Gretz..The WILD FreeAgency RIDE [Archive]

Kerberos

03-09-2005, 09:51 AM

Is it ME or is he politely telling us to STFU ????

GRETZ: The Wild Free Agency Ride
Mar 09, 2005, 4:40:37 AM by Bob Gretz

By simply following the word fan back to its mother – the word fanatic – it’s easy to understand how some who root for the red and gold can lose all perspective.

Here’s an example. Tuesday morning, I’m driving to work. I pop on the local all-sports yakkers and the theme is the same: hosts and callers are jumping all over the Chiefs, calling them idiots, calling them cheap, calling them liars … calling the organization, general manager, owner and coach every name in the book.

And, what was the reason for this vitriol? Six days after the start of the free agency period in the NFL, the Chiefs had not signed a single player. Visits from five free agents had not produced a signature on a contract. The sky was falling at Arrowhead Stadium.

Jump ahead to Tuesday afternoon. I’m driving home from work. Against my better judgment, I again hit the AM side of the radio and the yakkers, only the theme and tone of the conversation is entirely different. I hear hosts and callers praising the Chiefs. They aren’t so dumb anymore. While it was cloudy and chilly outside, suddenly it was sunny and a perfect 72 degrees at Arrowhead.

So, what was the reason for this change in attitude? The Chiefs had announced the signing of unrestricted free agent LB Kendrell Bell.

Now, read that very carefully. It said Kendrell Bell, not Bobby Bell. The Chiefs added an inside linebacker to their roster who played in three games last season and contributed nine tackles.

And, all was right with the world?

Folks, if you wear red and gold underwear, I beseech you to stop for a minute and try to gain some perspective on your favorite football team. Please, find a way to stay off the roller coaster. March is not the time for going up and down; save that for the fall and winter, when the games count.

You see, the Chiefs record is still 0-0, same as the Patriots, Chargers, Steelers and Eagles. There are all sorts of pundits who will spout off about winning the off-season. Folks, additions and deletions to the roster are important, but not a single game is won in March. Winning the game of free agency itself is an oxymoron.

Don’t get me wrong: I have nothing negative to say about the signing of Bell in particular. Yes, he had some groin injury problems last season that started in mini-camp, came back in training camp and caused him to play just three of Pittsburgh’s 18 games last season. He missed four games in 2002 with a sprained ankle.

When healthy, Bell can be an impact linebacker. He showed that as a rookie in 2001 and again in 2003. He’s a north-south player with speed, something Gunther Cunningham desperately needs from his linebackers. He will come off the snap of the ball and stick his head into an offensive lineman without thinking twice. He can play inside or outside.

Even while barely playing last year, Bell is now the best linebacker on the Chiefs roster and only the second player on their defense who has ever seen the playing field in Hawaii for the Pro Bowl (he went after his rookie season.) Signing Bell is a positive step.

But remember this: free agency is about applying band-aids. It covers up previous personnel mistakes made through the draft or free agency. To ignore the wreckage that litters the highway of NFL free agency is to lose all perspective. While it’s true that no team correctly evaluates every draft choice or player it signs, relying on free agency is an even greater gamble, because there are more dollars involved. A team doesn’t just pay for a mistake in just one season; no the cap sting can last for several seasons.

Yet, the lure of the free agent fix is hard to shake. Even a team like Baltimore, that’s done an outstanding job over the years in drafting players has broken its profile this year and spent big money on unrestricted free agents WR Derrick Mason and CB Samari Rolle. Does that get them any closer to a championship? Maybe, maybe not.

Signing Kendrell Bell is but a single action in what will be months of movement on the Chiefs roster. It is not a reason to hold a party, just as there should not be a wake thrown because the Chiefs haven’t signed a cornerback yet.

Yes, it’s fun to talk about this stuff. It makes the time before the season opener go faster. Just stay off the roller coaster and keep your perspective. Or, at least wait to see who is on the big bird to Wisconsin in July.

MGRS13

03-09-2005, 09:55 AM

More like kiddy ride...

eazyb81

03-09-2005, 09:59 AM

God, just shut up Gretz.... STFU

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 10:01 AM

You see, the Chiefs record is still 0-0, same as the Patriots, Chargers, Steelers and Eagles. There are all sorts of pundits who will spout off about winning the off-season. Folks, additions and deletions to the roster are important, but not a single game is won in March. Winning the game of free agency itself is an oxymoron.

Seasons ARE won/lost in the offseason. That's when you build your roster & coaching staff. That's when you prepare your playbooks and strategies.

I bet the f*ckheads in the FO and on DV's coaching staff hold the same philosophy as Gretz. Perhaps I should send them a copy of <I>The Art of War</i>? :hmmm:

Big Chief Homer

03-09-2005, 10:04 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen,let me introduce Gretz the puppet.

Who in the F.O. has his hand up his ass this time.

Cormac

03-09-2005, 10:09 AM

You see, the Chiefs record is still 0-0, same as the Patriots, Chargers, Steelers and Eagles.

Oh really? Wow, I didn't even ****ing realise.

Does this crap cliche ever get old?

Gimme a break.

cookster50

03-09-2005, 10:12 AM

I used to like Gretz when he was part of the broadcast. Now, I can't stand the guy.

Bootlegged

03-09-2005, 10:14 AM

the BLob speaks. He's such an ass...it has to suck to be him.

kc rush

03-09-2005, 10:14 AM

So what the Chiefs are saying is that we are idiots for getting mad at the team when they don't make the right moves, and for cheering when they do something positive.

Thats the way to appreciate your fan base.

Gaz

03-09-2005, 10:25 AM

I can find nothing objectionable or untrue in that article.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes some folks don’t sprain a knee.

Bootlegged

03-09-2005, 10:28 AM

I can find nothing objectionable or untrue in that article.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes some folks don’t sprain a knee.

Gaz = Gretz? :hmmm:

XOXO~
Lattimer
thinks Gaz thinks he's classless and deranged

milkman

03-09-2005, 10:30 AM

While nothing is untrue, it certainly is a waste of time, paper and ink.

He doesn't inform, entertain, or inspire.

They should leave most of the space blank, with only the disclaimer "There's nothing to see here, move on."

mikey23545

03-09-2005, 10:30 AM

I think what he is saying is that just because the Chiefs didn't sign every starter off the New England Patriot's defense the first day free agency began is no reason to run around screaming like prepubescent little girls seeing their first horror film....

ROYC75

03-09-2005, 10:35 AM

I can find nothing objectionable or untrue in that article.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes some folks don’t sprain a knee.

I have to agree on this one....... I thought the article was dead on.

Fans do panic,they get mad, irritible and pissed off about the Chiefs.

It's a damn business, problem is it's a business that affect the lives of many fans.

That's all ......... :)

Gaz

03-09-2005, 10:36 AM

SideWinder-

It is an Op Ed piece.

If the only things worth reading are hard facts, we need to shut down the Planet right now.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would have a hard time getting through the working day.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 10:39 AM

He doesn't inform, entertain, or inspire.

He says while posting on said 'nothing'...

SW's inspired comments are entertaining to me. So i guess Gretz, got 2 of 3.

BigChiefFan

03-09-2005, 10:40 AM

Nobody thinks all is right in the world, just that Bell is a good START. In no way do I think it's all we should do in FA and who's throwing a pary, Gretzy?. We're damned it we do or damned it we don't with the FO. **** off, Gretz, you excuse making, prick.

milkman

03-09-2005, 10:40 AM

SideWinder-

It is an Op Ed piece.

If the only things worth reading are hard facts, we need to shut down the Planet right now.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would have a hard time getting through the working day.

I get that.
But good clumnists entertain.
Gretz just bores.

There's better writers in small town newspapers.

milkman

03-09-2005, 10:41 AM

He says while posting on said 'nothing'...

SW's inspired comments are entertaining to me. So i guess Gretz, got 2 of 3.

I'm not paid to write, that's the difference.

jAZ

03-09-2005, 10:42 AM

I can find nothing objectionable or untrue in that article.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes some folks don’t sprain a knee.

yup.

Phobia

03-09-2005, 10:44 AM

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 10:49 AM

I'd remind Gretz of a couple of things, but I'm sure that he'll think I'm dillusional as a "internet yakker".

1. More than 1 current Chiefs Defender has been on the field in Hawaii. Gary Stills went to the probowl 2 years ago as a ST, but played some DE, and Woods, whose play has declined greatly since. I didn't see fans throwing any parties because of Bell's signing....I saw fans who know he's an upgrade over the turds at LB we've been watching the past 2 years.

2. Standing pat just isn't going to get it done. If this is indeed the "last harrah" it means that after this year, fans are preparing for a rebuilding period....new GM, New Coach, retiring offensive Linemen, RB... We're not stupid.

It also is in the same time period, where the Chargers are a playoff team, and in the same few days, under the same Salary Cap restrictions, OAKLAND, who was VERY active on Defensive FAs last year, has already re-signed Porter, added Randy Moss, Lamont Jordan, and supposedly making a play for Law.

I'd ignore that, but I've already seen the hated Raiduhs in more than 1 superbowl in my lifetime. Haven't had the same oportunity in my near 32 years as a chiefs fan. Pardon me for gettign impatient, and thinking another decade is unacceptable.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 10:50 AM

I'm not paid to write, that's the difference.

I see no difference...you said he didnt entertain or inspire, yet you bothered to respond which I found ironic...first inspiration (you responded) then entertainment (my finding inronic humor).

Were you referring to only people who are paid to write have to be entertained or inspired by his columns, that doesnt make any sense.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 10:53 AM

I'm not a paid author, yet find myself pretty damn entertaining.

Piss off.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 10:53 AM

Yeah - it is Op Ed. I presume it appeared on kcchiefs.com....

Them bitching about fanatical fans would be like me writing an article and attaching it to my business card:

"I'm getting really sick of all the women who aren't satisfied with their Kitchens. The old kitchen functioned fine, but these women feel the need to spend $50k to update their kitchen. Couldn't they do something more productive with $50k?

it's allways interesting how we play with analogies...

My perspective is this:

"The kitchen is in need of all new appliances and the wife is throwing a tantrum wanting all 4 new appliances--fridge, range, dishwasher and microwave, but they have to be top of the line. Threatening divorce if all 4 arent purchased. We go and get a new refrigerator and all is well with the kitchen"

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 10:55 AM

I'm not a paid author, yet find myself pretty damn entertaining.

Well, you should be...that KB of Doom thread was awesome.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 10:55 AM

My perspective is this:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

:D

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 10:57 AM

:D

Heh...I thought it was good anyway.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 10:58 AM

Titus........

If my wife has a garage sale Electric Oven....the heat isn't consistant and it causes everything to Burn, the Sink Leaks, The yard sale Dishwasher that used to work in Washington doesn't take food off and the Freezer has made the meat thaw for the past few years, and she knows I'm sitting on enough cash to make a difference in her task, she just might have a good reason to complain(though the coach might slap her lips off)....

None of it worked last year, but I put some duct tape on the leaky sink........... I guess I can't blame her for wanting some new equipment..........Since the family hates burned food, dirty dishes and melted popcicles......................and the Lady accross the Street Has the Whirlpool truck backed up to her door, and got a new Fridge and stove last year. Hell, she even placed at the County fair in the Pie bake last year.

Mr. Laz

03-09-2005, 11:01 AM

Yeah - it is Op Ed. I presume it appeared on kcchiefs.com....

Them bitching about fanatical fans would be like me writing an article and attaching it to my business card:

"I'm getting really sick of all the women who aren't satisfied with their Kitchens. The old kitchen functioned fine, but these women feel the need to spend $50k to update their kitchen. Couldn't they do something more productive with $50k?
nothing like taking a big,fat juicy dump on your consumer base, heh?!

that fact that Gaz/Kctits and co. like the article just reinforces the fact that is bullchit.

milkman

03-09-2005, 11:01 AM

I see no difference...you said he didnt entertain or inspire, yet you bothered to respond which I found ironic...first inspiration (you responded) then entertainment (my finding inronic humor).

Were you referring to only people who are paid to write have to be entertained or inspired by his columns, that doesnt make any sense.

You were entertained by my response, which was inspired by Gaz's post.

I suppose you could say that they were inspired by Gretz, but in the end, it doesn't matter, you'll spin it however you want to.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 11:04 AM

You were entertained by my response, which was inspired by Gaz's post.

I suppose you could say that they were inspired by Gretz, but in the end, it doesn't matter, you'll spin it however you want to.

I didnt see Gaz's post until after I posted, sorry. There's no reason to 'spin' this. Im not the one afraid to admit that Gretz's columns prompted me to respond. It's the other side of the coin to Whitlock...you know how when people are prompted to respond to a Whitlock column and someone comes in and says, 'If he doesnt matter or is stupid, why bother to respond?'--it's the same thing. They're not 'spinning'...they're pointing out the obvious.

Lord, people are touchy today.

BigChiefFan

03-09-2005, 11:05 AM

Yeah - it is Op Ed. I presume it appeared on kcchiefs.com....

Them bitching about fanatical fans would be like me writing an article and attaching it to my business card:

"I'm getting really sick of all the women who aren't satisfied with their Kitchens. The old kitchen functioned fine, but these women feel the need to spend $50k to update their kitchen. Couldn't they do something more productive with $50k?
Great post and it puts it ito perspective with the way the PR bites the hand that feeds them. It's horseshit to think some can even side with those windbags.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 11:08 AM

Great post and it puts it ito perspective with the way the PR bites the hand that feeds them. It's horseshit to think some can even side with those windbags.

What's worse are the dumbasses who keep forking out thousands a year for season tickets. THOSE are the people who are enabling f*ckface and the crybaby. I, for one, am boycotting Arrowhead and all Chiefs merchandise. This will be year #2... not a single penny spent. :thumb:

milkman

03-09-2005, 11:09 AM

I didnt see Gaz's post until after I posted, sorry. There's no reason to 'spin' this. Im not the one afraid to admit that Gretz's columns prompted me to respond. It's the other side of the coin to Whitlock...you know how when people are prompted to respond to a Whitlock column and someone comes in and says, 'If he doesnt matter or is stupid, why bother to respond?'--it's the same thing. They're not 'spinning'...they're pointing out the obvious.

Lord, people are touchy today.

That's cause we're fanatics, and we need to gain perspective!

OK, this response was inspired by the article, and you! :p

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 11:10 AM

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 11:10 AM

That's cause we're fanatics, and we need to gain perspective!

OK, this response was inspired by the article, and you! :p

LOL...

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks, HC...Im not allowed to say that anymore.

It is the best way to affect change: hit them in their pocketbook. Bitching & moaning can accomplish only so much - and if they pay no attention, it accomplishes nothing.

I'm of the opinion that they worry constantly about the fanbase morale - why else would they spend so much time & energy bashing the media, and allow a pseudonym-sporting mouthpiece on their OFFICIAL SITE bash FANS? Problem is, people keep giving them money... keep enabling their piss-poor work habits and shitty, arrogant, condescending attitudes. Until the fan base finally says "enough is enough", nothing is going to change.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 11:22 AM

It is the best way to affect change: hit them in their pocketbook. Bitching & moaning can accomplish only so much - and if they pay no attention, it accomplishes nothing.

I'm of the opinion that they worry constantly about the fanbase morale - why else would they spend so much time & energy bashing the media, and allow a pseudonym-sporting mouthpiece on their OFFICIAL SITE bash FANS? Problem is, people keep giving them money... keep enabling their piss-poor work habits and shitty, arrogant, condescending attitudes. Until the fan base finally says "enough is enough", nothing is going to change.

Yep. So let me throw the unthinkable out there...what if the unthinkable happens and KC manages to win a playoff game or get to the AFC championship or God forbid, the SB...does CP get re-extended? Do we really want that?

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 11:25 AM

milkman

03-09-2005, 11:27 AM

BigRedChief

03-09-2005, 11:27 AM

What's worse are the dumbasses who keep forking out thousands a year for season tickets. THOSE are the people who are enabling f*ckface and the crybaby. I, for one, am boycotting Arrowhead and all Chiefs merchandise. This will be year #2... not a single penny spent. :thumb:

As an enabler of the arrogance coming out of the Arrowhead front office I plead guilty. But I don't think not buying a Chiefs jersey or renewing season tickets will effect change except if its thousands of ticket holders not renewing. That wont happen any time soon.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 11:28 AM

I want Carl Gone even if the Chiefs win the Superbowl this year.

Its just time for a regime change after this year. My opinion was sealed, when the existing Secondary Coaches were retained.

CP could sign Law and Bill Braskey to play Corner this year, and the Chiefs Secondary Coaches would probably turn them into Alfalfa and Spanky Bartee in 1 offseason.

Exactly. DV - gone. CP - gone. I don't care if they win the SB this year - they're still losers: to have <i>wasted</i> the last two years' opportunities by stubbornly refusing to fix the most putrid defense in the division... unacceptable. I will forever despise them both.

ROYC75

03-09-2005, 11:35 AM

WOW :eek:

If KC wins a SB, this BB will so damn happy that if CP and DV wants to play another year, you will welcome them back.

If they fail for a repeat, then the shit will hit the fan again.

Gaz

03-09-2005, 11:35 AM

Yep. So let me throw the unthinkable out there...what if the unthinkable happens and KC manages to win a playoff game or get to the AFC championship or God forbid, the SB...does CP get re-extended? Do we really want that?

Wouldn’t that be a kick?

The Chiefs win the Super Bowl and fans are screaming for Peterson to resign?

Hey, maybe the players should tank the season in order to get rid of Peterson?

xoxo~
Gaz
Has no doubt it would happen.

shakesthecat

03-09-2005, 11:36 AM

I want Carl Gone even if the Chiefs win the Superbowl this year.

This line of thinking blows my mind.

So now, even winning the SB isn't enough, huh?

Call me crazy, but I thought winning the SB was the goal.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 11:37 AM

What's so pathetic about this article is, as I was flipping between 610 and 810, most of the callers were luke warm at best on Bell. They brought up injuries, the fact that KC needs about 10 other defensive players, and that Carl and Co. are hopefully not finished.

Once again, the folks at One Arrowhead Drive not only lack any clue of what the fans are about, they insult the fans at the same time.

The only thing that keeps me a fan is that fact that, some day, all those fuqtards will be gone.

Some day ...

MM
~~:grovel:

CHIEF4EVER

03-09-2005, 11:37 AM

Yep. So let me throw the unthinkable out there...what if the unthinkable happens and KC manages to win a playoff game or get to the AFC championship or God forbid, the SB...does CP get re-extended? Do we really want that?

If CP manages to salvage the remainder of this offseason and accomplish one of the goals mentioned in your post, I will go back to supporting CP as I normally do (prior to this offseason). I am just PO'd that he is CURRENTLY fugging the dog.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 11:38 AM

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 11:43 AM

Shakes

that line of thinking comes from watching the Cincinati Bengals in a superbowl and Arizona with Jake Plummer winning a playoff game since KC. That line of thinking has comes from a fan like you who watched 16 years of a 5 year plan.

Is there a single GM in the league with more years, no superbowls and more time between playoff wins?

I've never been an automatic Carl Basher, and not one of his girlfriends either, but I'm tired. I respect Dick Vermiel, but I'm beyond tired of watching him NOT make the changes that are obvious to our wives.

I hate Oakland. Now, I hate them with Randy Moss, a running game, and 2 other big, fast WRs who are better than ANY of KC's.

Its just time for Carl to go with Dick into the sunset. If they win the Superbowl, I'll put on a Rhinestone jacket, some boots and a new white cowboy hat and lead the singing of "happy trails". If the Chiefs don't win the AFCW and at least 1 playoff game. I'll kick Carl in the ass on the way out before slamming the door.

After this year....Its time for a change. roaf and Shields are about done, Holmes, Kenninson, Richardson and Green don't have that much left in the tank. I don't want Carl Rebuilding this team.

ROYC75

03-09-2005, 11:53 AM

nmt1

03-09-2005, 11:58 AM

Someone care to explain what's so offensive about this column?

Gaz

03-09-2005, 11:59 AM

Someone care to explain what's so offensive about this column?

Gretz wrote it.

xoxo~
Gaz
Summing it up.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:00 PM

Gretz wrote it.

xoxo~
Gaz
Summing it up.

I have a different theory but that makes sense.

shakesthecat

03-09-2005, 12:02 PM

IA,
I don't disagree with any of that.
And for the record, I wanted Carl gone back when Marty left.
He has been given more than enough time, and failed. No one disputes that.

But for me, if KC were to actually win the SB this year, it would salve over a lot of wounds.

That said, anything short of a SB, than I'll hold the door open for ya.

KCTitus

03-09-2005, 12:03 PM

Wouldn’t that be a kick?

The Chiefs win the Super Bowl and fans are screaming for Peterson to resign?

Hey, maybe the players should tank the season in order to get rid of Peterson?

xoxo~
Gaz
Has no doubt it would happen.

Actually, I think winning the SB would make it easier for CP to move on. I think a playoff win or two could mean a re-up.

At this point, Im of the opinion that this is his and DV's last year, regardless of this BB or Whitlock.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 12:04 PM

"go on, get your ass outta here" [/thump from pants kick]

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 12:09 PM

RoyC.

I don't really know who..........hell...maybe Denny Thumb.

I do know this...........The Chiefs would have AT LEAST as many Superbowl appearances in my lifetime if I were GM.

Its kind of like the Football players at NWMSU my soph year when they were like 0-11, being assholes at a party.....and when they were "getting tough" my pointing out that I didn't understand why they felt they had a free ticket to be assholes, because the Adult Downs Syndrome Flag Football team I was coaching at the time could win as many games as they had.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:11 PM

Someone care to explain what's so offensive about this column?This:Jump ahead to Tuesday afternoon. I’m driving home from work. Against my better judgment, I again hit the AM side of the radio and the yakkers, only the theme and tone of the conversation is entirely different. I hear hosts and callers praising the Chiefs. They aren’t so dumb anymore. While it was cloudy and chilly outside, suddenly it was sunny and a perfect 72 degrees at Arrowhead.It's a lie -- people weren't praising the Chiefs the way in which he says they were. Sure, it was nice getting Bell, but 90% of the callers I heard were saying that the Chiefs still have a long way to go, 8% were still calling for Carl's head, and the last 2% wanted to talk college basketball.

In 2 hours of listening, I heard NO ONE pile on any praise for the Chiefs.

When combined with his characterization of what folks were saying before Tuesday (which was actually pretty much true), it forms yet another condescending, the-fans-know-nothing diatribe from a Chiefs' talking head.

Basically, it's about a general lack of respect for the fans of Kansas City.

MM
~~:shrug:

tk13

03-09-2005, 12:14 PM

Well I think there's some truth to the theory there, some people just can't handle the "stress" of free agency and go nuts (see the eighty billion "we haven't signed anybody yet" threads), but like Phobia said, that's gonna happen anyway and this article really doesn't do much good except make Gretz look condescending to most people.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:17 PM

This:

It's a lie -- people weren't praising the Chiefs the way in which he says they were. Sure, it was nice getting Bell, but 90% of the callers I heard were saying that the Chiefs still have a long way to go.

When combined with his characterization of what folks were saying before Tuesday (which was actually pretty much true), it forms yet another condescending, the-fans-know-nothing diatribe from a Chiefs' talking head.

Basically, it's about a general lack of respect for the fans of Kansas City.

MM
~~:shrug:

I don't listen to KC sports radio stations so I'll have to take your word on the mischaracterization. I do know the pressure release from this board when the signing was announced was almost audible. Regardless, I have a hard time making the connection between what Gretz wrote and a general condescension towards Chiefs fans.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:18 PM

...this article really doesn't do much good except make Gretz look condescending to most people.

Why? What's so condescending about it?

BigRedChief

03-09-2005, 12:18 PM

Gretz's arrogance comes from King Carl. That arrogance is in everything that they do. From ticket sales, to their web site. I just don't understand the underlying contempt for the fans of their product.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:23 PM

Regardless, I have a hard time making the connection between what Gretz wrote and a general condescension towards Chiefs fans.

Well, then nothing I post will make you think otherwise.

MM
~~:shrug:

tk13

03-09-2005, 12:26 PM

Why? What's so condescending about it?
I didn't say it was condescending to me. I could care less really. I'll think what I want to think. You agree with the article, you aren't going to find it condescending. People that don't agree with it and get excitable during free agency are going to consider this as their football team telling them how they should think.

CHIEF4EVER

03-09-2005, 12:31 PM

I'll think what I want to think. You agree with the article, you aren't going to find it condescending. People that don't agree with it and get excitable during free agency are going to consider this as their football team telling them how they should think.

We have a winner. :thumb:

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:34 PM

I didn't say it was condescending to me. I could care less really. I'll think what I want to think. You agree with the article, you aren't going to find it condescending. People that don't agree with it and get excitable during free agency are going to consider this as their football team telling them how they should think.

Pretty much ...

We're idiots for getting pissed when the FO does nothing.
We're idiots for being happy they signed an upgrade at MLB.
We're idiots for wearing Chiesf Underoos.

Etc. etc. etc.

MM
~~:)

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:36 PM

Well, then nothing I post will make you think otherwise.

MM
~~:shrug:

That's a cop out. I'm not asking you because I want to be convinced. I'm genuinely curious.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:40 PM

That's a cop out. I'm not asking you because I want to be convinced. I'm genuinely curious.

Then see my response to tk13.

MM
~~:)

Gaz

03-09-2005, 12:42 PM

...You agree with the article, you aren't going to find it condescending. People that don't agree with it and get excitable during free agency are going to consider this as their football team telling them how they should think.

I think it starts before the article is even read. It is by Gretz, who is a spineless shill for the Chiefs organization [who do not care about winning and hate the fans and keep raising parking prices], which automatically makes it bad.

It is then just a matter of deciding how you are insulted.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure what is actually written makes a whole lot of difference.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:42 PM

People that don't agree with it and get excitable during free agency are going to consider this as their football team telling them how they should think.

Why are they going to consider it as such? What in the column tells anyone how to think. I see Gretz asking people to have a little perspective. What's wrong with that?

nmt1

03-09-2005, 12:49 PM

Then see my response to tk13.

MM
~~:)

If you think Gretz is calling you or anyone else an idiot, you've got awful thin skin. He's asking for us fans to have a little perspective. There's nothing wrong with trying to keep things in perspective. IMO, calling Carl a scumbag, Lamar a cheap bastard, and Vermiel delusional and senile without any personal knowledge of them indicates a severe lack of perspective.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:51 PM

I think it starts before the article is even read. It is by Gretz, who is a spineless shill for the Chiefs organization [who do not care about winning and hate the fans and keep raising parking prices], which automatically makes it bad.

It is then just a matter of deciding how you are insulted.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure what is actually written makes a whole lot of difference.

For some, that's true. But I honestly enjoy Gretz's articles most of the time. I found his series on how to build a defense pretty interesting. Not earth shattering, but interesting.

But this one just struck a nerve with me, and I'm not sure why. Heck, I've tried to be one of the ones with perspective around here (with varying degrees of success).

MM
~~:shrug:

Mark M

03-09-2005, 12:58 PM

If you think Gretz is calling you or anyone else an idiot, you've got awful thin skin. He's asking for us fans to have a little perspective. There's nothing wrong with trying to keep things in perspective. IMO, calling Carl a scumbag, Lamar a cheap bastard, and Vermiel delusional and senile without any personal knowledge of them indicates a severe lack of perspective.

I don't disagree ... in fact, I'm usually one of the guys pointing out how wrong that is.

But when combined with other articles (i.e. the Rufus article last year that just came right out and blasted fans and the media), it's as if the organization has little respect for our opinions and that we have no clue.

And, to some extent at least, they're right. They shouldn't just sign whomever the fans want -- then we'd all be whining about why Carl signed Hugh Douglas -- and most of us have no clue of what it takes to sign a player, evaluate a college prospect or manage the salary cap.

But for the organization to totally discount the passion of some fans is not good PR.

What do you think would happen if an article like this or Rufus' was written in Philly, or New York, or DC? Name me one other team who would tell fans to calm down, have perspective, or rip on those who call into--or even listen to--talk radio.

Again, I don't know why this article bugged me so much ...

maybe I need to up my meds.

MM
~~:)

penguinz

03-09-2005, 01:00 PM

We're idiots for wearing Chiesf Underoos.
You have Chiefs Underoos! Where did you get them!

Mark M

03-09-2005, 01:01 PM

You have Chiefs Underoos! Where did you get them!

I actually got them when I was 11 ...

and they still fit.

MM
~~;)

tk13

03-09-2005, 01:03 PM

Why are they going to consider it as such? What in the column tells anyone how to think. I see Gretz asking people to have a little perspective. What's wrong with that?
Because some people think the way to build a team is through free agency. Personally I think many know I do not believe that at all, I think the draft is more important than free agency. But....Those people who believe free agency is the true key see that so far we've not been very active and think we've yet to take the proper steps to put a good team on the field. They don't want to be lectured about how what they think is wrong. I think your 2nd and 3rd sentences are contradictory, you say no one is being told how to think, then saying Gretz is telling people how to think, basically.

penguinz

03-09-2005, 01:04 PM

I actually got them when I was 11 ...

and they still fit.

MM
~~;)So they are a year old?

jarjar

03-09-2005, 01:07 PM

This article is the voice of reason, and pretty accurate. People are overreacting a bit... however, the fan base has a good excuse for hysteria after the offseason we had 1 year ago.

Mark M

03-09-2005, 01:07 PM

So they are a year old?

Sorry ... I forgot you're new here.

No. I am actually in my 30's, but I'm a bit svelte. My weight (or lack thereof) is a running joke around here.

MM
~~:)

whoman69

03-09-2005, 01:15 PM

Gretz is sounding more and more like Rufus every day. He knows where his paycheck gets signed. There is no roller coaster going on. I'm sure that those who were screaming before we signed Bell are still screaming because the job is not done yet. The most important piece of the puzzle has got to be a CB. Those praising the Chiefs for signing Bell were probably also saying, "But we still need to..." Its a totally idiotic thing to say that games aren't won in March. You prepare your team in the off season just like baseball does in December.
I will drop the grade on CP when the signing period is over. But realize this. We have signed one player and more than half of all the starters in FA are off the market now. All the players left have big warts on them, and we just have to hope that whatever they have is curable.
Gretz, you can stop sucking Carl's lollipop when the job is done. Until then, keep an open mind.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 01:16 PM

But when combined with other articles (i.e. the Rufus article last year that just came right out and blasted fans and the media), it's as if the organization has little respect for our opinions and that we have no clue.

I think Rufus' article about Sports Talk Radio was a little over the top but I don't think he was far off. IMO, one can call into a radio show and talk about the team they like without making accusations about the character of the teams personnel. When one talks like that, they immediately make themselves look stupid and cause their comments to be discounted. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about the team you follow. There is something wrong with not keeping it in perspective.

What do you think would happen if an article like this or Rufus' was written in Philly, or New York, or DC? Name me one other team who would tell fans to calm down, have perspective, or rip on those who call into--or even listen to--talk radio.

I'm not sure what would happen. It would be interesting to see if the fans of those teams have the same tendency to overreact as some of the fans of the Chiefs do.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 01:22 PM

Because some people think the way to build a team is through free agency. Personally I think many know I do not believe that at all, I think the draft is more important than free agency. But....Those people who believe free agency is the true key see that so far we've not been very active and think we've yet to take the proper steps to put a good team on the field. They don't want to be lectured about how what they think is wrong. I think your 2nd and 3rd sentences are contradictory, you say no one is being told how to think, then saying Gretz is telling people how to think, basically.

So those people who believe free agency is the key are upset that the evidence points to a conclusion that is contrary to what they believe? Why does that give them permission to make accusations about the sanity and character of the Chiefs front office and staff?
It's seems pretty simple to me. Gretz is saying we all need to chill a little.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 01:29 PM

Sorry ... I forgot you're new here.

No. I am actually in my 30's, but I'm a bit svelte. My weight (or lack thereof) is a running joke around here.

MM
~~:)

YO!

Tell him my joke about the day you worked on Sesame Street as the Letter i, and #1.

ROYC75

03-09-2005, 01:32 PM

YO!

Tell him my joke about the day you worked on Sesame Street as the Letter i, and #1.

ROFL ROFL

Oh man.........

:clap:

tk13

03-09-2005, 01:39 PM

So those people who believe free agency is the key are upset that the evidence points to a conclusion that is contrary to what they believe? Why does that give them permission to make accusations about the sanity and character of the Chiefs front office and staff?
It's seems pretty simple to me. Gretz is saying we all need to chill a little.
I don't know, I'm not nearly as passionate about this argument as you seem to be. I personally don't think everybody who finds this article condescending would be the "sports talk caller" type. I even said in my original post that there are some valid points in this arguement when it comes to the people who are all "We haven't signed anybody yet!!!" every 5 minutes. That's gotten thrown out the window somehow though.

I don't think I really need to "chill" either, I'm just fine. I expect we'll find a free agent corner somewhere, and if we don't, that's when I'll be unhappy. This whole Samari Rolle deal has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and I don't think that's completely unjustified. Either way, I'm currently not that upset, we'll see what happens.

I do have to add at this point that I think it's amazing though that in the same 24 hours I've been verbally assaulted by lazarus for being Carl's lackey and been criticized by nmt1 for being too critical of the organization. That has to be a record.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 01:44 PM

I do have to add at this point that I think it's amazing though that in the same 24 hours I've been verbally assaulted by lazarus for being Carl's lackey and been criticized by nmt1 for being too critical of the organization. That has to be a record.

Heh, that's like having Rush Limbaugh call you a commie and Howard Dean call you a nazi :D

beer bacon

03-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Because some people think the way to build a team is through free agency. Personally I think many know I do not believe that at all, I think the draft is more important than free agency. But....Those people who believe free agency is the true key see that so far we've not been very active and think we've yet to take the proper steps to put a good team on the field. They don't want to be lectured about how what they think is wrong. I think your 2nd and 3rd sentences are contradictory, you say no one is being told how to think, then saying Gretz is telling people how to think, basically.

People don't see free agency as the best possible way to build our team. They would rather build our own guys through the draft. We do not have time to do that. More so, we have had time to do that, but have been unsuccessful at doing so.

We are about out of time with our offense. We have no choice but to build through free agency because we do not have time to spend years developing talent through the draft, that is if Carl&Friends even draft the right players, since our O will be on a serious decline in one or two years.

If we want to build through the draft we need to go give the Pats GM 5 mil a year to come here and work his wonders.

tk13

03-09-2005, 02:00 PM

People don't see free agency as the best possible way to build our team. They would rather build our own guys through the draft. We do not have time to do that. More so, we have had time to do that, but have been uncsuccessful at doing so.

We are about out of time with our offense. We have no choice but to build through free agency because we do not have time to spend years developing talent through the draft, that is if Carl&Friends even draft the right players, since our O will be on a serious decline in one or two years.

If we want to build through the draft we need to go give the Pats GM 5 mil a year to come here and work his wonders.

I think there are people who think free agency is the best way to build a team, it's kind of a fantasy football mentality but I think it's there. Overally, I don't disagree with your philosophy one bit. I think free agency is used best when you've done what the Eagles did or what the Ravens are doing, build a solid team through the draft and make a couple moves to put you over the top. Building an entire side of the ball that way is risky because if they don't mesh or somebody gets hurt or any number of things goes wrong you've tied up a bunch of money in a failure. At this point we just have to throw together what we can and hope it sticks. I don't want to completely waste this offense.

beer bacon

03-09-2005, 02:08 PM

I think there are people who think free agency is the best way to build a team, it's kind of a fantasy football mentality but I think it's there. Overally, I don't disagree with your philosophy one bit. I think free agency is used best when you've done what the Eagles did or what the Ravens are doing, build a solid team through the draft and make a couple moves to put you over the top. Building an entire side of the ball that way is risky because if they don't mesh or somebody gets hurt or any number of things goes wrong you've tied up a bunch of money in a failure. At this point we just have to throw together what we can and hope it sticks. I don't want to completely waste this offense.

I should have started out my post with "Many people don't see..." I over generalize sometimes.

The thing I am probably the most upset at is how poorly we have drafted on defense. We would not be in this situation if we were actually getting guys in the draft that are actually quality defensive starters.

BigRedChief

03-09-2005, 02:13 PM

Its a very common inmpression that teams use FA to fix draft mistakes. In our case its most defintely true.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 02:14 PM

II do have to add at this point that I think it's amazing though that in the same 24 hours I've been verbally assaulted by lazarus for being Carl's lackey and been criticized by nmt1 for being too critical of the organization. That has to be a record.

I'm sorry if you thought I was being critical of you. I did not mean to be critical of you at all. I was asking because I'm curious why some around here are so quick to get offended over things. I guess it's thin skin.
I try only to be critical of those who say things like Lamar is a cheap bastard, Carl is a scumbag, and Dick is senile and delusional. All of that is flat out crap.
It is funny that you've gotten it from both ends, so to speak, today. Though, I'll tell you that Lazarus calls anyone he disagrees with a Carl Apologist. It's easier for him to impugn someone's motives than it is to debate with them in a civil fashion.

nmt1

03-09-2005, 02:17 PM

The thing I am probably the most upset at is how poorly we have drafted on defense.

Now there's something to be disappointed about. We've drafted poorly not only on defense but offense as well. Some of it has been bad luck with injuries and such but it doesn't hide the fact that we've gotten little out of our drafts for quite some time. It's also the reason we're in the situation we're in.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 02:23 PM

I can't believe I am saying this but Gretz's article is very accurate and I don't have a problem with any of it.
FA is a band aid to fix your holes but the way you build a team is through the draft. That is where CP has failed because our drafts for the most part have stunk.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 02:43 PM

I'd agree with that Dirk, however.....this team, as built currently, has about 1-2 years before its rebuilding. Now or Never.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 02:47 PM

I'd agree with that Dirk, however.....this team, as built currently, has about 1-2 years before its rebuilding. Now or Never.

I Totally agree with that but we still need to have a great draft this year regardless who is in charge next year. Who we draft will effect the team for the next 5 years.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 02:50 PM

I Totally agree with that but we still need to have a great draft this year regardless who is in charge next year. Who we draft will effect the team for the next 5 years.

The Chiefs need to get out of this "five years" mentality. With today's NFL (free agency, cap, etc), you build for a THREE YEAR window. The basis remains the same: build a core, a nucleus of players, then complete turnover outside of that group is expected/acceptable every three years. This league is much more fast-paced. F*ckface and crybaby gramps appear to be in 1995 mode.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 02:54 PM

The Chiefs need to get out of this "five years" mentality. With today's NFL (free agency, cap, etc), you build for a THREE YEAR window. The basis remains the same: build a core, a nucleus of players, then complete turnover outside of that group is expected/acceptable every three years. This league is much more fast-paced. F*ckface and crybaby gramps appear to be in 1995 mode.

I would even submit to you that you can turn around a team faster than that maybe 2 yrs ie Bill Belichick who the Pats acquired in 2000 and won the SB in 2001.

But no matter what happens you still have to draft great just like the Patriots did. Half their team is draft choices.

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 02:58 PM

I would even submit to you that you can turn around a team faster than that maybe 2 yrs ie Bill Belichick who the Pats acquired in 2000 and won the SB in 2001.

But no matter what happens you still have to draft great just like the Patriots did. Half their team is draft choices.

Yep. I'd say 2 years is out of the norm.... most of the time the second year is when the team starts to "gel". The third year, patch the holes and make a concentrated run at the SB. NE got lucky in "the next Joe Montana" just fell ass-backwards into the starting lineup.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 03:12 PM

Yep. I'd say 2 years is out of the norm.... most of the time the second year is when the team starts to "gel". The third year, patch the holes and make a concentrated run at the SB. NE got lucky in "the next Joe Montana" just fell ass-backwards into the starting lineup.

I don't know I think 2 years is now the norm with one exception...

Billick - hired in 1999 won SB in 2000
Bellichick - hired in 2000 won SB in 2001
Gruden - hired in 2001 won SB same year
Bellichick - hired in 2000 won SB in 2001
Bellichick - hired in 2000 won SB in 2001

Here are the losers...
Jim Fassel - hired in 97 went to SB in 99 season
Martz - hired in 00 went to SB in 01 season
Bill Callahan - hired in 2001 went to SB same year
John Fox - hired in 2002 went to SB in 2003
Andy Reid - hired in 99 went to SB in 04 season - only exception

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 03:26 PM

Most of those guys have one thing in common: inherritance of a solid team. The only exceptions would be Fassel and Fox.

Fassel's SB run was a big fat fluke.

Every one of those teams had one thing in common: solid defense.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 03:28 PM

The Rams didn't exactly have a good Defense...which I think is the problem with Vermeil not pushing harder NOW...or last year when he SHOULD have.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 03:29 PM

The Rams didn't exactly have a good Defense...which I think is the problem with Vermeil not pushing harder NOW...or last year when he SHOULD have.

IIRC weren't they in the top 10 though?

HC_Chief

03-09-2005, 03:30 PM

The Rams didn't exactly have a good Defense...which I think is the problem with Vermeil not pushing harder NOW...or last year when he SHOULD have.

Yep - they are the exception in the defensive rule.

They used offense to make up for it. And, if not for a dumbass coach who has ZERO concept of clock management, it may have worked.

keg in kc

03-09-2005, 03:35 PM

IIRC weren't they in the top 10 though?#1 in rushing TDs allowed
#2 in INTs
#4 in points allowed
#6 in yards/carry
#7 in total yards allowed
#7 in yards/pass attempt
#9 in passing TDs allowed

They were not a bad defense in any way, shape or form. They were also key in both the NFC championship and Superbowl wins.

dirk digler

03-09-2005, 03:48 PM

#1 in rushing TDs allowed
#2 in INTs
#4 in points allowed
#6 in yards/carry
#7 in total yards allowed
#7 in yards/pass attempt
#9 in passing TDs allowed

They were not a bad defense in any way, shape or form. They were also key in both the NFC championship and Superbowl wins.

Thanks Keg for that great info. :thumb:

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 04:08 PM

interesting. I guess I didn't remember the Rams D being that good. I wouldn't have been suprised to see their numbers alot worse, even if they were a solid D, just because their offense scored so often, so fast....keeping them on the field.

Instead of a 2nd for Surtain.........I wonder what options they have....like a 2nd and 5-6th for Surtain and a 3rd.

keg in kc

03-09-2005, 04:10 PM

Instead of a 2nd for Surtain.........I wonder what options they have....like a 2nd and 5-6th for Surtain and a 3rd.I think we're trying to work 2006 picks into it, too.

And on top of that, we have to deal with Carl's adversarial approach with whoever Surtain's agent is, unless (fingers crossed) it's one of his buddies.

Iowanian

03-09-2005, 04:14 PM

If they can do it for a late round this year, and a 2-3 next year........I'd be happy with that as a fan.

siberian khatru

03-09-2005, 04:15 PM

And on top of that, we have to deal with Carl's adversarial approach with whoever Surtain's agent is, unless (fingers crossed) it's one of his buddies.

Gary Uberstine. Ring any bells? :shrug:

tk13

03-09-2005, 04:20 PM

interesting. I guess I didn't remember the Rams D being that good. I wouldn't have been suprised to see their numbers alot worse, even if they were a solid D, just because their offense scored so often, so fast....keeping them on the field.

DV has never once fielded a team with a really really bad defense... until he got to Kansas City. He's an offensive coach and all, but in his previous stops the defense has been ahead of the offense, it's not like he has a history of not caring about defense. That 99 Rams defense really benefitted from having an explosive offense, no doubt though.... I do believe they had the fewest rushing attempts in the league against, meaning teams had to air it out to keep up with them. That said, they were also able to stand up in that NFC Championship against Tampa when the final score was something like 11-6, they weren't that bad... fell apart the next season though for some odd reason.