We're A Trade Away From Having One Of the Best Secondaries In the NFL

[RINGLEADER]

I know there are financial considerations. I know there are cap considerations. But I've also followed the NFL long enough to know that you can get around the cap and/or restructure contracts to find the cap room. So it comes down to whether or not CP and Lamar Hunt will jump in head-first and do deals that bring BOTH Ty Law and Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs.

Think about that.

We're one trade (of a second-round pick, no less) and two contracts away from having one of the best (and deepest) secondaries in the NFL only one season after having one of the worst:

SS: Sammy Knight
FS: Jerome Woods/Greg Wesley

CB: Ty Law
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

This offense isn't going to be around forever. CP and Lamar should jump in and give us a real 1-3 year run at a Super Bowl with a real offense and a real defense.

[DaKCMan AP]

not gonna happen.

[nychief]

never going to happen.... but in a perfect/SANE world it would. But in that same world I would have a nacho tree in my backyard and my house would look like a small arrowhead stadium.

[Gaz]

not gonna happen.

Must not happen.

xoxo~
Gaz
Still not interested in “Hot Wheels” Law.

[Deberg_1990]

not gonna happen.

Agreed, I think we would all love to see it but its a pipe dream. Lamar is just not bold enough and willing to spend the money to do it....sigh....

[Hammock Parties]

There's no way we can afford two premiere starting corners.

[NaptownChief]

We were a mildly competent GM away from having that also with Rolle.

[paulgkc]

If we can get one of the two (Law, Surtain) our defense should be good enough to hold other teams under 30 points, which is pretty much all we need from them.

[kchero]

Way too much money...both would command very solid signing bonuses...we probably only have enough money for one of them and thats if we were able to get creative with the signing bonus probably.

[Deberg_1990]

If we can get one of the two (Law, Surtain) our defense should be good enough to hold other teams under 30 points, which is pretty much all we need from them.


My plan would be to obtain Surtain and then grab either Rolle or Rodgers with our 1st round pick

[Gaz]

If it actually comes down to Law or Surtain [please make it not so], you have to go with Surtain and eat the draft pick.

A flat no to Law.

xoxo~
Gaz
Picking the lesser of two crappy options.

[shaneo69]

If the trade is Woods, Wesley, Knight, McCleon, Bartee, and Battle for Ed Reed, Chris McAlister, and Samari Rolle, then yeah, we are just one trade away.

[NaptownChief]

My plan would be to obtain Surtain and then grab either Rolle or Rodgers with our 1st round pick


With a very good safety being brought in with Knight I think we can have a very good defense with just the addition of Rogers or Rolle...Rookie CB's have a tough position to learn and usually get beat up until later in their 1st year, early 2nd but if Rogers or Rolle is the worst player we have in the secondary then it is fair to say we would have a pretty good one.

If it were me I would buy a couple bargain upgrades with Dyson and Tommy Polley, draft Rogers or Rolle and if their is money left over would give Plax Buress a serious look.

[Gaz]

NaptownChief-

You had me until Plaxico.

xoxo~
Gaz
Almost hooked.

[NaptownChief]

NaptownChief-

You had me until Plaxico.

xoxo~
Gaz
Almost hooked.



Plax wouldn't be my dream choice at WR but we need to address that positon with a real #1 WR...The thought of Johnnie Morton not getting cut after June 1st cause our WR corp is so poor scares the hell out of me.

[jspchief]

SS: Sammy Knight
FS: Jerome Woods/Greg Wesley

CB: Ty Law
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield



Warfield, the 5 million dollar nickelback.....

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I say...

trade for Surtain
grab an OLB in FA
draft Rogers with first pick

then I will rejoice

[Gaz]

I agree that Morton should be gone.

My problem with Burress is that he was crying for the ball in Pittsburgh. The KC Offense is not WR-oriented, either. How long would he be content to be a role-player?

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure the Chiefs need that stuff in the locker room or the media.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Although knowing the Chiefs we won't trade for Surtain, sign Law who won't even play a full season, maximum 6 games this year, trade out of the first round into the second and grab some defensive tackle from a D1A school named Yozaki Tiki.

Just calling it how it's been seen. Some things never change, but hopefully the Chiefs decisions will.

[NaptownChief]

I agree that Morton should be gone.

My problem with Burress is that he was crying for the ball in Pittsburgh. The KC Offense is not WR-oriented, either. How long would he be content to be a role-player?

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure the Chiefs need that stuff in the locker room or the media.



Certainly a vaild concern...My guess is it might be different here because we are more of a pass first type of offense versus what he was dealing with in Puttsburgh with a very conservative run first offense to start with then what few passes were being made had to be shared with another very good WR in Hines Ward. He would see plenty of balls here in KC. I wish I could stop thinking about it and bringing it up but if the clowns in our front office would have grabbed Kerry Colbert with our 2nd round pick instead of Kris Wilson this hole would have already been properly addressed but according to Dick and his scouts there wasn't "any WR's left after the first 29 picks...". :harumph:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I agree that Morton should be gone.

My problem with Burress is that he was crying for the ball in Pittsburgh. The KC Offense is not WR-oriented, either. How long would he be content to be a role-player?

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure the Chiefs need that stuff in the locker room or the media.


The only reason it's not WR oriented is because we don't have a big time WR. Al is playing to the strengths of his personnel. Make no mistake, if we happen to get a dang good WR or two, they'd see the ball, definately.

[Braincase]

Time for Priest, Trent & Tony to go to the office and restructure a bit. Make it happen guys.

[Gaz]

You think that with Holmes/Johnson, Kennison and Gonzalez on the field, Burress would see enough passes to keep him happy?

I do not see that happening. All I know of Pittsburgh is what I read and what I hear from a couple of hardcore fans here at work, but it sounds unlikely to me.

xoxo~
Gaz
A worrier.

[Wallcrawler]

Plaxico Burress aint all that.

1. He's a malcontent who is out for personal accolades, not team accomplishment. Bitching and moaning about not getting enough passes while his team won 15 games in the regular season is all the proof you need of that. Anyone not ecstatic about being part of a 15 win season has some screws loose, and is not a team player.


2. Plaxico isnt a true number one either, in my opinion. Hines Ward was the main threat in that Steelers offense, he had all the skills you want as a number one. Plaxico is just a big target, with an even bigger mouth and ego. Kinda reminds me of the Peerless Price situation. Playing opposite Eric Moulds in Buffalo, Peerless Price looked like an awesome guy to have as your number one. Fast forward to Atlanta, where he is the only viable receiving threat, and he doesnt look nearly as good.


3. I think the guy has bipolar disorder or something. One minute he can be going all out for his team, giving his all, and the next minute he goes into a sulking mood like a Randy Moss Jr. We dont need that kind of BS on this offense.


If the Chiefs were looking for a receiver, they should have gone with Derrick Mason. That was their best bet in FA. Burress has some baggage, and thats why he hasnt signed with a team yet. He's gotten one serious offer, which he rejected, and hasnt received any other offers since. Unless the Eagles have made their offer, the Giants were the only team interested in him thusfar.

[MGRS13]

With a very good safety being brought in with Knight I think we can have a very good defense with just the addition of Rogers or Rolle...Rookie CB's have a tough position to learn and usually get beat up until later in their 1st year, early 2nd but if Rogers or Rolle is the worst player we have in the secondary then it is fair to say we would have a pretty good one.

If it were me I would buy a couple bargain upgrades with Dyson and Tommy Polley, draft Rogers or Rolle and if their is money left over would give Plax Buress a serious look.
This would still leave McCleon or Bartee on the field...to start the season and as nickle. This is as good as plan as Guns system will turn the D around, you saw how that worked. We need to sign Law or trade for Surtain and draft Rogers or Rolle. I don't care if Sammy Knight is the best Saftey to ever play the game, which he aint, he won't make McCleon or Bartee a better corner.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Plaxico Burress aint all that.

1. He's a malcontent who is out for personal accolades, not team accomplishment. Bitching and moaning about not getting enough passes while his team won 15 games in the regular season is all the proof you need of that. Anyone not ecstatic about being part of a 15 win season has some screws loose, and is not a team player.


2. Plaxico isnt a true number one either, in my opinion. Hines Ward was the main threat in that Steelers offense, he had all the skills you want as a number one. Plaxico is just a big target, with an even bigger mouth and ego. Kinda reminds me of the Peerless Price situation. Playing opposite Eric Moulds in Buffalo, Peerless Price looked like an awesome guy to have as your number one. Fast forward to Atlanta, where he is the only viable receiving threat, and he doesnt look nearly as good.


3. I think the guy has bipolar disorder or something. One minute he can be going all out for his team, giving his all, and the next minute he goes into a sulking mood like a Randy Moss Jr. We dont need that kind of BS on this offense.


If the Chiefs were looking for a receiver, they should have gone with Derrick Mason. That was their best bet in FA. Burress has some baggage, and thats why he hasnt signed with a team yet. He's gotten one serious offer, which he rejected, and hasnt received any other offers since. Unless the Eagles have made their offer, the Giants were the only team interested in him thusfar.

TO was a malcontent, out for personal accolades, as well, according to this BB, and he didn't do too bad in Philly, did he?

[brent102fire]

It will never happen. It seems that CP sees no logic in trading a second round pick for a proven, top notch CB in Surtain :shake:

[Gaz]

TO was a malcontent, out for personal accolades, as well, according to this BB, and he didn't do too bad in Philly, did he?

I don’t want Owens, either.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not consider that an issue.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

You think that with Holmes/Johnson, Kennison and Gonzalez on the field, Burress would see enough passes to keep him happy?

I do not see that happening. All I know of Pittsburgh is what I read and what I hear from a couple of hardcore fans here at work, but it sounds unlikely to me.

xoxo~
Gaz
A worrier.


You can never have enough weapons, IMO. It'd be different here, because we'd actually be throwing the ball to him.

[NaptownChief]

Kinda reminds me of the Peerless Price situation. Playing opposite Eric Moulds in Buffalo, Peerless Price looked like an awesome guy to have as your number one. Fast forward to Atlanta, where he is the only viable receiving threat, and he doesnt look nearly as good.







Certainly understand your point but in reality I think that had far more to do with the fact he went to Atlanta and has the worst passing QB in the NFL throwing to him...I predicted horrible numbers for him the day they announced that signing and it wasn't because of what I thought of Price. But I do understand your point.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

It will never happen. It seems that CP sees no logic in trading a second round pick for a proven, top notch CB in Surtain :shake:

I agree. It's a bargain, IMO.

I don't know if you can compare the positions, but look at what the Rams got for Faulk a couple years ago...a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder. That was a bargain, but not known until later. This is already known...he is a top-notch player, a 2nd rounder would be a bargain. He'd be well worth the 8 figure signing bonus. What pro bowl CB isn't worth that much money? Exactly.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Certainly understand your point but in reality I think that had far more to do with the fact he went to Atlanta and has the worst passing QB in the NFL throwing to him...I predicted horrible numbers for him the day they announced that signing and it wasn't because of what I thought of Price. But I do understand your point.

Agreed. No matter who plays WR for the Falcons, their QB has to learn how to read a defense and throw with accuracy first. I don't care how strong of an arm a QB has, it is overrated. Accuracy, poise, and reading a D is what counts. The things Vick can't do yet, but not saying he won't.

[NaptownChief]

This would still leave McCleon or Bartee on the field...to start the season and as nickle. This is as good as plan as Guns system will turn the D around, you saw how that worked. We need to sign Law or trade for Surtain and draft Rogers or Rolle. I don't care if Sammy Knight is the best Saftey to ever play the game, which he aint, he won't make McCleon or Bartee a better corner.


Understand, but the NFL game today isn't about having the perfect team free of any holes it is about having less holes than the other 31 teams...In a day and age of a hard sal cap everyone will have holes, if McCleon playing the nickel is our biggest hole on defense then I will feel very good about the Chiefs defense for the first time in a long time.

[Mastashake]

HE SPIKED A LIVE BALL...MAN!!!

What else do you need to say!?!

Seriously though I like Burress, but he's not for the Chiefs. I think you have to come to a point where you ask, "Which is more important, a 2nd corner or a WR?" And deep in your heart, you know the answer...

Besides, TG is like an all-star WR, and creates a lot more mismatches. All you need are 2 average WRs to run the Chiefs' O, we have our Playmaker. I'd rather see a WR who can blend into the background and step up to make a play now and then, than someone who wants to be the star of the show. But that's just me.

And Surtain for a round 2 is the right choice IMO, but round 2s are valuable. Even though the Chiefs suck at picking 2s, There's a lot of depth at WR this year and some might consider that pick to crucial to add another WR.

If they would have gotten someone like T.J. Houschmanzadeh (sp?) this wouldn't be a question.

Mastashake

[MGRS13]

Understand, but the NFL game today isn't about having the perfect team free of any holes it is about having less holes than the other 31 teams...In a day and age of a hard sal cap everyone will have holes, if McCleon playing the nickel is our biggest hole on defense then I will feel very good about the Chiefs defense for the first time in a long time.
I understand where you are coming from I just think if we have a rookie on one side and McCleon in nickle we will still be lit up like a christmas tree. I mean who does Knight help a rookie or our shi*ty nickle? Then who helps Wesley?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

HE SPIKED A LIVE BALL...MAN!!!

What else do you need to say!?!

Seriously though I like Burress, but he's not for the Chiefs. I think you have to come to a point where you ask, "Which is more important, a 2nd corner or a WR?" And deep in your heart, you know the answer...

Besides, TG is like an all-star WR, and creates a lot more mismatches. All you need are 2 average WRs to run the Chiefs' O, we have our Playmaker. I'd rather see a WR who can blend into the background and step up to make a play now and then, than someone who wants to be the star of the show. But that's just me.

And Surtain for a round 2 is the right choice IMO, but round 2s are valuable. Even though the Chiefs suck at picking 2s, There's a lot of depth at WR this year and some might consider that pick to crucial to add another WR.

If they would have gotten someone like T.J. Houschmanzadeh (sp?) this wouldn't be a question.

Mastashake

It isn't a question of who's cheaper, because both can be had. Burress said the other day he's willing to sign a one year deal somewhere, have a monster season, and then go back out onto the market if the team doesn't sign him long term. I'd take that risk. You'd basically be getting him for free this year, like a tryout, then if he's something you want to keep around, sign him long term. We could still get Surtain for the 2nd rounder and signed to a big contract.

The question is would the Chiefs do this?

[NaptownChief]

I understand where you are coming from I just think if we have a rookie on one side and McCleon in nickle we will still be lit up like a christmas tree. I mean who does Knight help a rookie or our shi*ty nickle? Then who helps Wesley?


Does this mean you are giving up on all of our Safety/CB converts like Bartee and Battle? :D

[MGRS13]

Does this mean you are giving up on all of our Safety/CB converts like Bartee and Battle? :D
Yes I have given up on those guys all together I don't care how fast they are how much they can bench or whos yard they mow all I care is about thier ability to play NFL football which as far as I can tell they have none.

[patteeu]

I know there are financial considerations. I know there are cap considerations. But I've also followed the NFL long enough to know that you can get around the cap and/or restructure contracts to find the cap room. So it comes down to whether or not CP and Lamar Hunt will jump in head-first and do deals that bring BOTH Ty Law and Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs.

Think about that.

We're one trade (of a second-round pick, no less) and two contracts away from having one of the best (and deepest) secondaries in the NFL only one season after having one of the worst:

SS: Sammy Knight
FS: Jerome Woods/Greg Wesley

CB: Ty Law
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

This offense isn't going to be around forever. CP and Lamar should jump in and give us a real 1-3 year run at a Super Bowl with a real offense and a real defense.


Let's apply a version Pareto's Principal (http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm) to the Chiefs defense. Pareto's Principal (sometimes known as the 80:20 Rule) can be applied to a wide variety of human activities. The rule is really more of a general observation than a strict mathematical rule, but it suggests that 80% of a given job will consume 20% of the resources while the remaining 20% of the job will consume the remaining 80% of the resources. To illustrate, consider the job of painting a room. It's easy to slop on paint in the middle of the walls and cover a large amount of the entire surface area in a short amount of time with very little effort. But when you get to the detail work at the edges or around fixtures, care must be taken or you will get paint in places that you don't really want it. This detail work takes up a lot more time, effort, and resources (e.g. painting with a smaller brush instead of a roller, taking the time to lay down tape and dropcloth, etc.) despite the fact that you are dealing with much less surface area.

Your plan might well create the best defensive secondary in the league. But at what cost? In my view, we would be better off shooting for a top 6 secondary and applying the saved resources to some other area of need. Another OLB, a young CB or a pass rushing DE come to mind on the defense.

And as you noted in your post, the offense isn't going to be around forever. Maybe instead of creating a situation where Eric Warfield plays nickle CB in the best secondary in the league, we should let him play 2nd CB and find our nickle from the group of Battle, Bartee, Woods, McCleon, cheaper FA, or rookie group and use the saved resources to find a young, playmaker WR or another OL prospect in the draft to rejuvenate the strength of the team.

[Mr. Laz]

would be nice..

but i don't see the chiefs fork over the money it would take to add surtain AND law.

[keg in kc]

Somebody pass the :bong:

[patteeu]

If the Chiefs were looking for a receiver, they should have gone with Derrick Mason. That was their best bet in FA. Burress has some baggage, and thats why he hasnt signed with a team yet. He's gotten one serious offer, which he rejected, and hasnt received any other offers since. Unless the Eagles have made their offer, the Giants were the only team interested in him thusfar.

If the Chiefs are looking for a WR, they should get one in the draft. They need youth at the position. Spend FA dollars on shoring up the defense to give them a chance to win this season AND to create a positive environment where their defensive youth may actually develop someday. Then use the draft to build for the future, which in my world includes accounting for the fact that the Chiefs offense is far older than their defense.

[el borracho]

I know there are financial considerations. I know there are cap considerations. But I've also followed the NFL long enough to know that you can get around the cap and/or restructure contracts to find the cap room. So it comes down to whether or not CP and Lamar Hunt will jump in head-first and do deals that bring BOTH Ty Law and Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs.

Think about that.

We're one trade (of a second-round pick, no less) and two contracts away from having one of the best (and deepest) secondaries in the NFL only one season after having one of the worst:

SS: Sammy Knight
FS: Jerome Woods/Greg Wesley

CB: Ty Law
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

This offense isn't going to be around forever. CP and Lamar should jump in and give us a real 1-3 year run at a Super Bowl with a real offense and a real defense.
Drinking before noon, huh?

I've been that guy.

[Mr. Laz]

Somebody pass the :bong:

apparently he got the good stuff with the little red hairs :p

[Bowser]

If we don't trade our 2nd rounder for Surtain, we had best not use it on a wide receiver, deep draft or not. This team needs defensive players, period. Hell, Trent threw for nearly 4,600 yards without what people would call a "#1 receiver". Getting a receiver high in the draft is just silly, imo.

Look at it this way - IF we don't get Surtain and hold on to our #2, that means in all likelihood we will take a corner in round 1. Instead of having a multiple Pro Bowl vet playing corner, we have a rook. I would hope that we would take an OLBer with the #2 instead of a receiver, just because our offense will be just fine without a rookie receiver, and our defense would NOT be OK without some young up-and-comer at linebacker (hopefully).

Our offense IS getting old, but we are most certainly not at the point where we panic and start to infuse youth this year. That comes next draft and off-season.

[Michael Michigan]

I don’t want Owens, either.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not consider that an issue.


Exactly.

Great WR's suck.


:rolleyes:

[ZootedGranny]

If the trade is Woods, Wesley, Knight, McCleon, Bartee, and Battle for Ed Reed, Chris McAlister, and Samari Rolle, then yeah, we are just one trade away.

Exactly. If we had Surtain we'd have a player close to Reed, but that's it.

[Hammock Parties]

You're right. Here's the trade:

Baltimore gets Trent Green

Chiefs get Chris McCalister, Samari Rolle and Ed Reed

Now we are fooked at QB!

[buddha]

Who couldn't say that given those conditions?

All we know right now is that KC's CBs are the worst in the league TODAY.

[Gaz]

Exactly.

Great WR's suck...

I do not want anyone on the roster that I am ashamed of. I would be ashamed to have a ‘hole like Owen on the roster. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if the Chiefs dumped Warfield thrice drunken butt.

xoxo~
Gaz
Prefers to be proud of his team.

[MGRS13]

I do not want anyone on the roster that I am ashamed of. I would be ashamed to have a ‘hole like Owen on the roster. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if the Chiefs dumped Warfield thrice drunken butt.

xoxo~
Gaz
Prefers to be proud of his team.

I don't care if you have to empty Leavenworth just win the goddamn superbowl allready!

[Gaz]

I don't care if you have to empty Leavenworth just win the goddamn superbowl allready!

Nope.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not willing to root for a team of ‘holes.

[FloridaChief]

I do not want anyone on the roster that I am ashamed of. I would be ashamed to have a ‘hole like Owen on the roster. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if the Chiefs dumped Warfield thrice drunken butt.

xoxo~
Gaz
Prefers to be proud of his team.


You post at night now?!?...


I need to clean up my act...

[Gaz]

You post at night now?!?...


I need to clean up my act...

Just getting ready for bed.

I have to work tomorrow, so I will here in the morning.

xoxo~
Gaz
Definitely not Night Crew material.

[MGRS13]

Nope.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not willing to root for a team of ‘holes.

Really? You would rather have a team of good guys go 7-9 then a superbowl with 3 or 4 fellons?

[ChiefsFanatic]

There's no way we can afford two premiere starting corners.

Especially since we now afford THE premier TE, a premier RB, 2 premier OL, and a top 5 QB.

[Gaz]

Really? You would rather have a team of good guys go 7-9 then a superbowl with 3 or 4 fellons?

Yes.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has no difficulty at all making that choice.

[Gaz]

Good night, folks.

5:00 gonna come early.

xoxo~
Gaz
Needs…no, really NEEDS his beauty sleep.

[MGRS13]

Yes.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has no difficulty at all making that choice.

OK thats cool I can see where you are coming from in your post in the future. To me though they(the players) are just horses. I don't care what you do off the field only on. I also don't care if you are the greatest player in the world once you get hurt, all I care about is the guy that replaces you. The game is all I care about I don't want there autograph nor do I collect cards of any type. I just want a superbowl win. Hell I wouldn't care if they didn't put the names on the backs of the jerseys.

[FloridaChief]

Goodnight, Gaz. Sweet dreams of pencil-neck crushings...