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Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 10:15 AM
Okay, NOW.....with Surtain in the fold, will the Chiefs still draft a CB in the first if one of the big three are there? I don't think so....

Will they go:

1. OLB
2. DE
3. WR
4. trade-down in the first, to re-acquire a 2nd round pick???

I choose "4"....then pick BAA OLB, WR, or DE (in that order.)

:hmmm:

Coogs
04-22-2005, 10:21 AM
ESPN ran a draft on TV last night. Mike Williams went after our pick at 15. My guess is that if he is still there at 15, AS and GC may get in a fist fight with DV taking AS's side. Could be interesting tomorrow.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 10:21 AM
This year they can't afford to trade down. We won't get anyone that can help either side of the ball this year, IMO, possibly. I think we should get Rogers if available, if not, then get BPA with the #15 pick, offense or defense, a player that can help the team out this year, and on. JMO.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 10:23 AM
ESPN ran a draft on TV last night. Mike Williams went after our pick at 15. My guess is that if he is still there at 15, AS and GC may get in a fist fight with DV taking AS's side. Could be interesting tomorrow.

Williams doesn't fit the AS/DV WR mode. If we take a WR, it'll be Troy Williamson out of SC.

Coogs
04-22-2005, 10:26 AM
Williams doesn't fit the AS/DV WR mode. If we take a WR, it'll be Troy Williamson out of SC.

Williams doesn't fit the mode, but Boerighter does? :huh:

Andoverer
04-22-2005, 10:26 AM
I'll go with 3. I don't think you want to stand pat even with our offense. It needs a new wrinkle and if Mike Williams or Troy Williamson are there, I can see us grabbing one of the two. But then I could live with getting Thomas Davis.

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 10:26 AM
1) Rodgers, if not available
2) Davis, if not available
3) Trade Down if possible, if not
4) Curl into fetal position and cry when they take Erasumus Jones.

I still want another CB to feel "comfortable" with the secondary (especially if Warfield ends up suspended). If Rodgers and Davis are gone, I think they can help themselves more by trading down and picking up CB(s) OLB(s) in the later part of day 1.

Frankie
04-22-2005, 10:28 AM
QB Aaron Rogers might be available. Though I have negative vibes about him.

Mr. Laz
04-22-2005, 10:29 AM
if carlos rogers,antrel rolle or derrick johnson are there at 15 we grab them.

if not we try and trade down


i bet the chiefs have a serious eye on WR Mark Clayton from Oklahoma

Frankie
04-22-2005, 10:29 AM
I think if all 3 corners are gone by the 14th, we'll trade down. That could actually be good.

Brock
04-22-2005, 10:30 AM
i bet the chiefs have a serious eye on WR Mark Clayton from Oklahoma

It wouldn't surprise me. The guy seems kind of small, though.

Frankie
04-22-2005, 10:30 AM
Damn you Laz.... You did it again!

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 10:32 AM
if carlos rogers,antrel rolle or derrick johnson are there at 15 we grab them.[/B]

I forgot about DJ (mainly because I don't expect he or Rodgers to be there), move him into option 1 in my reply and the rest down respecively.

ChiefsOne
04-22-2005, 10:35 AM
I think we are set in the secondary. We need a stud LB and DE.

Hell, I am so happy with the Surtain deal I wouldn't care if they drafted O-line!

Andoverer
04-22-2005, 10:35 AM
I forgot about DJ (mainly because I don't expect he or Rodgers to be there), move him into option 1 in my reply and the rest down respecively.

Well that goes without saying. Yes you're absolutely right.

jcroft
04-22-2005, 10:36 AM
I think a trade down is most likley. If one of these guys is there, though, they would be very tempting:

A. Rolle
A. Jones
C. Rogers
D. Johnson
M. Williams

Spicy McHaggis
04-22-2005, 10:37 AM
It wouldn't surprise me. The guy seems kind of small, though.

Marvin Harrison small :hmmm:

I actually still want to go D with our 1st. DJ (if he was there), Davis, Pollack and Rogers all should be solid at the least in the pros. I don't see why any of them couldn't contribute significantly this year either or even start in the case of DJ or Davis.

ct
04-22-2005, 10:38 AM
if carlos rogers,antrel rolle or derrick johnson are there at 15 we grab them.

if not we try and trade down


i bet the chiefs have a serious eye on WR Mark Clayton from Oklahoma

Agree completely!! Well almost, they may have an eye on Clayton, but I've heard nada that it's strong enough to take him over another solid defensive prospect fitting a need.

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 10:39 AM
I'm pretty sure everybody wouldn't mind trading down at this point, but I'm not sure a deal can be made in this year's draft to move down. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to move up, especially to the middle of the first round.

Does anybody really think that there is a deal that can be done with enough value for both teams for this to happen?

KC Dan
04-22-2005, 10:41 AM
I will go out on a weak limb and say they will, couple a 3rd or 4th with the #15 if Williams is still there at #10, move up and take him. I think CP will take defense in later rounds. I think they are more content now they have Bell, Surtain, and Knight. Remeber this is still an offense mind-set team. Just a possibility I throw out.

If that doesn't pan, they will trade down.

ct
04-22-2005, 10:41 AM
By the way, didn't anyone else catch DV's comment about McCleon? That he would love to move Dex into the Nickel slot, which is what they hired him to do anyway? IMO, sadly, this destroys all hope of selecting a CB @15. Maybe if we move down, then a Jackson, Miller, Green provides good value to do it, but I see us now looking OLB or DE at 15, else move down with a team looking at Davis.

jcroft
04-22-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm pretty sure everybody wouldn't mind trading down at this point, but I'm not sure a deal can be made in this year's draft to move down. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to move up, especially to the middle of the first round.

Does anybody really think that there is a deal that can be done with enough value for both teams for this to happen?

I think you're probably right. I think we just need to hope that someone considered to be a top-ten player slips to us. That way we have a good pick if we need to make one, and there is a chance someone will want to trade into our spot to take that guy.

We'll just have to see...

CosmicPal
04-22-2005, 10:43 AM
The number one choice, should he be available is LB Derrick Johnson. This is not a strong draft for LBs, but there is a guy, can't remember his name right now, but he's from San Diego State- and he's rising up the charts, but I doubt he'll be available in the third.

#2 Carlos Rogers or Pac Man Jones - even with Surtain on board, our need for CB still runs deep.

#3 Thomas Davis - He is the one who will most likely be still available- has a lot of upside and plays defense like a defender should.

#4 Demarcus Ware - Dallas covets him and I wouldn't be surprised if they picked him up, but he, like Davis, have a lot of upside and play great defense no matter where they line up.

If none of these guys are available- trade down a few slots and pick up a second and maybe pick up Fabian Washington or Marlin Jackson. Jackson would be an absolute steal- you have to remember this guy practiced every day against Braylon Edwards and his opposing QB's only threw something like 33 percent of their passes Jackson's way.

eazyb81
04-22-2005, 10:45 AM
THOMAS DAVIS


once again, THOMAS DAVIS

Arrowhead Nation
04-22-2005, 10:48 AM
Hey all longtime lurker, first time poster.........

I go this way.....

1. Thomas Davis
2. if not there, Derrick Johnson
3. if both are gone, Mark CLayton
4. trade down

Yes I did say Davis over DJ.

eazyb81
04-22-2005, 10:49 AM
I'm pretty sure everybody wouldn't mind trading down at this point, but I'm not sure a deal can be made in this year's draft to move down. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to move up, especially to the middle of the first round.

Does anybody really think that there is a deal that can be done with enough value for both teams for this to happen?

Philly has 13 picks this year and there have been many rumors with them wanting to trade up. I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade down with Philly and get their #31 and #35 in return to recoup the lost 2nd.

MGRS13
04-22-2005, 10:49 AM
I'm pretty sure everybody wouldn't mind trading down at this point, but I'm not sure a deal can be made in this year's draft to move down. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to move up
Some one will drop down on draft day that some other team is convinced is the second coming. Moves go fast and furious on draft day trust me some one will want to make a deal. I say stand pat though at 15 and take Thomas Davis.

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 10:52 AM
Also, speaking of trading up there's a couple of hurdles there as well:

1) Can they now that they've traded the 2nd (I can't seem to get the value chart to open for me)?

2) With who? They'd probably have to move to roughly 7-10 to get DJ. At 10, you have the Lions, who may be interested in Alex Smith IF he falls that far, but I'm hearing they also have an interest in DJ or one of the CBs. Seems unlikely they'd deal. At 9 the Skins sound like they want Rodgers, so they also seem unlikely to want to deal. At 8, Arizona seems to be shaping up to add BA Def., again, unlikely to want to trade. At 7 the Vikes are probably going to take a reciever...it's unlikely that one they want will still be around at 15.

I'm not even sure the 2nd was high enough for anyone to really want to trade down for it in the first place. All in all, it seems that the middle of the first round is a royally shitty place to be this year.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 10:53 AM
if carlos rogers,antrel rolle or derrick johnson are there at 15 we grab them.

if not we try and trade down


i bet the chiefs have a serious eye on WR Mark Clayton from Oklahoma

That's my take....although, I like Davis enough that if he is there, I think we should grab him.

Clayton might be the best bet of any 1st Round Offensive player, to make a quick impact....but I'd hate to take him at 15.

Frosty
04-22-2005, 10:53 AM
I said on another thread that I fully expect CP to make a WTF move like an offensive tackle.

I think the top 3 corners and top two receivers will be gone as well as DJ. I also think that someone (the Saints) will jump right in front of the Chiefs and take Davis. If that happens, it would be ideal IMHO to trade back a few spots and take Clayton, Jackson, Pollack or Roth. Clayton wouldn't be a reach a reach at #15 but it would be nice to pick up a few more picks.

Mr. Laz
04-22-2005, 10:55 AM
Hey all longtime lurker, first time poster.........

I go this way.....

1. Thomas Davis
2. if not there, Derrick Johnson
3. if both are gone, Mark CLayton
4. trade down

Yes I did say Davis over DJ.

Welcome to ya, Mr. Lurker


Rep :thumb:

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 10:56 AM
Philly has 13 picks this year and there have been many rumors with them wanting to trade up. I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade down with Philly and get their #31 and #35 in return to recoup the lost 2nd.

Thank you. THAT would definitely be acceptable if DJ, Rodgers, and Davis are unavailable.

Given this year's talent pool, I'm still unsure that I personally would be willing to trade the 31 and 35 to move to 15, but I'm all for it if it plays out that way.

Frankie
04-22-2005, 10:57 AM
#4 Demarcus Ware - Dallas covets him and I wouldn't be surprised if they picked him up, but he, like Davis, have a lot of upside and play great defense no matter where they line up.
If he gets by Dallas, I think we may be able to trade down a few spots and still get him. He would be an intriguing choice, I admit.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 11:07 AM
I'm pretty sure everybody wouldn't mind trading down at this point, but I'm not sure a deal can be made in this year's draft to move down. Doesn't seem like anyone wants to move up, especially to the middle of the first round.

Does anybody really think that there is a deal that can be done with enough value for both teams for this to happen?

Here's the type of scenario I can imagine:

A team in the 23-30 range sees a player they didn't imagine they really had a shot at, STILL ON THE BOARD at 12 or 13.....gets together with the Chiefs....offers their 1st & 2nd round picks to move up 10 spots or so (fair value, according to the Draft value chart).....

GB, Indy, ATL, Pitt, Philly are probably our best bets:

GB, Indy and ATL might be interested in Pollack; Pitt and Philly might be interested in Williams or Williamson.....

I can see somethin' like that comin' down. :hmmm:

ct
04-22-2005, 11:11 AM
The number one choice, should he be available is LB Derrick Johnson. This is not a strong draft for LBs, but there is a guy, can't remember his name right now, but he's from San Diego State- and he's rising up the charts, but I doubt he'll be available in the third.
...

Matt(?) McCoy

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 11:14 AM
Here's the type of scenario I can imagine:

A team in the 23-30 range sees a player they didn't imagine they really had a shot at, STILL ON THE BOARD at 12 or 13.....gets together with the Chiefs....offers their 1st & 2nd round picks to move up 10 spots or so (fair value, according to the Draft value chart).....

GB, Indy, ATL, Pitt, Philly are probably our best bets:

GB, Indy and ATL might be interested in Pollack; Pitt and Philly might be interested in Williams or Williamson.....

I can see somethin' like that comin' down. :hmmm:

If everyone (defensively...I still don't think they can afford to go offense in the first round, though if Williamson is still there I'd at least be on the fence) they're interested in is gone, I'd be happy (ecstatic, probably) to do the trade down with Philly (31, 35) or, to a lesser extent, hope that Aaron Rodgers has fallen far enough to still be around and get the Packers 24 and 58.

ct
04-22-2005, 11:15 AM
Here's the type of scenario I can imagine:

A team in the 23-30 range sees a player they didn't imagine they really had a shot at, STILL ON THE BOARD at 12 or 13.....gets together with the Chiefs....offers their 1st & 2nd round picks to move up 10 spots or so (fair value, according to the Draft value chart).....

GB, Indy, ATL, Pitt, Philly are probably our best bets:

GB, Indy and ATL might be interested in Pollack; Pitt and Philly might be interested in Williams or Williamson.....

I can see somethin' like that comin' down. :hmmm:

This would be terrific for me. Several good defensive candidates in that range of the 1st OR 2nd(we could go Clayton then OLB Burnett in the 2nd)

Braincase
04-22-2005, 11:23 AM
4. Trade down to get a 2nd, then pickup Blackstock and the best WR available in the 2nd round.

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 11:28 AM
Matt(?) McCoy

Yup...I was thinking he was being projected as late day 1/early day 2, so he could still be around in the 3rd.

A concern with him is he played at 220 in college (he really plays bigger than that), but he's up to around 235 now IIRC. I suppose if there's interest, the scouting dept. should know if he can still play with the added weight. That's what they get paid for, right?

The Chiefs scouting department does get paid, don't they?

Hydrae
04-22-2005, 11:36 AM
4. Trade down to get a 2nd, then pickup Blackstock and the best WR available in the 2nd round.


Works for me. :thumb:

the Talking Can
04-22-2005, 11:40 AM
yeah, I think the only way we can trade down is if a player falls that no one expects, like Williams or Merriman...then we'd have some leverage

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Williams doesn't fit the mode, but Boerighter does? :huh:

Mike Williams is a 4.6 WR. Boe is a 4.4 maybe high 4.3 WR. Although that could change this year because of the injury he suffered. Hopefully he still has the speed. If not right away, hopefully he regains it.

KChiefs1
04-22-2005, 11:45 AM
Soren Petro just selected Eramus James with the Chiefs pick...I guess that's better than Eramus Jones though. :banghead:

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 11:48 AM
I think if all 3 corners are gone by the 14th, we'll trade down. That could actually be good.

Even if all 3 CBs are gone, we should stay put. We'll get a better player, offensively or defensively, if we stay put. I don't care about the abundance of picks we could possibly pick up, it's just a couple more players that won't be that good here in KC. So we need to pickup the best at #15. The only reason we should trade is we are trading up, for a better player. Just because you get more picks doesn't mean you get even more better players, at least when it comes to the Chiefs, the chances aren't that high.

Stay at 15.

Coogs
04-22-2005, 11:52 AM
Mike Williams is a 4.6 WR. Boe is a 4.4 maybe high 4.3 WR. Although that could change this year because of the injury he suffered. Hopefully he still has the speed. If not right away, hopefully he regains it.

And Mike Williams is a 1st round talent and a true #1 WR. Boe... no on the first part, and very, very doubtful on the second.

Profile or not, Williams would be here long after DV is gone.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 11:55 AM
And Mike Williams is a 1st round talent and a true #1 WR. Boe... no on the first part, and very, very doubtful on the second.

Profile or not, Williams would be here long after DV is gone.

I'm 40/60 thinking that DV will draft a WR. Something just tells me. But hopefully it's Williamson, instead of Williams, if it's going to be a WR with that pick.

ChiefsCountry
04-22-2005, 12:11 PM
First don't be suprised if Kansas City takes Fabian Washington at 15. I hope not but it doesn't suprise me.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 12:28 PM
This would be terrific for me. Several good defensive candidates in that range of the 1st OR 2nd(we could go Clayton then OLB Burnett in the 2nd)

I'd be really pumpted if, IF, we went OLB/DE in a 1st & 2nd rounds in a trade-down scenario....I don't think we are likely to have an "impact starter" available for us at 15.....I'm thinking Rolle, Rogers, and Davis are gonna be gone....

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 12:29 PM
First don't be suprised if Kansas City takes Fabian Washington at 15. I hope not but it doesn't suprise me.

Nah.....maybe in the late 20s, in a trade-down....but they won't take him at 15, will they? :(

Thig Lyfe
04-22-2005, 12:29 PM
Mike Williams would be great but might not have the speed for the Chiefs system. I would draft him based on pure talent.

ChiefsCountry
04-22-2005, 12:32 PM
Nah.....maybe in the late 20s, in a trade-down....but they won't take him at 15, will they? :(

Remember this is the Chiefs. Last night on ESPN, Washington said KC, St. Louis, and Jax were looking at him the most.

Chest Rockwell
04-22-2005, 12:42 PM
I'd be really pumpted if, IF, we went OLB/DE in a 1st & 2nd rounds in a trade-down scenario....I don't think we are likely to have an "impact starter" available for us at 15.....I'm thinking Rolle, Rogers, and Davis are gonna be gone....

I'm with you there. I'd still like to see someone taken who can play Nickle at sometime this year, and has the ability to be a starter within the next couple.

If they take Washington at 15, I'll react much like if they take 'Rasmus. The only question would be, fetal position or repeatedly punching myself in the nuts.

Spicy McHaggis
04-22-2005, 12:43 PM
First don't be suprised if Kansas City takes Fabian Washington at 15. I hope not but it doesn't suprise me.

Noooooooooooo. The slight feeling of tolerance towards Carl would go out the window if he made that pick.

bringbackmarty
04-22-2005, 12:50 PM
I think we are set in the secondary. We need a stud LB and DE.

Hell, I am so happy with the Surtain deal I wouldn't care if they drafted O-line!
well get ready, cause thats what is gonna happen.

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 01:04 PM
DJ, Merriman, and Davis are my preferences

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 01:06 PM
well get ready, cause thats what is gonna happen.

I don't think so; there ARE 2 or 3, 5th-6th-7th round OL choices, that have some real upside....if we wanna groom a replacement for Roaf/Shields.....

Edubs
04-22-2005, 01:27 PM
It wouldn't surprise me. The guy seems kind of small, though.


ohhh man I would love to have him on our team. I think he is a tough SOB that has great hands.......even though he is a Sooner.

HC_Chief
04-22-2005, 01:27 PM
Soren Petro just selected Eramus James with the Chiefs pick...I guess that's better than Eramus Jones though. :banghead:

I like the Erasmus James pick. If Carlos Rogers is off the board, E James would be my pick. (No way in hell does Derrick Johnson fall to #15)

HolmeZz
04-22-2005, 01:28 PM
I'll take Pac Man, Merriman, or Thomas Davis. I'm big on all 3 of them right now.

CoMoChief
04-22-2005, 01:31 PM
Williams doesn't fit the AS/DV WR mode. If we take a WR, it'll be Troy Williamson out of SC.

How does a guy like Williams not fit the scheme, but guys like Holt and Bruce do?

BigChiefFan
04-22-2005, 01:32 PM
Trade down and pick up Marlin Jackson and Daryl Blackstock or stay put and get Pollack. I can't wait for the draft!!!

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Trade down and pick up Marlin Jackson and Daryl Blackstock or stay put and get Pollack. I can't wait for the draft!!!

No :shake:

CoMoChief
04-22-2005, 01:36 PM
Trade down and pick up Marlin Jackson and Daryl Blackstock or stay put and get Pollack. I can't wait for the draft!!!

How would we do that?

Mr. Laz
04-22-2005, 01:38 PM
How would we do that?
i think he's talking about trading down in the 1st round to recoup our trade 2nd pick.

jackson in the 1st, blaystock in the (recouped) 2nd



not that i agree... just that's what he's thinking IMO

HolmeZz
04-22-2005, 01:39 PM
If we traded with Philly, Jackson and Blackstock would be a possibility. Stay away from Pollack though.

ct
04-22-2005, 01:40 PM
How does a guy like Williams not fit the scheme, but guys like Holt and Bruce do?

Holt and Bruce are quick cutters and straight speed, and run crisp routes, where as Williams is not fast or quick and rounds off his routes.

DISCLAIMER!!!
...from what I've read, not first hand witness.

ct
04-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Trade down and pick up Marlin Jackson and Daryl Blackstock or stay put and get Pollack. I can't wait for the draft!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

We have a winner!!! But if and only if DJ and CR are off the board, as expected. Any surprise that 1 is there, snatch em up!

BigChiefFan
04-22-2005, 01:44 PM
i think he's talking about trading down in the 1st round to recoup our trade 2nd pick.

jackson in the 1st, blaystock in the (recouped) 2nd



not that i agree... just that's what he's thinking IMO
Yep.

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 01:48 PM
If KC trades down I'll be pissed because they need quality not a one dimensional specailist or an injury ridden CB. :# :cuss:

Coogs
04-22-2005, 01:57 PM
Just tossing out another trade down scenario using the Philly 31/35 model. There would possibly be a couple of DT/DE combos that might make a lot of sense at this point too.

At the DT spots in this range are Mike Patterson from USC and Luis Castillo from Northwestern.

And at DE in this area would be Justin Tuck from Northwestern and Matt Roth from Iowa.

Mixing and matching a pair from this foursome might do more to the overall fix of our defense at this point than anything else we could add early in the draft tomorrow.

Just a thought.

MahiMike
04-22-2005, 02:00 PM
Ok, 4 guys in free agency to one side of the ball. You can't get much better than that. Props to Carl for getting this done before the draft.

Now let's not get too tipsy and move the talent too much the other way. Kennison and Morton are a combined 69 years old! Let's get one of them shiny new WR's at 15. I like either USC player; Mike Williams or the speedy kid from the East coast USC.

picasso
04-22-2005, 02:00 PM
If we traded with Philly, Jackson and Blackstock would be a possibility. Stay away from Pollack though.

What is wrong with Pollack? (other than his size)

Coogs
04-22-2005, 02:00 PM
from nfl.com, here is the scoop on Patterson...

Prospect Profiles


Michael Patterson
Position: Defensive Tackle
College: Southern California
Height: 5-11
Weight: 292
Hometown: Los Alamitos, Calif.

Analysis | Injury Report | Agility | High School | Personal


OVERVIEW
One of the premier nose guards in the collegiate ranks, Mike Patterson was nicknamed "Baby Sapp," as his style of play is very similar to that of Oakland's Warren Sapp. Both rely on their suddenness off the snap, instincts and aggression to make plays in the backfield, despite yielding considerable bulk and size to the offensive linemen. Patterson teamed with Shaun Cody to give the Trojans the premier tackle tandem in college football: both garnered first-team All-American honors as seniors.

Patterson moved to the Los Angeles area as a high school sophomore to live with a cousin and his family. The All-CIF wrestler and defensive tackle earned PrepStar and Super Prep All-American honors as a senior at Los Alamitos (Calif.) High. He recorded 94 tackles with seven sacks and 18 stops behind the line of scrimmage in his final prep season.

He arrived on the Southern California campus in 2001 and expected to redshirt, but injuries forced him on to the field as a reserve defensive tackle for the team's final 11 games. Patterson struggled a bit to adapt to classroom work and the playbook during his first year at USC, but made considerable strides over the course of his career. He finished his rookie year with only nine tackles, but registered three sacks, five stops for losses and caused and recovered two fumbles.

Patterson started the first six games of the 2002 campaign at nose guard before shifting to tackle for the next four games, then moved back to nose for the final three contests. He totaled 37 tackles (27 solo) with 5 sacks, 11 stops for losses and four fumble recoveries.

During the Trojans' march for a share of the national title in 2003, Patterson had a career-high 55 tackles (36 solo) with seven sacks, 13 stops for losses of 61 yards and returned three fumble recoveries for 68 yards. Those figures earned the nose guard first-team All-Pac-10 Conference honors.

As he entered his senior year, Patterson was the subject of constant double-team coverage. Despite those stacked odds, it was he doing the stacking (and disengaging) at the line of scrimmage, as he earned consensus All-American and All-Pac-10 Conference honors as a senior. He recorded 45 tackles (25 solo) with six sacks, a team-high 16 stops behind the line of scrimmage, two forced fumbles, a conference-high four fumble recoveries and two pass deflections.

The three-year starter finished his career with 146 tackles (96 solo), 21 sacks for minus-139 yards, 46 stops for losses of 213 yards, four forced fumbles, 13 fumble recoveries (team record) and three pass break-ups.


ANALYSIS
Patterson has excellent quickness and plays with recklessness and an aggressive style. He shows good pursuit speed to cover ground from sideline to sideline. Might be a little too short to play the two-gap system, but his explosion, long arms and strength make him ideal to handle the trash and double teams at nose guard.

Patterson plays very quick in the short area, as his clocked 40-yard speed indicates. Does a very good job of avoiding blockers and making plays. In the past, he needed to use his hands more to shed quicker, but showed marked improvement in this area as a senior. Now uses his hands effectively to hit and shed, moving down the line to make the play.

Can anchor and read, doing a nice job of taking a side to beat the blocker or attack the gap. When he is quick to spot the plays, he reacts well to blocking schemes and is stout at the point of attack, consistently getting leverage and getting his feet free. At times, Mike will run underneath blockers and that causes him to take a bad angle, causing him to then has to chase down the ball carrier from behind. Plays with a high motor and is quick and sudden coming off the edge of a blocker. His brute strength (Patterson earned several weight lifting honors with the Trojans) and wrestling experience makes him a very disruptive force, as he gets a lot of his tackles (one-third) in the backfield.

He keeps a low center of gravity vs. the run and can anchor and neutralize with his lower-body strength and very long arms. Extremely difficult to block one-on-one because of his power and low pad level. Physical hitter, wraps up strongly and is a good pass rusher with above-average foot speed to fight through traffic en route to the quarterback. A little slow recognizing the run and pass, but has the foot speed to get there once he spots the play.

Patterson shows a great short-area burst and has good change-of-direction skills. Gets adequate depth dropping back in zone coverage and breaks on the ball well, but struggles with his man-to-man cover skills, resulting in him generally being replaced in nickel situations. Can easily beat the single block with his speed and power. Effective pushing the pocket if the center attempts to block him and can also do it when the center gets help. Will rip or swim off the bull rush and has a very good burst to push and close the pocket. Patterns his play and is even nicknamed "Baby Sapp," in honor of Warren Sapp, but his backfield penetration agility is superior to that of the once-dominant Oakland Raider.


INJURY REPORT
No injuries reported.


AGILITY
4.83 in the 40-yard dash 520-pound bench press 700-pound squat; 410-pound power clean 34-inch vertical jump 9-foot-9 broad jump 32-inch arm length 9-inch hands Right-handed.


HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Los Alamitos (Cal.) High. Earned Prep Star All-American, SuperPrep All-Far West, Prep Star All-Western Region, Long Beach Press-Telegram Best of the West second team, Los Angeles Times All-Orange County, Orange County Register All-Orange County first-team, Long Beach Press-Telegram Dream Team first-team and All-Sunset League honors as a senior Posted 94 tackles, 18 stops for losses and seven sacks in 2000 As a junior, his honors included All-CIF Division VI Defensive MVP, Long Beach Press-Telegram Dream Team second-team and All-Sunset League first-team honors Patterson also was an All-CIF wrestler at Los Alamitos.


PERSONAL
Sociology major His family lived in Sacramento, but he moved south and lived with relatives in order to play football at Los Alamitos High His sports hero is NFL star Warren Sapp. "He's my favorite player, for sure," Patterson said. "He was one of the short guys and we have similar body types. He worked very hard and now he is one of the best. So that's who I try to emulate. I try to work really hard to be the best. We have different attitudes, but I love the way he plays. But I don't hear the 'Baby Sapp' nickname much anymore. It's almost like I'm finally making a name for myself." Born Sept. 1, 1983 Resides in Los Alamitos, Calif.

Coogs
04-22-2005, 02:02 PM
Castillo...

Luis Castillo
Position: Defensive Tackle/Nose Guard
College: Northwestern
Height: 6-3
Weight: 306
Hometown: Garfield, N.J.

Analysis | Injury Report | Agility | High School | Personal


OVERVIEW
Castillo became only the fourth player in school history to earn both All-America and Academic All-America honors in the same season. The Northwestern coaching staff says he is as good as any other defensive linemen in the Big Ten Conference, citing Castillo's unlimited potential, great work ethic, tremendous attitude and good strength level. He immigrated to the United States from the Dominican Republic as a child, settling in Garfield, N.J. with his mother, Maria.

Castillo was a SuperPrep All-America selection as a defensive tackle at Garfield (N.J.) High School, where he added team MVP honors after recording 89 tackles with eight sacks and five forced fumbles as a senior. He also excelled in wrestling and was listed as the state's top heavyweight. He is a very intelligent athlete who garnered academic honors throughout his prep and collegiate career.

Castillo, a three-time Academic all-district choice, was nominated for National Football Foundation scholar-athlete accolades. He was also rated the No. 3 defensive line prospect in New Jersey by the McCarthy Report. The team captain finished his prep career with 159 tackles and 18 sacks as he earned eight letters (three--football, three--track, two--wrestling). He was also the state's top-ranked heavyweight wrestler, member of the Math Honor Society, National Honor Society and the Honor Roll.

Castillo played in five games as a freshman for Northwestern in 2001, but was hampered most of the year by a right leg injury. He finished the year with 22 tackles (13 solos) and four stops for losses. His leg continued to bother him throughout the 2002 preseason, but he did manage to play in 12 games that year. He totaled a career-high 84 tackles (31 solos) as a sophomore, but did not have any sacks or pressures and managed only an assisted stop behind the line of scrimmage.

In 2003, the Academic All-Big Ten Conference choice produced 70 tackles (38 solos) with 2 sacks, 6 stops for losses and six pressures from the left tackle position. He shifted to right tackle in 2004, registering 75 tackles (51 solos) with a pair of sacks, 8 stops behind the line of scrimmage and five pressures, despite playing most of the year with a left elbow strain that he suffered on the second play of the season.

He closed out his career with Academic All-American honors from ESPN, All-America first-team accolades from Pro Football Weekly and was a second-team All-Big Ten Conference pick on the field. In 42 games for the Wildcats, he produced 251 tackles (133 solos) with 4 sacks for minus-19 yards, 19 stops for losses of 51 yards and 11 quarterback pressures. He also deflected five passes, blocked a kick, caused a fumble and recovered another.


ANALYSIS
Castillo has an ideal frame and exceptional quickness for a nose guard prospect. Despite his impressive frame, he is more of a finesse-type of player who has the functional strength, but needs to get more physical on the field. He has a frame that can carry at least another 20 pounds of bulk. Because of his bull-rush skills and ability to plug the rush lanes, he could also perform capably in a two-gap system, thanks to his lower body strength.

He does a good job of pursuing the play, as he is quick to read and react. He plays at a good pad level, most of the time and relies on his quickness to gain penetration. He shows explosiveness in his initial step and the change-of-direction agility to work his way down the line. He has a solid base to anchor and plug the running lanes. Castillo shows good hand placement and does a good job of pursuing the short-area plays, but lacks the timed speed to run long distances.

As a run defender, Castillo is quick to gain position on the blocker, using his arm-under action to get an edge on the outside of an offensive lineman. When he uses his hands with force, he is able to jab and jolt to separate. When he gets too high in his stance or lines up with a blocker on his head, he struggles to disengage. He has the leg drive and short-area burst to collapse the pocket and is quick to locate the ball. He also shows good field smarts and discipline, rarely over-pursuing the plays.

He plays with good mental alertness and has a knack for finding the ball in the short area. Castillo also shows a good feel for pressure. In the open field, he extends his arms properly to wrap and secure as a tackler, but with a lack of foot speed, is better served working inside the box. Castillo is able to split double teams when he hunkers down to get a good anchor. He has the burst to close on the quarterback and never takes a play off. He is a marginal pass rusher who lacks many moves and is better off performing as a bull rusher. Even when he utilizes his short-area burst to get into the backfield, he does not have the agility to close in on the quarterback with any effectiveness.

Castillo just needs to get more physical in his play. He does not always utilize his power and long arms to stack and shed. He is a marginal pass rusher who is better at flushing the quarterback out of the pocket than tackling the passer. He relies too much on his speed to break free of the offensive linemen and will lose a few battles once he lets the blocker lock on.

It is not as if he is incapable of playing more physically (see 2004 Ohio State game). Based on his size, determination, athletic ability and instincts, this is a player that is well worth an early look on draft day. If he can improve his power game, he will be a big contributor in the pros, but needs to play in a disciplined system, as he does not have the top-end speed to freelance.


INJURY REPORT
2001 -- Only played in five games due to a right leg injury.

2002 -- Missed a portion of preseason drills and was limited early in the year as he continued to recover from 2001 leg woes Missed part of the Navy game with a knee sprain.

2004 -- Suffered a severe left elbow sprain on the second play of the season vs. Texas Christian (Sept. 2), but played the entire year with that injury, undergoing surgery to clean out debris after the season Suffered broken ribs in the first quarter vs. Hawaii (Nov. 27), but returned briefly in the second quarter.

Note: Suffers from asthma.


AGILITY
4.92 in the 40-yard dash 425-pound bench press 600-pound squat 355-pound hang clean 31-inch vertical jump 32 7/8-inch arm length 9-inch hands Right-handed Wears contacts.


HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Garfield (N.J.) High School, playing football for coach Steve Mucha PrepStar Super 30 All-Eastern Region, SuperPrep All-America, Tom Lemming all-region, rated the No. 3 defensive line prospect in New Jersey by the McCarthy Report, Newark Star Ledger and Associated Press all-state, first-team all-county his junior and senior years and first team all-league his sophomore, junior and senior years Third-team all-state as a junior Team MVP and captain Recorded 89 tackles, eight sacks, five forced fumbles his senior year Recorded 159 tackles and 18 sacks in his high school career Lettered eight times as a prep (three--football, three--track, two--wrestling) State's top-ranked heavyweight wrestler Member of the Math Honor Society, National Honor Society and the Honor Roll.


PERSONAL
Economics major with a minor in Business Institutions Son of Maria Castillo Born Luis Alberto Castillo on Aug. 4, 1983 Resides in Garfield, N.J.

Coogs
04-22-2005, 02:03 PM
Tuck...

Prospect Profiles


Justin Tuck
Position: Defensive End
College: Notre Dame
Height: 6-4
Weight: 256
Hometown: Kellyton, Ala.

Analysis | Injury Report | Agility | High School | Personal


OVERVIEW
Justin Tuck is an extremely quick and agile player who possesses very good strength for a player of his size. He was a relatively unknown prospect coming out of high school and spent his freshman season as a redshirt. But he established himself as the premier pass rusher in the history of Notre Dame football over the last two years.

Tuck was the Alabama Class 4A Player of the Year as a senior at Central Coosa County (Kellyton, Ala.) High. He lettered as a linebacker and tight end, recording 492 tackles with 37 sacks, 26 forced fumbles, 17 fumble recoveries and 115 catches for 2,106 yards and 17 touchdowns during his career. He was named the Alabama Class 4A Player of the Year as a senior in 2000. Tuck helped his team to a 10-2 record in 2000 (after 0-10 mark his freshman season) with 167 tackles, nine sacks, eight fumble recoveries, seven caused fumbles and two interceptions at middle linebacker. He also caught 19 passes at tight end for 324 yards and four touchdowns. The two-time team captain captured all-state honors as a senior and was selected for the Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Game.

Tuck averaged 17.6 points and 11.3 rebounds as a senior in basketball on a state title team that finished 23-6. The two-time captain in basketball was twice named MVP of the Alabama 4A state championship basketball team. He also won three letters in baseball as a first baseman and leftfielder.

The cousin of Baltimore Ravens defensive end Adalius Thomas, Tuck spent his 2001 season redshirting as a 235-pound outside linebacker. In 2002, He moved to defensive end, appearing in every game and earning one start. He finished that campaign with 44 tackles, five sacks, 10 stops for losses, a forced fumble and five pass deflections.

Tuck had a breakout year in 2003, setting the school single-season record with 13 sacks, adding 73 tackles, three forced fumbles and 19 stops behind the line of scrimmage. However, in the season finale vs. Syracuse, he tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, undergoing surgery in December. The injury would sideline him for 2004 spring drills.

In 2004, Tuck faced constant double-team coverage and did not match his lofty statistics from the previous season, as he still had some problems with his knee, which eventually prevented him from playing vs. Oregon State in the Insight.com Bowl. He concluded the season with 47 tackles, six sacks and 14 stops for losses.

Tuck holds the Notre Dame career-record with 24 sacks, topping the previous mark of 22 by Kory Minor (1995-98). For his career, he totaled 164 tackles (113 solo) with 43 stops for losses of 210 yards, four forced fumbles and seven pass deflections. His 43 stops behind the line of scrimmage broke the previous school all-time record of 42 by Anthony Weaver (1998-2001).


ANAYLSIS
Tuck has a developing frame with good muscle development, but still needs to increase his strength to combat the larger defenders at the pro level. He shows good quickness off the ball, along with above-average hand usage and lateral agility to slip blocks. He has very good agility and balance to play on his feet. Tuck uses his hands well to protect himself from cut blocks, but needs to separate and shed quicker when locked on.

He can bend his knees and play with leverage, but is not real stout to anchor at the point of attack or to take on pulling offensive guards on traps. He has very good instincts and awareness, as he is quick to squeeze vs. down blocks.

He has above average anchoring ability, but can still be driven back when run against. Tuck is more of a factor on plays away in which he's quick to redirect and chase from the backside. He also pursues downfield with good effort and speed. He has quickness coming across the blocker's face and enough strength to collapse the lane vs. inside runs. Tuck shows a good burst to the ball when working inside and the speed to chase down ball carriers. He runs well in the open, giving good effort to chase and pursue. He also takes good angles to the ball and has a good take-off on his pass rush.

On running plays, he needs to square his base better, as he will turn his shoulders and get sealed off some at the point of attack. Still, he comes off the line with good pad level and body lean. He can burst around the corner with speed, loop through the gaps with quickness or bull rush straight up with power.

He also shows a very good upfield burst and hand technique (good pop & jerk, rip, swim back inside) with the hip flip to get an edge. He can dip and bend the corner and has explosive acceleration to the quarterback when he comes free.

Tuck can also perform in a two-point stance as well as drop in coverage in some zone blitz situations. He's a solid tackler, aggressive to get to the ball and will bring his hips and unload on ball carriers. His biggest question is his ability to hold up at the point due to a frame that looks lean in the lower body. Still, he never gives up in pursuit, makes every effort to close rush lanes and has the sudden burst to make opposite field tackles. He has good burst to close and the body control to capture ball carriers in space.

He makes some very big hits on the move and while he might not have the lower-body strength to hold his ground vs. the larger blockers, he is superb in working on stunts and getting through the gaps. His speed allows him to reduce the pocket and he has shown the acceleration needed to come off the edge and get to the quarterback. He has good burst in his pass rush and can generate consistent pressure on the pocket. He has the burst and acceleration needed to work in space and changes direction as if he was a 225-pounder.

The main thing Tuck portrays on film is his aggressiveness and ability to play at a high intensity level. In a scheme that will allow him to stunt and play uncontested off the edge, some team could find a difference maker here. One issue that will have to be dealt with is his right knee, as the 2003 injury continued to affect his play in 2004 and finally forced him to sit out the Insight.com Bowl. Look for someone to take him in the first round, if they are confident that he will overcome his knee problem.


INJURY REPORT
2003: Saw limited action vs. Michigan State due to a shoulder contusion Suffered a torn ACL in his right knee during the season finale vs. Syracuse Underwent reconstructive surgery in December.

2004: Missed spring drills with an ankle sprain and to continue recovering from right knee surgery Did not play in the Insight.com Bowl due to swelling in his right knee.


AGILITY
4.56 in the 40-yard dash (wind-aided) 4.62 in the 40-yard dash 380-pound bench press 560-pound squat 336-pound power clean 34-inch vertical jump 33-inch arm length 9 5/8-inch hands.


HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Central Coosa County (Kellyton, Ala.) High Named the Alabama Class 4A Player of the Year as a senior in 2000 Helped his team to a 10-2 record in 2000 (after 0-10 mark his freshman season) with 167 tackles, nine sacks, eight fumble recoveries, seven caused fumbles and two interceptions at middle linebacker Also caught 19 passes at tight end for 324 yards and four touchdowns His career totals included 492 tackles, 37 sacks, 26 caused fumbles, 17 fumble receivers, 115 receptions for 2,106 yards and 17 touchdowns First-team Alabama All-State at tight end in 1999 Captain as both a junior and senior Earned Alabama All-State honors as a senior Selected for the Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Game Averaged 17.6 points and 11.3 rebounds as a senior in basketball on a state title team that finished 23-6 Four-year letterman and two-time captain in basketball Two-time MVP of the Alabama 4A state championship basketball team with a 28-2 record as a junior Won three letters in baseball as a first baseman and leftfielder.


PERSONAL
Will graduate in May 2005 with a degree in Management Enrolled in the Mendoza College of Business Tuck's cousin, Adalius Thomas, played football at Southern Mississippi and is now a defensive end with the Baltimore Ravens Sister, Tiffany, played basketball at Lincoln University Born Justin Lee Tuck on March 29, 1983 Resides in Kellyton, Ala.

Coogs
04-22-2005, 02:04 PM
and Roth...


Prospect Profiles


Matthew "Roth" Roth
Position: Defensive End
College: Iowa
Height: 6-3
Weight: 272
Hometown: Villa Park, Ill.

Analysis | Injury Report | Agility | High School | Personal


OVERVIEW
Roth is regarded as one of the premier pass rushers in the collegiate ranks and one of the toughest players in the country. He is a blue-chip prospect with a blue-collar work ethic. Roth is a colorful character who plays the game as if he is on a "search and destroy" mission. He is the source of a campus urban legend, as many Hawkeyes talk of the time Roth challenged and cleared out an entire bar in a fight.

Even in practices, the coaches have to pray he stays under control. They will generally blow the whistle early on plays, so Roth does not hurt any of the offensive players. There are times when he plays with such intensity in practices that the coaches must sit him down, even for walk-throughs.

Roth was a standout linebacker and fullback at Willowbrook (Ill.) High. He was a consensus all-state pick and named Illinois High School Athlete of the Year by the Chicago Tribune as a senior, totaling 161 tackles with four sacks, 23 stops for losses, 10 forced fumbles and a state-record 12 blocked kicks. He also scored four times while gaining 307 yards rushing.

Roth began his Iowa career as a middle linebacker, recording 19 tackles (12 solo) in 12 games as a reserve in 2001. He shifted to the defensive line in 2002, as the coaches felt he played with too much reckless abandon to be effective as a linebacker. Roth responded to the move by recording 48 tackles (22 solo) with 10 sacks, 11 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 11 quarterback pressures, despite starting only one game. Roth took over left end duties in 2003, collecting 51 tackles (32 solo) with 12 sacks, 16 stops for losses and four forced fumbles. Only Leroy Smith (18 in 1991) had more sacks in a season for the Hawkeyes.

With an additional 10 pounds of muscle on his frame in 2004, Roth put together a banner senior season, earning All-America honors. He ranked fourth in the Big Ten Conference with eight sacks and registered 15 stops for losses (sixth in the Big Ten), eight pressures and 49 tackles (34 solo) while leading the conference with three forced fumbles.

In 49 games, he started 25 times, recording 167 tackles (100 solo) with 23 quarterback pressures, 30 sacks for minus-192 yards, 43 stops for losses of 224 yards, eight forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and a pass deflection. His 30 career sacks rank third in school history, topped only by Mike Wells (33, 1990-93) and Jared DeVries (42, 1995-98). Only Wells (54) and DeVries (78) registered more tackles behind the line of scrimmage in a career for the Hawkeyes.


ANALYSIS
Roth is a well-built athlete with a powerful upper body, long arms, broad shoulders, quick feet, above-average explosion off the snap, narrow hips, and thick thighs and calves. His quickness allows him to be very effective on stunts, playing with his hand down wide to the open side to get after the quarterback instantly coming out of his stance. He does an excellent job of generating a strong hand punch, showing good extension to keep blockers off his body to shed.

Roth plays with superb field awareness and has very good agility for his position, making plays in pursuit. He demonstrates an explosive initial burst and can flash upfield, displaying fine foot agility when dropping off in pass coverage. Roth comes off his stance ready to deliver forceful inside counter moves on his upfield rush and has excellent recovery speed in pursuit. While he might be a little stiff in his hips and can sometimes come off the snap a little high in his stance, he uses his power to gain leverage and is very combative with his arms (rip and swim moves) to prevent blockers from containing him.

Roth has the short-area agility to penetrate the line, collapse the pocket and pressure the quarterback, doing a very nice job of keeping his feet as he works well transferring his weight. He has developed into a disruptive pass rusher who gains leverage with his strong straight-ahead charge off the snap. Roth stays in control and has a sharp and sudden burst coming off the edge as a pass rusher. He also uses his short-area speed to collapse the pocket and bring down the quarterback in the backfield.

His lateral and upfield quickness allow him to consistently get past the offensive tackle when attempting to penetrate. Roth generates explosion as a pass rusher and is very fluid delivering secondary moves after his initial thrust into the pile. He might need to add bulk to play at the next level, but his upper-body strength is evident by the way he can rip, stalk and drag blockers down with his hands.

Roth uses an explosive first step to gain advantage, but when he gets high in his stance (mostly when redirecting inside), he struggles to disengage, but his lateral agility lets him slip off blocks. He has very good leg drive and lower-body strength to gain leverage and prevent the opponent from moving him out when coming off the edge. Roth is best when playing on the move, as he has an uncanny knack for sifting out the play, spotting the ball and then squeezing through tight spaces to zero in on the ball carrier or passer.

His hands are a great asset, as he is very effective delivering good spin and swim moves to penetrate the backfield, control blockers and keep separation. He takes dead aim on the quarterback and has the explosive burst to get to his man. Roth is a high-energy type who does a good job of clearing his feet when chasing.


INJURY REPORT
2004 -- Suffered a left arm contusion on the first play of the Capital One Bowl matchup vs. Louisiana State. When the arm started to swell, the coaches urged him to leave the field to get it examined, Roth merely said, "I'm not coming out for this."


AGILITY
4.77 in the 40-yard dash 410-pound bench press 675-pound squat 325-pound power clean 33-inch vertical jump 30 7/8-inch arm length 10-inch hands Right-handed.


HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Willowbrook (Villa Park, Ill.) High, playing four seasons for coach Chuck Tassio Consensus All-America selection as a senior, competing as a linebacker and fullback Named Illinois High School Athlete of the Year by the Chicago Tribune Two-time all-conference pick, adding all-state and league Defensive Player of the Year honors as a senior Served as team captain while earning MVP accolades as a senior Recorded 161 tackles with four sacks, 23 stops for losses, 10 forced fumbles and a state-record 12 blocked kicks as a senior Collected 110 tackles with 11 sacks and 29 stops behind the line of scrimmage during his junior campaign Rushed for 307 yards and four touchdowns as a senior Lettered four times in wrestling, earning the state title as a senior with a perfect 31-0 record Won school Academic Merit honors.


PERSONAL
Open major Son of Kelley and Tom Roth Born Oct. 14, 1982 Resides in Villa Park, Ill.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 02:06 PM
Every hour that goes by, I see us drafting a WR at #15.

SCTrojan
04-22-2005, 02:09 PM
I'm as big a Mike Williams fan as Mel Kiper, but I say we have too much still to do on the defense to take an offensive player.

Of course, it all depends on who is available at the time. I'm still going with my prediction that DJ will be available at 15. Pick him.

Logical
04-22-2005, 02:13 PM
If everyone (defensively...I still don't think they can afford to go offense in the first round, though if Williamson is still there I'd at least be on the fence) they're interested in is gone, I'd be happy (ecstatic, probably) to do the trade down with Philly (31, 35) or, to a lesser extent, hope that Aaron Rodgers has fallen far enough to still be around and get the Packers 24 and 58.31 and 35 would be ok, I am not the slightest bit interested in 24 and 58. I have no faith at all in the whiz kids picking anyone decent at 58

BigChiefFan
04-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I hope DJ slides. Keep ****ing doubting Derrick Johnson.

beer bacon
04-22-2005, 02:15 PM
More defense. Stay put at 15 and take Davis, Rogers, or Pollack, or trade down and get an OLB - Burnett or Blackstock and a DE/CB - Roth, Jackson, Miller, Green, Webster, etc..

I really don't want an offensive player. It wouldn't make much sense since DV always says that WR is one of the most difficult positions to learn on our offense since there are so many plays.

Mr. Laz
04-22-2005, 02:17 PM
Every hour that goes by, I see us drafting a WR at #15.
yep... part of the reason we did the deal for Surtain is because the pressure from Vermeil about wanting to take a WR in RD 1.

the only way we have an option to take a receiver in the 1st round is by trading for surtain.


clayton is their first choice IMO

BigChiefFan
04-22-2005, 02:18 PM
yep... part of the reason we did the deal for Surtain is because the pressure from Vermeil about wanting to take a WR in RD 1.

the only way we have an option to take a receiver in the 1st round is by trading for surtain.


clayton is their first choice IMO
I prefer DEFENSE, but Vermeil has an eye for talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Logical
04-22-2005, 02:19 PM
yep... part of the reason we did the deal for Surtain is because the pressure from Vermeil about wanting to take a WR in RD 1.

the only way we have an option to take a receiver in the 1st round is by trading for surtain.


clayton is their first choice IMO

I am now definitely OK with this, then pick up one of the many average level OLBs still available in free agency.

Frankie
04-22-2005, 02:22 PM
I hope DJ slides. Keep ****ing doubting Derrick Johnson.
If he gets past the Lions, he will slide. Though you can chalk me up as a DJ doubter.

keg in kc
04-22-2005, 02:23 PM
As much as I hope someone like Rogers or Williamsom slides, I'm assuming that with both corner and WR the top 3 choices will be gone by 15, so if that's what we're looking to draft, I hope to christ we trade down and recoup some value rather than reach for a late first/early second calibre guy.

yoswif
04-22-2005, 02:58 PM
With Surtain on board, I think the the pick will be a pass rusher at #15. If you spend $50 million on a CB, it just makes sense to get a good pass rusher if one is available. I'd be happy with Merriman, Pollack, Ware, or Spears (at 285 lbs) at 15. NFL.com's workout report says CP and DV attended Pro Day's at Maryland and LSU. Ware had a personal visit. Pollack has several admirers in the organization.

Good nickle and dime CBs like Holly, Cincinnati or Paymah, Washington St., should be available second day. This is a very good draft to spend 3 second day picks on CBs. And the Chiefs have a lot of second day picks. Pick up 3 second day DE to LB types like Huckeba, Arkansas, and Wake, Penn St. to fill special teams and possibly become the next Beisel.

teedubya
04-22-2005, 03:06 PM
if carlos rogers,antrel rolle or derrick johnson are there at 15 we grab them.

if not we try and trade down


i bet the chiefs have a serious eye on WR Mark Clayton from Oklahoma

that is my gut feel as well.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 03:15 PM
If I had to put money on a pick right now....I'd say OLB Thomas Davis, or WR Mark Clayton.

If we stay at 15, I think there's a good chance it would be one of those two....unless DJ, Rolle, or Rogers drops into our lap. :hmmm:

Thig Lyfe
04-22-2005, 03:17 PM
How does a guy like Williams not fit the scheme, but guys like Holt and Bruce do?

Well, for one Holt and Bruce have speed, which Williams does not.

HolmeZz
04-22-2005, 03:28 PM
What is wrong with Pollack? (other than his size)

Don't like his size and he's got short arms. He'll get driven back at the next level, IMO. Besides that, I really don't want to address the DLine with our first pick anyway. We've got bigger problems.

the Talking Can
04-22-2005, 03:30 PM
here's Gosselin's take on Clayton, he has ranked #18 in the top 100:

18. Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma


Mark Clayton

The NFL likes big receivers, and there were plenty to be had in the 2004 draft: Roy Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton. Lee Evans was the shrimp at 5-10, so he slid, despite the fact he was one of the fastest receivers (4.37) and biggest producers on the board (19.8-yard career average at Wisconsin). Buffalo took him with the 13th overall pick, and he wound up on the NFL all-rookie team with nine touchdowns and a 17.6-yard average. Mark Clayton is the little guy (5-10) who will slide in the first round of this draft despite his speed (4.40) and college productivity (220 catches and 31 TDs at Oklahoma). The tall guys - Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson and Mike Williams - all could go before him, but don't be surprised if Clayton has the best rookie year of them all.


The more I think about it the more I think DV is jonesing for a WR.

beer bacon
04-22-2005, 03:33 PM
DV is always wanting a WR. Carl needs to fulfill his duties as GM and not allow DV to draft a WR in round 1. We need more defense.

DTLB58
04-22-2005, 03:46 PM
DV is always wanting a WR. Carl needs to fulfill his duties as GM and not allow DV to draft a WR in round 1. We need more defense.

Amen! :clap: MORE DEFENSE PLEASE CARL!

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 03:58 PM
Amen! :clap: MORE DEFENSE PLEASE CARL!

I can see them taking Clayton, then using their next two picks on OLB and CB....Michael Boley, Jordan Beck, or Matt McCoy might last to the 99th pick too....along with several CBs who will likely still be there at 116. :hmmm:

tk13
04-22-2005, 03:59 PM
You know, I have no idea what we're going to do. I really don't. I haven't felt this clueless about a draft in a while. I don't know, I just don't feel like we're gonna go WR. We've only got 2 first day picks tomorrow. I can see us taking a DE, LB, CB, S, or WR... I still really want a LB.

htismaqe
04-22-2005, 04:10 PM
Don't like his size and he's got short arms. He'll get driven back at the next level, IMO. Besides that, I really don't want to address the DLine with our first pick anyway. We've got bigger problems.

His short arms are 1" shorter than Erasmus James, who is a full 4" taller.

The "short arms" argument is 100% unadulterated bullshit.

Mr. Laz
04-22-2005, 04:18 PM
His short arms are 1" shorter than Erasmus James, who is a full 4" taller.

The "short arms" argument is 100% unadulterated bullshit.
i think Erasmus james musta humped parker's momma or something


ROFL ROFL

shaneo69
04-22-2005, 04:18 PM
I think we're going to trade down to get an extra pick.

CosmicPal
04-22-2005, 04:21 PM
His short arms are 1" shorter than Erasmus James, who is a full 4" taller.

The "short arms" argument is 100% unadulterated bullshit.

Well, if you're standing in a bookstore with either Pollack or James, I think you'd rather have James with you 'cause he'd be more likely to get the book off the top shelf for you. So, it's only 98.9% unadulterated bullshit. :D

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 04:24 PM
I think we're going to trade down to get an extra pick.


that's probably right, trade out of the quality starter range where Carl can be a tight ass.

htismaqe
04-22-2005, 04:29 PM
i think Erasmus james musta humped parker's momma or something


ROFL ROFL

Nah, I just watch a TON of Big 10 football.

Comparing Erasmus James to Pollack is like comparing Kevin Carter to Reggie White.

tk13
04-22-2005, 04:31 PM
that's probably right, trade out of the quality starter range where Carl can be a tight ass.
I don't know, the more I think about it, the more I think we almost have to. We've got 2 first-day picks now, 15 and 99. Unless somebody like DJ or Rogers falls to us it'd be nice to pick up more than two players.

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 04:43 PM
I don't know, the more I think about it, the more I think we almost have to. We've got 2 first-day picks now, 15 and 99. Unless somebody like DJ or Rogers falls to us it'd be nice to pick up more than two players.


since KC traded their second I'm going with the BAA, and hoping either DJ or Merriman is available should snag him. I'm not into trading down, because Carl doesn't have an eye for talent like Jimmy Johnson or New England has

Deberg_1990
04-22-2005, 04:45 PM
I just don't feel like we're gonna go WR.

If Mike Williams is still there at # 15, you have to take that guy. There is no way you can pass up an IMMEDIATE IMPACT player like that.

yoswif
04-22-2005, 05:04 PM
If Pollack is downgraded for short arms why doesn't Ware get points for long arms? Both bench press well over 400 lbs, both have explosive first steps, and both hit QBs a lot. Who cares about a couple inches here or a couple lbs there.

htismaqe
04-22-2005, 05:04 PM
If Mike Williams is still there at # 15, you have to take that guy. There is no way you can pass up an IMMEDIATE IMPACT player like that.

Mike Williams is vastly overrated, which is precisely why the Vikings don't want him and why he will likely be there at 15.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 09:07 PM
yep... part of the reason we did the deal for Surtain is because the pressure from Vermeil about wanting to take a WR in RD 1.

the only way we have an option to take a receiver in the 1st round is by trading for surtain.


clayton is their first choice IMO

I hope it's Williamson. That dude has got great hands, and has jets for legs. Hopefully he falls to #15 if we do end up eyeing WR. If he does, it would be hard not to take that type of talent. He's 6'1, 208. 4.32 speed. Wow! I would love to see a live view of the war room if he's available at #15. DV would be freakin' begging and pleading.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't know how long he'll last, he's rated #3 behind Edwards and Mike Williams.

tk13
04-22-2005, 09:17 PM
I hope it's Williamson. That dude has got great hands, and has jets for legs. Hopefully he falls to #15 if we do end up eyeing WR. If he does, it would be hard not to take that type of talent. He's 6'1, 208. 4.32 speed. Wow! I would love to see a live view of the war room if he's available at #15. DV would be freakin' begging and pleading.
The one thing it seemed like everybody on the ESPN draft special the other night agreed on, was Williamson's speed is unreal... and not just in terms of 40 time, he was faster than everybody on the football field too. He could get past the secondary, and most importantly he didn't really slow down once he caught the ball, his separation speed made him tough to catch. Personally I never saw the guy play, but everybody I've seen talk about Williamson seemed to agree on that.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 09:23 PM
If Mike Williams is still there at # 15, you have to take that guy. There is no way you can pass up an IMMEDIATE IMPACT player like that.

I'm officially on the "no" to Mike Williams bandwagon....I'd rather try Matt Jones LATER in the round. :hmmm:

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 09:24 PM
The one thing it seemed like everybody on the ESPN draft special the other night agreed on, was Williamson's speed is unreal... and not just in terms of 40 time, he was faster than everybody on the football field too. He could get past the secondary, and most importantly he didn't really slow down once he caught the ball, his separation speed made him tough to catch. Personally I never saw the guy play, but everybody I've seen talk about Williamson seemed to agree on that.

I hope he's there at #15, but I don't see the Chargers passing on him at #12. Who are the Chargers even looking at?

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 09:25 PM
Mike Williams is vastly overrated, which is precisely why the Vikings don't want him and why he will likely be there at 15.

Yeah, I live in Viking country....if Williams is there at 7, word here is they won't take him if they can't trade out of the position.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 09:25 PM
The Texans GM Casserly said that there is no one that can cover him. Called him the best player in the draft (Troy Williamson).

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 09:29 PM
The Texans GM Casserly said that there is no one that can cover him. Called him the best player in the draft.

They are also the same team that gave the Faders 3 high picks for a CB who is a headcase.... :hmmm:

tk13
04-22-2005, 09:31 PM
I hope he's there at #15, but I don't see the Chargers passing on him at #12. Who are the Chargers even looking at?
I'm not sure really, it seems like the mocks I've read have them either taking one of the WR's, a big 3-4 DE like Marcus Spears, or one of the hybrid DE/LB's...

Chiefs Pantalones
04-22-2005, 09:38 PM
I'm not sure really, it seems like the mocks I've read have them either taking one of the WR's, a big 3-4 DE like Marcus Spears, or one of the hybrid DE/LB's...

Yeah, I also see that Kiper's latest mock has the Vikings picking Williamson at #7. Says he is their preference. It's either him or Williams. Although I saw on ESPN the other day that the Vikings said they are satisfied with what they have at WR, but ESPN thought it was BS on the Vikings part, so no one will trade up ahead of them.

No matter who we get, I really hope he ends up being a force this year and years down the road. No more players almost on the verge, I want a playmaker.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2005, 10:04 PM
... a big 3-4 DE like Marcus Spears, or one of the hybrid DE/LB's...

This IS Marty Schottenheimer we are talking about....tk13 is right.... :hmmm:

Chief Chief
04-22-2005, 11:43 PM
I hope we look at these positions with the following priority:

1. Wide receiver
2. Outside Linebacker
3. Offensive Lineman
4. Punter
5. Quarterback
6. Defensive End

1. Wide Receiver: Our offense's only true long threat (if you can call it that) is a screen pass to Priest. We need a quality WR with the ability to stretch the field, the speed to create separation, the skills to get valuable yards-after-catch, and pick up the necessary yardage when we get into long yardage situations. I think the Chiefs will use at least 2 of their 10 picks on WRs.

2. Outside Linebacker: With Fujita being questionable about his return this season and Mazslowski coming back from knee surgery, we need more depth at linebacker. We need a linebacker who's exceptional at all the skills (pass rushing, tackling, covering the pass, etc.).

3. Offensive Lineman: Will Mr. Durability retire? Will Shields is an unknown right now, but even if he plays this year, our offensive line needs a resurgence of youth to learn from and spell the old-timers this season and be experienced and ready to replace them in future years.

4. Punter: We need to find another Jerrell Wilson-type who can punt for distance and accuracy.

5. Quarterback: How much longer can we go with Green and the Maytag Repairman? The time is ripe to grab a QB in the middle rounds because he only needs to have the potential to learn the offense and sharpen his skills so we have a legitimate QB to start in a year or two.

6. Defensive End: We need to improve this area, but not as much as the previously-listed 5 positions.

One of the advantages of acquiring Surtain is that we won't need to trade up to ensure we get one of the top-rated defensive players worthy of a top 10 draft pick. This also means we don't necessarily have to choose a defensive player, resulting in more flexibility in the player/position we select. I'm certain (no pun intended) we'll get one of the top 3 rated players on either defense or offense (of those available) when it's time to make our selection.

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2005, 11:52 PM
Yeah, I also see that Kiper's latest mock has the Vikings picking Williamson at #7. Says he is their preference. It's either him or Williams. Although I saw on ESPN the other day that the Vikings said they are satisfied with what they have at WR, but ESPN thought it was BS on the Vikings part, so no one will trade up ahead of them.


they'll take Williamson or trade up for Edwards both were present when it came to second callback interviews, but Mike Williams wasn't.

ChiefsCountry
04-22-2005, 11:54 PM
I'm going to say trade down if Rogers, Johnson, or Rolle isn't there. Try to get the Rams to swap picks and then take Mark Clayton.

Wallcrawler
04-23-2005, 03:00 AM
Having Surtain onboard certainly does give the Chiefs much more flexibility now with their first pick.

Id like to see it put toward the defense, but you cant argue that the wideouts for this offense are less than spectacular, and we could really use one of those young, fast wideouts who can come in and be a homerun threat from any spot on the field.


Right now, Im much more comfortable with the defense situation right now. 4 players capable of starting being added to the team before the draft was really some great work by Carl Peterson. Its a shame he doesnt try to improve like this every year.


Linebacker now seems to be the most pressing need, and there are linebackers still available in free agency that could contribute. The Chiefs could probably pick up a Warrick Holdman, or a Roman Phifer pretty easily to come in and play to help out until Barber makes his return. Im hopeful that Keyaron Fox will get a chance to get out on the field this year, and show what he can do.

So, if the Chiefs did come across a wideout worthy of the 15th pick, they could realisticly pull it off without hurting the upgrading of the defense too badly. The defense has taken some big strides during this offseason.

As I stated, Id really like to see the 15th pick used on defense to keep this roll of defensive additions going, but right now, all that matters is that the Chiefs get an impact player who can help the team win games now. If that happens to be an offensive player, so be it. There are still plenty of options left after the draft to try to get another linebacker and defensive end.

Mr. Kotter
04-23-2005, 09:11 AM
I'm going to say trade down if Rogers, Johnson, or Rolle isn't there. Try to get the Rams to swap picks and then take Mark Clayton.

I'm not holding my breath, but THAT would be sweeeeet. :clap: