View Full Version : Mocking The Chiefs
philfree
02-08-2005, 10:01 AM
This mock is predicated on the assumption that we(the Chiefs) acquire a CB through FA. Any of the top 5 candidates will do fine.I'm also assuming that Welbourn didn't play 50% of the snaps.
1st round we address OLB by picking a FS :)
Thomas Davis FS Georgia Many think his skills translate to OLB/WLB in the NFL and he has mad skills for that position. He's great against the run and a good tackler. He's also a good pass rusher and although he struggles a bit to run with WR as a FS, as a LB he matches up well with TEs and RBs coming out of the backfield. He'll be good in coverage as a LB. Our D now has a playmaker.
2nd round we address the CB position.
Eric Green CB Virginia Tech We gotta FA to pair with Warfield but unfortunately Warfield's gonna have to miss some games due to his want to drink and drive. Eric Green is a solid CB who has the work ethic to go along with his skills. He's proto-type(sp?) at 5'11" and 198 Lbs with 4.3-4.4 speed and he is the strongest CB in the draft.
3rd Round it's back to everybodys favorite position FS.
Brodney Pool FS Oklahoma He's a little light for todays FS but his sub 4.5 speed makes up for it. We'll know how slow Woods has really become when Pool starts to run around and make plays. Which is what he'll do when given the chance.
After these three picks we spend the rest of the draft looking for WR. MLB and O line gems. With those first three picks we addressed our D and those players give us a boost in speed and play making ability.
Now let's hear it from the Peanut Gallery.
PhilFree :arrow:
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 10:06 AM
Where are the LBers? We go after ONE CB in FA and then draft TWO Free Safeties in the first three rounds? I don't wanna bash, so I want say anymore than I have. NO more tweeners!!!!
philfree
02-08-2005, 10:12 AM
Where are the LBers? We go after ONE CB in FA and then draft TWO Free Safeties in the first three rounds? I don't wanna bash, so I want say anymore than I have. NO more tweeners!!!!
I drafted a killer OLB. Besides that Mitchell and Fuji are the starters. Perhaps we'll get Fincher MLB UConn with our compensitory pick at the end of round 4.(Assuming Tags gives us that pick for Tait.) Also I didn't say we didn't get an other LB in FA I just pointed out that we did get a CB because it's important with this draft scenario.
PhilFree :arrow:
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 12:36 PM
I like your scenario.
OLB in round 1, CB in round 2...MLB and CB in free agency...
It's solid.
siberian khatru
02-08-2005, 12:38 PM
No big deal, but FTR, Thomas Davis played at Georgia.
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 12:55 PM
I drafted a killer OLB. Besides that Mitchell and Fuji are the starters. Perhaps we'll get Fincher MLB UConn with our compensitory pick at the end of round 4.(Assuming Tags gives us that pick for Tait.) Also I didn't say we didn't get an other LB in FA I just pointed out that we did get a CB because it's important with this draft scenario.
PhilFree :arrow:
Cool. I don't mean to nit-pick and I can see why you think Davis could possibly play LBer in the NFL because he played LBer at Georgia for a while before being converted to FS. My problem with this is I keep seeing how he is being compared to Roy Williams. Roy has stayed a safety for the Cowboys, so I tend to think Davis will, too. He's pretty small, also. 6'1'' 220 lbs. He needs to put on some weight if he is going to go up against o-lineman as a LBer.
Alphaman
02-08-2005, 01:01 PM
Here's mine based on your same assumption:
Round 1) Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
Round 2) Kevin Burnett OLB Tennessee
Round 3) Chris Canty DE Virginia
Round 4 comp for Tait) David Green QB Georgia
Round 5) Junius Coston C NC A&T
Round 5) Trai Essex OT Northwestern
Round 5) Alphonso Hodge CB Miami, OH
Round 6) Anthony Davis RB Wisc
Round 6) Antonio Bryant DT Alabama
Round 7) Leron McCoy WR Indiana (PA)
Round 7) Madison Hedgecock FB North Carolina
I like your scenario.
OLB in round 1, CB in round 2...MLB and CB in free agency...
It's solid.
Yep, that's how I'd do it. :thumb:
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 02:00 PM
Where's the pass-rush? Who replaces Holliday?
Here's how I would do it...
FA CB: Law or Smoot or Baxter would all be welcomed additions
FA MLBer: Hartwell or Bell
Draft
1st round DE David Pollack, pass-rushing stud with lots of upside and still damn good against the run. Parlayed with Allen on the other side we now have a pass-rushing D-line that can get to the QB.
2nd Round (trade up)-OLBer Kevin Burnett-stud OLBer who would be mentioned in the same breath as DJ if not for his injury.
3rd round-CB Bryant McFadden,not the fastest of the bunch, but good in coverage and can lay a hit. He's an ascending player who may move up after the combine. Would be a great nickel in his first year.
4th round-Lost to Philly and the trade for Burnett
5th round CB Antuwan Rogers, Chiefs take another CB with upside to put the pressure on hacks like Bartee and Battle.
5th round-OT Anthony Alibi
6th and 7th rounds use picks to trade up for players we covet slated for earlier picks than when we pick or go BAA at punter and QB.
philfree
02-08-2005, 04:03 PM
Cool. I don't mean to nit-pick and I can see why you think Davis could possibly play LBer in the NFL because he played LBer at Georgia for a while before being converted to FS. My problem with this is I keep seeing how he is being compared to Roy Williams. Roy has stayed a safety for the Cowboys, so I tend to think Davis will, too. He's pretty small, also. 6'1'' 220 lbs. He needs to put on some weight if he is going to go up against o-lineman as a LBer.
I read that the reason he was moved to FS was injuries to other players. He doesn't cover as good as Roy but he 's a little better playing down hill against the run.
As as pass rush is concerned this draft doesn't get us a LDE but Davis is a good pass rusher and with Allen playing RDE we will have a good blitz combo on the right side that should create alot of problems for offenses.
PhilFree :arrow:
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 04:10 PM
I read that the reason he was moved to FS was injuries to other players. He doesn't cover as good as Roy but he 's a little better playing down hill against the run.
As as pass rush is concerned this draft doesn't get us a LDE but Davis is a good pass rusher and with Allen playing RDE we will have a good blitz combo on the right side that should create alot of problems for offenses.
PhilFree :arrow:
Personally I'd rather have a DE that can rush the QB than a safety who rushes the QB. David Pollack in the first.
philfree
02-08-2005, 04:20 PM
No big deal, but FTR, Thomas Davis played at Georgia
You are correct.
I like your scenario.
OLB in round 1, CB in round 2...MLB and CB in free agency...
It's solid.
Yep, that's how I'd do it.
Thanks. IMO the one thing we may need most that doesn't get talked about specifically is a RLB. With Barbers status we really don't have one and to me that makes RLB the most important postion for the Chiefs at this point. Unfortunately I don't see many good candidates for that position available in FA or early in the draft. IMO in Guns scheme the RLB needs to be as good in coverage as he is agaisnt the run. Kinda like Donnie Edwards but perhaps a little better playing down hill. That's why I like Davis, he's a better tackling more aggressive version of Donnie Edwards.
PhilFree :arrow:
jiveturkey
02-08-2005, 04:23 PM
I'm not seeing to many scenarios that I couldn't live with.
It looks like were in a pretty good position this year.
Does anyone know the top 5 LBers that are available via FA this year? I see a lot of talk about Hartwell (my top choice) and Bell but not many others.
Mr. Laz
02-08-2005, 04:27 PM
ya... babeee
lets add 2 more safeties to our roster
we need an even dozen and super bowl here we come
philfree
02-08-2005, 04:41 PM
ya... babeee
lets add 2 more safeties to our roster
we need an even dozen and super bowl here we come
I expected that but the 1st round pick is really gonna be a OLB. A playmaker no doubt. Of course this is just one scenario with mocking the draft. If we could get the right OLB in free agency I might go CB, CB in the 1st two rounds and not spend the big bucks on a free agent. Or DE,CB. I just don't see the OLBs we need in free agency though.
PhilFree :arrow:
Mr. Laz
02-08-2005, 04:47 PM
I expected that but the 1st round pick is really gonna be a OLB. A playmaker no doubt
i know... but when is the last time we converted a player and had it turn out well?
you want our crappy linebacker coach to be the one to introduce this FS to the world of linebacking?
i'll pass ... i want guys experience in the position that we are going to ask them to play.
i don't have enough confidence in our coaches to go with any conversion players this year.
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 04:48 PM
I expected that but the 1st round pick is really gonna be a OLB. A playmaker no doubt. Of course this is just one scenario with mocking the draft. If we could get the right OLB in free agency I might go CB, CB in the 1st two rounds and not spend the big bucks on a free agent. Or DE,CB. I just don't see the OLBs we need in free agency though.
PhilFree :arrow:
The window of opportunity is ONE year for the current regime. We don't have the luxury of expecting rookies to make the difference on whether we make it to the Super Bowl or not. We MUST be active in FA.
Also please note, Davis MAY become a OLBer in the NFL, but he may not. We need a PLAYER that is slated to definitely be an OLBer in the NFL with our first day picks.
philfree
02-08-2005, 05:18 PM
i know... but when is the last time we converted a player and had it turn out well?
you want our crappy linebacker coach to be the one to introduce this FS to the world of linebacking?
i'll pass ... i want guys experience in the position that we are going to ask them to play.
i don't have enough confidence in our coaches to go with any conversion players this year.
Brian Waters? I don't think it'd be that much of a conversion for Davis to play RLB in Guns scheme but I fully understand what your saying. Unfortunately I think finding a RLB for Guns scheme may not be that easy. Derrick Johnson would a perfect fit but he ain't gonna available at
#15. I thought Fox was a good fit but I think he was on the left on the depth chart last year. :shrug: At least that's what the HC said at one time.
PhilFree :arrow:
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 05:23 PM
Where's the pass-rush? Who replaces Holliday?
Here's how I would do it...
FA CB: Law or Smoot or Baxter would all be welcomed additions
FA MLBer: Hartwell or Bell
Draft
1st round DE David Pollack, pass-rushing stud with lots of upside and still damn good against the run. Parlayed with Allen on the other side we now have a pass-rushing D-line that can get to the QB.
2nd Round (trade up)-OLBer Kevin Burnett-stud OLBer who would be mentioned in the same breath as DJ if not for his injury.
3rd round-CB Bryant McFadden,not the fastest of the bunch, but good in coverage and can lay a hit. He's an ascending player who may move up after the combine. Would be a great nickel in his first year.
4th round-Lost to Philly and the trade for Burnett
5th round CB Antuwan Rogers, Chiefs take another CB with upside to put the pressure on hacks like Bartee and Battle.
5th round-OT Anthony Alibi
6th and 7th rounds use picks to trade up for players we covet slated for earlier picks than when we pick or go BAA at punter and QB.
Jared Allen ALREADY REPLACED Vonnie Holliday.
Don't kid yourself - Vermeil won't replace Eric Hicks, he's like a son.
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 05:26 PM
The window of opportunity is ONE year for the current regime. We don't have the luxury of expecting rookies to make the difference on whether we make it to the Super Bowl or not. We MUST be active in FA.
Also please note, Davis MAY become a OLBer in the NFL, but he may not. need a PLAYER that is slated to definitely be an OLBer in the NFL with our first day picks
Way to make contradictory statements there...
Mr. Laz
02-08-2005, 05:41 PM
Brian Waters? I don't think it'd be that much of a conversion for Davis to play RLB in Guns scheme but I fully understand what your saying. Unfortunately I think finding a RLB for Guns scheme may not be that easy. Derrick Johnson would a perfect fit but he ain't gonna available at
#15. I thought Fox was a good fit but I think he was on the left on the depth chart last year. :shrug: At least that's what the HC said at one time.
PhilFree :arrow:
i'm sorry... i needed to be more specific
when is the last time we converted anyone ON DEFENSE with any success?
i just want no part of "Raw players" or "converting" players in the draft.
we need guys that require a little coaching on defense as possible.
|Zach|
02-08-2005, 05:42 PM
Way to make contradictory statements there...
ROFL
philfree
02-08-2005, 05:42 PM
Jared Allen ALREADY REPLACED Vonnie Holliday.
Don't kid yourself - Vermeil won't replace Eric Hicks, he's like a son.
Yeah I'm pretty sure Hicks will be the starter next year which is why if we go DE in the 1st I favor Merriman. He can make an impact by rushing the passer and also rotating some on 1st and 2nd downs with Hicks too.
PhilFree :arrow:
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 05:46 PM
Way to make contradictory statements there...
I was referring to FA in the first statement. READ!!!!!
Nothing like baggin' on someone when you don't even read the actual comments!!!LOL. :p
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 05:53 PM
Jared Allen ALREADY REPLACED Vonnie Holliday.
Don't kid yourself - Vermeil won't replace Eric Hicks, he's like a son.It's not entirely up to Vermeil. Yes, he loves Hicks, but those players have failed for 4 years straight. Nobody's job should be secure and I can't see the Chiefs being so inept to think that Hicks has that position sewn up for the next 10 years. Vermeil may be stubborn, but to think that the ENTIRE organization can't see how crappy our defense is, when we all can clearly see it, is being naive. Nothing wrong with Vermeil supporting his players, but I don't believe for one minute that they can't see that our defense is a liabilty, Hicks included.
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 06:27 PM
I was referring to FA in the first statement. READ!!!!!
Nothing like baggin' on someone when you don't even read the actual comments!!!LOL. :p
You better go read what you said again.
The first statement said we don't have the luxury of expecting a rookie to make a difference. Then you went on to say that we had to get a TRUE OLB the first day, as if a true OLB would have more of an impact as a converted S.
Considering your first statement, why would you care if we converted a S? He's not going to see the field - in fact, according to you, he CAN'T see the field if we expect to go all the way.
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 06:28 PM
It's not entirely up to Vermeil. Yes, he loves Hicks, but those players have failed for 4 years straight. Nobody's job should be secure and I can't see the Chiefs being so inept to think that Hicks has that position sewn up for the next 10 years. Vermeil may be stubborn, but to think that the ENTIRE organization can't see how crappy our defense is, when we all can clearly see it, is being naive. Nothing wrong with Vermeil supporting his players, but I don't believe for one minute that they can't see that our defense is a liabilty, Hicks included.
Gunther loves him too.
I honestly can't believe I'm hearing this out of you after how critical you've been.
This defense has been inept for SEVEN YEARS. And now, all of the sudden, you think they're going to wake up and fix it?
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 06:32 PM
Gunther loves him too.
I honestly can't believe I'm hearing this out of you after how critical you've been.
This defense has been inept for SEVEN YEARS. And now, all of the sudden, you think they're going to wake up and fix it?I never said I think this will happen. One can HOPE, though. ROFL
i'm sorry... i needed to be more specific
when is the last time we converted anyone ON DEFENSE with any success?
i just want no part of "Raw players" or "converting" players in the draft.
we need guys that require a little coaching on defense as possible.
IMO, that was Keith Traylor and that was a very long time ago.
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 06:51 PM
I never said I think this will happen. One can HOPE, though. ROFL
Hope in one hand, shit in the the other...
philfree
02-08-2005, 06:57 PM
Hope in one hand, shit in the the other...
ROFL
PhilFree :arrow:
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 07:06 PM
Hope in one hand, shit in the the other...
Oh shit...I've become Lazarus...
ROFL
Dave Lane
02-08-2005, 07:07 PM
I drafted a killer OLB. Besides that Mitchell and Fuji are the starters. Perhaps we'll get Fincher MLB UConn with our compensitory pick at the end of round 4.(Assuming Tags gives us that pick for Tait.) Also I didn't say we didn't get an other LB in FA I just pointed out that we did get a CB because it's important with this draft scenario.
PhilFree :arrow:
Fuji is probably gone and Mitchell is a C- grade MLB we need MLB if we are taking a LB at all.
Dave
philfree
02-08-2005, 07:14 PM
Fuji is probably gone and Mitchell is a C- grade MLB we need MLB if we are taking a LB at all.
Dave
I think there's a good chance that Fujita will be back. Isn't he a RFA? I also don't think Gun will want to start with a whole new group of LBs. I also think Mitchell is gonna keep improving but a Free agent MLB wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. IMO since Mitchell is still young there's no need to draft a MLB unless he is head and shoulders the best player on the board. Free Agent yes draft pick no.
PhilFree :arrow:
I think there's a good chance that Fujita will be back. Isn't he a RFA? I also don't think Gun will want to start with a whole new group of LBs. I also think Mitchell is gonna keep improving but a Free agent MLB wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. IMO since Mitchell is still young there's no need to draft a MLB unless he is head and shoulders the best player on the board. Free Agent yes draft pick no.
PhilFree :arrow:
I agree. I'd take a proven FA MLB rather than draft one. Mitchell is improving, but he's clearly NOT starting material. He'd make an adequate back up.
htismaqe
02-08-2005, 08:08 PM
I also don't think Gun will want to start with a whole new group of LBs.
That's because Gunther often lets loyalty get in the way just as much as Vermeil.
philfree
02-08-2005, 08:25 PM
Yeah I'm pretty sure Hicks will be the starter next year which is why if we go DE in the 1st I favor Merriman. He can make an impact by rushing the passer and also rotating some on 1st and 2nd downs with Hicks too.
PhilFree :arrow:
Smell Kiper has the Chiefs taking Merriman at #15 in his updated mock.
PhilFree :arrow:
Smell Kiper has the Chiefs taking Merriman at #15 in his updated mock.
PhilFree :arrow:
Well say what you want about Kiper, but if the CHIEFS would have drafted the players that he suggested, that were still available when they picked, they would be MUCH better off. For instance last year, he had them taking WR Keary Colbert in round 2 and the year before that he had them taking Boss Bailey... :hmmm: I could go on but it pisses me off. :cuss:
BigChiefFan
02-08-2005, 09:19 PM
Well say what you want about Kiper, but if the CHIEFS would have drafted the players that he suggested, that were still available when they picked, they would be MUCH better off. For instance last year, he had them taking WR Keary Colbert in round 2 and the year before that he had them taking Boss Bailey... :hmmm: I could go on but it pisses me off. :cuss:
That is disturbing. Damnit :cuss: , Carl!!!!! :p
Mr. Laz
02-08-2005, 11:28 PM
Well say what you want about Kiper, but if the CHIEFS would have drafted the players that he suggested, that were still available when they picked, they would be MUCH better off. For instance last year, he had them taking WR Keary Colbert in round 2 and the year before that he had them taking Boss Bailey... :hmmm: I could go on but it pisses me off. :cuss:
they could of gone by Voyager and the chiefs would of had better drafts.
:mad:
whoman69
02-09-2005, 09:22 AM
Read my lips, no new tweeners.
philfree
02-09-2005, 09:34 AM
Read my lips, no new tweeners.
Who are these tweeners the Chiefs have suffered with? I don't see DAvis as a big tweener between OLB and S. The guy has a ton of talent to do everything we need at our RLB position. He stays on top of my draft board with a few others. The guy is a playmaker.
PhilFree :arrow:
Who are these tweeners the Chiefs have suffered with? I don't see DAvis as a big tweener between OLB and S. The guy has a ton of talent to do everything we need at our RLB position. He stays on top of my draft board with a few others. The guy is a playmaker.
PhilFree :arrow:
I was hoping someone would give me the correct definition of tweener. What I've always understood to be a tweener is a player coming out of college who is either too big or too small to play their college position in the NFL. Mike Mamula was the classic tweener that didn't work out but there are others that have. Brian Urlacher played FS in college. Jevon Kearse was considered a tweener by some when he came out of college. Our own Monty Beisel was a tweener that the Chiefs tried to bulk up to use at DE.
Someone help me out with the tweener thing.
Chiefnj
02-09-2005, 10:17 AM
I was hoping someone would give me the correct definition of tweener. What I've always understood to be a tweener is a player coming out of college who is either too big or too small to play their college position in the NFL. Mike Mamula was the classic tweener that didn't work out but there are others that have. Brian Urlacher played FS in college. Jevon Kearse was considered a tweener by some when he came out of college. Our own Monty Beisel was a tweener that the Chiefs tried to bulk up to use at DE.
Someone help me out with the tweener thing.
Tweener usually applies to DE's and OLB's.
Draftnicks have come to some sort of opinion that the ideal DE is between 280lbs and 299 lbs and over 6'2". Any player less than 280 may be labelled too "undersized" to play DE in the NFL (see Pollack), thus they are a tweener DE/OLB. Any collegiate DE over 300lbs may be considered too big for an NFL DE (in a 4-3 alignment) and are a tweener DE/DT.
OLB's under the mythical 230lb mark are branded "too small to play OLB" in the NFL and might make a better safety (Leroy Hill of Clemson). Conversely, really good safeties, despite their ideal bulk, somehow make the jump to being a projected OLB (Davis of Georgia).
Dave Lane
02-09-2005, 10:22 AM
I was hoping someone would give me the correct definition of tweener. What I've always understood to be a tweener is a player coming out of college who is either too big or too small to play their college position in the NFL. Mike Mamula was the classic tweener that didn't work out but there are others that have. Brian Urlacher played FS in college. Jevon Kearse was considered a tweener by some when he came out of college. Our own Monty Beisel was a tweener that the Chiefs tried to bulk up to use at DE.
Someone help me out with the tweener thing.
I think you've got it right.
Dave
Tweener usually applies to DE's and OLB's.
Draftnicks have come to some sort of opinion that the ideal DE is between 280lbs and 299 lbs and over 6'2". Any player less than 280 may be labelled too "undersized" to play DE in the NFL (see Pollack), thus they are a tweener DE/OLB. Any collegiate DE over 300lbs may be considered too big for an NFL DE (in a 4-3 alignment) and are a tweener DE/DT.
OLB's under the mythical 230lb mark are branded "too small to play OLB" in the NFL and might make a better safety (Leroy Hill of Clemson). Conversely, really good safeties, despite their ideal bulk, somehow make the jump to being a projected OLB (Davis of Georgia).
This begs a question. If the Chiefs judge that the player in question can play and play well the position they want him to play, why should they not draft him? Is the tweener label that's applied by media pundits and so called "draft experts" the be all end all judgement which determines if players will be successful in the NFL? Clarification, this question is not specifically directed at you, Chiefnj, but to those who seem so adament about not drafting "tweeners." Feel free to answer it though, if you'd like.
IMO, I'd rather have the better athlete who is branded a "tweener" than the lesser athlete who fits the size requirements for a particular position.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 10:41 AM
No more tweener busts...sheesh! They need to draft more locks at the different positions like Ryan Sims.
Chiefnj
02-09-2005, 11:00 AM
This begs a question. If the Chiefs judge that the player in question can play and play well the position they want him to play, why should they not draft him? Is the tweener label that's applied by media pundits and so called "draft experts" the be all end all judgement which determines if players will be successful in the NFL? Clarification, this question is not specifically directed at you, Chiefnj, but to those who seem so adament about not drafting "tweeners." Feel free to answer it though, if you'd like.
IMO, I'd rather have the better athlete who is branded a "tweener" than the lesser athlete who fits the size requirements for a particular position.
I'll try to answer. I'm not against drafting players that have the tweener label; I'm dead set on Pollack in the first round (unless Braylon or Johnson fall to 15).
I guess one of the problems with drafting a "tweener" is that they might need a little additional time becoming adjusted to the new position so their immediate impact might not be seen. With really talented players, or good coaching, or luck, they can make the transition immediately and be a factor - Terrell Suggs a smaller DE in college, playing OLB for the Ravens.
The problem for Chief fans, I think, is that most of the Chiefs tweeners haven't panned out, thus there is a bad taste in their mouth when one is mentioned.
IMO, the problem with the Chiefs has more to do with putting an emphasis on numbers (physical size and combine/workouts) than on previous playing history. I posted on another thread that guys like Battle, Mitchell, and Bartee had great workouts. Then you have a Jared Allen who had a really poor combine numbers but was productive at school.
whoman69
02-09-2005, 11:14 AM
Who are these tweeners the Chiefs have suffered with? I don't see DAvis as a big tweener between OLB and S. The guy has a ton of talent to do everything we need at our RLB position. He stays on top of my draft board with a few others. The guy is a playmaker.
PhilFree :arrow:
Is this a trick question do you need a list?
Omar Easy, Eddie Freeman, Gary Stills, William Bartee, Monty Beisel, Julian Battle, Brett Willliams, Jimmy Wilkerson, Kris Willson, Jared Allen. Almost all that has picked since DV got here have been tweeners. They improve our depth without the problem of actually having to break the starting line-up.
You don't see a problem with a tweener for person you want to be a LB at 220 lbs?
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 11:15 AM
Is this a trick question do you need a list?
Omar Easy, Eddie Freeman, Gary Stills, William Bartee, Monty Beisel, Julian Battle, Brett Willliams, Jimmy Wilkerson, Kris Willson, Jared Allen. Almost all that has picked since DV got here have been tweeners. They improve our depth without the problem of actually having to break the starting line-up.
You don't see a problem with a tweener for person you want to be a LB at 220 lbs?
Donnie Edwards is 225.
Is this a trick question do you need a list?
Omar Easy, Eddie Freeman, Gary Stills, William Bartee, Monty Beisel, Julian Battle, Brett Willliams, Jimmy Wilkerson, Kris Willson, Jared Allen. Almost all that has picked since DV got here have been tweeners. They improve our depth without the problem of actually having to break the starting line-up.
You don't see a problem with a tweener for person you want to be a LB at 220 lbs?
Omar Easy was drafted as a FB and is playing FB. Gary Stills has worked out pretty good regardless of his position. Jimmy Wilkerson was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. Kris Wilson was a TE in college and plays TE for the Chiefs. Jared Allen was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. The safety/cornerback arguement doesn't hold much water because they are all similar in size.
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:27 AM
Personally, I don't give a crap about a player's measurables.
I just want players that can run, tackle, and make plays.
I don't want any more "effort" guys like Hicks.
I want guys that produce.
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:32 AM
Omar Easy was drafted as a FB and is playing FB. Gary Stills has worked out pretty good regardless of his position. Jimmy Wilkerson was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. Kris Wilson was a TE in college and plays TE for the Chiefs. Jared Allen was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. The safety/cornerback arguement doesn't hold much water because they are all similar in size.
Easy was drafted as a FB and is a benchwarmer.
Stills has made, what, about 10 plays in 5 years?
That's not what I would call working out.
I'm not ready to give up on Wilkerson yet, though he hasn't made any impact to this point.
We really haven't seen Wilson yet.
Allen, so far, is the only guy that has done anything, and he wasn't expected to, but got his chance when Holiday got hurt.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 11:33 AM
Easy was drafted as a FB and is a benchwarmer.
Stills has made, what, about 10 plays in 5 years?
That's not what I would call working out.
I'm not ready to give up on Wilkerson yet, though he hasn't made any impact to this point.
We really haven't seen Wilson yet.
Allen, so far, is the only guy that has done anything, and he wasn't expected to, but got his chance when Holiday got hurt.
Stills is the captain of our ST. Just an FYI.
Lbedrock1
02-09-2005, 11:33 AM
We need 2 things in FA and then we draft defensively mainly. We get a stud corner and a stud Wide reciever. We can go along way with those two things. We cut Johnny Morton of course and open all the positions on defense so everyone has to earn their spot this year.
philfree
02-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Omar Easy was drafted as a FB and is playing FB. Gary Stills has worked out pretty good regardless of his position. Jimmy Wilkerson was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. Kris Wilson was a TE in college and plays TE for the Chiefs. Jared Allen was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. The safety/cornerback arguement doesn't hold much water because they are all similar in size.
What he said! And Barttee played as much CB in college as he did S but because he played S at all then at this local he is a S. Really he just sucks but he still helps the point be made. Warfield was a S though.
PhilFree :arrow:
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Stills is the captain of our ST. Just an FYI.
And our special teams are so freakin' special, aren't they? :banghead:
Easy was drafted as a FB and is a benchwarmer.
Stills has made, what, about 10 plays in 5 years?
That's not what I would call working out.
I'm not ready to give up on Wilkerson yet, though he hasn't made any impact to this point.
We really haven't seen Wilson yet.
Allen, so far, is the only guy that has done anything, and he wasn't expected to, but got his chance when Holiday got hurt.
Can't think of many other FB's that wouldn't be bench warmers behind Tony Richardson.
Stills is acknowledged to be one of the better special teamers in the league on both kick coverage and return units. He does have pass rush skills and can be useful in specific situations.
Jury is still out on Wilkerson, Wilson, and Allen.
And our special teams are so freakin' special, aren't they? :banghead:
Our special teams are pretty good.
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:41 AM
Can't think of many other FB's that wouldn't be bench warmers behind Tony Richardson.
Stills is acknowledged to be one of the better special teamers in the league on both kick coverage and return units. He does have pass rush skills and can be useful in specific situations.
Jury is still out on Wilkerson, Wilson, and Allen.
I'll give you the T-Rich point.
But how many sacks has Stills made since he's been here.
Maybe he is a good STer, but he gets lost among all the crappy other ones we have in coverage.
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:43 AM
Our special teams are pretty good.
I think Dante Hall make our STs return unit look better than they are. The coverage units are pretty bad.
I'll give you the T-Rich point.
But how many sacks has Stills made since he's been here.
Maybe he is a good STer, but he gets lost among all the crappy other ones we have in coverage.
I think you're expectations of Stills are too high. I don't think the Chiefs ever envisioned him as being the next Derrick Thomas. He was drafted in the third round, 99th overall and they probably expected more from him but I'd take him on my team anytime.
I think Dante Hall make our STs return unit look better than they are. The coverage units are pretty bad.
Holy crap! Dante Hall, another "tweener" that, horror of all horrors, Vermiel was loyal too!
milkman
02-09-2005, 11:52 AM
I think you're expectations of Stills are too high. I don't think the Chiefs ever envisioned him as being the next Derrick Thomas. He was drafted in the third round, 99th overall and they probably expected more from him but I'd take him on my team anytime.
I don't expect the next DT.
But he is supposed to have pass rush skills, as you pointed out in an earlier post.
I want him to at least occassionally get pressure, and a sack or 2 now and then.
But I don't see the pressure from him very often.
And, what's he got 8-10 sacks in 5 years?
That, by my definition, is pathetic.
I don't expect the next DT.
But he is supposed to have pass rush skills, as you pointed out in an earlier post.
I want him to at least occassionally get pressure, and a sack or 2 now and then.
But I don't see the pressure from him very often.
And, what's he got 8-10 sacks in 5 years?
That, by my definition, is pathetic.
According to KCChiefs.com, Stills has 5 sacks in 5 years. Not very good for a starting defensive end but then again, Stills isn't the starter or even the backup. He's a situational player that is completely overmatched in the running game.
milkman
02-09-2005, 12:05 PM
According to KCChiefs.com, Stills has 5 sacks in 5 years. Not very good for a starting defensive end but then again, Stills isn't the starter or even the backup. He's a situational player that is completely overmatched in the running game.
He's a situational player who doesn't produce in the situations he's supposed to specialize in.
How many 2nd and long, or 3rd and long situations has he been in the game for in those 5 years.?
And he only has 5 freakin' sacks?
Is that production something you can be satisfied with?
Again, to me, that is just freakin' pathetic.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 12:11 PM
That's the problem though. Succesful teams don't draft for DEPTH. They draft in hopes that the player is so good he can actually become a starter. We keep players around that are career back-ups. Players like Stills, who will never make an impact as a starter, are kept around based SOLELY on their special teams abilities. I think that is a bad approach to improving a team and keeps us from actually keeping a player who may make an impact on the field other than special teams. Keeping players just because of the special teams abilities and not for their skills on offense or defense is one of the reasons our defense is so bad.
Chiefnj
02-09-2005, 12:11 PM
Stills was a LB who couldn't play LB. He was moved to situational DE and is having a minimal impact. He's a good special teams player, but I think the Chiefs, and most teams, expect more than special teams contributions from their 3rd round picks.
Atkins was a safety, moved to LB and failed.
Beisel was a DE moved to LB and doesn't look like he'll start any time soon.
Eddie Freeman was a DT moved to DE and failed.
Too many safeties moving to CB to discuss.
He's a situational player who doesn't produce in the situations he's supposed to specialize in.
How many 2nd and long, or 3rd and long situations has he been in the game for in those 5 years.?
And he only has 5 freakin' sacks?
Is that production something you can be satisfied with?
Again, to me, that is just freakin' pathetic.
We obviously have different expectations for him. I expect little.
Just for your information, this is a line from his bio:
Produced his finest season on defense a year ago[2003] when he set career highs with 33 tackles, 3.0 sacks (-35.0 yards), three passes defensed and seven QB pressures
Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/gary_stills/)
My opinion is that he's not on the field defensively enough to make that much of a difference. Bottom line is he played behind Hicks, Holliday, Allen, Wilkerson, and even Browning this season. All are more suited to playing defensive end than he, IMO.
BTW, who's this guy?
30 Canonico, Eddie S 6-1 180 09/17/78 1 Sacramento State Las Vegas, NV FA-05
Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/eddie_canonico/)
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 12:18 PM
We obviously have different expectations for him. I expect little.
Just for your information, this is a line from his bio:
Produced his finest season on defense a year ago[2003] when he set career highs with 33 tackles, 3.0 sacks (-35.0 yards), three passes defensed and seven QB pressures
Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/gary_stills/)
My opinion is that he's not on the field defensively enough to make that much of a difference. Bottom line is he played behind Hicks, Holliday, Allen, Wilkerson, and even Browning this season. All are more suited to playing defensive end than he, IMO.
BTW, who's this guy?
30 Canonico, Eddie S 6-1 180 09/17/78 1 Sacramento State Las Vegas, NV FA-05
Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/eddie_canonico/)
After reading several of your posts you expect too little on just about everything that concerns the Chiefs, but then again you don't pay to go to the games, so it's no sweat off you, right?
Well, for those that actually do dip into their pocketbook and SUPPORT the team I can say they aren't doing near enough to get us to the big dance.
Stills was a LB who couldn't play LB. He was moved to situational DE and is having a minimal impact. He's a good special teams player, but I think the Chiefs, and most teams, expect more than special teams contributions from their 3rd round picks.
Atkins was a safety, moved to LB and failed.
Beisel was a DE moved to LB and doesn't look like he'll start any time soon.
Eddie Freeman was a DT moved to DE and failed.
Too many safeties moving to CB to discuss.
I'd say that Stills was a pass rusher in college who was called a LB. The first thing the Chiefs said when they drafted him was that he had good pass rushing skills.
After reading several of your posts you expect too little on just about everything that concerns the Chiefs, but then again you don't pay to go to the games, so it's no sweat off you, right?
Well, for those that actually do dip into their pocketbook and SUPPORT the team I can say they aren't doing near enough to get us to the big dance.
How dare you question my fandom!
I've told you this at least 4 times. If you don't like the product, don't buy it.
philfree
02-09-2005, 12:25 PM
All this is nice but Thomas Davis isn't a Stills or Atkins. He played FS because of injuries to other players. He palys fast and downhill like a LB and he plays bigger then his size. He's not really much smaller then Derrick Johnson either so :shrug: He brings speed, hard hitting and sound tackling to the field. Those are all things this team needs badly. And we don't even have a starting RLB. There are CBs I like in the first round as well as DEs but if Davis is there when we pick I'd want him.
PhilFree :arrow:
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 12:25 PM
How dare you question my fandom!
I've told you this at least 4 times. If you don't like the product, don't buy it.
I didn't question your fandom, I question anybody that is SATISFIED with mediocrity and refuses to acknowledge that we need help.
Also, when you don't buy a ticket to the game, then don't give advice to those that do and how they should spend their money.
I didn't question your fandom, I question anybody that is SATISFIED with mediocrity and refuses to acknowledge that we need help.
Also, when you don't buy a ticket to the game, then don't give advice to those that do and how they should spend their money.
Sorry I wasn't more clear. The questioning my fandom thing is a joke. A lot of people here tend to pull it out as their nuclear arguement.
As far as giving you advice, IMO you're part of the problem. You are the person that buys the season tickets, buys the concessions, and buys the merchandise even though you firmly believe that the product the Chiefs put on the field isn't good enough for you. You're supporting something that isn't up to par in your opinion. You wouldn't go to a mechanic that didn't fix your car correctly. You wouldn't frequent a restaurant with horrible food. Why give your money to the Chiefs if they aren't living up to your standards?
Mr. Laz
02-09-2005, 12:59 PM
Easy is not a Fullback..
the chiefs have already said that he isn't cut out for fullback and they are testing him as a tailback.
Clint in Wichita
02-09-2005, 01:03 PM
This mock is predicated on the assumption that we(the Chiefs) acquire a CB through FA. Any of the top 5 candidates will do fine.I'm also assuming that Welbourn didn't play 50% of the snaps.
1st round we address OLB by picking a FS :)
Thomas Davis FS Georgia Many think his skills translate to OLB/WLB in the NFL and he has mad skills for that position. He's great against the run and a good tackler. He's also a good pass rusher and although he struggles a bit to run with WR as a FS, as a LB he matches up well with TEs and RBs coming out of the backfield. He'll be good in coverage as a LB. Our D now has a playmaker.
2nd round we address the CB position.
Eric Green CB Virginia Tech We gotta FA to pair with Warfield but unfortunately Warfield's gonna have to miss some games due to his want to drink and drive. Eric Green is a solid CB who has the work ethic to go along with his skills. He's proto-type(sp?) at 5'11" and 198 Lbs with 4.3-4.4 speed and he is the strongest CB in the draft.
3rd Round it's back to everybodys favorite position FS.
Brodney Pool FS Oklahoma He's a little light for todays FS but his sub 4.5 speed makes up for it. We'll know how slow Woods has really become when Pool starts to run around and make plays. Which is what he'll do when given the chance.
After these three picks we spend the rest of the draft looking for WR. MLB and O line gems. With those first three picks we addressed our D and those players give us a boost in speed and play making ability.
Now let's hear it from the Peanut Gallery.
PhilFree :arrow:
2 thoughts:
1. This team has neither the time nor the coaching ability to convert a rookie from one position to another. Want an OLB? THEN DRAFT A FREAKING OLB!
2. Defensive end (to replace Hicks) should be priority #2, after replacing Bartee. Replacing Woods is a very close #3.
philfree
02-09-2005, 01:26 PM
2 thoughts:
1. This team has neither the time nor the coaching ability to convert a rookie from one position to another. Want an OLB? THEN DRAFT A FREAKING OLB!
2. Defensive end (to replace Hicks) should be priority #2, after replacing Bartee. Replacing Woods is a very close #3.
1. You can't pass on top talent just because you think your coaches suck.
2. Hicks lead our D line in Tackles so although we need to improve that position(the pass rush)I wouldn't be so quick to discard him all together. Which is why I like Shawn Merriman if we go DE in the 1st round. He can focus on getting to the QB as a rookie and allow him to move into the starting lineup his next year as an every down DE. Kinda like they did with Jevon Kearse. Of course he would rotate some too but his biggest contribution would come as a pass rusher his rookie year.
3. I replaced Woods with Pool with my 3rd pick.
PhilFree :arrow:
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 01:33 PM
Sorry I wasn't more clear. The questioning my fandom thing is a joke. A lot of people here tend to pull it out as their nuclear arguement.
As far as giving you advice, IMO you're part of the problem. You are the person that buys the season tickets, buys the concessions, and buys the merchandise even though you firmly believe that the product the Chiefs put on the field isn't good enough for you. You're supporting something that isn't up to par in your opinion. You wouldn't go to a mechanic that didn't fix your car correctly. You wouldn't frequent a restaurant with horrible food. Why give your money to the Chiefs if they aren't living up to your standards?
Hammer meets nail...
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 01:40 PM
Hammer meets nail...
Oh I see, so the best thing to do is NOT support them and that gives you more of a right to complain. Hmmm. Sure must be nice living out of town and being able to give all this advice to people, when there are those that believe supporting the team actually gives them money to PURSUE players, Hmm what a concept.
You all act like because SOME are part of the problem that we should give up on ALL of them entirely.
Besides all that, HTIS, you praise him for his post and It's all ASSUMPTION. He doesn't know what I spend on merchandise, tickets, ect...
BTW, I'm not the only one who is getting fed-up by Carl's horseshit and as a PAYING customer, I've EARNED the right to complain.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 01:51 PM
Hey now...the ONLY reason Easy is sitting on the bench is because of DV's damned loyalty to Richardson. It's all DV's fault.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 01:52 PM
Oh I see, so the best thing to do is NOT support them and that gives you more of a right to complain. Hmmm. Sure must be nice living out of town and being able to give all this advice to people, when there are those that believe supporting the team actually gives them money to PURSUE players, Hmm what a concept.
You all act like because SOME are part of the problem that we should give up on ALL of them entirely.
Besides all that, HTIS, you praise him for his post and It's all ASSUMPTION. He doesn't know what I spend on merchandise, tickets, ect...
BTW, I'm not the only one who is getting fed-up by Carl's horseshit and as a PAYING customer, I've EARNED the right to complain.
I simply marvel at your vast inability to grasp the most basic concept here. It's astounding, it really is, and I say that in all candor.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:06 PM
I simply marvel at your vast inability to grasp the most basic concept here. It's astounding, it really is, and I say that in all candor. Hey, it's teflon Titus where nothing sticks. Yes, I may be part of the problem, but I'm also part of the solution because I think as a PAYING customer, they give a damn about the paying customer's dissatisfaction more than the non-paying customer's that's simple economics.
If you want to continue to attempt to belittle me, because it isn't a clear-cut,black and white answer, then fine, so be it, but in the same regard prepare to have those that aren't 100 % satisfied to AIR their displeasure any time we like. If you don't like it... tough shit. Why do you feel the need to attempt to belittle those that aren't happy with the product? What's in it for you? Why do you feel a need to call out those that aren't pleased? This is AMERICA and in AMERICA we voice our displeasure if we so choose, take your dictatorship and shove it.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:14 PM
I must say, like Titus, I'm simply amazed.
BCF, you are GETTING WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
When you buy a ticket, that ticket entitles you to SEE A FOOTBALL GAME. It doesn't entitle you to see your team win.
We're all fans, we all have the right to bitch.
But your #1 bitch is that Carl Peterson is STILL HERE.
The reason he's still here is because, with him at the helm, the franchise is MAKING MONEY.
You want him gone, yet you continue to feed the mechanism that keeps him employed.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Hey, it's teflon Titus where nothing sticks. Yes, I may be part of the problem, but I'm also part of the solution because I think as a PAYING customer, they give a damn about the paying customer's dissatisfaction more than the non-paying customer's that's simple economics.
If you want to continue to attempt to belittle me, because it isn't a clear-cut,black and white answer, then fine, so be it, but in the same regard prepare to have those that aren't 100 % satisfied to AIR their displeasure any time we like. If you don't like it... tough shit. Why do you feel the need to attempt to belittle those that aren't happy with the product? What's in it for you? Why do you feel a need to call out those that aren't pleased? This is AMERICA and in AMERICA we voice our displeasure if we so choose, take your dictatorship and shove it.
it's akin to suing McDonalds for making you fat...fine, whatever, BCF.
Rather than ride this merry go round for another loop, let me just uneqiviocally state that you are clearly the biggest chiefs fan in the entire world and we can only bask in you knowledge and glory.
Take care...
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:16 PM
FYI, revenue to acquire players comes from luxury suites, not GA ticket sales...
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 02:18 PM
FYI, revenue to acquire players comes from luxury suites, not GA ticket sales...
and the TV contracts.
Why do you feel a need to call out those that aren't pleased? This is AMERICA and in AMERICA we voice our displeasure if we so choose, take your dictatorship and shove it.
You should keep in mind that the freedom to voice one's opinion extends not only to your opinion but to the opinions of others even if they're opinions of your opinion.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:22 PM
I must say, like Titus, I'm simply amazed.
BCF, you are GETTING WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
When you buy a ticket, that ticket entitles you to SEE A FOOTBALL GAME. It doesn't entitle you to see your team win.
We're all fans, we all have the right to bitch.
But your #1 bitch is that Carl Peterson is STILL HERE.
The reason he's still here is because, with him at the helm, the franchise is MAKING MONEY.
You want him gone, yet you continue to feed the mechanism that keeps him employed.Well it's convient how those that don't pay can say that's the right approach to take. Like I said, if you think Carl Peterson IS Chiefs football then you all need to wake up. There's alot more to it than that. I have admitted that is a CATCH-22 NUMEROUS times(how convient that we forget that), however it isn't so black and white because it isn't entirely about Carl Peterson like you all make it out to be. Titus gets on to people for placing ALL of the blame at CP's feet and then he turns right around and makes it to be about our displeasure with none other than Carl Peterson. Hmmmmm.
Mr. Laz
02-09-2005, 02:25 PM
I must say, like Titus, I'm simply amazed.
BCF, you are GETTING WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
When you buy a ticket, that ticket entitles you to SEE A FOOTBALL GAME. It doesn't entitle you to see your team win.
We're all fans, we all have the right to bitch.
But your #1 bitch is that Carl Peterson is STILL HERE.
The reason he's still here is because, with him at the helm, the franchise is MAKING MONEY.
You want him gone, yet you continue to feed the mechanism that keeps him employed.
complete and utter bullchit
i'm disappointed
blame the fans for supporting the team...
blame the fans for not supporting the team...
so the fan that is unhappy with the chiefs FO should punish themselves by not going to see football just to make a statement against FO ineptitude?
so buying a ticket doesn't give the fan any right to any expectation of success?
what a complete joke :shake:
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:29 PM
it's akin to suing McDonalds for making you fat...fine, whatever, BCF.
Rather than ride this merry go round for another loop, let me just uneqiviocally state that you are clearly the biggest chiefs fan in the entire world and we can only bask in you knowledge and glory.
Take care...
Why can't you see that isn't so black and white? OBVIOUSLY there are some things that I do like about the Chiefs, but you think what you want. You've got it all figured out for EVERY fan and your plan is the ONLY plan, right?
Chiefnj
02-09-2005, 02:35 PM
Why is a football team any different than any other product?
If I don't like a particular movie director, who is to blame if I spend $15 to go see a movie by the guy?
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:37 PM
complete and utter bullchit
i'm disappointed
blame the fans for supporting the team...
blame the fans for not supporting the team...
so the fan that is unhappy with the chiefs FO should punish themselves by not going to see football just to make a statement against FO ineptitude?
so buying a ticket doesn't give the fan any right to any expectation of success?
what a complete joke :shake:
The only complete joke here is that you're not thinking this through.
1) I'm not blaming anyone. It's quite simple, Carl Peterson's job performance depends on the team being profitable. As long as tickets are being sold, he's going to keep his job.
2) I never said buying a ticket doesn't give you any right to expect success. EXPECT. Failure to meet those expectations does not constitute a failure IN ANY WAY of the team to give you what you PAID for -- a ticket to see a football game.
3) Buying a ticket does not entitle one to bitch any more than the person who does not buy the ticket. We're all fans.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:38 PM
Why is a football team any different than any other product?
If I don't like a particular movie director, who is to blame if I spend $15 to go see a movie by the guy?
Exactly.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:41 PM
Why is a football team any different than any other product?
If I don't like a particular movie director, who is to blame if I spend $15 to go see a movie by the guy?I look at more like buying a car. Let's say you really like Yukon's and have bought a few of them. On your latest Yukon it runs good, but the radio keeps fading on and off. You still like Yukons, but you would appreciate the dealership fixing the problem.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Why can't you see that isn't so black and white? OBVIOUSLY there are some things that I do like about the Chiefs, but you think what you want. You've got it all figured out for EVERY fan and your plan is the ONLY plan, right?
First, Im not the one missing the elephant in the living room. Second, I have no plan nor do I need to have a plan. What I have figured out is that you're not pleased with the product yet continue to purchase the product.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:45 PM
First, Im not the one missing the elephant in the living room. Second, I have no plan nor do I need to have a plan. What I have figured out is that you're not pleased with the product yet continue to purchase the product.I'm not pleased with the DEFENSE. Okay, that's not the entire team, that's why it isn't so black and white. I'm glad you can give us all such wonderful advice on what is right or wrong for us and how we should or shouldn't express our displeasure for the team. Thanks for your support, Gretz!!!
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:48 PM
I look at more like buying a car. Let's say you really like Yukon's and have bought a few of them. On your latest Yukon it runs good, but the radio keeps fading on and off. You still like Yukons, but you would appreciate the dealership fixing the problem.
Purchase of the Yukon comes with a WARRANTY. That warranty guarantees that the radio will function.
Buying a Chiefs ticket does not include a warranty that the team will win.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:53 PM
Purchase of the Yukon comes with a WARRANTY. That warranty guarantees that the radio will function.
Buying a Chiefs ticket does not include a warranty that the team will win.
I'm not looking for a guarantee. I'm looking for a dealership that WILL fix the problem and not make excuses as to why they can't fix the radio. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 02:53 PM
I'm not pleased with the DEFENSE. Okay, that's not the entire team, that's why it isn't so black and white. I'm glad you can give us all such wonderful advice on what is right or wrong for us and how we should or shouldn't express our displeasure for the team. Thanks for your support, Gretz!!!
I thought I was rufus, not gretz...Im glad, at least, you recognize my comments as 'advice', now all you need is a logic class--specializing in cause and effect.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 02:55 PM
I thought I was rufus, not gretz...Im glad, at least, you recognize my comments as 'advice', now all you need is a logic class--specializing in cause and effect.
I haven't heard you say anything logical yet. You're quick to tell others what you believe is right, but you are the one that can't see there are things called variables to the equation.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm not looking for a guarantee. I'm looking for a dealership that WILL fix the problem and not make excuses as to why they can't fix the radio. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
Your analogy doesn't at all apply.
Say you bought your Yukon and you're not pleased because the color of the carpet isn't the shade of grey you REALLY wanted.
Try finding a dealership that will fix it.
You won't find one, because when you purchased that Yukon you were entitled to the color of carpet that came with it and nothing more.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:01 PM
I haven't heard you say anything logical yet. You're quick to tell others what you believe is right, but you are the one that can't see there are things called variables to the equation.
Ok, so you need a logic class and a reading comp class...I've tried to point this out to you about 100 different ways, yet you still dont grasp it. Ive realized at this point that if you dont see the cause and effect relationship with regard to you and CP, you're never going to.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:03 PM
Your analogy doesn't at all apply.
Say you bought your Yukon and you're not pleased because the color of the carpet isn't the shade of grey you REALLY wanted.
Try finding a dealership that will fix it.
You won't find one, because when you purchased that Yukon you were entitled to the color of carpet that came with it and nothing more.
Bull shit. Exactly what I said is exactly what is happening with the Chiefs and you want to ignore that and put your own analogy to it. Deal with what was said and think about it. Let your bias for me take a back seat.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:07 PM
Bull shit. Exactly what I said is exactly what is happening with the Chiefs and you want to ignore that and put your own analogy to it. Deal with what was said and think about it. Let your bias for me take a back seat.
Ok, if it's exactly as is...let's break it down.
Who is the dealership? Carl or Lamar or the Team?
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
Ok, so you need a logic class and a reading comp class...I've tried to point this out to you about 100 different ways, yet you still dont grasp it. Ive realized at this point that if you dont see the cause and effect relationship with regard to you and CP, you're never going to.
Gwad, how many ****ing times do I have to say that isn't black and white only to have you say, well you know what to do-don't go to the games. Your advice sucks because it isn't the only way to get things done. That's why we keep going round and round. Not because I can't comprehend your THEORY, but because I don't agree with it. Can't you see that? You are trying to sell me on the horseshit that because I'm not satisfied with Carl Peterson, that I should hold the ENTIRE organization liable for HIS shortcomings, sorry you can't see that.
Chiefnj
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
I'm not looking for a guarantee. I'm looking for a dealership that WILL fix the problem and not make excuses as to why they can't fix the radio. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
If you have a dealership that isn't fixing the problem the right way, or ignores it, don't you go to a different dealership?
I've loved the Chiefs for many, many years. And I admit, that for the first time in my history as a Chiefs fan (even through the mid to late 80's), this was the first season I said to myself "Why I am I still a fan of this team? I grew to love them because of a tenacious defense and a killer attitude. They don't have it at all anymore." And, if in this offseason they don't sign any defensive free agents and don't draft defense I may very well hang up my hat until Peterson and Vermeil walk away.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:11 PM
Gwad, how many ****ing times do I have to say that isn't black and white only to have you say, well you know what to do-don't go to the games. Your advice sucks because it isn't the only way to get things done. That's why we keep going round and round. Not because I can't comprehend your THEORY, but because I don't agree with it. Can't you see that? You are trying to sell me on the horseshit that because I'm not satisfied with Carl Peterson, that I should hold the ENTIRE organization liable for HIS shortcomings, sorry you can't see that.
Dur...Carl Peterson IS the entire organization. You should really stop trying to ping me on this, you wind up looking the fool.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:12 PM
Dur...Carl Peterson IS the entire organization. You should really stop trying to ping me on this, you wind up looking the fool.So he can throw it and catch it, too?
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:13 PM
So he can throw it and catch it, too?
It's at this point, I am actually embarrassed for you.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:16 PM
Bull shit. Exactly what I said is exactly what is happening with the Chiefs and you want to ignore that and put your own analogy to it. Deal with what was said and think about it. Let your bias for me take a back seat.
There's no bias. You're being an idiot. I have thought about what you said and I've concluded that you're into this argument WAY over your head.
When you buy a Yukon, it comes with a warranty. You are buying a Yukon with the implied and expressed condition that the radio works. If the radio does not work, the dealership/manufacturer have not met the conditions that they agreed to upon sale of the vehicle. They have an obligation to fix the radio.
When you buy a Chiefs ticket, it comes with no warranty. You are buying a ticket with the implied and expressed condition that you get to see a football game.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:16 PM
It's at this point, I am actually embarrassed for you.Don't be. I don't need your fake empathy.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:19 PM
There's no bias. You're being an idiot. I have thought about what you said and I've concluded that you're into this argument WAY over your head.
When you buy a Yukon, it comes with a warranty. You are buying a Yukon with the implied and expressed condition that the radio works. If the radio does not work, the dealership/manufacturer have not met the conditions that they agreed to upon sale of the vehicle. They have an obligation to fix the radio.
When you buy a Chiefs ticket, it comes with no warranty. You are buying a ticket with the implied and expressed condition that you get to see a football game.How dare a paying customer question the FO. Damn the nerve on some of us.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:25 PM
Ok, if it's exactly as is...let's break it down.
Who is the dealership? Carl or Lamar or the Team?
You wanna take a stab, BCF, and break down your analogy...this should be fun.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:26 PM
How dare a paying customer question the FO. Damn the nerve on some of us.
You just don't get it.
As a paying customer, you have EVERY RIGHT to complain. I never said you didn't.
However, the team has no legal or contractual obligation, to you or any other paying customer, to produce a winning team.
milkman
02-09-2005, 03:26 PM
I don't know about any of these analogies.
If the enough of the paying customers decide to stop buying the product because of their inadequacies, then, unlike most other products that simply go out of business, the owners of this product can just move it to a different town and get new customers to buy their product.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
You just don't get it.
As a paying customer, you have EVERY RIGHT to complain. I never said you didn't.
However, the team has no legal or contractual obligation, to you or any other paying customer, to produce a winning team.
How dare you question his manhood! the nerve of some people *sigh*
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
You wanna take a stab, BCF, and break down your analogy...this should be fun.
NO, I'm done trying to explain things to people that just want to tear me down instead of actually discussing the issues. You know how I feel, I know how you feel. Re-hashing it won't get us anywhere.
whoman69
02-09-2005, 03:28 PM
Omar Easy was drafted as a FB and is playing FB. Gary Stills has worked out pretty good regardless of his position. Jimmy Wilkerson was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. Kris Wilson was a TE in college and plays TE for the Chiefs. Jared Allen was a DE in college and plays DE for the Chiefs. The safety/cornerback arguement doesn't hold much water because they are all similar in size.
Are you kidding me? How many times has DV tried to convert Easy to a HB because he cannot block? Jimmy Wilkerson has been moved all over including tackle. Jared Allen was expected to be our eventual long snapper as well as someone that could provide some depth on the line. Nobody on the staff expected him to be as good as he was. Safeties and cornerbacks have vast differences in speed and usually 15 lbs in size and huge differences in hitting ability and coverage. Kris Wilson does not play TE for the Chiefs. He is an Hback who roves from the backfield to a 2nd TE position and even wideout. If Gonzo becomes injured, they won't trust Wilson to play straight up as a TE because he's too small for that. Additionally, you don't draft Still because you think that 5 years into his career he will still be on ST.
Do you refute that the Chiefs drafts have garnered players of starting ability since DV came here? The reason is in part because of all the tweeners.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:28 PM
NO, I'm done trying to explain things to people that just want to tear me down instead of actually discussing the issues. You know how I feel, I know how you feel. Re-hashing it won't get us anywhere.
Hey, Im not doing any tearing, Im just giving you slack...you're doing all the work.
Im glad you didnt try to break it down.
whoman69
02-09-2005, 03:31 PM
We obviously have different expectations for him. I expect little.
BTW, who's this guy?
30 Canonico, Eddie S 6-1 180 09/17/78 1 Sacramento State Las Vegas, NV FA-05
Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/eddie_canonico/)
We have to stock up on safeties during the offseason. Last year we carried 12 into camp. So who is he? Camp fodder.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:35 PM
We have to stock up on safeties during the offseason. Last year we carried 12 into camp. So who is he? Camp fodder.
One thing you need to understand is you can never have too many fullbacks or safties...
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:35 PM
NO, I'm done trying to explain things to people that just want to tear me down instead of actually discussing the issues. You know how I feel, I know how you feel. Re-hashing it won't get us anywhere.
We ARE discussing the issues.
You're analogy was horribly flawed. Pointing that out does not equate to "tearing you down" just because you can't handle it.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:38 PM
You're analogy was horribly flawed. Pointing that out does not equate to "tearing you down" just because you can't handle it.
It's almost, dare I say, proctor-esque.
whoman69
02-09-2005, 03:39 PM
One thing you need to understand is you can never have too many fullbacks or safties...
I know you're saying that tongue in cheek, but actually Pederson has proved you can.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:40 PM
You just don't get it.
As a paying customer, you have EVERY RIGHT to complain. I never said you didn't.
However, the team has no legal or contractual obligation, to you or any other paying customer, to produce a winning team.AGAIN, I CLEARLY see what some of you all are saying about not supporting the team. AGAIN, it's a CATCH -22 and I'm contemplating getting rid of the season tickets, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't miss alot of good things about the team.
I know the Chiefs don't have an obligation to produce winner, however it is in THEIR best interest to do so. Keep losing and we'll see how far that gets them. One of their jobs is to get people in the seats, you don't do that by selling customer's on a shit product, right? No, they sell us on the 5 year plan, ect...Which is them selling us on a WINNER.
It's common sense that FO's would promote a winner to get people out to the games, right, so you act as if they have come out and said our team will be middle of the pack until the day you die, but please support the team, because afterall we are providing a football game? Get real.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:41 PM
We ARE discussing the issues.
You're analogy was horribly flawed. Pointing that out does not equate to "tearing you down" just because you can't handle it.
Calling a person an idiot is though.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:42 PM
Calling a person an idiot is though.
It depends on who it's coming from...
Rausch
02-09-2005, 03:43 PM
One thing you need to understand is you can never have too many fullbacks or safties...
And for the general good you should be locked in a basement until after the draft to prevent the "Titus Effect."
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:43 PM
It's almost, dare I say, proctor-esque.
When you call somebody a fool and they stand up to you-now they are Protor-esque? Looks like you got the latest lexicon.
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:45 PM
When you call somebody a fool and they stand up to you-now they are Protor-esque? Looks like you got the latest lexicon.
*sigh* read it again...do you intentionally not want to follow this conversation?
KCTitus
02-09-2005, 03:47 PM
And for the general good you should be locked in a basement until after the draft to prevent the "Titus Effect."
Around the start of FA, Im going to start touting the NEXT great FB to grace this team. This year, Im hoping it will be 3rd round pick...and in all seriousness, TRich might retire after next year so it's not all the far out of the realm of possibility...stay tuned!
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Keep losing and we'll see how far that gets them. One of their jobs is to get people in the seats, you don't do that by selling customer's on a shit product, right?
Really? Because they haven't fielded a truly GOOD team since 1997, and they haven't won a playoff game since 1993. Yet the seats are always full. So far it seems that selling customer's a shit product works just fine if the customers STILL BUY IT.
It's common sense that FO's would promote a winner to get people out to the games, right, so you act as if they have come out and said our team will be middle of the pack until the day you die, but please support the team, because afterall we are providing a football game? Get real.
Where did I EVER say that they were trying to deliberately sell you an inferior product? Where did I EVER so that they have come out and said our team will be middle of the pack?
I simply said they are not OBLIGATED to do anything other than provide a football game. Of course it's in their best interest to hype the product, but hype does not equal results.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:52 PM
:deevee:
Implying that someone can't read, or calling them "teflon" is all in an effort to "discuss" but calling someone a "fool" is "tearing them down."
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:53 PM
*sigh* read it again...do you intentionally not want to follow this conversation?I did read it. Htis said that isn't tearing somebody down. I said calling somebody a fool or an idiot IS tearing somebody down. You guys made it personal, so that's when I bow out. It's not worth it to me. I'll take the high road because it isn't that important to me what you think of my opinion of the FO.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 03:57 PM
I did read it. Htis said that isn't tearing somebody down. I said calling somebody a fool or an idiot IS tearing somebody down. You guys made it personal, so that's when I bow out. It's not worth it to me. I'll take the high road because it isn't that important to me what you think of my opinion of the FO.
Teflon BigChiefFan, nothing sticks...
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 03:59 PM
:deevee:
Implying that someone can't read, or calling them "teflon" is all in an effort to "discuss" but calling someone a "fool" is "tearing them down."Look I don't think Carl Peterson is the man to get the job done, I'm sorry that ruffles some feathers, but I'm not going to quit placing some of that blame at his feet.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Teflon BigChiefFan, nothing sticks...How original.
Rausch
02-09-2005, 04:06 PM
Look I don't think Carl Peterson is the man to get the job done, I'm sorry that ruffles some feathers, but I'm not going to quit placing some of that blame at his feet.
Good.
While you're at it blame the scouts and HC's as well. I can think of more wasted draft picks (Scouts, CP, and our HC's all go into those decisions) than FA moves.
I'd put more blame on Peterson for bust FA's than draft picks due to the cap and his eagerness to get a "steal." Draft pick cap numbers are, for the most part, pretty well based on when you were drafted, you have the rookie cap, etc...
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:12 PM
Look I don't think Carl Peterson is the man to get the job done, I'm sorry that ruffles some feathers, but I'm not going to quit placing some of that blame at his feet.
I don't think Carl Peterson is the man to get the job done either. You ruffled feathers by introducing arguments that weren't supportable...
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:12 PM
How original.
I was pointing out your hypocrisy.
How ironic that once again, you didn't get it.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 04:20 PM
I don't think Carl Peterson is the man to get the job done either. You ruffled feathers by introducing arguments that weren't supportable...
All of this over a god-damned technicality? :banghead:
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:21 PM
All of this over a god-damned technicality? :banghead:
A "technicality" that you repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
We get it already. You want Carl gone.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 04:24 PM
A "technicality" that you repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
We get it already. You want Carl gone.Maybe if I wasn't asked questions there wouldn't be posts about it over and over. I may not be alot of things, but I won't run and hide when addressed. How about ignoring it instead of contributing to it?
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:27 PM
Maybe if I wasn't asked questions there wouldn't be posts about it over and over. I may not be alot of things, but I won't run and hide when addressed. How about ignoring it instead of contributing to it?
Wow. Passive-aggressive much?
NOBODY asked you anything.
You responded to a post by NMT1, that was directed at MILKMAN, with this:
After reading several of your posts you expect too little on just about everything that concerns the Chiefs, but then again you don't pay to go to the games, so it's no sweat off you, right?
Well, for those that actually do dip into their pocketbook and SUPPORT the team I can say they aren't doing near enough to get us to the big dance.
You weren't addressed. You butted in. And now you want to whine about getting "torn down"?
Puh-lease.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 04:30 PM
Wow. Passive-aggressive much?
NOBODY asked you anything.
You responded to a post by NMT1, that was directed at MILKMAN, with this:
After reading several of your posts you expect too little on just about everything that concerns the Chiefs, but then again you don't pay to go to the games, so it's no sweat off you, right?
Well, for those that actually do dip into their pocketbook and SUPPORT the team I can say they aren't doing near enough to get us to the big dance.
You weren't addressed. You butted in. And now you want to whine about getting "torn down"?
Puh-lease.
Yea, that's the only ****in' post on the entire thread. Put me on ignore and piss off. This is childish and a waste of time.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:31 PM
Yea, that's the only ****in' post on the entire thread. Put me on ignore and piss off. This is childish and a waste of time.
You started the discussion, don't try to pass yourself off as a victim.
Like I said, you responded to NMT1's post (because you don't like his opinions) even though that post was directed at someone other than you.
I feel truly sorry that you painted yourself into an intellectual corner. I really do.
Are you kidding me? How many times has DV tried to convert Easy to a HB because he cannot block? Jimmy Wilkerson has been moved all over including tackle. Jared Allen was expected to be our eventual long snapper as well as someone that could provide some depth on the line. Nobody on the staff expected him to be as good as he was. Safeties and cornerbacks have vast differences in speed and usually 15 lbs in size and huge differences in hitting ability and coverage. Kris Wilson does not play TE for the Chiefs. He is an Hback who roves from the backfield to a 2nd TE position and even wideout. If Gonzo becomes injured, they won't trust Wilson to play straight up as a TE because he's too small for that. Additionally, you don't draft Still because you think that 5 years into his career he will still be on ST.
Do you refute that the Chiefs drafts have garnered players of starting ability since DV came here? The reason is in part because of all the tweeners.
I don't know how many times DV has tried to convert Easy to HB. Maybe you have some inside knowledge that I don't. He's listed as a FB on their depth chart and has been since day one. Yeah, they've said they'd like to get him to carry the ball some because he has the talent to do so. They've also called his blocking suspect in the past but I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china.
Kris Wilson was drafted as a TE and is listed as a TE on the roster. He may technically be an H-back but I've seen Gonzales line up as a WR and move around in the backfield. Does that mean he's not a TE?
How do you know they won't trust Wilson to play TE if Gonzales gets hurt?
I'm not sure I understand the question about the Chiefs drafts garnering players of starting ability. They have drafted some starters since Vermiel has been HC: Sims, Allen, and Fujita. Many of the "tweeners" were drafted before Vermiel became head coach though so I'm missing your point I guess.
Look, it's obvious that the Chiefs haven't drafted perfectly over the last 15 years but then again, neither has any other team. The draft is the biggest crap shoot in all of sports. I have no proof but I'd venture a guess that the Chiefs have drafted no more "tweeners" than any other team in the league.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 04:39 PM
You started the discussion, don't try to pass yourself off as a victim.
Like I said, you responded to NMT1's post (because you don't like his opinions) even though that post was directed at someone other than you.
I feel truly sorry that you painted yourself into an intellectual corner. I really do.Whatever you need to tell yourself. Like I said this childish and a waste of time. If you want to talk sports fine, let's do it. If you want to nit-pick, find someone else.
milkman
02-09-2005, 04:39 PM
I don't know how many times DV has tried to convert Easy to HB. Maybe you have some inside knowledge that I don't. He's listed as a FB on their depth chart and has been since day one. Yeah, they've said they'd like to get him to carry the ball some because he has the talent to do so. They've also called his blocking suspect in the past but I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china.
Kris Wilson was drafted as a TE and is listed as a TE on the roster. He may technically be an H-back but I've seen Gonzales line up as a WR and move around in the backfield. Does that mean he's not a TE?
How do you know they won't trust Wilson to play TE if Gonzales gets hurt?
I'm not sure I understand the question about the Chiefs drafts garnering players of starting ability. They have drafted some starters since Vermiel has been HC: Sims, Allen, and Fujita. Many of the "tweeners" were drafted before Vermiel became head coach though so I'm missing your point I guess.
Look, it's obvious that the Chiefs haven't drafted perfectly over the last 15 years but then again, neither has any other team. The draft is the biggest crap shoot in all of sports. I have no proof but I'd venture a guess that the Chiefs have drafted no more "tweeners" than any other team in the league.
They may not have drafted any more 'tweeners', but I think think they've done more than their share of hitting crap in the shoot.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 04:46 PM
Whatever you need to tell yourself. Like I said this childish and a waste of time. If you want to talk sports fine, let's do it. If you want to nit-pick, find someone else.
What a freaking crybaby.
Attack someone's opinion and then whine about being abused when it happens to you.
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 05:30 PM
What a freaking crybaby.
Attack someone's opinion and then whine about being abused when it happens to you.
Aren't you doing something similiar? You say not to bitch about Carl Peterson because we've been over this and over this. Then you go on a personal crusade to nit-pick somebody because, why you agree in principal with the sentiment, they didn't present the case as you see fit. Take your nit-picking and shove it. Get over yourself, you self-righteous, know-it-all.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 08:49 PM
Aren't you doing something similiar? You say not to bitch about Carl Peterson because we've been over this and over this. Then you go on a personal crusade to nit-pick somebody because, why you agree in principal with the sentiment, they didn't present the case as you see fit. Take your nit-picking and shove it. Get over yourself, you self-righteous, know-it-all.
:deevee:
BigChiefFan
02-09-2005, 09:03 PM
:deevee:
Look man. Let's be adult about this. We don't have to keep caring out something so childish and immature. We need to just move-on. Nobody gives a shit about this, myself included. You don't want to hear it, but you keep provoking and bringing it up. Drop the ****ing thing already.
htismaqe
02-09-2005, 09:35 PM
Look man. Let's be adult about this. We don't have to keep caring out something so childish and immature. We need to just move-on. Nobody gives a shit about this, myself included. You don't want to hear it, but you keep provoking and bringing it up. Drop the ****ing thing already.
Look man, don't get involved if you can't handle the consequences.
Once again, I'm forced to remind you that you, UNPROVOKED, responded to a post that was addressed to someone else.
When the discussion got heated, you turned out this "come on man, let's be mature about this" bullshit.
I'm ready to let it drop, if you're ready to acknowledge that you have nobody to blame but yourself.
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