I don't want the Chiefs to trade their 2nd round pick for Surtain.

[Kris Kringle]

I like the idea of obtaining Surtain, but not for a 2nd rd pick. I'd give up a 4th, but Miami wouldn't take it. Isn't there a chance that they'll release him if they don't get the deal that they want? I would prefer that they wait until then. I would also prefer that they pursue the CBs that are free agents and won't require a draft pick in compensation. This is a CB rich off season. We should be able to get a good or really good CB without giving up picks. Do you agree?

Edit:
You might find this odd, but I would be willing to give up a 2nd rd pick for Surtain if the Chiefs also signed another top knotch CB like Law or Rolle.

[Saulbadguy]

Thats ok. I don't want you to post anymore, either.

[TRR]

And who would we draft that would be better than an All Pro CB with our 2nd round pick. We will be lucky if our first pick pans out.

[ct]

agree

[DenverChief]

Thats ok. I don't want you to post anymore, either.
ROFL


Nah I would give up a 2nd I'd bet $10 CP trades down Draft day anyway gives up our 15 for 2 2nds or a 2nd and a third:shrug:

[KcMizzou]

Thats ok. I don't want you to post anymore, either. Man.. you're just full of piss and vinegar tonight, Ali Chi3fs.


:D

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Kris Kringle not about giving

[Alphaman]

In general, I'm with you. However, if Carl can acquire a 2nd CB in free agency (Lucas, Dyson, Smith), I'd be ok with it.

[Pants]

And who would we draft that would be better than an All Pro CB with our 2nd round pick. We will be lucky if our first pick pans out.

Exactly.

[ct]

And who would we draft that would be better than an All Pro CB with our 2nd round pick. We will be lucky if our first pick pans out.

sign a FA corner like baxter,law, rolle, draft rogers #1, LB/DE #2

[Saulbadguy]

Man.. you're just full of piss and vinegar tonight, Ali Chi3fs.


:D
Hey now...that was below the belt. Besides, whats wrong with a little Gunther_Fan hatin?

[KcMizzou]

Hey now...that was below the belt. Besides, whats wrong with a little Gunther_Fan hatin?I had no idea this was GF. I'm so out of the loop...

By all means, carry on...

[DenverChief]

:whackit:


:LOL: oh sure put the qualifier in there now

[Kris Kringle]

And who would we draft that would be better than an All Pro CB with our 2nd round pick. We will be lucky if our first pick pans out. I'd rather sign Law or Rolle or another CB on the FA market and keep our 2nd rd pick for a DE or WR.

[FloridaChief]

:LOL: oh sure put the qualifier in there now


ROFL

[Kris Kringle]

In general, I'm with you. However, if Carl can acquire a 2nd CB in free agency (Lucas, Dyson, Smith), I'd be ok with it. I concur. I should have added that. I think I'll edit.

[el borracho]

In general, I'm with you. However, if Carl can acquire a 2nd CB in free agency (Lucas, Dyson, Smith), I'd be ok with it.
I don't see how we can afford two new, high-priced corners when we are already paying Warfield over 4 million. Would you really have Warfield as a 4 million dollar nickel back? Or do you imagine Lucas, Dyson or Smith as the nickel back?

[Eleazar]

Maybe we can trade our second for some automatic weapons.

[Saulbadguy]

Maybe we can trade our second for some automatic weapons.
ROFL

[DenverChief]

I don't see how we can afford two new, high-priced corners when we are already paying Warfield over 4 million. Would you really have Warfield as a 4 million dollar nickel back? Or do you imagine Lucas, Dyson or Smith as the nickel back?


3.3M in 05...I started a thread abuot this very concern of mine

[FloridaChief]

Maybe we can trade our second for some automatic weapons.

Best post ever! ROFL

[morphius]

I'm a bit worried about trading a secnd pick for him, not because I don't think he is worth it, but I was hoping to get 3 (LB, CB, DE) starters and a nickle back in FA and the first two rounds of the draft. I fear this may force us to take a CB in the first round no matter what.

I have to hope they have one heck of a plan, but I DO NOT want to see us trade down in the first.

[Amnorix]

Surtain is easily worth a 2nd. EASILY!

[Amnorix]

I'm a bit worried about trading a secnd pick for him, not because I don't think he is worth it, but I was hoping to get 3 (LB, CB, DE) starters and a nickle back in FA and the first two rounds of the draft. I fear this may force us to take a CB in the first round no matter what.

I have to hope they have one heck of a plan, but I DO NOT want to see us trade down in the first.

I completely don't understand this post. You're getting a guy who can start at CB right away by spending a 2nd round pick. Why would this "force you to take a CB in the first round no matter what"??

[TRR]

I'd rather sign Law or Rolle or another CB on the FA market and keep our 2nd rd pick for a DE or WR.

Again, Law is in a wheel chair and is 31 years old. Rolle isn't even on the same planet as Patrick Surtain is ability wise. And what makes you think our 2nd round pick will even pan out. Our draft history surely doesn't suggest that it will.

We can still pull out Rolle/Trotter/_______ even if we trade for Surtain.

[morphius]

I completely don't understand this post. You're getting a guy who can start at CB right away by spending a 2nd round pick. Why would this "force you to take a CB in the first round no matter what"??
Well, Gun reportably said he wants 2 or 3 CB's this offseason. Surtain would be one of our big FA and we probably will have money for only one more, which would probably be an established LB as I don't remember there being great ones coming out in the draft in our range. What should be available in the first round at pick 15 was either a DE or a CB. The Chiefs org seems like they like Hicks enough to stick with him and with CB being such a need will force their hands.

[DTLB58]

Well, One thing about a trade for Surtain it would eliminate us worrying about Carl signing another draft pick.

[jspchief]

First off, you have to understand why we're willing to spend a draft pick on someone who almost certainly will be a FA anyway.

The way I see it, there are two good reasons.

1. He's definately the guy we want. The FO doesn't want to take any chances of this guy getting away. Obviously there's a glut of quality CBs, but maybe they see exactly what they want in this one guy.

2. To avoid a bidding war, therefore keeping the cost down. Granted, he's still going to make big money, but this insures we're not up against a team that just offers stupid money (see Chicago/Tait).

My guess is it's one of these or both.

When it's all said and done, we might save a million or two, and we lock up the guy we want. The trade-off is the 2nd rounder.

It's not too unlike the Terrell Owens trade. Although there weren't any other FA WRs in the same ballpark as Owens at the time. Even so, the Eagles spent a pick to insure they got their man.

[morphius]

Well, One thing about a trade for Surtain it would eliminate us worrying about Carl signing another draft pick.
Not if it is a second round pick that we trade, we don't normally have problems with them.

[Lbedrock1]

And who would we draft that would be better than an All Pro CB with our 2nd round pick. We will be lucky if our first pick pans out.
Maybe another D.T., Deron cherry, albert Lewis, but who really knows. I agree not to give up a high draft pick for a player that might be released. But maybe we shouldn't draft this year and trade all our picks away to other teams for their players. It is a gamble either way.

[TRR]

Maybe another D.T., Deron cherry, albert Lewis, but who really knows. I agree not to give up a high draft pick for a player that might be released. But maybe we shouldn't draft this year and trade all our picks away to other teams for their players. It is a gamble either way.

Another DT?? Are you serious?? We have Sims and Siavii who we just drafted. We also have Dalton and Browning. We just spent numerous draft picks on guys like Montique Sharpe, Eddie Freeman, and Eric Downing. Why would we possibly draft another DT in the 2nd round.

If we draft a DT with our 2nd round pick...I will officially give up hope.

[BigChiefFan]

Surtain is worth the pick. He's an instant upgrade to the position. He automatically moves Warfield to the number two CB. How people can't see that's worth a 2nd rounder is beyond me. The window is THIS YEAR!!!! Surtain is a PRO BOWLER and still has a few good years left. He's better than any rookie we could land.

[el borracho]

Another DT?? Are you serious?? We have Sims and Siavii who we just drafted. We also have Dalton and Browning. We just spent numerous draft picks on guys like Montique Sharpe, Eddie Freeman, and Eric Downing. Why would we possibly draft another DT in the 2nd round.

If we draft a DT with our 2nd round pick...I will officially give up hope.
I'm pretty sure he meant DT to = Derrick Thomas not Defensive Tackle.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ts/11008987.htm (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/11008987.htm)


Kansas City has emerged as the leading suitor for cornerback Patrick Surtain, but a deal Sunday didn't seem imminent.

Chiefs President Carl Peterson told the Kansas City Star that he has spoken with Surtain's agent about a contract.

But a source said Sunday that the Dolphins haven't recently spoken with Peterson about a trade, indicating contract parameters must be agreed upon first.

"It's in the hands of Miami," Peterson said. "They're looking for a draft choice. And it's also in the hands of the agent, who's looking for a big contract. We've talked, but the number is too big.

"If it gets reasonable, then fine. The first part is do the dollars make sense? Now they're little a high."
--------
Complicating negotiations is the Chiefs' lack of a third-round draft choice. It's believed Kansas City wants to have two first-day picks in April's draft, which makes it more likely the Chiefs will offer a 2005 mid-round pick and a 2006 first-day pick for Surtain.

The Dolphins would prefer to have a trade finalized by Wednesday so they won't have to carry his $8.4 million salary-cap number into the free-agent signing period.

[TRR]

I'm pretty sure he meant DT to = Derrick Thomas not Defensive Tackle.

Re-reading, I see. I saw DT and thought Oh Lord, not another second round defensive tackle.

As it is, we won't be getting DT out of the 2nd round of this draft.

[suds79]

While I don't like the idea of losing a 2nd, Surtain is simply one of the best CBs in the league and would serve us well for years.

[The Bad Guy]

It's amazing how much value you guys put on the Chiefs ability to draft 2nd round talent. Simply amazing.

28 year old, 3 time Pro Bowl corner is available and a 2nd round is the compensation to basically get him and remove the threat of a bidding war and you guys bitch about it.

If this trade doesn't happen, you'll be the same ones bitching about the pick anyway.

The Chiefs are one of the WORST organizations at drafting young talent. If they were the Ravens, Patriots, or Eagles then yes, keep the pick.

But our scouting department sucks. WE can get a difference maker on defense and you guys want to keep the pick for an unknown.

The only corner on the market who is in the same class as Surtain is Law. Smoot isn't, neither is Lucas, Baxter (who turned down 13 million from the Ravens), or any other soon-to-be free agent corner.

Corner has been a god damn plague for this team since 2001 and we have a chance to get one of the best and you want to offer a 4th rounder?

Amazing.

[Deberg_1990]

It's amazing how much value you guys put on the Chiefs ability to draft 2nd round talent. Simply amazing.

28 year old, 3 time Pro Bowl corner is available and a 2nd round is the compensation to basically get him and remove the threat of a bidding war and you guys bitch about it.

If this trade doesn't happen, you'll be the same ones bitching about the pick anyway.

The Chiefs are one of the WORST organizations at drafting young talent. If they were the Ravens, Patriots, or Eagles then yes, keep the pick.

But our scouting department sucks. WE can get a difference maker on defense and you guys want to keep the pick for an unknown.

The only corner on the market who is in the same class as Surtain is Law. Smoot isn't, neither is Lucas, Baxter (who turned down 13 million from the Ravens), or any other soon-to-be free agent corner.

Corner has been a god damn plague for this team since 2001 and we have a chance to get one of the best and you want to offer a 4th rounder?

Amazing.

my thoughts exactly. Carl would just end up drafting some Fullback with the pick anyways, so i dont mind giving it up.

[siberian khatru]

It's believed Kansas City wants to have two first-day picks in April's draft

Oh, shit, they've fallen in love with some 4th-round talent they desperately want to draft in the second round. :rolleyes:

[BigChiefFan]

We really do need to pull the trigger on this. This is a no-brainer.

[The Bad Guy]

Oh, shit, they've fallen in love with some 4th-round talent they desperately want to draft in the second round. :rolleyes:

Yep, can never have too many fullbacks or converted safties on the team.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Get it done, Carl, you asshole. Pro Bowl CBs don't come cheap. A 2nd rounder is a freakin' bargain, and so will the contract because of what a player of his talent will do for our secondary (although we can't stop at him with the signings).

Get it done, Carl, you moron.

[morphius]

The Chiefs are one of the WORST organizations at drafting young talent. If they were the Ravens, Patriots, or Eagles then yes, keep the pick.

All things being equal, I wouldn't want the Ravens drafting my offensive talent...

I'm just saying.

Morphius
Not going to really bitch either way if this trade happens or doesn't as long as we get one of the top tier CB's.

[bringbackmarty]

yeah I got a bad feeling about this. It stinks like the year before last. We'll end up with law in a wheelchair, or noone at all.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Chuck Cook needs to be fired, seriously. Dreadful.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

yeah I got a bad feeling about this. It stinks like the year before last. We'll end up with law in a wheelchair, or noone at all.

ROFL

When I read this I all the sudden thought of seeing the press conference on TV with Dick and Carl there and Ty Law in a wheelchair holding up a number 21 jersey and getting his picture taken by all the media there. And it was then...that moment...that I decided that the Chiefs are to never be taken seriously in how they run things...and to never follow them again because of the embarrassment.

[Rausch]

ROFL

When I read this I all the sudden thought of seeing the press conference on TV with Dick and Carl there and Ty Law in a wheelchair holding up a number 21 jersey and getting his picture taken by all the media there. And it was then...that moment...that I decided that the Chiefs are to never be taken seriously in how they run things...and to never follow them again because of the embarrassment.

:shake:

[Eleazar]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ts/11008987.htm (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/11008987.htm)


Kansas City has emerged as the leading suitor for cornerback Patrick Surtain, but a deal Sunday didn't seem imminent.

Chiefs President Carl Peterson told the Kansas City Star that he has spoken with Surtain's agent about a contract.

But a source said Sunday that the Dolphins haven't recently spoken with Peterson about a trade, indicating contract parameters must be agreed upon first.

"It's in the hands of Miami," Peterson said. "They're looking for a draft choice. And it's also in the hands of the agent, who's looking for a big contract. We've talked, but the number is too big.

"If it gets reasonable, then fine. The first part is do the dollars make sense? Now they're little a high."
--------
Complicating negotiations is the Chiefs' lack of a third-round draft choice. It's believed Kansas City wants to have two first-day picks in April's draft, which makes it more likely the Chiefs will offer a 2005 mid-round pick and a 2006 first-day pick for Surtain.

The Dolphins would prefer to have a trade finalized by Wednesday so they won't have to carry his $8.4 million salary-cap number into the free-agent signing period.


Hmmm. sounds like Carl is serious. this might be the best 2nd round pick he ever makes.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

:shake:

I don't care if it's Ray Lewis, if the dude is in a wheelchair stay the **** away from him. Damaged goods.

[Eleazar]

I don't care if it's Ray Lewis, if the dude is in a wheelchair stay the **** away from him. Damaged goods.

Dude, how many people do you think can have surgery on one of their lower extremities and immediately walk around on it? A lot of athletes have foot surgery. You didn't see the Red Sox scrambling for a replacement for Curt Schilling this offseason did you?

[The Bad Guy]

I don't care if it's Ray Lewis, if the dude is in a wheelchair stay the **** away from him. Damaged goods.

Well if I had foot surgery, I would much rather go around in a wheel chair than walk around on crutches and have a further problem.

A foot injury isn't an ACL tear.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Well if I had foot surgery, I would much rather go around in a wheel chair than walk around on crutches and have a further problem.

A foot injury isn't an ACL tear.

He won't be able to participate in training camp, he's not guaranteed to even be the same player he used to be, 31 years old, everything says stay the hell away. I don't see no glorious comeback Priest Holmes recovery.

[|Zach|]

Maybe we can trade our second for some automatic weapons.
Zing!

[The Bad Guy]

He won't be able to participate in training camp, he's not guaranteed to even be the same player he used to be, 31 years old, everything says stay the hell away. I don't see no glorious comeback Priest Holmes recovery.

Won't be able to practice in traning camp? Where did you see this nonsense?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Won't be able to practice in traning camp? Where did you see this nonsense?

Heard it on ESPN. Although they said it would he would miss half of training camp, according to doctors or something.

Too risky.

It's common sense to stay away from the guy, at least until he can walk a freakin' couple of steps. Something says don't do it, I don't know.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I guess the good thing is that no one will touch Law until he can at least get up and walk, and that won't be for awhile. So he's on hold then, I'd say, and take a look at others that aren't in wheelchairs at the moment.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway, the chances of the Chiefs signing him aren't that great.

[Eleazar]

I guess the good thing is that no one will touch Law until he can at least get up and walk, and that won't be for awhile. So he's on hold then, I'd say, and take a look at others that aren't in wheelchairs at the moment.

I really doubt that there isn't a single team willing to sign him until he's fully recovered. It's not like he Bo Jackson-ed his hip or anything.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I really doubt that there isn't a single team willing to sign him until he's fully recovered. It's not like he Bo Jackson-ed his hip or anything.

If I'm a GM, I'm not giving that man a 10 mil on up signing bonus. Hell, 7 million is pushing it. He's going to have to prove he's fine.

[crossbow]

If the Chiefs would have drafted even a few good players in the 2nd round these last ten years, then I would agree with you. But they have shown a talent for screwing up no brainer picks so they might as well get some production out of the pick even if it means they have to trade it to a club that knows what they are doing. Having a solid player on your team sure beats using the draft to get a guy that you are gonna cut in three years.

Eddie Freeman didn't even make to year three.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Where the flip is Eddie Freeman now anyway?

[crossbow]

Where the flip is Eddie Freeman now anyway?

Some team picked him up and sent him to NFLE. Cards I think, not sure but I do know it wasn't Chicago. Tait would have killed him.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Some team picked him up and sent him to NFLE. Cards I think, not sure but I do know it wasn't Chicago. Tait would have killed him.

lol, well, Tait probably wouldn't have been able to put his hands on him.

[booger]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Olineman involved in the deal with a pick or picks. Welbourn or Bober make sense. With cap restrictions though more likely Brett Williams or Kevin Sampson. Just a guess.

[Mr. Kotter]

Reading through this thread, I still don't understand HOW Surtain could, ever, be any worse than our usual second round picks. What's not to like? If he gets a clean bill of health, it seems like a no brainer to me... :shrug:

[Saulbadguy]

Reading through this thread, I still don't understand HOW Surtain could, ever, be any worse than our usual second round picks. What's not to like? If he gets a clean bill of health, it seems like a no brainer to me... :shrug:
The answer is simple. If its something Gunther_Fan thinks is a bad idea, it must be a GOOD idea.

[jspchief]

Reading through this thread, I still don't understand HOW Surtain could, ever, be any worse than our usual second round picks. What's not to like? If he gets a clean bill of health, it seems like a no brainer to me... :shrug:

You're missing the point. The people that are against giving upthe pick are against it because they know Surtain will get cut anyway. It's basically saying "why pay for something this week that will be free next week?"

I'm not saying I agree, I'm just explaining their point of view. Personally, I don't care if we give up the whole damn draft if it gets us a good defense

[htismaqe]

You're missing the point. The people that are against giving upthe pick are against it because they know Surtain will get cut anyway. It's basically saying "why pay for something this week that will be free next week?"

I'm not saying I agree, I'm just explaining their point of view. Personally, I don't care if we give up the whole damn draft if it gets us a good defense

They'd have a point, except that the Dolphins are not going to cut Surtain.

[Mr. Kotter]

They'd have a point, except that the Dolphins are not going to cut Surtain.

Exactly.

[eazyb81]

Why do people really think the Dolphins will just cut Surtain? Sure they have some cap problems right now, but don't you think they would cut some other players before their All Pro CB? The Chiefs are having a little bit of cap problems right now, does anyone think we will cut Tony Gonzalez?

Miami wants to trade Surtain to get value for him, and also to help them keep some more players rather then cutting them. However, if push comes to shove, they would much rather cut underachieving players (Boston, Seau, Zgonina, etc.) then get rid of Surtain.

Personally, I think Surtain is a perfect fit for this defense and will be the type of player that can shut down 1/3 of the field. I would like to see if we could give them next year's 2nd rounder (and maybe a 5th this year), but I would give up a 2nd this year if we have to. Surtain paired with a runstuffing MLB like Trotter and whoever our 1st round is could really improve this defense next year.

[Eleazar]

Has this douche been banned or what? Why the million screen names?

[eazyb81]

Has this douche been banned or what? Why the million screen names?

Huh? What are you talking about?

[Eleazar]

Huh? What are you talking about?

Not you, Kris Kringle

[Mr. Kotter]

Has this douche been banned or what? Why the million screen names?

If Duhnise is still here.... :shrug: