forcing us to run wide or making priest leap over-the-top.

but the chiefs exchanged that weakness for the added mobility of having a center that can really pull well.


still a weakness though

[Mr. Laz]

You're nuts. Sure he has a few throws every game that aren't on target, but every QB does.

You don't throw for 4,500 yards, 66% and 27 TDs if you have an average arm and average accuracy.

i'm not nuts ... his accuracy is what puts a crimp on our "yard after the catch" if because green fails to hit the receivers in stride.




but hey whatever ... you don't agree, fine ... i'm not gonna fight about it.

[tk13]

i'm not nuts ... his accuracy is what puts a crimp on our "yard after the catch" if because green fails to hit the receivers in stride.




but hey whatever ... you don't agree, fine ... i'm not gonna fight about it.
You realize that the Chiefs were 2nd in the league in yards after the catch, even with only one real breakway threat in Kennison. The other teams in the top 5 all have top notch WR's. The only team ahead of us was Moss and the Vikings....

NFL - Yards after Catch

1 Min 2383
2 KC 1995
3 Phi 1940
4 Ind 1793
5 StL 1761

[Hammock Parties]

You realize that the Chiefs were 2nd in the league in yards after the catch, even with only one real breakway threat in Kennison. The only team ahead of us was Moss and the Vikings....

NFL - Yards after Catch

1 Min 2383
2 KC 1995
3 Phi 1940
4 Ind 1793
5 StL 1761

You beat me to it....you might want to rethink your stance on Green's accuracy, lazarus.

[stevieray]

[QUOTE=lazarus]he underthrows,overthrows,throws behind,throw low in virtually every game.


QUOTE]

Like every other NFL QB.

[Mr. Laz]

[QUOTE=lazarus]he underthrows,overthrows,throws behind,throw low in virtually every game.


QUOTE]

Like every other NFL QB.

good point ... that might be true .... maybe every QB does it


i just look at Green more than others

[royr17]

You're nuts. Sure he has a few throws every game that aren't on target, but every QB does.

You don't throw for 4,500 yards, 66% and 27 TDs if you have an average arm and average accuracy.

I have to agree with Gochiefs here although I hate agreein with him, and WTF happened to your rep Gochiefs ????

[Hammock Parties]

I have to agree with Gochiefs here although I hate agreein with him, and WTF happened to your rep Gochiefs ????

Where have you been? My rep is bipolar. Always has been.

[beavis]

i'm not nuts ... his accuracy is what puts a crimp on our "yard after the catch" if because green fails to hit the receivers in stride.
I notice it too, but don't get too harp on it too much considering the timing aspect of most of the pass routes. I imagine it's pretty tough to know exactly where the receiver will be 2 seconds later.

[bringbackmarty]

:hmmm: i don't recalled ever saying anything about replacing casey wiegmann.

i listed our offensive weakness and his size is one of them


power running up the middle is difficult because of his size, It hurts most in short yardage situations.... forcing us to run wide or making priest leap over-the-top.

but the chiefs exchanged that weakness for the added mobility of having a center that can really pull well.


still a weakness though
no prob running between the tackles with shrimpy and lj.
Maybe priest and blaylock are shrimpy, and wiegmann uses leverage instead of flab to get the job done.

[XXXshogunXXX]

I kinda noticed it too at the Charger game. Like that deep bomb to Kiel, the underneath route to Willhelm, and the lasers to Florence and Edwards. He's just been a more confident passer the past few years.

[Wallcrawler]

I kinda noticed it too at the Charger game. Like that deep bomb to Kiel, the underneath route to Willhelm, and the lasers to Florence and Edwards. He's just been a more confident passer the past few years.



4321

Very funny.



I think Green is a damn good passer, especially considering who he has to throw to on the outside. Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton arent exactly gamebreakers.

Then the passes that go to Tony Gonzalez have to be good, because everyone and their brother mugs Tony every game.

Who knows what Green's stats would have been if Morton and the other wideouts had not dropped more passes than they caught.

I like how Trent Green passed for more yards than Peyton Manning did, and Manning has 3 outstanding recievers to go to. Give Trent Green those guys and see what happens then.


Trent throws a few bad ones now and then, but thats part of the game. Noone is perfect.

[Taco John]

I disagree with part of your statement. He's one of the most accurate QBs in the league.



ROFL ROFL ROFL


That's hilarious.

[KCChiefsMan]

i'm not nuts ... his accuracy is what puts a crimp on our "yard after the catch" if because green fails to hit the receivers in stride.




but hey whatever ... you don't agree, fine ... i'm not gonna fight about it.


I really dont think you know what you are talking about. Trent Green is the only QB in HISTORY to have 3 90+ QB ratings in a row, and can I mention he has QBed a top 3 offense in all of those seasons, with his best WR being Kennison? and Casey Wiegman is one of the best in the business, no weakness there bud.

[tk13]

ROFL ROFL ROFL


That's hilarious.
Yeah, only three guys in the league had a better completion percentage, what a crock.

[tk13]

I really dont think you know what you are talking about. Trent Green is the only QB in HISTORY to have 3 90+ QB ratings in a row, and can I mention he has QBed a top 3 offense in all of those seasons, with his best WR being Kennison? and Casey Wiegman is one of the best in the business, no weakness there bud.
Trent's not the only QB in history to do that with QB rating, he's the 7th. He does it again next year for a 4th consecutive time and he'll be in really exclusive company though.

Most consecutive years with 90.0 or better QB rating, NFL history:

Steve Young - 8 (91-98)
Brett Favre - 4 (94-97)
Dan Fouts - 3 (81-83)
Joe Montana - 3 (83-85)
Kurt Warner - 3 (99-01)
Rich Gannon - 3 (00-02)
Trent Green - 3 (02-04)

Trent and Dan Fouts are the only two on that list not to win an MVP award.

[Fairplay]

I don't see how a person can make an argument saying Trent's passes are off all the time with all the stats about Trent are very good that have been stated in this thread.

[Hammock Parties]

ROFL ROFL ROFL


That's hilarious.

Uh, he's not?

Sorry Taco, but accuracy is Trent's MO. Always has been, always will.

[Hammock Parties]

Trent's not the only QB in history to do that with QB rating, he's the 7th. He does it again next year for a 4th consecutive time and he'll be in really exclusive company though.

Most consecutive years with 90.0 or better QB rating, NFL history:

Steve Young - 8 (91-98)
Brett Favre - 4 (94-97)
Dan Fouts - 3 (81-83)
Joe Montana - 3 (83-85)
Kurt Warner - 3 (99-01)
Rich Gannon - 3 (00-02)
Trent Green - 3 (02-04)

Trent and Dan Fouts are the only two on that list not to win an MVP award.

Both had horrible defenses. Amazing coincidence!

[Chief Faithful]

Sitting here in Atlanta watching Vick chunk the ball I have a whole new appreciation of what it means to be inaccurate. It would be nice if Green had more arm strength and a true #1 receiver, but I am more than happy with his accuracy and decision making ability.

[BigMeatballDave]

ROFL ROFL ROFL


That's hilarious.What are you laughing at, your QB sucks...

[fan4ever]

I'm a big Trent fan, think he's a quality athlete/person, but I think quite a bit of the yards after the catch have been to Priest Holmes and other backs, screen plays, etc. I know other teams run plays like that, but it seems quite a few of our screen plays got pretty good yardage. The San Diego game was probably the poorest game I've watched him play in the last two seasons. Just my opinion.

[picasso]

First off I like Trent Green. He is a good QB.
But lets be honest about a few things here, he's not great. Green is tremendously slow at his reads because he eyeballs the intended target to long. Gonzo. He throws to guys that are setting in a spots to long, in other words late. The YAC occurs when he has to scramble and the receiver is still there growing moss on his helmet and the DBs leave him alone.
The only passes that I have seen Trent hit a person in stride were the pass to Kennison in Greenbay in overtime, the pass to Hall on the seam against I think Denver, and the 98 yarder to Boerigter against San Diego. Those passes were intended for those targets and he took the drop and boom - threw the ball. The passes that he throws to Gonzo are not accurate at all its that Gonzo can get to it, he is that talented. He contorts to catch the ball. That 's why Green looks for him first because he knows that 95% of the time Gonzo will catch his crappy throw.
Fact of the matter is Trent doesn't do his cast of characters justice. He can't hit Morton on a slant route (bread & butter) because by the time he makes two shifts, man in motion, reads Gonzo, calls play, takes a three step drop, bounce and read Gonzo again, Morton has gone by and is out of rotation. That is why half the time he checks down to the RB five yards in the middle or to his outside to Dante for a loss of 2 or to Gonzo for a gain of 1.

[picasso]

I'm a big Trent fan, think he's a quality athlete/person, but I think quite a bit of the yards after the catch have been to Priest Holmes and other backs, screen plays, etc. I know other teams run plays like that, but it seems quite a few of our screen plays got pretty good yardage. The San Diego game was probably the poorest game I've watched him play in the last two seasons. Just my opinion.

YAC on screenplays exactly.

[Logical]

You realize that the Chiefs were 2nd in the league in yards after the catch, even with only one real breakway threat in Kennison. The other teams in the top 5 all have top notch WR's. The only team ahead of us was Moss and the Vikings....

NFL - Yards after Catch

1 Min 2383
2 KC 1995
3 Phi 1940
4 Ind 1793
5 StL 1761

This stat was misused to indicate Green does not have an accurate arm, but it is now being misused to indicate the opposite. The Chiefs have good short and medium game passing attacks but Greeen thwows innacurate on long passes. You get a mixed bag with Trent, IMO more good than bad.

[tk13]

This stat was misused to indicate Green does not have an accurate arm, but it is now being misused to indicate the opposite. The Chiefs have good short and medium game passing attacks but Greeen thwows innacurate on long passes. You get a mixed bag with Trent, IMO more good than bad.
Hey Jim! Glad to see you online, hope you're feeling alright...

I wouldn't disagree one bit that a team like Indy or Philly may be hurt in that statistic because their QB's have a strong arm and can be very accurate deep down the field. Trent's not horrible deep down the field but there are better... I wasn't trying to make the point that Trent could throw downfield there as much as addressing his general accuracy....

[Hammock Parties]

This is nuts...the way this thread talks Green is made out to be worse than Plummer.

[Mr. Laz]

This is nuts...the way this thread talks Green is made out to be worse than Plummer.

no, your just being silly


just because people talk about a player's weaknesses doesn't mean they discount his strengths.

[Hammock Parties]

no, your just being silly


just because people talk about a player's weaknesses doesn't mean they discount his strengths.

Read the thread!

According to this thread Trent Green has

Average arm strength
Average accuracy
Average decision making

[Mr. Laz]

Read the thread!

According to this thread Trent Green has

Average arm strength
Average accuracy
Average decision making
which is prolly about right ... what's your point?


he also has

good leadership
good character
good Heart
good determination



i didn't think that Green being average in most the physical and good in the intangibles was any kind of secret.

[Hammock Parties]

which is prolly about right ... what's your point?


he also has

good leadership
good character
good Heart
good determination



i didn't think that Green being average in most the physical and good in the intangibles was any kind of secret.

My point is this thread is WRONG.

Sorry folks, you don't compile three straight 90+ QB rating seasons by being average in everything but intagibles. Trent is extremely accurate and makes good decisions out there. And he's improved vastly in his decision making since his first season here.

:shake:

[Mr. Laz]

My point is this thread is WRONG.

Sorry folks, you don't compile three straight 90+ QB rating seasons by being average in everything but intagibles. Trent is extremely accurate and makes good decisions out there. And he's improved vastly in his decision making since his first season here.

:shake:
oh... so you disagree



so just say so and stop bleeding all over the carpet ... get a tampax or something.

[tiptap]

Joe Montana is considered a great QB because he won and he had average arm strength in the West Coast offense. Was he more accurate than Green? What about Dawson? His heighth was a disadvantage leading to the moving pocket but his arm strength wasn't exceptional like Stauback or Bradshaw's.
I do think that we saw an increase in interceptions playing against 3-4 defenses inch back into Greens play. And the size of our center is a problem in 3-4 alignments when we don't have a right tackle and always tend to go to the left now. It effectively halves the field and requires the left side (they were up to it this season) to manhandle the run to their side.

I agree with offense needs a right tackle
A true WR threat and the other two problems small center and arm and accuracy will take care or itself.

[crossbow]

I don't really think so. I think he's attempting less throws that he's not capable of making, though.

Have to dissagree with you on this. I saw much more zip on those throws this year. Forgot about the healed knee. That would explain it.

[Logical]

Hey Jim! Glad to see you online, hope you're feeling alright...

I wouldn't disagree one bit that a team like Indy or Philly may be hurt in that statistic because their QB's have a strong arm and can be very accurate deep down the field. Trent's not horrible deep down the field but there are better... I wasn't trying to make the point that Trent could throw downfield there as much as addressing his general accuracy....

Thanks, I am pretty tired so I won't be posting much for a while.

[Ultra Peanut]

Great to see you back, Jim.

Sorry folks, you don't compile three straight 90+ QB rating seasons by being average in everything but intagibles. Trent is extremely accurate and makes good decisions out there. And he's improved vastly in his decision making since his first season here. Agreed.

[Pants]

Hey Vlad, I don't know you, but I'm glad you are back. Feeling better?

[Logical]

Hey Vlad, I don't know you, but I'm glad you are back. Feeling better?

Yes I am feeling better that I was earlier during recovery, I got home Wed but was just to drained to post at all.

[Logical]

Great to see you back, Jim.

Agreed.Thanks Psi

[Rausch]

Thanks, I am pretty tired so I won't be posting much for a while.

The nurse broke your hands, didn't she?...

[Logical]

The nurse broke your hands, didn't she?...:hmmm:ROFL

[NewChief]

Fact of the matter is Trent doesn't do his cast of characters justice.
I had typed up a detailed reply to your post, but I think that you made this statement is enough of a refutation.

[Sure-Oz]

Imagine if he had a #1 wr, Jake Plummer is stil more accurate throwing pics though!