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View Full Version : whats with this Poker craze going on in America??


Deberg_1990
01-31-2005, 09:31 PM
Is it just a passing fade or here to stay?? It seems almost every cable channel has a poker show on these days. More than 80 million peeps are playing it these days according to this article.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/specialreports/3539385/detail.html

My brother in law even built his own homemade Poker table recently.

Deberg_1990
01-31-2005, 09:32 PM
My Brother in laws table:

2bikemike
01-31-2005, 09:47 PM
I am not sure but its all over the net too. I wonder if that movie Rounders had much to do with it. Its seems to me Texas Holdem has gotten extremely popular.

jspchief
01-31-2005, 09:52 PM
It's a fun game, no doubt about it.
I'm sure it will pass, just like all the other fads.

KC Jones
01-31-2005, 09:55 PM
It's a fun game, no doubt about it.
I'm sure it will pass, just like all the other fads.

I honestly resent it being a fad. I've been hosting poker games off and on ever since I moved out of my Dad's house as a teenager. I have fond memories of sneaking out of bed to the top of the stairs to watch my Grandad and Dad playing poker with some fellow businessmen. Yet when I invited one of my neighbors to one of my games recently he made some offhand comment about that being very yuppie of me. That's not fair - I wan't my ****ing game back. :cuss:

BigRedChief
01-31-2005, 10:09 PM
My son wanted a got a poker table for his buddies to play on when they come over. Better than video games if you ask me.

jspchief
01-31-2005, 10:35 PM
I honestly resent it being a fad. I've been hosting poker games off and on ever since I moved out of my Dad's house as a teenager. I have fond memories of sneaking out of bed to the top of the stairs to watch my Grandad and Dad playing poker with some fellow businessmen. Yet when I invited one of my neighbors to one of my games recently he made some offhand comment about that being very yuppie of me. That's not fair - I wan't my ****ing game back. :cuss:

I don't neccessarily think poker is a fad as much as the Texas Hold 'em and televised poker. We've been playing poker for years, but just recently started playing Texas Hold 'em. I'll admit that Rounders played a big part in peaking our interest.

The best of Hold'em is if you play tournament style, you get nice sized pots for what seems like a small investment. When we used to play regular 7 card type games, we rarely played high enough stakes to make it fun. Now you can toss in a 20 and have a shot at some nice money.

Rain Man
01-31-2005, 10:55 PM
KC Jones aside, it's a fad. It's like cigars and martinis - it's the current generation seizing upon identifiers from the 50s and 60s.

I want to write a magazine article about this. I think that every generation has fads that embrace iconic symbols of about 40 years earlier.

jspchief
01-31-2005, 10:59 PM
KC Jones aside, it's a fad. It's like cigars and martinis - it's the current generation seizing upon identifiers from the 50s and 60s.

I want to write a magazine article about this. I think that every generation has fads that embrace iconic symbols of about 40 years earlier.

Cigars and Martinis is a great comparison. The people that were doing it five years ago are about the only ones that will still be doing it five years from now.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2005, 11:05 PM
KC Jones aside, it's a fad. It's like cigars and martinis - it's the current generation seizing upon identifiers from the 50s and 60s.

I want to write a magazine article about this. I think that every generation has fads that embrace iconic symbols of about 40 years earlier.


I'll buy the rights from you for 2 dollars.

beavis
01-31-2005, 11:05 PM
That's not fair - I wan't my ****ing game back. :cuss:
No shit. I'm sick of playing with all these tards that treat the game like blackjack or any other game of chance. It's a skill game, and should be treated as such.

Garcia Bronco
01-31-2005, 11:07 PM
No shit. I'm sick of playing with all these tards that treat the game like blackjack or any other game of chance. It's a skill game, and should be treated as such.


How is it a skill game? Or are you refering to gamesmenship?

jspchief
01-31-2005, 11:08 PM
How is it a skill game? Or are you refering to gamesmenship?

Poker is definately a game of skill. But I would add that Blackjack is as well.

Rain Man
01-31-2005, 11:09 PM
I'll buy the rights from you for 2 dollars.

Two dollars and a can of Coke. My price is firm.

DaneMcCloud
01-31-2005, 11:10 PM
Cigars and martini's never left Hollywood, though it might be different elsewhere. Poker's a great game to be spent with friends. My wife and I had 10 people over on New Year's Eve night and after a nice feast and plenty of alcoholic beverages throughout the evening, we all stayed up until 2am playing Texas Hold 'Em. It was a blast, and probably better than any New Year's Eve I've ever had (it's usually so over-rated).

I bought a Poker Table top at Linens N Things for less than $50 and it has chip and cup holders. My neighbor (who created Joe Millionaire, Big Fat Obnoxious Boss/Finance, etc) has a Roulette wheel, and we're going to have a Gambling party at my place in March. All we need is a couple of hot hookers and this place will be like Vegas!

Dane
~Loves gambling

beavis
01-31-2005, 11:15 PM
How is it a skill game? Or are you refering to gamesmenship?
In a "real" poker game, the outcome has little to do with the cards. You play the opponent, not what you are holding. That's what seperates the guys who make millions doing it, and pretenders like me.

mcan
02-01-2005, 04:06 AM
Poker is a game of skill and chance... With skill being #1.

A poker tournament isn't quite the same thing. When the blinds keep going up, no matter how good you are, you can get into a situation where you just have to make a move or get eaten alive. But a cash game, you simply can not beat a great player in the long run, unless you too are a great player.



Blackjack is a game of chance and skill... With chance being #1.

The house will always have a small percent advantage unless you're counting cards. (Not that hard to do, but few take the time to learn). Again, in the long run, the card counter has an expected profit that varies depending on the maximum and minimum house bets. However, if you're not counting cards, you might as well give the house your money now, because in the long run, you will lose all of it no matter how lucky you are and no matter how perfectly you play basic strategy...

Dartgod
02-01-2005, 06:28 AM
I'll buy the rights from you for 2 dollars.
I'll raise you all-in.

Eleazar
02-01-2005, 08:26 AM
50% luck

Dr. Johnny Fever
02-01-2005, 08:33 AM
Is it just a passing fade or here to stay?? It seems almost every cable channel has a poker show on these days. More than 80 million peeps are playing it these days according to this article.


I don't really get it.....but I don't enjoy playing cards. The whole thing just bores me.

Baby Lee
02-01-2005, 08:42 AM
Three things led to the current poker craze.

1. The Reality TV trend getting us primed to watch 'real people's' reactions to situtions instead of scripted shows.
2. The pocket camera, that finally got us all the relevant info without impinging on the game.
3. Texas hold-em,, the perfect format for the pocket camera and drama.

Lzen
02-01-2005, 10:11 AM
I've noticed the explosion, too. ESPN, Fox Sports, etc. are all showing poker matches. It annoys the heck outta me. Poker is not a sport and should not waste valuable air time on a sports network. :cuss:

beavis
02-01-2005, 10:40 AM
50% luck
If you understood the odds, you wouldn't say that.

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2005, 10:44 AM
Two dollars and a can of Coke. My price is firm.

Alright...2.50 and a can of Diet Coke.

mcan
02-01-2005, 11:03 AM
50% luck


This is misleading and mostly wrong, if you're a decent player. True, for most players (that have no idea how to play poker) they have to rely on luck, but in their case, the luck factor is far greater than 50%. Probably closer to 75%.

However, a truely skilled player will be relying on skill to make up the difference. So, if I'm playing a non-skilled player that is relying on 75% luck, that means that I'M only relying 25% on luck. That number is about right, in most cases like I've described. Now, in one individual hand, that player might be able to hit some cards, or just get me confused by thier seemingly random and illogical play. However, that will only happen about 25% of the time, so in the long run (in a ring/cash game) I will get their money, and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it...

bobbything
02-01-2005, 11:10 AM
Better than video games if you ask me.
Tell that to the parents of my 17 year old brother who lost $150 his last time playing poker with his buddies in their basement.

This poker nonsense has gotten 15 year old kids into some serious high-stakes betting. My little bro tells me that it's taken over his high school with poker games being played every single day during and after school. And they're not betting 10 cents here and there. One time he came home with $250 in winnings.

Hopefully it's a fad that ESPN will stop pushing.

mcan
02-01-2005, 11:18 AM
Tell that to the parents of my 17 year old brother who lost $150 his last time playing poker with his buddies in their basement.

This poker nonsense has gotten 15 year old kids into some serious high-stakes betting. My little bro tells me that it's taken over his high school with poker games being played every single day during and after school. And they're not betting 10 cents here and there. One time he came home with $250 in winnings.

Hopefully it's a fad that ESPN will stop pushing.


ESPN has no control over whether or not 15 year olds gamble illegally. That's like saying that since underage kids drink at parties, the Chiefs should forfeit any sponsers that promote alcohol. If anybody is gambling irresponsibly, then they should stop. However, if someone thinks that entering a $10.00-$20.00 poker tournament that lasts all night long is more fun than going to a movie that costs the same amount, then they should be able to do that regardless of their age... Plus, this way, they have the chance to get a return on thier money.

Plus, if they all suck and play each other every day, then the odds will eventually even out and they will all win a couple tournaments and break even...

beavis
02-01-2005, 11:26 AM
This is misleading and mostly wrong, if you're a decent player. True, for most players (that have no idea how to play poker) they have to rely on luck, but in their case, the luck factor is far greater than 50%. Probably closer to 75%.
Even a non-skilled player can improve their odds dramatically by playing only certain hands.

Fat Elvis
02-01-2005, 11:28 AM
Tell that to the parents of my 17 year old brother who lost $150 his last time playing poker with his buddies in their basement.

This poker nonsense has gotten 15 year old kids into some serious high-stakes betting. My little bro tells me that it's taken over his high school with poker games being played every single day during and after school. And they're not betting 10 cents here and there. One time he came home with $250 in winnings.

Hopefully it's a fad that ESPN will stop pushing.

We used to play poker in the back of the school bus when I was growing up (and I am a fairly old fart). It is nothing new. The stakes may be a little higher now, but that is because it seems kids have more access to more cash than when I was growing up.

mcan
02-01-2005, 11:32 AM
Even a non-skilled player can improve their odds dramatically by playing only certain hands.


True, but I would consider that a skill... So, once they start playing premium hands, they are automatically considered a slightly more skilled player in my book. For some reason, even the good players I know just don't have the patience to keep folding. But then, most of the people around here are fish. I really can't wait until my play is over and I have my evenings back. I was making some decent money every week from these guys...

bobbything
02-01-2005, 11:38 AM
If you guys think that poker is now what it has always been, especially with high school kids, you're beyond my help.

Of course, it's always going to be around. But, there's no doubt that it's more popular now than it has ever been (ie: tournaments on television, "TILT", etc). Poker was played when I was in high school. But, it's nothing like it is now.

That's like saying that since underage kids drink at parties, the Chiefs should forfeit any sponsers that promote alcohol.
That's not a good comparison, but I understand what you're trying to say. Plus, the whole return on investment thing is a poor way at looking at it. If you want to encourage trying to get a return on your investment, maybe there should be more shows about smart investing.

mcan
02-01-2005, 11:42 AM
That's not a good comparison, but I understand what you're trying to say. Plus, the whole return on investment thing is a poor way at looking at it. If you want to encourage trying to get a return on your investment, maybe there should be more shows about smart investing.


Hard to argue with that. I don't think that anybody would want to watch Donald Trump on television though... Oh wait...


Seriously though, it's not that they could get a return, it's that most of the people that are playing poker today are playing in 10-20 dollar tourneys. That's a fairly inexpensive night of entertainment, and it's keeping kids off the damned streets and out of real trouble. A few of these kids might actually learn to play poker someday and make a living at it.

BigRedChief
02-01-2005, 11:48 AM
Tell that to the parents of my 17 year old brother who lost $150 his last time playing poker with his buddies in their basement.

This poker nonsense has gotten 15 year old kids into some serious high-stakes betting. My little bro tells me that it's taken over his high school with poker games being played every single day during and after school. And they're not betting 10 cents here and there. One time he came home with $250 in winnings.

Hopefully it's a fad that ESPN will stop pushing.

Just like everything else that is pleasurable or fun. It can be abused and cause problems for individuals with little or no discipline. Tennagers (in general) would defintely fall into that catagory.

bobbything
02-01-2005, 11:50 AM
That's a fairly inexpensive night of entertainment, and it's keeping kids off the damned streets and out of real trouble. A few of these kids might actually learn to play poker someday and make a living at it.
I tend to look at it differently. I look at it as a 15 year old kid watching the select few on television winning millions. They then, in turn, practice every single day, some days losing plenty of money because they can't quite break even.

You may want to compare that to atheletes on television. Kids want to grow up and be Michael Jordan when the reality is that the odds of that happening are slim. However, the kids working on their jump shot are not throwing their money away in one sitting trying to make it big.

I'm sure I see the minority, but I've seen the negative effects of gambling and I hate to see young kids drawn into it so easily by the way it's protrayed.

alnorth
02-01-2005, 11:52 AM
My policy: I am good enough to reliably beat the helpless fish in small $6 online tournaments, but if I get into anything more serious than that, I'm way above my head on skill level and eventually lose everything. So, I know my limits, I stick with the small games and can usually earn $25ish over the course of an evening (sometimes losing or breaking even, sometimes doing better), but after a few hours I just start to lose it and play stupidly, so I quit for a couple days.

ENDelt260
02-01-2005, 11:57 AM
Speaking of martinis... when did the definition of a martini change to "any drink poured in a martini glass"?

mcan
02-01-2005, 11:58 AM
I tend to look at it differently. I look at it as a 15 year old kid watching the select few on television winning millions. They then, in turn, practice every single day, some days losing plenty of money because they can't quite break even.

You may want to compare that to atheletes on television. Kids want to grow up and be Michael Jordan when the reality is that the odds of that happening are slim. However, the kids working on their jump shot are not throwing their money away in one sitting trying to make it big.

I'm sure I see the minority, but I've seen the negative effects of gambling and I hate to see young kids drawn into it so easily by the way it's protrayed.


Any kid who wants to make money just needs to read a book about poker. Read Super System cover to cover and then reread the hold-em sections. Then grab Sklansky's "Theory of Poker" and you'll pretty much be set to beat up on any of the locals. It doesn't take a genious, but like everything else, it takes a little bit of knowledge and practice. Then, they at least won't be losing their money hand over fist.

beavis
02-01-2005, 12:00 PM
True, but I would consider that a skill... So, once they start playing premium hands, they are automatically considered a slightly more skilled player in my book. For some reason, even the good players I know just don't have the patience to keep folding. But then, most of the people around here are fish. I really can't wait until my play is over and I have my evenings back. I was making some decent money every week from these guys...
I guess we're arguing over semantics here, but to me that's more knowledge than it is skill. Anyone can find the odds of starting hands winning on the Internet. But it takes years of experience to learn how to read people, bet, and make correct decisions in live games.

mcan
02-01-2005, 12:05 PM
I guess we're arguing over semantics here, but to me that's more knowledge than it is skill. Anyone can find the odds of starting hands winning on the Internet. But it takes years of experience to learn how to read people, bet, and make correct decisions in live games.


There is a certain amount of knowlege involved in those things too. So yeah, semantics... I pretty much play by the book. Maybe that makes me easy to read, but if I don't have the odds, I'm outta there. If I do, I'm in very aggressively. It works very easily around here because these dips don't want to be pushed around and will call with anything. It seems like every time I put some chips out there (since I'm kinda known as the poker guy) two or three people are yelling at the other guy "he's bluffing, call him." :thumb:

It'll probably take these guys several years and several hundred dollars to figure me out. If they read a single book, and gained some knowledge, they'd figure me out right away... Of course, that's right about when I start shifting gears on em... But, I digress.

bobbything
02-01-2005, 12:09 PM
Any kid who wants to make money just needs to read a book about poker. Read Super System cover to cover and then reread the hold-em sections. Then grab Sklansky's "Theory of Poker" and you'll pretty much be set to beat up on any of the locals. It doesn't take a genious, but like everything else, it takes a little bit of knowledge and practice. Then, they at least won't be losing their money hand over fist.
The problem I have is that, regardless of their skill, large sums of money are being exchanged by very young kids. Aside from the fact that it's illegal, kids just shouldn't be exchanging this much money. Playing cards for the sake of playing cards, for the competetion, is one thing. The same as it is in sports. But kids don't play cards for the competetion. They play to win money. That's the ultimate goal.

You will find very few kids that tell you they play sports because of the money. Inherent to gambling comes higher risk activities (say the Council for Problem Gambling), like drinking, smoking, etc.

Again, this isn't the majority of kids, but it's starting to become more of a problem than it every has been.

beavis
02-01-2005, 12:10 PM
There is a certain amount of knowlege involved in those things too. So yeah, semantics... I pretty much play by the book. Maybe that makes me easy to read, but if I don't have the odds, I'm outta there. If I do, I'm in very aggressively. It works very easily around here because these dips don't want to be pushed around and will call with anything. It seems like every time I put some chips out there (since I'm kinda known as the poker guy) two or three people are yelling at the other guy "he's bluffing, call him." :thumb:

It'll probably take these guys several years and several hundred dollars to figure me out. If they read a single book, and gained some knowledge, they'd figure me out right away... Of course, that's right about when I start shifting gears on em... But, I digress.
I used to play like that. You've got to be careful though. If you play with the same people all the time, they'll start to figure you out. Here recently, I've learned to be a little more efficient with my timing on bluffs. It's kept me alive in some games here recently.

Iowanian
02-01-2005, 12:16 PM
My policy: I am good enough to reliably beat the helpless fish in small $6 online tournaments, but if I get into anything more serious than that, I'm way above my head on skill level and eventually lose everything. So, I know my limits, I stick with the small games and can usually earn $25ish over the course of an evening (sometimes losing or breaking even, sometimes doing better), but after a few hours I just start to lose it and play stupidly, so I quit for a couple days.

I've decided I'm done playing for money online.........Its nearly impossible to win on those $6 tables full of mongoloids...........Mr ALL-IN 37 offsuit guy, always has unfathomable luck. I'd much prefer to play Better players.

mcan
02-01-2005, 12:16 PM
I used to play like that. You've got to be careful though. If you play with the same people all the time, they'll start to figure you out. Here recently, I've learned to be a little more efficient with my timing on bluffs. It's kept me alive in some games here recently.


It's very hard to bluff around here, because there are usually two or three people at the table who throw their money out there like it was nothing, and like I've said, there are two or three more yelling "He's bluffing." So, I don't usually bluff. I wait until the pot odds are in my favor and go in aggressively. Either I win the pot right there, or my opponent makes a mistake by calling. Very rarely do I get a wrong read on somebody and walk into a made hand. It does happen though, which is why it's hard to play my way and win tournaments. You pretty much have to be making correct reads all day, and only get in there with the best of it. But, in a cash game, I will take all your money if you don't know what you're doing...

Phobia
02-01-2005, 12:19 PM
Speaking of martinis... when did the definition of a martini change to "any drink poured in a martini glass"?

I don't know, but we need more martini advocates to speak out on this issue.

mcan
02-01-2005, 12:20 PM
I've decided I'm done playing for money online.........Its nearly impossible to win on those $6 tables full of mongoloids...........Mr ALL-IN 37 offsuit guy, always has unfathomable luck. I'd much prefer to play Better players.


You should be able to take those guys to school. If you're getting beat by those guys consistently, then you need to reevaluate your game. Those low limit games where nobody folds are a different animal, but that's where the most CONSISTENT profits are. The profits are low, (9 handed you should expect to win about $20.00-$30.00 an hour) but if you play correctly, they are almost guarenteed.

Iowanian
02-01-2005, 12:24 PM
I consistently win money in a 18-27 man $20 games at a bar when I play. I don't play Alot at the Casino, but I've only lost money once at a 2-4 or 3-6 game at the casino(out of maybe 10).

The problem on the net with the $5 games, is I can have Pocket KK, flop a K for trips, check, and some jerkwater with 37 and a pair will go all in, I'll call, and sure as shit, they're flopping 2 more or hitting a flush...........or river gutshot strait.

Mr 37 or 59 Offsuit guy beats the hell out of me. Its hard to play vs Shitty players. They play crap, bluff crap, bluff crap, and then catch cards when you call them.

Its a different animal than a face-face game.

ENDelt260
02-01-2005, 12:24 PM
I don't know, but we need more martini advocates to speak out on this issue.
I'm glad someone's with me on this.

BigRedChief
02-01-2005, 12:36 PM
Mr. All-in and bluffers are easy to beat. You just have to identify them and then show some patience and discipline to wait for the right moment.

alnorth
02-01-2005, 01:45 PM
I consistently win money in a 18-27 man $20 games at a bar when I play. I don't play Alot at the Casino, but I've only lost money once at a 2-4 or 3-6 game at the casino(out of maybe 10).

The problem on the net with the $5 games, is I can have Pocket KK, flop a K for trips, check, and some jerkwater with 37 and a pair will go all in, I'll call, and sure as shit, they're flopping 2 more or hitting a flush...........or river gutshot strait.

Mr 37 or 59 Offsuit guy beats the hell out of me. Its hard to play vs Shitty players. They play crap, bluff crap, bluff crap, and then catch cards when you call them.

Its a different animal than a face-face game.

That happens sometimes, but if you just stay steady and dont go on tilt, youll win long-term. This may be a case where you remember each and every single one of your bad beats in hideous detail, but forget the dozens of times that you clean these idiots out. If your in a low-stakes game, these dont hurt so bad and get more than balanced out by your numerous victories.

Also, whenever I do get beat by one of those 2-9 dolts, I offer them a friendly "nice call", "nice hand", or whatever, because I want them to think they are smart. People who whine about bad beats arent really helping themselves out, they need to encourage stupid play. Or as one hilarious saying goes, "dont tap on the fish tank!" :thumb:

alnorth
02-01-2005, 01:51 PM
Mr. All-in and bluffers are easy to beat. You just have to identify them and then show some patience and discipline to wait for the right moment.

My favorite is the chasers who see a four-out inside straight draw and go bananas. Sometimes those all-in tards will beat you, but your not going to lose to a chaser very often.

When I identify a straight-chaser I bleed them to death within 20 hands, raising just a little bit to not scare them off, making them pay to chase their cards, and shift the pot odds my way.

If I flop something like an 8-out outside straight plus 1 overcard (11 outs total, about 22% chance of a hit per card, damn near 50/50 for turn+river), I may go ahead and chase that myself, but generally I'll throw away the stupid little 4-out inside straight draws unless the pot odds get rediculous enough to play it.

|Zach|
02-01-2005, 02:16 PM
Speaking of martinis... when did the definition of a martini change to "any drink poured in a martini glass"?
http://bluefroggoods.com/martini_lovers.html

Calcountry
02-01-2005, 02:29 PM
Is it just a passing fade or here to stay?? It seems almost every cable channel has a poker show on these days. More than 80 million peeps are playing it these days according to this article.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/specialreports/3539385/detail.html

My brother in law even built his own homemade Poker table recently.

You are going to see a lot of it in the coming months on ESPN. I mean, there is no Hockey this year so they have to fill air time somehow.