Quantity or Quality?

[Chiefnj]

Hypo:
The Chiefs make no other moves in free agency, nor do they trade for Surtain.

It's draft day. DJ and Rolle are off the board. Rogers, Pac Man and Pollack are still available. The phone rings, it's the Eagles. They want the number 15 pick in exchange for their 31st and 35th selection. Using the magical draft value chart, the exchange comes out 100 pts in favor of KC. Do you trade picks?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Beer needs to be quality for the first 5 or 6...after that you can move to the cheap stuff to achieve quantity.






What was the question?

[eazyb81]

I voted no because if we passed on Law and Surtain, we would need a quality CB at the #15 pick, rather then an okay CB in the late 1st/early 2nd. I think Rogers or PacMan would be much better in their rookie year then who we could get later on. However, if we acquired Surtain or Rolle, then I would make the trade.

[Phobia]

Most any other year, yes I do.

Not this year. Not when a CB or LB could put us over the top. I grab the best CB on the board and hope he learns fast.

[philfree]

No I take Rogers if he's still there. I don't care what anyone says if we replace our #2 CBs position (Bartee/MCClingons) with Rogers it's an upgrade. We'll be a better secindary with that change alone. How anyone can argue agaisnt that after watching last years D would be totally beyond me.

PhilFree :arrow:

[jspchief]

I'll go so far as to say I think it will happen (not necessarily with the eagles). We'll use one of those picks to get Blackstock, who doesn't warrant a #15, but won't be around at #47

[Bwana]

Nope, we need a quality player.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Why drop down...?....... so we can get two more Junior Siavii's?

[SCTrojan]

It would depend on if you believed that either of those CBs would still be available when your turn came at 31. That might be the case, depending on how the draft evolves through the day. Momentum on types of players drafted always seems to play a role during these things.

You might even be able to pull the trigger on the Surtain trade at that point. If the hesitancy is based upon the fear of not having another first-day pick, then you could address that fear by getting the Eagles' second-round pick.

Under those circumstances, I'd make the trade.

[Chiefnj]

Why drop down...?....... so we can get two more Junior Siavii's?

Yes. Are two Junior's worth one Ryan Sims?

[the Talking Can]

quality

quality

Surtain not Herndon

quality

[milkman]

I think we've seen where quantity has gotten us.

I'm not opposed to trading down to add another pick, but not that far.

I'd like to, after reading scouting reports, and hearing Keg's comments, pick Marlin Jackson.

It looks like he could be there in the late 1st/early 2nd, but I wouldn't want to trade to far down and miss him.

[Mr. Laz]

Quantity or Quality?

lemme ask the question this way?



do you want 1 Patrick surtain or 2 william bartee's?

[jspchief]

I think we've seen where quantity has gotten us.

I'm not opposed to trading down to add another pick, but not that far.

I'd like to, after reading scouting reports, and hearing Keg's comments, pick Marlin Jackson.

It looks like he could be there in the late 1st/early 2nd, but I wouldn't want to trade to far down and miss him.

Marlin Jackson will be a free safety in the NFL. You can quote me on that.

[Gravedigger]

I think the phrase Quantity over Quality has been the basis with the Chiefs ever since the late nineties. We haven't drafted well so I'd rather keep the front pick and trade the 2nd for a proven player then take our chances with another battle or bartee.

[milkman]

Marlin Jackson will be a free safety in the NFL. You can quote me on that.

Marlin Jackson will not be a safety in the NFL. You can quote me on that.

[AustinChief]

Marlin Jackson will be a free safety in the NFL. You can quote me on that.

He played ONE year at safety (and then only because U-M had too many CBs and almost NO safeties) and he wasn't very good... but he was consistently one of the best in the nation(if not THE best) when playing his NATURAL spot of CB.

I very much doubt you would take the best CB in the draft and switch him to safety .. that is unless WE draft him...

I will go on record now.. he is the best overall CB in this years draft or at least compared to Rolle, Jones or Rogers

--Kyle

[milkman]

He played ONE year at safety (and then only because U-M had too many CBs and almost NO safeties) and he wasn't very good... but he was consistently one of the best in the nation(if not THE best) when playing his NATURAL spot of CB.

I very much doubt you would take the best CB in the draft and switch him to safety .. that is unless WE draft him...

I will go on record now.. he is the best overall CB in this years draft or at least compared to Rolle, Jones or Rogers

--Kyle

That's what I got from the scouting reports.

It sounds like he excels in physical man coverage, but flounders in space.

Maybe he loses concentration.

[Mr. Laz]

Marlin Jackson - Michigan
Cornerback - Ranked #5

Height: 6'0"
Weight: 198 lbs.
40: 4.59 - Combine

Stats:
2001: 47 Tackles 6 PBU 3 INT
2002: 51 Tackles 18 PBU 3 INT
2003: 50 Tackles 4 PBU 2 INT
2004: 47 Tackles 5 PBU 1 INT


Marlin Jackson is a very experienced defensive back, having started 39 games between cornerback and safety in the his four years at Michigan. He considered entering the 2004 NFL draft after his junior year, but opted to return to Ann Arbor for one final season. Jackson has the combination of size, speed and athleticism you look for in an NFL corner. He has good strength and does a very good job of jamming receivers coming off the line. He has good technique in coverage as well as excellent closing speed. He is an aggressive player against the run and a solid tackler. He struggled as a junior when he was forced to play free safety but bounced back with a good senior season. He doesn't get very many interceptions, partially due to the fact that he played out of position as a junior and quarterbacks rarely threw his way as a senior. He had 41 balls thrown his way in 11 regular season games in 2004. In those 11 games he only gave up 15 receptions and 2 touchdowns as a on the year. A shoulder injury in 2003 forced him to miss four games. He had some legal probems a couple years ago but the charges were later dropped. Jackson is a top 5 corner in the 2005 NFL draft and should be a late first
or early second round pick.


by Greg Benjamin

[Mr. Laz]

Carlos Rogers - Auburn
Cornerback - Ranked #3
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 196 lbs.

40: 4.35 - Combine

Stats:
2001: 58 Tackles 12 PBU 0 INT
2002: 48 Tackles 9 PBU 4 INT
2003: 29 Tackles 9 PBU 1 INT
2004: 47 Tackles 8 PBU 2 INT


Carlos Rogers is a corner with a lot of starting experience against top competition, having started the past four seasons for the Auburn Tigers. He considered entering the 2004 NFL draft but changed his mind at the last moment, opting to return to Auburn for his senior season. He is a very physical corner with a long wingspan. He has a good combination of size and speed, although he may want to bulk up and get a little stronger to handle some of the bigger receivers in the NFL. He has a good motor and give 100% on every single play. He doesn't put up big numbers primarily because quarterbacks tend to stay away from him. He can play zone or man but he is at his best in zone coverage. He has good closing speed and excellent ball skills. His technique could use some improvement. At times he stays in his backpedal too long and he doesn't always put himself in the proper position to make a play on the ball. In man coverage he does a good job of jamming his receiver and not allowing him to get a clean release off the line. He is a hard hitter and a solid tackler. He's proven he can play well against NFL caliber talent in big games, having held Lee Evans to 50 yards receiving a 28-14 victory in the 2003 Music City bowl. He is an extremely tough player who will play through injuries to help the team. In 2003 he broke his thumb jamming a Tennessee receiver in the first quarter. He returned and played nearly the entire game, picking off a Casey Clausen pass in the 4th quarter to seal the victory for Auburn. He had surgery on the thumb the following day. Carlos Rogers is a player on the rise. He has all the tools you look for in an NFL corner and he has proven he can play at a high level against NFL caliber talent. He should be a first round pick on draft day.



by Greg Benjamin

OTC Mock Draft Status: chiefs, #15 Overall Pick
OTC Top 100 Player Rank: #7

[Mr. Laz]

i would luv to get Roger and Jackson on day 1


:drool:

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Yes. Are two Junior's worth one Ryan Sims?
push.

[dtrain]

Hypo:
The Chiefs make no other moves in free agency, nor do they trade for Surtain.

It's draft day. DJ and Rolle are off the board. Rogers, Pac Man and Pollack are still available. The phone rings, it's the Eagles. They want the number 15 pick in exchange for their 31st and 35th selection. Using the magical draft value chart, the exchange comes out 100 pts in favor of KC. Do you trade picks?

If that call comes make the deal then trade our 2nd to the Dolphins for Surtain draft best available LB, DE, or CB

[AustinChief]

The last two corners from Michigan that were on this level were Charles Woodson and Ty Law... not a bad school for top corners... and to tell the truth M-Jack plays a very similar style to the two of them.

--Kyle

[jspchief]

The last two corners from Michigan that were on this level were Charles Woodson and Ty Law... not a bad school for top corners... and to tell the truth M-Jack plays a very similar style to the two of them.

--Kyle
Ummm....the only thing Jackson has in common with Law and Woodson is his Alma Mater. He's not nearly the athlete.

I realize it's an unpopular position, but I just don't think he's that good. He's not espescially fast, he doesn't cover well in man, and doesn't have a great nose for the ball. He played in one of the weakest passing leagues in the NCAA.

[Chiefnj]

When watching the individual drills at the combine Jackson looked very athletic and refined in technique.

He's got game speed, that's for sure. I think the Chiefs have been burned too many times on a guy who runs a 4.45 in shorts only not to have cover skills and get left in the dust covering WR's who ran 4.6's.

[Skip Towne]

Jackson - 4.59 40? pretty slow for a CB. Rogers - 4.35 40 more like it.

[Frankie]

i would luv to get Roger and Jackson on day 1


:drool:
More realistically, Rogers and Green. :thumb:

[AustinChief]

Ummm....the only thing Jackson has in common with Law and Woodson is his Alma Mater. He's not nearly the athlete.

I realize it's an unpopular position, but I just don't think he's that good. He's not espescially fast, he doesn't cover well in man, and doesn't have a great nose for the ball. He played in one of the weakest passing leagues in the NCAA.

The only thing that is correct there is his lack of speed... he is a low 4.5 high 4.4 guy... but he hits harder then either of his fellow alums and is just as competitive and driven.

I don't know why you think he doesn't cover well or have a nose for the ball... he rarely had it thrown his way... I watched him play all 4 years and I have to strongly disagree.

--Kyle

[CosmicPal]

Depending upon who's remaining on the board come that pick, I wouldn't mind trading down. But, the fact is- it would never happen. We simply do not have enough money to pay the demands of two first round draft choices.

[Frankie]

Most any other year, yes I do.

Not this year. Not when a CB or LB could put us over the top. I grab the best CB on the board and hope he learns fast.

I have voted yes on this poll, albeit reluctantly. I have since decided I want Carlos Rogers too much in the 1st round to pass him up. So, mods, please adjust the poll. I'm voting no and cancelling my yes.

[milkman]

The only thing that is correct there is his lack of speed... he is a low 4.5 high 4.4 guy... but he hits harder then either of his fellow alums and is just as competitive and driven.

I don't know why you think he doesn't cover well or have a nose for the ball... he rarely had it thrown his way... I watched him play all 4 years and I have to strongly disagree.

--Kyle

A couple of the scouting reports I read had his time at 4.59, as does the report that Laz posted here.

But one of them I read also said that he had been clocked before in the low 4'4s.

It didn't expand on that, i.e. different conditions, different tracks, but I'm convinced he has enough speed, regardless.