I miss having a real QB

[vailpass]

Broncos turn to Frerotte
After Garcia rejection, ex-backup is on radar

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
March 14, 2005

Having tried and failed to make Jeff Garcia their backup quarterback, the Denver Broncos will take another swing at a familiar face for the job.

Former Broncos quarterback Gus Frerotte is scheduled to visit the team's Dove Valley complex today. It will not be a long trip for the 33-year- old, who maintains an off-season home in the Denver area.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/broncos/article/0,1299,DRMN_17_3619742,00.html

:deevee: :banghead: :banghead: :deevee: :banghead:

[Bwana]

ouch

[BigMeatballDave]

Wha? According to Teej, Plummer is the real deal...

[Gravedigger]

hahahah yeah broncos suck since elway left give me a break plummer and ferrotte what a joke broncos are desperate.

[jspchief]

Whatr the hell is Garcia thinking? He just passed on the best opportunity he'll get. A chance to back-up a turnover prone QB that is quickly becoming unpopular, in a system that would allow him to use his legs. Hell, he'd have been the starter by mid-season.

[milkman]

Garcia signed with Detroit, reuniting him with Mooch, and baking up a QB, Harrington, that himself is on the hot seat.

[Spott]

Get used to it. We've been without one since the early 70's.

[milkman]

I understand your pain VP, and I revel in it!

[jspchief]

Garcia signed with Detroit, reuniting him with Mooch, and baking up a QB, Harrington, that himself is on the hot seat.

Ah, missed that. Good choice then. Same scenario, with much better WRs to throw to. Detroit could be a contender for the North this year.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Get used to it. We've been without one since the early 70's.

Not a Trent Green fan?

[vailpass]

I understand your pain VP, and I revel in it!
nlm
Thanks for the rochambeau Side Winder. If you guys were looking at Gus Forgot I would feel the exact same way. Damn I miss #7

[vailpass]

hahahah yeah broncos suck since elway left give me a break plummer and ferrotte what a joke broncos are desperate.

Is it an in-service day at the KC elementary school district?

[Gravedigger]

Trent Green is a pimp with our offense anybody who says differently can shoot themselves for blasphemy.

[Gravedigger]

im not following you on the in-service day at the KC elementary school district please elaborate your insults

[vailpass]

im not following you on the in-service day at the KC elementary school district please elaborate your insults

No insult intended, just f-ing with ya' as your comment came in a little unrefined. As an outsider I'm aware of my guest status and try to show respect (sometimes I fail) and ask for the same in return. You're new here, you'll get it. There is a mixture of all breeds that co-exist here.
This board is kind of like (obsure sci-fi reference to follow) Callahn's Cross Time Saloon.

[TRR]

I was very glad to see Garcia sign elsewhere. He would have been the perfect fit for the Broncos roll out offense.

[vailpass]

I was very glad to see Garcia sign elsewhere. He would have been the perfect fit for the Broncos roll out offense.

I completely agree. Wals;h told him the same thing.
Still, it's pretty damn sad when you are actually hoping Jeff Garcia will join your team.

[Gravedigger]

Well although I'm a rookie to these forums I am not a rookie to other forums of a similar nature. I've been a chiefs fan since the Christian Okoye days when I was a wee lad. I stumbled onto this forums cause it's good to talk football with people who have the same knowledge and interests as I do. But sorry for posting such a drab post on how the broncos qb situation sucks I've just hated them for so long that now to see them in the sh**hole is amusing and makes me laugh. Oh and Garcia is "talented" but he's getting to the end of his rope like Kurt Warner. It's just a desperation move on the behalf of the lions and the cardinals with warner thinking that these quarterbacks which haven't been nearly as good as when they came into this league will have an impact on the team in some way shape or form. Nowadays it's best to draft young QB's like David Carr, Joey Harrington, Payton and Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and just have them experience what it feels like to be the leader of the team.

[BigMeatballDave]

Get used to it. We've been without one since the early 70's.Wha? Granted, Green is no Payton Manning, but he is a damn good QB...

[Gravedigger]

Amen big chief dave.

[vailpass]

Well although I'm a rookie to these forums I am not a rookie to other forums of a similar nature. I've been a chiefs fan since the Christian Okoye days when I was a wee lad. I stumbled onto this forums cause it's good to talk football with people who have the same knowledge and interests as I do. But sorry for posting such a drab post on how the broncos qb situation sucks I've just hated them for so long that now to see them in the sh**hole is amusing and makes me laugh. Oh and Garcia is "talented" but he's getting to the end of his rope like Kurt Warner. It's just a desperation move on the behalf of the lions and the cardinals with warner thinking that these quarterbacks which haven't been nearly as good as when they came into this league will have an impact on the team in some way shape or form. Nowadays it's best to draft young QB's like David Carr, Joey Harrington, Payton and Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and just have them experience what it feels like to be the leader of the team.

I completely understand your pleasure in seeing the Broncos QB situation go from something to fear to something to laugh at; I'd feel the exact same way if I was a KC fan.
Drafting a franchise QB is definetely the only way to go if you want to build a consistent, dominant program. Problem is for every Brady, Manning, CArr, etc. there are about fifty Klingler's.

[Den9899]

hahahah yeah broncos suck since elway left give me a break plummer and ferrotte what a joke broncos are desperate.

I didn't know kcnut had a son. :hmmm:

[Eleazar]

Is Beerline no longer available?

[J Diddy]

I completely understand your pleasure in seeing the Broncos QB situation go from something to fear to something to laugh at; I'd feel the exact same way if I was a KC fan.
Drafting a franchise QB is definetely the only way to go if you want to build a consistent, dominant program. Problem is for every Brady, Manning, CArr, etc. there are about fifty Klingler's.

You need not tell us about that.


Todd Blackledge

[Braincase]

I think y'all ought to go back to the future and sign Tommy Maddox.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

the fish are saying they signed him

[whoman69]

Just counting the days until someone on ESPN calls Plummer an MVP candidate again. :rolleyes:

[milkman]

Just counting the days until someone on ESPN calls Plummer an MVP candidate again. :rolleyes:

Most Vaginal Player?

[tyton75]

lol... Gus would rather play for the Dolphins instead of Denver... thats gotta suck for you

[CoMoChief]

JAKE PLUMMER IS A PIECE OF SHIT AND WE'RE GONNA KICK HIS LITTLE ASS THIS YEAR.

[Spott]

Not a Trent Green fan?

I have no complaints about the his performance or the way he runs the offense. He's just not a "real" upper echelon QB like vailpass was referring to.

[Chan93lx50]

Green ranks up there with the same toughness as Farve, JMHO

[milkman]

Green ranks up there with the same toughness as Farve, JMHO


Whew.....I was worried you were gonna say Steve McNair!

[Carlota69]

Most Vaginal Player?
ROFL ROFL

[Mile High Mania]

Vailpass... this isn't directed at you, I'm just typing it in your thread.

Nothing gives me more tired head than listening to how quickly some folks have thrown their arms up in regards to the QB situation.

When Denver decided to go a different route when SOB flamed out, there really weren't many choices out there on the FA market or via trade. This offseason, there weren't many valid options either.

I too hate the high INTs, but if you were to list 5 things that were wrong with Denver last season and why they didn't win 11 games or a playoff game... Plummer would rank about 5th on my list.

Bad Dline, secondary giving up big plays and failing to create turnovers, inconsistency and TE and the RB injuries and indecision rater higher to me.

Would I like Jake to throw fewer INTs? Hell yeah.

Do I think Denver can win more games and do better in the postseason with better play from the TE, ONE go-to RB and improvement on the dline and with defensive turnovers? Hell yeah.

When Plummer was signed, I accepted with the notion that he's better than SOB - his style of play fits the system - he has the potential to do really well (like 4,000 yds and 27 TDs), but he will frustrate you with the INTs.

I look at 3 losses in 2004- Cincy, Atlanta and Oakland. I point to the defense in ALL 3 as the reasons Denver lost.

They were torched by all 3 teams and against Oakland, they gave up a double digit lead late in the game.

Hell, the one game where Plummer really sucked was the loss at SD and I have no issues pegging him with that loss.

Some fans still expect any Denver QB to be Elway or even Elway Lite. Well, that QB exists, but he hasn't been available for Denver to sign the last few years.

In time though, like preseason... much of the Plummer bashing will come to a halt.

[Wallcrawler]

I dont know about Plummer bashing coming to a halt.

That guy just makes some really, really awful decisions under pressure sometimes. I think back to the opener this year, his attempt at a left handed pass while about to be sacked that was intercepted by Shawn Barber.

He should have just eaten the ball, and taken the sack. He will fling it up there though, no regard for not turning it over. 20 picks isnt going to get it done. He's had a high interception rate his entire career. Lots of people blamed the Cardinals team he was on, but even with talent around him, he still makes some bad decisions, and gives the defense a gift.

You cant win playing like that.



Im glad that Garcia didnt sign there, that would have been very bad. He would have ousted Plummer fairly quickly I think, once he grasped the offense.

But I can see why he took Detroit. He's been a Pro Bowl performer under Steve Mariucci, and there has been rumblings that Joey Harrington is running out of time to prove himself.

[Mile High Mania]

I agree that he's made some dumb plays for a guy that's been around as long as he has... but, I did notice him taking the sack or just running with it more often later in the season.

Again, he's far from perfect.

[easymobee]

You guys act like Jake Plummer is a "Poor Mans" Ryan Leaf.

Plummer is 20-12 over the last 2 years with Denver (we really don't care about his AZ stats as Bronco fans). Including a 2-2 record vs KC .... We Blew you guys out once and beat you by 10 the other time, you guys blew us out once and beat us by 1 pt the other time.

Trent Green is 20-12 over the last 2 years too ....

I don't see anyone here complaining about Trent Green.

EDIT - Its also worth noting that Jake Plummer and the Arizona Cardinals have experienced playoff success more recently than the KC Chiefs.

[Wallcrawler]

I agree that he's made some dumb plays for a guy that's been around as long as he has... but, I did notice him taking the sack or just running with it more often later in the season.

Again, he's far from perfect.


Noone is. And there are always the few interceptions that go on record that arent the QB's fault, like passes batted at the line, or hitting the receiver's hands and bouncing into the hands of a defender. That makes the stats look a little worse than they are, but when you have memorable plays like that left handed attempt, or just heaving one up there, it sticks with you, sometimes even longer than him making a great positive pass.


Its like in football it takes about 3 positive plays to make up for one bad one. People just naturally like to have something to complain about.

If he would discipline himself to just not trying to make something happen that really isnt going to happen, he could be a solid QB.

Its like his brain cramps or something under pressure sometimes, and some really awful plays are the result.

But its tough to hang the playoff loss on Jake, when the defense gives up 350 yards passing to Peyton Manning in the first half.

But like they say, if your team is doing badly, most people blame the QB first.

[Kclee]

It's also worth noting that Trent had to deal with 22 defenders. The opponents,and his own every game.

[Mile High Mania]

Noone is. And there are always the few interceptions that go on record that arent the QB's fault, like passes batted at the line, or hitting the receiver's hands and bouncing into the hands of a defender. That makes the stats look a little worse than they are, but when you have memorable plays like that left handed attempt, or just heaving one up there, it sticks with you, sometimes even longer than him making a great positive pass.


Its like in football it takes about 3 positive plays to make up for one bad one. People just naturally like to have something to complain about.

If he would discipline himself to just not trying to make something happen that really isnt going to happen, he could be a solid QB.

Its like his brain cramps or something under pressure sometimes, and some really awful plays are the result.

But its tough to hang the playoff loss on Jake, when the defense gives up 350 yards passing to Peyton Manning in the first half.

But like they say, if your team is doing badly, most people blame the QB first.

Agreed. He's an easy target b/c of some of the dumb things he does. Fans like to focus on the INTs, but he had some damn fine games in 2004. I like his fire and determination.

Until he wins a playoff game in Denver, he's going to have a hard time knocking the label as a dumb QB. Don't look now, but if he throws 10 more TDs than INTs in 2005... he can rid himself of the "more career INTs than TDs" issue.

If Putzier is really worth the money and Bell turns out to be the consistent 20+ carry RB... the offense can do great things next year. Jake has a nice rapport with Rod and Lelie. Lelie was becoming a great deep threat, all he needs is to be that 4 or 5 catch a game player and not just the 3 catch 80 yard guy, with one of those receptions for 35 yards.

The big issue is going to be defense again, and while they've ranked high the last two seasons... it's deceiving as they give up big plays, fail to create many turnovers and are mediocre on the pass rush. Those 3 things along concern me more than Plummer throwing 20 INTs in a season.

[chiefsfolife]

Broncos turn to Frerotte
After Garcia rejection, ex-backup is on radar

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
March 14, 2005

Having tried and failed to make Jeff Garcia their backup quarterback, the Denver Broncos will take another swing at a familiar face for the job.

Former Broncos quarterback Gus Frerotte is scheduled to visit the team's Dove Valley complex today. It will not be a long trip for the 33-year- old, who maintains an off-season home in the Denver area.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/broncos/article/0,1299,DRMN_17_3619742,00.html

:deevee: :banghead: :banghead: :deevee: :banghead:
what...you mean like trent green?

[chiefsfolife]

You guys act like Jake Plummer is a "Poor Mans" Ryan Leaf.

Plummer is 20-12 over the last 2 years with Denver (we really don't care about his AZ stats as Bronco fans). Including a 2-2 record vs KC .... We Blew you guys out once and beat you by 10 the other time, you guys blew us out once and beat us by 1 pt the other time.

Trent Green is 20-12 over the last 2 years too ....

I don't see anyone here complaining about Trent Green.

EDIT - Its also worth noting that Jake Plummer and the Arizona Cardinals have experienced playoff success more recently than the KC Chiefs.

i guess that makes mcleon 20 and 12...its a team game donkeys fag...donkey defense helped him out alittle

[chiefsfolife]

You guys act like Jake Plummer is a "Poor Mans" Ryan Leaf.

Plummer is 20-12 over the last 2 years with Denver (we really don't care about his AZ stats as Bronco fans). Including a 2-2 record vs KC .... We Blew you guys out once and beat you by 10 the other time, you guys blew us out once and beat us by 1 pt the other time.

Trent Green is 20-12 over the last 2 years too ....

I don't see anyone here complaining about Trent Green.

EDIT - Its also worth noting that Jake Plummer and the Arizona Cardinals have experienced playoff success more recently than the KC Chiefs.

by the way...you got any other great stats for plummer..hahahaha

[craneref]

Gee I would have guessed that you would prefer a real NFL team or some real fans, but if you want to wish for QB, that is fine with me. Of course it is much harder to play QB for Denver when you have to actually honor the line of scrimmage on a pass play, it really limits your passing options. GO CHIEFS

[chiefsfolife]

Gee I would have guessed that you would prefer a real NFL team or some real fans, but if you want to wish for QB, that is fine with me. Of course it is much harder to play QB for Denver when you have to actually honor the line of scrimmage on a pass play, it really limits your passing options. GO CHIEFS

hahahaha...fv#ck the donkeys....they getting smashed this season

[Mile High Mania]

by the way...you got any other great stats for plummer..hahahaha

What kind do you want?

Since 2001... Green has thrown 66 INTs and Plummer 61 INTs.

All sorts of stats out there that can be distorted for anyone's viewing pleasure.

[chiefsfolife]

What kind do you want?

Since 2001... Green has thrown 66 INTs and Plummer 61 INTs.

All sorts of stats out there that can be distorted for anyone's viewing pleasure.

trent
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2001 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 523 296 56.6 3783 7.23 67 17 24 39/198 51 12 71.1
2002 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 470 287 61.1 3690 7.85 99 26 13 26/141 46 13 92.6
2003 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 523 330 63.1 4039 7.72 67 24 12 20/130 54 8 92.6
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 556 369 66.4 4591 8.26 70 27 17 32/227 59 9 95.2


plummer

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2001 Arizona Cardinals 16 16 525 304 57.9 3653 6.96 68 18 14 29/204 52 11 79.6
2002 Arizona Cardinals 16 16 530 284 53.6 2972 5.61 80 18 20 36/248 29 3 65.7
2003 Denver Broncos 11 11 302 189 62.6 2182 7.23 60 15 7 14/73 26 5 91.2
2004 Denver Broncos 16 16 521 303 58.2 4089 7.85 85 27 20 15/90 55 9 84.5


hahahahah...what now donkeys

[chiefsfolife]

hey...maybe its just cause trent greens got great recievers ;)

[easymobee]

hey...maybe its just cause trent greens got great recievers ;)

Well, if i were to start a thread titled "The Chiefs have horrible Receivers" i'd get flamed from here to eternity.

I'd get a bunch of Eddie Kennison - Johnny Morton stats thrown at me first .....

And then we'd get into the Tony Gonzales - Priest Holmes 70 catches a year argument.

This isn't important though .... whats important is your presence here on this thread.

I remember a "swearing off of the team" post binge the day Samari Rolle signed with the Ravens?

All Talk?

[chiefsfolife]

What kind do you want?

Since 2001... Green has thrown 66 INTs and Plummer 61 INTs.

All sorts of stats out there that can be distorted for anyone's viewing pleasure.

its funny how that was the only area where plummer had an advatage....out 13....12-1 GREEN beeeatch

[chiefsfolife]

Well, if i were to start a thread titled "The Chiefs have horrible Receivers" i'd get flamed from here to eternity.

I'd get a bunch of Eddie Kennison - Johnny Morton stats thrown at me first .....

And then we'd get into the Tony Gonzales - Priest Holmes 70 catches a year argument.

This isn't important though .... whats important is your presence here on this thread.

I remember a "swearing off of the team" post binge the day Samari Rolle signed with the Ravens?

All Talk?


you misunderstood...im here because im a chief fan...what the hell is your donkeys azz doin here. i was just trying to motivate the team...i never once said i wouldnt still support them forever. In fact i made sure it was understood and i never said anything negative about the team, quote me if you want...just carl and I never really meant it anywayz, like i said it was just for motivation

[easymobee]

i was just trying to motivate the team .......................... like i said it was just for motivation

I didn't realize your posts were "must read motivation tools" for the Chiefs players and mgmt.

Carry On ... Tony Robbins.

[Mile High Mania]

its funny how that was the only area where plummer had an advatage....out 13....12-1 GREEN beeeatch

Well you have playoff appearances.

I'm not going to get into a debate of who is better, I'll admit that Green is with no hesitation.

The only receiver with KC that I would take is Gonzo. KC hasn't had a true consistent receiving threat in years. Then again, we're getting off topic.

Many things contribute to the success or failure of a QB. Jake still makes more than his fair share of mistakes and he has the weapons, so that's no exuse. I have said since last offseason when Sharpe retired that they needed to replace him with a solid veteran. They haven't done that yet, but many are high on Putzier.

Putz looks good, but he needs to be a 50 catch - 600+ yard - 6 TD player at the TE position in that offense. Hopefully, Putz can become that player this year... Jake, like many QBs, need that safety valve at TE.

[chiefsfolife]

Well you have playoff appearances.

I'm not going to get into a debate of who is better, I'll admit that Green is with no hesitation.

The only receiver with KC that I would take is Gonzo. KC hasn't had a true consistent receiving threat in years. Then again, we're getting off topic.

Many things contribute to the success or failure of a QB. Jake still makes more than his fair share of mistakes and he has the weapons, so that's no exuse. I have said since last offseason when Sharpe retired that they needed to replace him with a solid veteran. They haven't done that yet, but many are high on Putzier.

Putz looks good, but he needs to be a 50 catch - 600+ yard - 6 TD player at the TE position in that offense. Hopefully, Putz can become that player this year... Jake, like many QBs, need that safety valve at TE.

watching them both play and not bein biased...they both play with alot of heart but trent green is just more intelligent...plummer is more athletic. plummer has ballz but thats not good for a qb, plummer is way more panicky also. The only thing i like bout him is his athleticsim

[Mile High Mania]

watching them both play and not bein biased...they both play with alot of heart but trent green is just more intelligent...plummer is more athletic. plummer has ballz but thats not good for a qb, plummer is way more panicky also. The only thing i like bout him is his athleticsim

Agreed. Plummer definitely lacks poise more often than not and that's disturbing, and something that as a Broncos' fan, people are just going to have to accept until something better comes along. And contrary to many, a 35 year old broken down Garcia is not an answer. He might have been the best option at backing up, but damn sure not the answer for a starter.

I think Plummer bounces back well from an ill-fated INT, hell he's had plenty of practice, but that's one part I like. There were a number of times where he followed up an ugly INT with a nice drive and a long TD pass to Lelie or another receiver.

You don't have to have a perfect QB to win the superbowl and that's good news for Denver fans, but with that being said... you do need your defense to be better in the areas in which ours sucked in 2004. More turnovers, more QB pressure and fewer big plays. Those 3 things killed Denver more in 2004 than any or all of Plummer's INTs. It's just easier to blame 1 guy for the issues than different facets of the defense.

[ChiefGator]

I have to admit I was worred after Griese had his stellar year in 2000 (?). And I guess that Plummer was an upgrade over Griese, at least in the huddle and in the locker room.

Obviously, Plummer can and has beat us. It must be quite a challenge to follow up a legend. I would imagine Plummer probably has it easier than Griese did in that regard though.

It does seem that the way the league is going, it takes a good QB to get you deeper into the playoffs. I guess the days of Dilfer and Collins as the starting super bowl QB's may be behind us. Lately, most teams to get very far have had a pretty stellar QB.

With alot of help, Plummer may be able to get you there. It just doesn't look like you are getting the help, JMHO.

What's with the desire to have a SINGLE go-to back anyway? Haven't you guys been rotating rb's for the last 5 years with pretty good success?

[Mile High Mania]

My only desire to have a single back is consistency... Ruben came on strong after a month of issues with injury's and Q. Ruben had a great stretch of games, then as the season end was near, Bell was getting more time.

There was no consistent ground game the final month of the year... some will blame Plummer for that as well, I suppose.

[ChiefGator]

There was no consistent ground game the final month of the year... some will blame Plummer for that as well, I suppose.

Indeed.. If 'He who will remain nameless' was still your QB, instead of Plummer, you would have had a 3000 yard rusher. :)

[Bowser]

At least Trent Green hasn't had to have a press conference to apologize for turning towards the crowd and grabbing his crotch..........

;)

[Mile High Mania]

At least Trent Green hasn't had to have a press conference to apologize for turning towards the crowd and grabbing his crotch..........

;)

Great point.