Is Rolle special?

[the Talking Can]

I understand that $15 mill is the going rate for a top CB...but is Rolle on the level of Law/Bailey/Surtain?

I honestly know little about him, and before FA started I would have said he was a 2nd tier CB. But, it looks like we're attempting to give him the largest signing bonus in KC history.

Is he a game changer?

I know our CBs blow, but I'd rather overpay for Hartwell than for a CB. A MLB is involved almost every play, unlike a CB. Kind of like, imho, a RB is waaaay more important than a WR simply based on the number of times a RB will touch the ball.

What baffles me is that Gunther seems to be onboard, I'd think he'd be dying for a game changer in the front seven.

Give me Hartwell and a plan B CB, then draft a CB in the 1st round which is loaded with CB talent.

The longer this takes the more I feel like the Chiefs are about to make a huge and expensive mistake.


p.s.

I think Smoot is a far better CB, and younger, and healthier and I'd much rather overpay for him, if not Hartwell.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Some say (Whitlock for one) that he isn't a leader, he does well when the team does well but goes into a funk if the team does. They also say he seems to have matured a bit over the last couple of seasons.

[Gaz]

...Give me Hartwell and a plan B CB, then draft a CB in the 1st round which is loaded with CB talent...

Yep.

xoxo~
Gaz
Firmly seated on that particular bandwagon.

[Abba-Dabba]

I understand that $15 mill is the going rate for a top CB...but is Rolle on the level of Law/Bailey/Surtain?

I honestly know little about him, and before FA started I would have said he was a 2nd tier CB. But, it looks like we're attempting to give him the largest signing bonus in KC history.

Is he a game changer?

I know our CBs blow, but I'd rather overpay for Hartwell than for a CB. A MLB is involved almost every play, unlike a CB. Kind of like, imho, a RB is waaaay more important than a WR simply based on the number of times a RB will touch the ball.

What baffles me is that Gunther seems to be onboard, I'd think he'd be dying for a game changer in the front seven.

Give me Hartwell and a plan B CB, then draft a CB in the 1st round which is loaded with CB talent.

The longer this takes the more I feel like the Chiefs are about to make a huge and expensive mistake.


p.s.

I think Smoot is a far better CB, and younger, and healthier and I'd much rather overpay for him, if not Hartwell.

Rolle has the talent to be a top flight CB. No doubt about it. Has he produced they way you would expect of someone his talent? Not in my eyes. The injuries he has had pretty much every year, except 2 seasons that he has been in the league have stunted his production that would elevate him to be considered in my eyes a top CB. Of course though, my eyes aren't too good anymore.

He is however a tad small. Pretty close to the stature of Marvin Minnis if that gives you any clue.

I agree with you on Smoot though. I would rather take a chance on him than Rolle at this point. But, I think in the end the FA's they will sign will be Rolle and Bell.

[keg in kc]

It's kind of funny, but Whitlock talks about him like he's nothing, but I've heard a couple of Tennessee columnists give interviews, and they talk about him like he's the second coming.

Anyway, it's free agency, a crapshoot by nature. There's no telling what he'd be if he signed here. Big ticket free agents tend to bomb at least as often as they make a minor impact. Rarely do you get what you're looking for, which is a guy who turns things around on his own.

Which is why we're looking for more than one, I'm sure. Rolle by himself won't turn this around any more than Hartwell by himself would. We really need them both, plus a couple more pieces.

[HipHopper4Life]

Realistically, I don't see us spending the combined 25 million in signing bonus money that Hartwell and Rolle want. We should focus on getting Hartwell then add a guy like Andre Dyson and draft a corner or wait and see if Ty Law or Surtain come at discounted prices once the free agent money starts drying up.

If we were planning on getting one of the 15 million dollar corners, we should have actively persued Antonio Pierce to play MLB from the beginning.

Our game plan seems to be to bring in a bunch of players and see which one signs for the amount we have predetermined we want to spend.

If we wanted three guys to split the pie as Vermeil says, we shoud have been more realistic and targeted Pierce, Baxter and Dyson in free agency then drafted an outside LB in roud one.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

But, I think in the end the FA's they will sign will be Rolle and Bell.
...and they both scare me a bit from an injury standpoint.

[Abba-Dabba]

...and they both scare me a bit from an injury standpoint.

Understandable. Both of them have had their bouts. Rolle does concern me alittle more than Bell does though.

[T-post Tom]

If you give Len P. @ CBSportsline any credibility (which I do), he has Rolle ranked as the #1 FA CB available right now.


Prisco's top defensive backs (Free Agents)
Rank Player Pos. Team
1 Samari Rolle CB Titans
2 Fred Smoot CB Redskins
3 Anthony Henry CB Browns
4 Ken Lucas CB Seahawks
5 Gary Baxter CB Ravens
Top Free Agents | Free Agents By Team

[Abba-Dabba]

If you give Len P. @ CBSportsline any credibility (which I do), he has Rolle ranked as the #1 FA CB available right now.


Prisco's top defensive backs (Free Agents)
Rank Player Pos. Team
1 Samari Rolle CB Titans
2 Fred Smoot CB Redskins
3 Anthony Henry CB Browns
4 Ken Lucas CB Seahawks
5 Gary Baxter CB Ravens
Top Free Agents | Free Agents By Team

I can't stand Pastabelly. Eh, to each their own...

[suds79]

I understand that $15 mill is the going rate for a top CB...but is Rolle on the level of Law/Bailey/Surtain?

I honestly know little about him, and before FA started I would have said he was a 2nd tier CB. But, it looks like we're attempting to give him the largest signing bonus in KC history.

Is he a game changer?

I know our CBs blow, but I'd rather overpay for Hartwell than for a CB. A MLB is involved almost every play, unlike a CB. Kind of like, imho, a RB is waaaay more important than a WR simply based on the number of times a RB will touch the ball.

What baffles me is that Gunther seems to be onboard, I'd think he'd be dying for a game changer in the front seven.

Give me Hartwell and a plan B CB, then draft a CB in the 1st round which is loaded with CB talent.

The longer this takes the more I feel like the Chiefs are about to make a huge and expensive mistake.


p.s.

I think Smoot is a far better CB, and younger, and healthier and I'd much rather overpay for him, if not Hartwell.


Yes, yes , yes. Man if there was ever a perfect post here it is.

As much as Samari would be a good upgrade at CB, he's not a shutdown CB and certainly isn't in the same class as some of the other guys.

Yeah I just dont' get it, if we're going to throw down some big jack, then do it on Hartwell and pick up some somewhat lesser known CB who's cheeper.

You just then gotta be sure to get Antrel Rolle or Carlos Rogers in the 1st then.

[HemiEd]

If we do not get someone that can at least cover for a few seconds I don't think if fugging matters what the front seven do. Last year repeatedly the opposing QB could just lob a ball in the direction of the receiver that Bartee or McCleon were covering once some pressure started to happen. IMHO we would need seven Pro Bowlers in the front to make up for those two.

[Ultra Peanut]

I'd rather overpay for Hartwell than for a CB. Agreed completely.

[Archie Bunker]

Hartwell would make a bigger difference in my opinion. Rolle is good but it starts with the front 7.

[Archie Bunker]

targeted Pierce, Baxter and Dyson in free agency then drafted an outside LB in roud one.

The thing that concerns me with Dyson is that if Gunther liked him I would think he would have been brought in during the 2nd wave with Smith and Bell.

[BigChiefFan]

Rolle is a top 5 corner. I'm too lazy to look it up, but this guy has held stellar WRs to less than stellar games. He held Joe Horn to his lowest totals ever and has held Marvin Harrison to less than 40 yards in a game. He's a stud.

[CanadaKC]

Rolle is the top CB available IMO. He's among the top 10 of all FA's.
I wouldn't want Woodson (injury, attitude)...Smoot (although physical...
not nearly on par with Rolle)...and the rest don't even come close.

[TRR]

From watching Rolle play, he is as good as it gets in one on one coverage. He runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, and is decently physical for a CB. He isn't that great in run support. He's adequate at best. However, he is a ball hawk, and has made a ton of big plays in the past.

When healthy, Samari Rolle is an extremely good CB. He is a guy that you could lock up on Randy Moss outside, and feel good about it. He has decent size at 6'0, 180.

He isn't my first choice, but his experience in Gun's scheme could be very, very helpful!!

[Chiefnj]

Rolle is a better corner than Hartwell is a MLB. If you are going to overpay, you might as well get the better talent for the long run.

[Anyong Bluth]

if anyone thinks a rookie CB is going to come in and make the same impact as either Rolle or Smoot- you're NUTS. With even less contact and learning to adjust I just don't buy this happening. Look at all the top CB - I can't think of one that didn't have some growing pains regardless of how good they are. rookies are just like that. I'd be more comfortable trying to jump up for Johnson from UT and then sign Hartwell, Smoot or Rolle. Safetys can be picked up here and there and hell you could even switched Bartee to S - maybe when he doesn't have to turn his head he could play... since we keep hearing he's the most athletic guy on the team... whatever that means.

[TRR]

Rolle is a better corner than Hartwell is a MLB. If you are going to overpay, you might as well get the better talent for the long run.

I'm not sure I would go that far. Edge Hartwell is an outstanding LB who outplayed 'supposedly' the best LB in the game last season.

The problem w/Rolle is that the CB market price has been set so high, that it forces you to pay out the rear if you want a top flight CB.

[Archie Bunker]

I'm not sure I would go that far. Edge Hartwell is an outstanding LB who outplayed 'supposedly' the best LB in the game last season.

The problem w/Rolle is that the CB market price has been set so high, that it forces you to pay out the rear if you want a top flight CB.

I like Hartwell and Rolle but a bad ass MLB cures a lot of problems. If he is any kind of leader the rest of the defense will raise their games.

[TRR]

I like Hartwell and Rolle but a bad ass MLB cures a lot of problems. If he is any kind of leader the rest of the defense will raise their games.

I agree. I want Hartwell a lot more than I do Samari Rolle. Hartwell is young, athletic, and has learned the game under one of the best LB's ever to play.

If I had to pick any FA we could sign this offseason, it would be Edge Hartwell. Because of that...he'll sign with Arizona.

[DanT]

The Chiefs cornerbacks are just the corn kernels in the sh!t that is the Chiefs defense. Just because you can see them, that doesn't mean they are holding the problem together. If we took the other team's best receiver off the field, would the other 10 Chiefs defenders be worth anything other than a courtesy flush?

I don't think so. I'd rather see the big upgrades on defense be at other positions.

[Archie Bunker]

I agree. I want Hartwell a lot more than I do Samari Rolle. Hartwell is young, athletic, and has learned the game under one of the best LB's ever to play.

If I had to pick any FA we could sign this offseason, it would be Edge Hartwell. Because of that...he'll sign with Arizona.

If the Chiefs are planning on going with Fujita and a rookie at OLB a veteran MLB is biggest need on this team by far.

[TRR]

I was looking at Hartwell stats the other day. His season in 2002 was unbelievable. Hartwell had:

142 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 fumble forces, and 4 passes defended.

That's putting up some numbers considering the talented D he was playing in.

[TRR]

If the Chiefs are planning on going with Fujita and a rookie at OLB a veteran MLB is biggest need on this team by far.

I would agree, and I pray that they either sign Kendrell Bell, or that Shawn Barber can come back from his injury quicker than expected. At the 15th pick, I'm not enthused with any of the OLB prospects that may fall to us. I like the Kendrell Bell option a lot better.

[Pants]

Samari is a baller. He'd be my #1 priority. Our secondary is much worse than our LB corps and none of you can argue against that. We get Rolle and someone decent to replace Mitchell - we dominate. We get a good LBer to replace Mitchell and a rookie CB - we go back to getting burned on deep routes. Warfield + Rolle would be one of the top secondaries in the NFL IMO.

[milkman]

Samari is a baller. He'd be my #1 priority. Our secondary is much worse than our LB corps and none of you can argue against that. We get Rolle and someone decent to replace Mitchell - we dominate. We get a good LBer to replace Mitchell and a rookie CB - we go back to getting burned on deep routes. Warfield + Rolle would be one of the top secondaries in the NFL IMO.

With the guys on the roster right now, the LB corps is every bit as bad as the secondary.

And because the captain of the D is the MLB, and Mitchell seems to be dumber than a box of rocks, that make the situation at LB worse, IMO.

[Pants]

With the guys on the roster right now, the LB corps is every bit as bad as the secondary.

And because the captain of the D is the MLB, and Mitchell seems to be dumber than a box of rocks, that make the situation at LB worse, IMO.

That's why I said we get a decent FA LB to replace him while getting Rolle. My point was that getting a top FA LB and then drafting a rookie corner (all CBs want as much as Rolle in FA the only other choice would be getting a rookie) won't do as much good as getting the best CB and a mid-range LB.

[TRR]

That's why I said we get a decent FA LB to replace him while getting Rolle. My point was that getting a top FA LB and then drafting a rookie corner (all CBs want as much as Rolle in FA the only other choice would be getting a rookie) won't do as much good as getting the best CB and a mid-range LB.

Your adding Hartwell into the mix, and then saying CB is a bigger concern.

Take it like this:

Starters at LB right now include Scott Fujita, Kawika Mitchell, Keyaron Fox. With backups being Caver, Beisel, Jones.

Starters at CB right now include Warfield and Bartee, with backups being Battle, McCleon, Sapp.

I'm not sure you could argue either being as bad as another, however with the new emphasis placed on the 5 yard contact rule, and MLB being a leadership role...I would say LB is a bigger concern.

[milkman]

That's why I said we get a decent FA LB to replace him while getting Rolle. My point was that getting a top FA LB and then drafting a rookie corner (all CBs want as much as Rolle in FA the only other choice would be getting a rookie) won't do as much good as getting the best CB and a mid-range LB.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "decent" exactly.

Assuming, however, that we do sign Rolle, and our secondary improves it's overall play, I still say you need someone in the front 7 that is an impact type player, that can raise the level of play around him, because it won't matter how much improvement the secondary makes, if the D can't stop the run or get after the QB.

We'll still have a D that gives up 4 yards a pop on the ground, and that QBs can pass at will, because CBs can't maintain coverage for more than 3-4 seconds in today's NFL.

[milkman]

Speaking of CBs, has Andre Dyson made any visits?

[Chiefnj]

I'm not sure I would go that far. Edge Hartwell is an outstanding LB who outplayed 'supposedly' the best LB in the game last season.

The problem w/Rolle is that the CB market price has been set so high, that it forces you to pay out the rear if you want a top flight CB.


Hartwell is not an "outstanding" LB. If Hartwell outplayed Lewis last year there would be more teams interested in him other than the Cards and Chiefs.

[Shag]

Hartwell is not an "outstanding" LB. If Hartwell outplayed Lewis last year there would be more teams interested in him other than the Cards and Chiefs.

So, you have to outplay Ray Lewis to be considered "outstanding"? That's one short list...

[Pants]

Your adding Hartwell into the mix, and then saying CB is a bigger concern.

Take it like this:

Starters at LB right now include Scott Fujita, Kawika Mitchell, Keyaron Fox. With backups being Caver, Beisel, Jones.

Starters at CB right now include Warfield and Bartee, with backups being Battle, McCleon, Sapp.

I'm not sure you could argue either being as bad as another, however with the new emphasis placed on the 5 yard contact rule, and MLB being a leadership role...I would say LB is a bigger concern.

I'm not adding Hartwell into the mix, he's at the top of his FA class, like Rolle is. I'm saying get Rolle and a 2nd tier FA to replace Mitchell.

[milkman]

Hartwell is not an "outstanding" LB. If Hartwell outplayed Lewis last year there would be more teams interested in him other than the Cards and Chiefs.

There are more teams interested.
He's on his way to Seattle next.

There are more teams, but I don't know if he's scheduled anything after Seattle.

[milkman]

I'm not adding Hartwell into the mix, he's at the top of his FA class, like Rolle is. I'm saying get Rolle and a 2nd tier FA to replace Mitchell.

That's where we disagree.
I say add Hartwell, and a second tier CB like Andre Dyson, and your overal defensive play will improve far more than adding Rolle and a 2nd tier type at LB.

[Pants]

That's where we disagree.
I say add Hartwell, and a second tier CB like Andre Dyson, and your overal defensive play will improve far more than adding Rolle and a 2nd tier type at LB.

I'm just tired of seeing us getting burned on the deep routes.

[TheNextStep]

Just my opinion, but Rolle is a very good zone corner. I wouldn't trust him in man coverage too often, though, and certainly not without safety help.

[bringbackmarty]

From watching Rolle play, he is as good as it gets in one on one coverage. He runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, and is decently physical for a CB. He isn't that great in run support. He's adequate at best. However, he is a ball hawk, and has made a ton of big plays in the past.

When healthy, Samari Rolle is an extremely good CB. He is a guy that you could lock up on Randy Moss outside, and feel good about it. He has decent size at 6'0, 180.

He isn't my first choice, but his experience in Gun's scheme could be very, very helpful!!
wicked good points brah!
go wit watcha know!

[Chiefnj]

So, you have to outplay Ray Lewis to be considered "outstanding"? That's one short list...

Nice attempt to twist words. I'm not the one who called him outstanding, nor am I the one who said he outplayed Lewis.

[Shag]

Nice attempt to twist words. I'm not the one who called him outstanding, nor am I the one who said he outplayed Lewis.

My bad - I misread the exchange. Sorry about that...

[whoman69]

Rolle has the talent to be a top flight CB. No doubt about it. Has he produced they way you would expect of someone his talent? Not in my eyes. The injuries he has had pretty much every year, except 2 seasons that he has been in the league have stunted his production that would elevate him to be considered in my eyes a top CB. Of course though, my eyes aren't too good anymore.

He is however a tad small. Pretty close to the stature of Marvin Minnis if that gives you any clue.

I agree with you on Smoot though. I would rather take a chance on him than Rolle at this point. But, I think in the end the FA's they will sign will be Rolle and Bell.
Where are you getting this on injuries? He has played at least 12 games every year of his career. He played in at least 14 games in all but two seasons.

[TheNextStep]

Because in 7 years in the league, he's only played all 16 regular season games twice? Because he's missed 7 games in the last two seasons?

[Abba-Dabba]

Where are you getting this on injuries? He has played at least 12 games every year of his career. He played in at least 14 games in all but two seasons.

This is the last four years with Samari Rolle and the injury report.

12/29/2004 Out Knee
12/22/2004 Out Knee
12/15/2004 Out Knee
12/08/2004 Out Knee
12/01/2004 Questionable Knee
11/24/2004 Questionable Knee
11/18/2004 Questionable Knee
10/13/2004 Questionable Ribs
01/07/2004 Questionable Concussion
12/10/2003 Questionable Leg
11/26/2003 Questionable Concussion
11/05/2003 Questionable Elbow
10/22/2003 Out Elbow
10/15/2003 Out Elbow
10/08/2003 Out Elbow
10/05/2003 Day-to-day Elbow
01/08/2003 Questionable Ribs
12/18/2002 Questionable Thigh
12/04/2002 Questionable Shoulder
12/01/2002 Day-to-day Stinger
11/06/2002 Questionable Shoulder
10/02/2002 Questionable Hamstring
09/29/2002 Day-to-day Hamstring
01/02/2002 Questionable Concussion/foot
12/26/2001 Questionable Foot
12/19/2001 Questionable Foot
12/12/2001 Questionable Foot
10/24/2001 Questionable Neck
10/17/2001 Out Neck
10/10/2001 Out Neck
10/07/2001 Day-to-day Neck

If they want to pay an astronomical amount in a signing bonus on a guy that is clearly a durability risk, by all means that is what they will get with Rolle. I just think they are setting themselves up for a letdown when they look back after the season is over and try to see if his production and playing time meets the payout.

Don't forget as well the Eric Warfield will face penalty from the league for his felony DUI conviction. Now are you really excited about entering the season already down a CB, with the prospect of your #1 CB being a durability risk? What happens if Rolle were to go down for a few weeks after week 2? You really excited about seeing Bartee, Battle and McCleon playing CB? Now, don't get me wrong. I think Rolle is a very talented CB. But, I'm not going to pump him up more than what he has ever been. Which is a talented CB that has a history of injury problems.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't think he's as good as Bailey or Surtain, but he's top 10.

[the Talking Can]

Give me Hartwell and a plan B CB, then draft a CB in the 1st round which is loaded with CB talent.

The longer this takes the more I feel like the Chiefs are about to make a huge and expensive mistake.


p.s.

I think Smoot is a far better CB, and younger, and healthier and I'd much rather overpay for him, if not Hartwell.


ok...I'll stand by this..I'll pretend that CP's plan all along was to waste time low balling Rolle before putting his (MY) BRILLIANT PLAN into action:

SIGN HARTWELL

SIGN SMOOT


GO GET THE PLAYERS WE NEED YOU CHEAP ****ING LOSER IDIOT DONKEY RAPING ASSHOLES.

[the Talking Can]

I'm trying hard to pretend I'm happy.