How can the Chiefs get Surtain??

[Chiefnj]

According to NFLPA.ORG Surtain's BASE salary this year is 5.85 million. He is scheduled to become a free agent next year. He is one of the top corners in the league and will command a top contract. Using this years contracts as a baseline, I think it is safe to say that Surtain will be looking for at least a 14 mil signing bonus. That would mean that by next year at this time Surtain will have the capacity to earn 20 million for the year (14 bonus in free agency next year plus the near 6 million in base for playing for the Phins in 2005).

Don't the Chiefs have to beat that 20 million figure to have a reasonable shot at signing him? Why would he want to go anywhere if he wasn't in a position to make close to 20 million?

[Chiefnj]

shamless bump.

[BigChiefFan]

Nobody has traded for him yet, so I think his price tag is a little high at this point.

[Bwana]

There are "ways" of working around the cap depending on how the contract is put on the table. (See the Donks) I just think the organization is stuck on the 2nd round pick the fins want to get the deal done.

[cookster50]

That would mean that by next year at this time Surtain will have the capacity to earn 20 million for the year (14 bonus in free agency next year plus the near 6 million in base for playing for the Phins in 2005).

Signing bonus's don't work that way. A signing bonus of 10 mil over 5 years would count 2 mil a year against the cap. It is distributed equally over I believe up to 5 years of a contract.

[KCTitus]

Your 20M figure is totally arbitrary. At this point, Surtain is slated to make 5M in the 2005 season--which is not guranteed. If KC gives him a new contract, to beat what Surtain was slated to make, they would have to offer him more gurantees than 5M, which Im sure, Surtain is asking for.

I dont think he's going to get 20M in guraranteed money in the first year, maybe over the course of 2-3 years.

[Chiefnj]

Your 20M figure is totally arbitrary. At this point, Surtain is slated to make 5M in the 2005 season--which is not guranteed. If KC gives him a new contract, to beat what Surtain was slated to make, they would have to offer him more gurantees than 5M, which Im sure, Surtain is asking for.

I dont think he's going to get 20M in guraranteed money in the first year, maybe over the course of 2-3 years.

I don't think the figure is arbitrary.

If he plays for the Phins this year he earns 6 million.

He's a free agent at the end of the year. This year Lucas got a 13 mil bonus. Surtain is regarded as a better corner than Lucas, so the 14 mil bonus figure I used isn't completely arbitrary. It's based on the fact that every year signing bonuses for top players go up a small % from the previous year. The bonus is guaranteed money. If you take the guaranteed money plus his salary from playing in '05 you have the 20 million. Why wouldn't the Chiefs have to come up with a deal that puts that amount of money in his pocket in the same time period if there was a trade?

[htismaqe]

Signing bonus's don't work that way. A signing bonus of 10 mil over 5 years would count 2 mil a year against the cap. It is distributed equally over I believe up to 5 years of a contract.

He's not talking about cap hits. He's talking about how much cash gets deposited directly into Surtain's pocket.

[ct]

According to NFLPA.ORG Surtain's BASE salary this year is 5.85 million. He is scheduled to become a free agent next year. He is one of the top corners in the league and will command a top contract. Using this years contracts as a baseline, I think it is safe to say that Surtain will be looking for at least a 14 mil signing bonus. That would mean that by next year at this time Surtain will have the capacity to earn 20 million for the year (14 bonus in free agency next year plus the near 6 million in base for playing for the Phins in 2005).

Don't the Chiefs have to beat that 20 million figure to have a reasonable shot at signing him? Why would he want to go anywhere if he wasn't in a position to make close to 20 million?

Where the he!! did you come up with these #s? Rolle just got $11M I believe, Surtain could command as much, perhaps slightly more. But your $20M figure is just flat out assinine dude. He is only set for the $5+M salary this year because it's the final year of the typical backloaded contracts of today's FA world. Happens all the time, when a player reaches that deep into the contract, the salary #s are ridiculous, and the team says reneg or move out.

[ct]

I don't think the figure is arbitrary.

If he plays for the Phins this year he earns 6 million.

He's a free agent at the end of the year. This year Lucas got a 13 mil bonus. Surtain is regarded as a better corner than Lucas, so the 14 mil bonus figure I used isn't completely arbitrary. It's based on the fact that every year signing bonuses for top players go up a small % from the previous year. The bonus is guaranteed money. If you take the guaranteed money plus his salary from playing in '05 you have the 20 million. Why wouldn't the Chiefs have to come up with a deal that puts that amount of money in his pocket in the same time period if there was a trade?

He will NEVER play for that 5M salary this year, anywhere! Miami will cave and trade for what they can get, or be egotistical punks and cut him to immediately SAVE that salary cap #. And by the way, Lucas was BADLY overpaid, doesn't automatically mean Surtain will be as well!

[KCTitus]

I don't think the figure is arbitrary.

If he plays for the Phins this year he earns 6 million.

He's a free agent at the end of the year. This year Lucas got a 13 mil bonus. Surtain is regarded as a better corner than Lucas, so the 14 mil bonus figure I used isn't completely arbitrary. It's based on the fact that every year signing bonuses for top players go up a small % from the previous year. The bonus is guaranteed money. If you take the guaranteed money plus his salary from playing in '05 you have the 20 million. Why wouldn't the Chiefs have to come up with a deal that puts that amount of money in his pocket in the same time period if there was a trade?

5M unguaranteed v. 14M guaranteed up front--Im sure he'd take the latter.

All FA contracts start with a first year base salary that is vet minimum because they're getting the guaranteed money up front.

So even if your 14M figure is accruate, and based upon Lucas SB, I dont disagree...KC would have to come up with 14M and not 20M--that's assuming the 14M couldnt be broken down into 2 tier bonus or other guarantees.

Surtain is not going to get ANY team to fork over double digit SB and a first year base of 6M--that aint going to happen cause it would result in a 8-10M cap hit for that team first year.

[BigChiefFan]

I think Surtain would get a $11-12.5 million signing bonus. On anything longer than 4 years that's not a large cap number depending on his base salary. I would expect a 5-7 year deal. If Law's physical doesn't look good, we need to pursue Surtain. IMO, we should be agressively pursuing him anyway.

[ct]

By the way, KC can get Surtain only be renegotiating a contract to fit under our cap(see damark's explanation of signing bonus cap impact), and make both parties' ego happy with the terms. Oh, and I hope if we go this route, we offer Woods/Wesley + 4th round pick.

[Mr. Laz]

According to NFLPA.ORG Surtain's BASE salary this year is 5.85 million. He is scheduled to become a free agent next year. He is one of the top corners in the league and will command a top contract. Using this years contracts as a baseline, I think it is safe to say that Surtain will be looking for at least a 14 mil signing bonus. That would mean that by next year at this time Surtain will have the capacity to earn 20 million for the year (14 bonus in free agency next year plus the near 6 million in base for playing for the Phins in 2005).

Don't the Chiefs have to beat that 20 million figure to have a reasonable shot at signing him? Why would he want to go anywhere if he wasn't in a position to make close to 20 million?

the money is the key issue...

miami would keep him if not for the new contract he wants


other teams would gladly give up a 2nd rounder if surtain still has 4 years left on his contract or wasn't looking for a huge new one.


is surtain worth a huge contract???

[BigChiefFan]

is surtain worth a huge contract???
IMO, he is. As long as we get the injury clause to cover our bases. I think he is second only to Ty Law and that's only when Ty Law is healthy. Law's health is a real concern at this point, IMO and Surtain's doesn't appear to be.

[blsilks]

We need law and surtain now that we have knight.

[Mr. Laz]

IMO, he is. As long as we get the injury clause to cover our bases. I think he is second only to Ty Law and that's only when Ty Law is healthy. Law's health is a real concern at this point, IMO and Surtain's doesn't appear to be.

and what about the rumor that surtains has a "degenerative knee condition"?

[Chiefnj]

He will NEVER play for that 5M salary this year, anywhere! Miami will cave and trade for what they can get, or be egotistical punks and cut him to immediately SAVE that salary cap #. And by the way, Lucas was BADLY overpaid, doesn't automatically mean Surtain will be as well!


Miami is under the cap even with his 6 Mil salary. He can play for them.

[ct]

and what about the rumor that surtains has a "degenerative knee condition"?

CeePee contract leverage.