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C-Mac
03-21-2005, 09:16 AM
Seahawks | No Longer Interested in Surtain - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:01:53 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Miami Sun-Sentinel, reports the Seattle Seahawks are no longer interested in acquiring CB Patrick Surtain from the Miami Dolphins this year after recently signing restricted free agent CB Kelly Herndon (Broncos) to an offer sheet. The Seahawks could resume interest in Surtain should the Denver Broncos decide to match Herndon's offer sheet, but it appears unlikely due to Surtain's contract demands and the trade compensation the Dolphins are seeking.

paulgkc
03-21-2005, 10:14 AM
Good news. Now if our GM would realize that his draft picks don't mean crap anyway we'd have ourselves a Pro-Bowl corner.

Dr. Johnny Fever
03-21-2005, 10:24 AM
Good news. Now if our GM would realize that his draft picks don't mean crap anyway we'd have ourselves a Pro-Bowl corner.
No shit... it's only our biggest area of need. Get the deal done damn it!

Gaz
03-21-2005, 10:26 AM
Any trade for Surtain will not happen until right before the draft; perhaps right before we pick. There is no incentive at all to get the deal done now.

Exercise some patience.

xoxo~
Gaz
Cannot see any reason why we should jump now.

eazyb81
03-21-2005, 10:33 AM
Any trade for Surtain will not happen until right before the draft; perhaps right before we pick. There is no incentive at all to get the deal done now.

Exercise some patience.

xoxo~
Gaz
Cannot see any reason why we should jump now.


Well what is the incentive to waiting until draft day? Doesn't that just prolong the process and extend the possibility of another team jumping in and trading for him out of nowhere? I would much rather get it over with and trade for him so we can all breathe easy, but I think Carl just wants to torture us.

Dr. Johnny Fever
03-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Exercise some patience.


What in my past leads you to believe I am capable of that?



:D

Gaz
03-21-2005, 10:37 AM
And which suitors are biting at the bit to surrender draft picks for Surtain and his enormous contract? Teams are dropping out of the Surtain race, not jumping in.

If Law does improve, he can bring down Surtain’s cost. As the options run out, Miami will want to get rid of Surtain’s contract and get some picks. You might be able to reduce the 2nd Rounder to a combination of lower picks.

The only value in making the deal right now is to ease the anxiety of some Chiefs fans. Sad to say, that is not worth spending money foolishly.

xoxo~
Gaz
As anxious as anyone, but not willing to overpay for relief.

The Bad Guy
03-21-2005, 10:38 AM
Any trade for Surtain will not happen until right before the draft; perhaps right before we pick. There is no incentive at all to get the deal done now.

Exercise some patience.

xoxo~
Gaz
Cannot see any reason why we should jump now.


Maybe we should jump on it now before someone else does. This is why this defense sucks, because there is zero urgency to get anything done.

The Dolphins aren't dying to unload this guy so the 2nd rounder isn't going to come down.

The problem is that the Chiefs don't want to give Surtain the going rate for 3-time Pro Bowl safeties.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 10:39 AM
What in my past leads you to believe I am capable of that?...

Good point.

xoxo~
Gaz
Forgot to take his audience into account.

The Bad Guy
03-21-2005, 10:39 AM
And which suitors are biting at the bit to surrender draft picks for Surtain and his enormous contract? Teams are dropping out of the Surtain race, not jumping in.

If Law does improve, he can bring down Surtain’s cost. As the options run out, Miami will want to get rid of Surtain’s contract and get some picks. You might be able to reduce the 2nd Rounder to a combination of lower picks.

The only value in making the deal right now is to ease the anxiety of some Chiefs fans. Sad to say, that is not worth spending money foolishly.

xoxo~
Gaz
As anxious as anyone, but not willing to overpay for relief.


It's amazing to me that you've watched the same defense I have for the last 4 years and you are preaching patience and not willing to overpay for relief.

If the Chiefs didn't overpay for Browning, Hicks, Holliday, Sims, Woods, and Wesley then we would have the resources to dramatically improve this defense the same way the Vikings did this off-season.

eazyb81
03-21-2005, 10:44 AM
And which suitors are biting at the bit to surrender draft picks for Surtain and his enormous contract? Teams are dropping out of the Surtain race, not jumping in.

If Law does improve, he can bring down Surtain’s cost. As the options run out, Miami will want to get rid of Surtain’s contract and get some picks. You might be able to reduce the 2nd Rounder to a combination of lower picks.

The only value in making the deal right now is to ease the anxiety of some Chiefs fans. Sad to say, that is not worth spending money foolishly.

xoxo~
Gaz
As anxious as anyone, but not willing to overpay for relief.


Just because a team may not be interested at this point doesn't mean they won't be interested tomorrow, next week, or next month. For example, look at the Hartwell situation, Atlanta wasn't even talked about at the beginning. I could easily see the Jets, Redskins, Raiders, Indy, Pittsburgh, St.Louis, or Green Bay getting in on this deal at the end and stealing him from us. If Surtain is our guy, why wait to make the deal? Things like this make me wonder about this organization.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 10:49 AM
I think it is going to be Surtain and I am okay with that. Better than Law, IMO. Personally, I would rather get [2] second-tier FA CBs, but I can see that is not in the cards.

But I think we have no reason to leap in and commit ourselves now. I do not believe any team wants to eat Surtain’s contract and cough up that [or those] pick[s]. The price is not going to go up.

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects a trade very close to the draft.

The Bad Guy
03-21-2005, 10:53 AM
I think it is going to be Surtain and I am okay with that. Better than Law, IMO. Personally, I would rather get [2] second-tier FA CBs, but I can see that is not in the cards.

But I think we have no reason to leap in and commit ourselves now. I do not believe any team wants to eat Surtain’s contract and cough up that [or those] pick[s]. The price is not going to go up.

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects a trade very close to the draft.


Again, your mentality of "let's pickup 2 second-tier FA CBs" is the reason our defense sucks to begin with.

When you have the 32nd ranked defense, you can't afford to go out and get 2 second-tier players. You have to get the impact guy. You have to get the stud Pro Bowler.

Surtain's price isn't going down either.

I don't see the advantages of waiting. Those who hesitate lose.

buddha
03-21-2005, 10:56 AM
The price won't keep going up, because it is already very high. The last report I read said Miami wanted a second plus a future five. That, combined with the money you would have to pay Patrick, is a large ransom. I disagree on the 2nd round pick being meaningless as some have said. True, King Carl has not done much with these picks historically, but this year there will be some very prime players drifting into the upper half of the 2nd round, with some additional linebackers, defensive ends available! I'm guessing Surtain can be had for a 3rd before it's all said and done. If not, he's not the last option!

Lzen
03-21-2005, 10:57 AM
Gaz, I have to agree with the others here. WE should get this done now.

The Bad Guy
03-21-2005, 10:59 AM
The price won't keep going up, because it is already very high. The last report I read said Miami wanted a second plus a future five. That, combined with the money you would have to pay Patrick, is a large ransom. I disagree on the 2nd round pick being meaningless as some have said. True, King Carl has not done much with these picks historically, but this year there will be some very prime players drifting into the upper half of the 2nd round, with some additional linebackers, defensive ends available! I'm guessing Surtain can be had for a 3rd before it's all said and done. If not, he's not the last option!

He's not the last option? Then who is? Ty Law?

Also, you say that top talent is drifting into the 2nd rounds, while that is true, there was top talent in the 2nd rounds of the 16 other drafts that Carl Peterson has been apart of an he managed to take 2 good picks out of those 16.

When you have less than a 15% success rate on average, you trade for the relatively young corner.

It's just a no-brainer. I'm sick of drafting these raw prospects. It's like the Chiefs think they have time to let someone develop in 3-4 years. They need someone to develop in 3-4 months.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2005, 11:02 AM
The price won't keep going up, because it is already very high. The last report I read said Miami wanted a second plus a future five. That, combined with the money you would have to pay Patrick, is a large ransom. I disagree on the 2nd round pick being meaningless as some have said. True, King Carl has not done much with these picks historically, but this year there will be some very prime players drifting into the upper half of the 2nd round, with some additional linebackers, defensive ends available! I'm guessing Surtain can be had for a 3rd before it's all said and done. If not, he's not the last option!We don't have a 3rd round pick, even if we get the a 3rd round COMPENSATORY pick, we can't trade it. We wwere willing to a give a 3rd and a 5th for Surtain, but not willing to give up a 2nd rounder for a 3-time top-tier CB?


35 YEARS of PATIENCE is long enough.

buddha
03-21-2005, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE=BigChiefFan]We don't have a 3rd round pick, even if we get the a 3rd round COMPENSATORY pick, we can't trade it. We wwere willing to a give a 3rd and a 5th for Surtain, but not willing to give up a 2nd rounder for a 3-time top-tier CB?QUOTE]

I didn't say that the pick had to be in this year's draft. That's what makes the Chiefs' 2nd round pick that much more valuable, if you ask me. If it was just a matter of trading the 2nd, I'd be in favor of doing it. However, Miami wants a 5th to go along with it and guys like Jared Allen are still there in the 5th.

I want Surtain as much as any of you, but he's one player...one player who could pull his hamstring next season and be worthless. KC needs multiple impact players on defense. If they play their hand smartly, they can get both.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2005, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=BigChiefFan]We don't have a 3rd round pick, even if we get the a 3rd round COMPENSATORY pick, we can't trade it. We wwere willing to a give a 3rd and a 5th for Surtain, but not willing to give up a 2nd rounder for a 3-time top-tier CB?QUOTE]

I didn't say that the pick had to be in this year's draft. That's what makes the Chiefs' 2nd round pick that much more valuable, if you ask me. If it was just a matter of trading the 2nd, I'd be in favor of doing it. However, Miami wants a 5th to go along with it and guys like Jared Allen are still there in the 5th.

I want Surtain as much as any of you, but he's one player...one player who could pull his hamstring next season and be worthless. KC needs multiple impact players on defense. If they play their hand smartly, they can get both.We have 10 picks and almost a FULL roster. We need quality, not 5th rounder who may or may not contribute next year. I agree, don't give up the farm, but a 2nd rounder and a 5th for Surtain is well worth it. Surtain is PROVEN. A 5th rounder is a crap shoot.

The Bad Guy
03-21-2005, 11:15 AM
[QUOTE=BigChiefFan]We don't have a 3rd round pick, even if we get the a 3rd round COMPENSATORY pick, we can't trade it. We wwere willing to a give a 3rd and a 5th for Surtain, but not willing to give up a 2nd rounder for a 3-time top-tier CB?QUOTE]

I didn't say that the pick had to be in this year's draft. That's what makes the Chiefs' 2nd round pick that much more valuable, if you ask me. If it was just a matter of trading the 2nd, I'd be in favor of doing it. However, Miami wants a 5th to go along with it and guys like Jared Allen are still there in the 5th.

I want Surtain as much as any of you, but he's one player...one player who could pull his hamstring next season and be worthless. KC needs multiple impact players on defense. If they play their hand smartly, they can get both.

What other impact players are available?

The logic on this BB baffles me.

He's one player that makes this defense MUCH better and actually semi-respectable

That 2nd round pick will likely be a raw player like Siavii, Bartee, Eddie Freeman, who would make little contribution.

The sad thing is, Carl Peterson thinks like some of the patience-preachers on this board. This is also the reason KC hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years.

beavis
03-21-2005, 11:17 AM
What other impact players are available?

The logic on this BB baffles me.

He's one player that makes this defense MUCH better and actually semi-respectable

That 2nd round pick will likely be a raw player like Siavii, Bartee, Eddie Freeman, who would make little contribution.

The sad thing is, Carl Peterson thinks like some of the patience-preachers on this board. This is also the reason KC hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years.
Come on man. Just drink the Kool-Aid. It tastes great.

PHOG
03-21-2005, 11:23 AM
I thought I read somewhere that CP didn't have a problem with the 2nd RD pick.. :shrug:

It was the compensation that was the hanging point? :hmmm:

Gaz
03-21-2005, 11:23 AM
Here is the crux of our disagreement:

I think CBs are overvalued under the current rules. Some folks disagree.

IF I believed that CBs are as crucial as they used to be [I do not] and IF I believed that Surtain was the best CB available [I do] and IF I thought that other teams were desperate to absorb his contract [I do not] and IF I thought that other teams were eager to give up draft picks for him [I do not], then I would be a lot more interested in signing him now, now, now.

As it is, I am content to wait, wait, wait.

xoxo~
Gaz
Fully expects to see Surtain’s name on the roster after the draft.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2005, 12:02 PM
Here is the crux of our disagreement:

I think CBs are overvalued under the current rules. Some folks disagree.

IF I believed that CBs are as crucial as they used to be [I do not] and IF I believed that Surtain was the best CB available [I do] and IF I thought that other teams were desperate to absorb his contract [I do not] and IF I thought that other teams were eager to give up draft picks for him [I do not], then I would be a lot more interested in signing him now, now, now.

As it is, I am content to wait, wait, wait.

xoxo~
Gaz
Fully expects to see Surtain’s name on the roster after the draft.

There's the word:CONTENT. After 35 tears of WAITING enough is enough. The FO has MORE of a sense of urgency than even you do, evidenced by actually adding some outside talent in Bell and Knight. I think those players are a good start, however in no way should they rest on their laurels and be content with what they have done. It isn't enough. Adding some rookie talent could HELP, but it certainly isn't the solution to this year's defense improving by leaps and bounds. It's also dependent on the FO actually drafting Rolle, Rogers, Jackson, ect...

I PREFER the PROVEN VETERAN in Surtain to help in molding that young corner that we SHOULD draft as well. Surtain, IMO is the second only to Ty Law in CB skills and with Law's injury that makes him NUMERO UNO in the entire NFL, that's certainly worth a 2nd rounder, to say the least.

Why be content when our CBs currently consist of Bartee, McCleon, Sapp, and Battle on opening day? If that doesn't scream "DON'T Be CONTENT", I don't know what does.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 12:13 PM
BigChiefFan-

You misread.

I said I am content to wait for a Surtain signing.

I did not say nor even imply that I am content with the state of the Chiefs Defense.

Context is everything, bud.

xoxo~
Gaz
Parsing it out.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2005, 12:20 PM
BigChiefFan-

You misread.

I said I am content to wait for a Surtain signing.

I did not say nor even imply that I am content with the state of the Chiefs Defense.

Context is everything, bud.

xoxo~
Gaz
Parsing it out.

IF they land Surtain, the waiting game is just that, however, I see no sound reasoning on wanting to wait.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 12:23 PM
IF they land Surtain, the waiting game is just that, however, I see no sound reasoning on wanting to wait.

I gave my reasons for waiting. You disagree with them.

I can live with that.

xoxo~
Gaz
Agrees to disagree.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-21-2005, 12:33 PM
And which suitors are biting at the bit to surrender draft picks for Surtain and his enormous contract? Teams are dropping out of the Surtain race, not jumping in.

If Law does improve, he can bring down Surtain’s cost. As the options run out, Miami will want to get rid of Surtain’s contract and get some picks. You might be able to reduce the 2nd Rounder to a combination of lower picks.

The only value in making the deal right now is to ease the anxiety of some Chiefs fans. Sad to say, that is not worth spending money foolishly.

xoxo~
Gaz
As anxious as anyone, but not willing to overpay for relief.


From the posts I've been reading from you today, I am starting to believe that you are Rufas Dawes in disguise :ROFL:

C-Mac
03-21-2005, 01:29 PM
I thought I read somewhere that CP didn't have a problem with the 2nd RD pick.. :shrug:

It was the compensation that was the hanging point? :hmmm:

Your eyes and comprehending are accurate......the contract is the issue.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 01:32 PM
From the posts I've been reading from you today, I am starting to believe that you are Rufas Dawes in disguise :ROFL:

Let me respond with a hearty “thank you” or “bite me.”

Whichever is appropriate.

xoxo~
Gaz
Unsure if he’s been flattered or insulted.

Bowser
03-21-2005, 01:35 PM
Let me respond with a hearty “thank you” or “bite me.”

Whichever is appropriate.

xoxo~
Gaz
Unsure if he’s been flattered or insulted.


You should just beat him down, Gaz.

Gaz
03-21-2005, 01:36 PM
You should just beat him down, Gaz.

Hey, it could have been a compliment…

xoxo~
Gaz
Holding out hope.

Archie Bunker
03-21-2005, 01:52 PM
IMO the Chiefs are putting all of their eggs into the Surtain/Law basket. If they did not think they would get one of them I would think guys like Dyson, Hill, and Edwards would be parading into Arrowhead.

I just hope that their gamble pays off because if Surtain and Law go elsewhere and the other 3 have signed by then it is going to be a long year.